Training Advances and Anabolics

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Well, I know that you're getting at the future bewares that we see in the movies

(like Gattaca)

but I don't see anything wrong with trying to create the perfectly developed

human being.

Wouldn't you like to see a 100 lb woman squat 2000 lbs? Or a 300 lb man that can

jump

over a 3 story building?

I'm of the opinion that the " everyone's a winner " mentality of North America

doesn't apply to

elite athletics. At that level, you either got it or you don't - it doesn't

matter if you did your best.

Dmitry Voronov

Ontario, Canada

--------------

From: Carruthersjam@...

To Dmitry Voronov:

Yes, I agree what your saying, to a certain extent.

But what happens if we legalise steroids - yes like you said legalisation -

this will probably all but eliminate the deaths from infectious injections

and dirty products, plus premature deaths from improper usage.

But then if we legalise steroids athletes will try and use other methods of

trying to jump, higher, run faster etc. Gene therapy? Cyborg? Cloning? etc

you name it, even more harmful drugs. and many others - just because you put

something on prescription doesn't solve all problems! e.g smoking / alcohol

etc.

A know doubt difficult situation I don't have any answers of what really to

do and nobody really does. There will always be some way of cheating - is it

better to make a stand now or later? Most athletes may agree we'll be better

off without them so what if we had something like 'unilateral disarmament'

where everyone stops taking them - but there will be always one what keeps it

??

Carruthers

Wakefield

UK

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> 1. Is it moral - is man trying to play God.

I think experience has shown that it's best if science has a

line-of-sight restraining order on religion. It just ruins things

with its stupid beliefs based on blind faith (I'm not talking about

" holy " things, but things like religion telling people if you pay money,

you get into heaven or lightning and thunder are the wrath of God, or

that God created the Earth as the center of the universe). For all we

know, the rest of it is nonsense too. I believe in God but I don't think

that has anything to do with trying to evolve. Maybe the next

evolutionary step is to make babies using perfect genes. I PERSONALLY

don't agree with that, but if someone asks me to do research on how to

make a clone, I'll do it. To disregard genetic manipulation is stupid.

> 2. There will no doubt be a backlash of numerous groups of people.

Aren't there always? Who cares.

> 3. There is poverty, death, famines you name it - should we be

> dealing with those problems first.

There are always those things too. People as a whole don't really care

about it (those whose opinions matter anyway - ie the ones who aren't

starving and dying). I know a lot of people are getting angry with me

reading this but think of it rationally - you might care about it

emotionally but are you really going to do anything? I mean, all these

charities you hear about existed long before the lottery or whatever.

But it makes you feel good to buy the ticket knowing it's for a good

cause, but you wouldn't normally give them the money. So the way to cure

these problems is to feed off of something people DO care about. In the

case of the topic of this thread, you can fund and advance research for

deadly diseases through athletics. If you find a way to make someone

super strong, then perhaps the same technology could be used to aid

someone terminally ill. Just a thought.

> 4. What is being human etc

People spend their whole lives trying to figure this out. The only lucky

ones that succeed in anyway figure out what it means to be human for

THEM. I say that people should stop wasting their time trying to answer

the impossible. I like what I heard this one comic say: " God must have

one sick sense of humor - sticking a finite being into an infinite world. "

But as far as being scared of what playing with genetics has in store,

my feeling is that it's simply the human nature of being afraid of

change. A few centuries ago, people felt the exact same way about the

earth being round as we feel about cloning (or any genetic manipulation

for that matter). Well, apparently they felt even more strongly about it

because they cut the dude's tongue off... The natural reaction to that

is to say that people were stupid and ignorant. Well, they're the same

people, so you could as easily say that we're still stupid and ignorant -

just not as much. Every once in a while something so revolutionary comes

around that is just completely outside the box of norm. The reason these

things come is that there are people ( " scientists " ) who are capable of

thinking without limits. Not just outside the box but outside the whole

geometry set. I hope I can become one of those people some day. I'm

still learning.

Thanks for reading,

Dmitry Voronov

Ontario, Canada

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

>

> Well, I know that you're getting at the future bewares that we see

in the movies (like Gattaca)

> but I don't see anything wrong with trying to create the perfectly

developed human being.

> Wouldn't you like to see a 100 lb woman squat 2000 lbs? Or a 300 lb

man that can jump

> over a 3 story building?

>

> I'm of the opinion that the " everyone's a winner " mentality of

North America doesn't apply to

> elite athletics. At that level, you either got it or you don't - it

doesn't matter if you did your best.

**** I have been following this topic of posts like everyone else but

wasn't to sure how to add my opinion as someone who avoids drug use

and would not recommend it to others. Last night whilst watching TV

it became clear to me what sport and performance means. An add for

the Olympics came on and showed an Alpine skier having a huge stack

and the voice over saying something like " if you fall then get back

up and try again " , then flashed up one the screen " two days later

?????? (the alpine skier's name) won two gold medals. And finally

the ad finished with the Olympic rings and " celebrate humanity " .

This gave me a warm feeling inside. I then thought if the ad had

said " two days later and thanks to the help of anabolic steroids

?????? won two gold medals. Celebrate drug research and usage, " and

it became much clearer to me. Sure you may be able to perform better

if you " roid up " but what does perform better mean.

Myself, I think I'll go and watch the " clean " athletes performing

human efforts rather than the others performing super-human efforts

and keep celebrating humanity.

Thanks,

Ben Haines

Townsville, Australia

> Dmitry Voronov

> Ontario, Canada

>

> --------------

>

>

> From: Carruthersjam@a...

>

> To Dmitry Voronov:

>

> Yes, I agree what your saying, to a certain extent.

>

> But what happens if we legalise steroids - yes like you said

legalisation -

> this will probably all but eliminate the deaths from infectious

injections

> and dirty products, plus premature deaths from improper usage.

>

> But then if we legalise steroids athletes will try and use other

methods of

> trying to jump, higher, run faster etc. Gene therapy? Cyborg?

Cloning? etc

> you name it, even more harmful drugs. and many others - just

because you put

> something on prescription doesn't solve all problems! e.g smoking

/ alcohol

> etc.

>

> A know doubt difficult situation I don't have any answers of what

really to

> do and nobody really does. There will always be some way of

cheating - is it

> better to make a stand now or later? Most athletes may agree

we'll be better

> off without them so what if we had something like 'unilateral

disarmament'

> where everyone stops taking them - but there will be always one

what keeps it

> ??

>

> Carruthers

> Wakefield

> UK

[Guest guest]

I respect your opinion and I won't argue in any way but I do have

something to say about your example. Do you really think that " so-and-so "

never used a gram of some sort of performance enhancing drug? I guess

it's possible but nowadays, I would think that this would be considered

a dangerous if not a naive assumption.

And advertising is all about giving you a warm feeling inside. So now

that they have a slogan that says " celebrate humanity " it means that

none of the competitors will have ever used any drugs? But I personally

think that these drugs ARE part of humanity. We're not horses, dogs or

birds. God didn't give us spectacular speed and strength, teeth or

wings. He gave us very usable brains and the opposing thumb. That's

about all we have going for us. Everything else we've had to fabricate.

Wanna move faster than you can? Get a car. Wanna fly? Get a plane. Wanna

fight? Get a knife/gun. Wanna be stronger? Get a needle. I know, that

last one could be replaced by " get Supertraining 2000 and work your ass

off " but you still won't get as far. All the other things in the list

are all about going beyond what is humanly possible. Why do our bodies

have to be different.

Hey, my history is very sketchy here, so I hope someone can fill in the

blanks but wasn't it something like the late 70's when the Olympics were

held at a very high elevation (low density) and everyone expected that

the track results would be totally unspectacular and records were

broken? I think this was considered the first year of the roid Olympics.

" Celebrate humanity " ? I do agree but I think it contradicts your

definition...

Re-reading this and thinking about the thread made me realize something

about what I'm saying about myself in-between the lines. Let me just get

this straight. I do not nor do I endorse the use of steroids. If someone

says that they are about to go on a cycle, I won't say don't, but I

won't pat them on the back either. While I've made it clear that I have

no problem against the concept, it is simply too dangerous. The odds of

pumping some drywall diluted with alcohol into your veins is too high.

Also I think that using them for recreational purposes is also idiocy.

The risk is not worth the few extra looks you might get at the beach.

I've made a resolution that I will wait five years of serious and smart

training before I even think about it (to see if I have a shot at making

the record books).

For what it's worth,

Dmitry Voronov

Ontario, Canada

be4_06 wrote:

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Well, I know that you're getting at the future bewares that we see

> in the movies (like Gattaca)

> > but I don't see anything wrong with trying to create the perfectly

> developed human being.

> > Wouldn't you like to see a 100 lb woman squat 2000 lbs? Or a 300 lb

> man that can jump

> > over a 3 story building?

> >

> > I'm of the opinion that the " everyone's a winner " mentality of

> North America doesn't apply to

> > elite athletics. At that level, you either got it or you don't - it

> doesn't matter if you did your best.

>

> **** I have been following this topic of posts like everyone else but

> wasn't to sure how to add my opinion as someone who avoids drug use

> and would not recommend it to others. Last night whilst watching TV

> it became clear to me what sport and performance means. An add for

> the Olympics came on and showed an Alpine skier having a huge stack

> and the voice over saying something like " if you fall then get back

> up and try again " , then flashed up one the screen " two days later

> ?????? (the alpine skier's name) won two gold medals. And finally

> the ad finished with the Olympic rings and " celebrate humanity " .

> This gave me a warm feeling inside. I then thought if the ad had

> said " two days later and thanks to the help of anabolic steroids

> ?????? won two gold medals. Celebrate drug research and usage, " and

> it became much clearer to me. Sure you may be able to perform better

> if you " roid up " but what does perform better mean.

>

> Myself, I think I'll go and watch the " clean " athletes performing

> human efforts rather than the others performing super-human efforts

> and keep celebrating humanity.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Ben Haines

> Townsville, Australia

>

> > Dmitry Voronov

> > Ontario, Canada

> >

> > --------------

> >

> >

> > From: Carruthersjam@a...

> >

> > To Dmitry Voronov:

> >

> > Yes, I agree what your saying, to a certain extent.

> >

> > But what happens if we legalise steroids - yes like you said

> legalisation -

> > this will probably all but eliminate the deaths from infectious

> injections

> > and dirty products, plus premature deaths from improper usage.

> >

> > But then if we legalise steroids athletes will try and use other

> methods of

> > trying to jump, higher, run faster etc. Gene therapy? Cyborg?

> Cloning? etc

> > you name it, even more harmful drugs. and many others - just

> because you put

> > something on prescription doesn't solve all problems! e.g smoking

> / alcohol

> > etc.

> >

> > A know doubt difficult situation I don't have any answers of what

> really to

> > do and nobody really does. There will always be some way of

> cheating - is it

> > better to make a stand now or later? Most athletes may agree

> we'll be better

> > off without them so what if we had something like 'unilateral

> disarmament'

> > where everyone stops taking them - but there will be always one

> what keeps it

> > ??

> >

> > Carruthers

> > Wakefield

[Guest guest]

Dmitry wrote:

He gave us very usable brains and the opposing thumb. That's

about all we have going for us. Everything else we've had to fabricate.

Wanna move faster than you can? Get a car. Wanna fly? Get a plane. Wanna

fight? Get a knife/gun. Wanna be stronger? Get a needle. I know, that last

one could be replaced by " get Supertraining 2000 and work your ass

off " but you still won't get as far. All the other things in the list are

all about going beyond what is humanly possible. Why do our bodies have to

be different.

>>>> Excellent example! I totally agree.

He also wrote:

If someone says that they are about to go on a cycle, I won't say don't, but

I

won't pat them on the back either. While I've made it clear that I have

no problem against the concept, it is simply too dangerous. The odds of

pumping some drywall diluted with alcohol into your veins is too high.

Also I think that using them for recreational purposes is also idiocy.

The risk is not worth the few extra looks you might get at the beach.

I've made a resolution that I will wait five years of serious and smart

training before I even think about it (to see if I have a shot at making

the record books).

>>>> I'll have to disagree with this point. In actuality, driving cars,

flying planes, climbing mountains and sky diving can be just as dangerous if

not more so! I guess we will have to ban anything that enhances our

existence!

Cable

ez, CA.

[Guest guest]

>

> If someone says that they are about to go on a cycle, I won't say don't, but

> I

> won't pat them on the back either. While I've made it clear that I have

> no problem against the concept, it is simply too dangerous. The odds of

> pumping some drywall diluted with alcohol into your veins is too high.

> Also I think that using them for recreational purposes is also idiocy.

> The risk is not worth the few extra looks you might get at the beach.

> I've made a resolution that I will wait five years of serious and smart

> training before I even think about it (to see if I have a shot at making

> the record books).

>

> >>>> I'll have to disagree with this point. In actuality, driving cars,

> flying planes, climbing mountains and sky diving can be just as dangerous if

> not more so! I guess we will have to ban anything that enhances our

> existence!

>

> Cable

> ez, CA.

Yeah, cancer and heart disease does a great job of enhancing our existence.

Lemieux

Tupper Lake, NY

[Guest guest]

I don't see your point. was just saying that it seems that all

things that enhance our existence have a good chance of really " screwing

us up " (or worse).

Dmitry Voronov

Ontario, Canada

----------

power7777us wrote:

" Cable " <frank@i...> wrote:

Dmitry wrote:

> > He gave us very usable brains and the opposing thumb. That's

> > about all we have going for us. Everything else we've had to fabricate.

> > Wanna move faster than you can? Get a car. Wanna fly? Get a plane. Wanna

> > fight? Get a knife/gun. Wanna be stronger? Get a needle. I know,

> that last

> > one could be replaced by " get Supertraining 2000 and work your ass

> > off " but you still won't get as far. All the other things in the

> list are

> > all about going beyond what is humanly possible. Why do our bodies

> have to

> > be different.

> >

> > >>>> Excellent example! I totally agree.

> >

> > He also wrote:

> >

> > If someone says that they are about to go on a cycle, I won't say

> don't, but

> > I

> > won't pat them on the back either. While I've made it clear that I have

> > no problem against the concept, it is simply too dangerous. The odds of

> > pumping some drywall diluted with alcohol into your veins is too high.

> > Also I think that using them for recreational purposes is also idiocy.

> > The risk is not worth the few extra looks you might get at the beach.

> > I've made a resolution that I will wait five years of serious and smart

> > training before I even think about it (to see if I have a shot at making

> > the record books).

> >

> > >>>> I'll have to disagree with this point. In actuality, driving cars,

> > flying planes, climbing mountains and sky diving can be just as

> dangerous if

> > not more so! I guess we will have to ban anything that enhances our

> > existence!

> >

> > Cable

> > ez, CA.

>

> Yeah, cancer and heart disease does a great job of enhancing our

> existence.

>

> Lemieux

[Guest guest]

If someone says that they are about to go on a cycle, I won't

say don't, but

> I

> won't pat them on the back either. While I've made it clear that I have

> no problem against the concept, it is simply too dangerous. The odds of

> pumping some drywall diluted with alcohol into your veins is too high.

> Also I think that using them for recreational purposes is also idiocy.

> The risk is not worth the few extra looks you might get at the beach.

> I've made a resolution that I will wait five years of serious and smart

> training before I even think about it (to see if I have a shot at making

> the record books).

>

> >>>> I'll have to disagree with this point. In actuality, driving cars,

> flying planes, climbing mountains and sky diving can be just as dangerous

if

> not more so! I guess we will have to ban anything that enhances our

> existence!

>

> Cable

> ez, CA.

Yeah, cancer and heart disease does a great job of enhancing our existence.

Lemieux

Tupper Lake, NY

>>>> , maybe you can provide some proof of anabolics causing cancer

and/or heart disease... or is this just a belief that you have? Do you know

what anabolics are used for in a medical setting?

Cable

ez, CA