Vertical Shin Squats on Heels?

[Guest guest]

Mims wrote:

<<On the vertical shins statement, I believe it is best

to try and keep them vertical, even though it is

really impossible. This is a coaching point that

keeps the athlete back on their heels.>>

Casler:

<Yes, as Mel pointed out, it is totally impossible to perform a

regular squat with vertical shins. Can you explain why you feel there

is some advantage to keeping the athlete " back on their heels " ?

I regularly hear recommendations to keep the knee over the ankle

(which is impossible) and squat on the heels and for the life of me

cannot understand where this comes from.

It would seem that for balance, stability and efficient biomechanics,

one would maintain balanced weight distribution on the foot based on

combined joint angles and COG.

Would you mind explaining what you coach that would benefit from

this advice. What specifically might this produce as far as results

or advantages?>

Mims wrote:

> ,

>

> If you can't understand having more weight on the

> heels than the the toes when you squat, you can't do a

> below parallel squat with very much weight. Everyone

> knows the knees stay over the feet and the shins are

> therefore close to vertical. Are you a strength

> coach? I'm 38 and squat 500 drug-free at 170 lbs. without a

> belt, suit, or wraps.

Casler writes:

, Although I am impressed with your squatting abilities, I don't

think they change the physics and biomechanics of the squat.

I'm 53, lifetime drug free, and recently squatted 445 x 10 and 500 x 5

without belt, suit or wraps (is this supposed to have some kind of

significance?) Do either of these qualify me to " understand " ? I can assure

you that I did not perform these squats on my heels " or " with perfectly

vertical shins.

You maybe could also clarify what you mean by " Everyone knows the knees stay

over the feet " . I would have to agree that " if " we are in a standing

position the knees are always " over " the feet to some degree, but somehow I

don't think you are referring to this generalization. It is quite obvious

that you have some type of " acceptable parameter " to this relationship and

it seems to be " directly over " from what I gather.

I would suggest that the statement to " have more weight on the heels "

suggests that the COG is on the heels. It is not. In general it should

always be over the ankle but in a dynamic action will move about depending

on various forces. The perception that it is more on the heels is no more

correct in a squat than any other activity.

Obviously, as I mentioned, in a dynamic action such as a squat, the COG

varies slightly, but the body positions that provide the most stability, and

power ability will provide the best result. You seem to be asserting that

vertical shins and weight on the heels provides this.

But, you still have not explained " any " biomechanical advantage or purpose

to " vertical shins " or COG on the heels. Why, do you feel this has

advantages and what " specifically " are these advantages?

And while you are at it, maybe you can explain how:

1) you can maintain near vertical shins, with dorsiflexion of the ankle during

the squat (or do you squat without dosiflexion?)

2) how, if the knee and hip are flexed and the ankle is dorsi flexed, (as in

a squat) the COG does not actually move slightly forward of the ankle

I'm sure if you were to draw a " force " diagram you would see that the " line

of force " from a barbell on your shoulders during a " normal " squat does not

drop to your heels during much of the movement.

Regards,

A. Casler

TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

Century City, CA

http://summitfitness.websitegalaxy.com/index.html