race is a *social* construct (was OT libertarian demographics)

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:04:00 -0400

" Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> ---->that is my understanding as well. as i mentioned in my other post,

> slavery in other times and places and the fact that africans sold other

> africans into slavery doesn't in any way diminish american slavery, nor

> justify it.

No, but it does give it and us (or at least should) a different

perspective and a much broader and informed context in which to deal

with and understand the problem of slavery.

There is nothing unique about the institution of slavery, and a failure

to recognize such, IMO, can lead one far astray in understanding and

dealing with the whole issue on many many levels.

to be clear, i'm not in any way referring to anything

> *you*wrote. but it seems common that whenever american slavery is discussed,

> someone inevitably pipes in about slavery throughout history in other parts

> of the world and the fact that africans sold africans during american

> slavery seeming to suggest that this fact somehow lessens the atrocity of

> american slavery. that's why i made a pre-emptive strike in my other post

> and mentioned it first. LOL

Hmmmm...well we are obviously running in different circles. My

experience is that it is not common knowledge and usually when brought

to someone's attention gets a rather unpleasant reaction. What? You mean

the locus of evil is not centered only in the white power structure? God

forbid!

I haven't heard it used to justify American slavery, but only to point

out that no race has a monopoly on sin (are you listening Louis

Farrahkan, lol!) But given human nature I don't doubt people do that and

have done that.

>

> >>>>And historically speaking the 400 year enslavement of the Hebrews

> matches any other groups slave experience. In other words, the claim

> of many black americans of a unique experience simply isn't true, and in

> fact such a mentality is quite detrimental.

>

> ------>right. however, africans' experience being forced to immigrate to the

> US at the end of a gun is unique among *americans*. all others are

> *voluntary* immigrants, with a few exceptions...stories that crop up now and

> then of people being brought here *currently* as slaves, and some indentured

> servants from europe coinciding with slavery.

Funny to hear you talk about " at the end of gun " LOL!

I feel that way every year when I have to get naked before the federal

gov't, let them know the most intimate details of my life, and then have

them determine how much of my money I am allowed to keep as a result.

There was a former black presidential candidate who would refer to the

income tax as slavery. I would be inclined to agree.

But, back to the topic at hand. Most black americans consider their experience

unique *period*, and that parochial view is highly detrimental. People

like Frederick s didn't think that way, as he often referred to

the black slave experience as being secondary to the jewish slave

experience of antiquity.

When these issues are looked at from an international and historical

perspective,

then much more light (and hope) can be shed on the subject. When black

americans understand that their experience is not historically unique,

that others in as grave or graver situations have overcome, that will go

a long way toward resolving some of the tougher problems that exist in

*some* (but by no means all) segments of the black community.

There is no finer reading on this topic than the material by

Sowell, and African American economist: http://www.tsowell.com/

Race and Culture: A World View (1994)

Conquests and Cultures: An International History (1998)

Ethnic America: A History (1981)

The Economics and Politics of Race: An International

Perspective (1983)

and while you are at it, you might want to check out his book on

education. Quite eye opening

Black Education: Myths and Tragedies (1972)

Science, Opiate of the Masses?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed9.html

[Guest guest]

oh, btw, i wanted to mention one more thing. you wrote:

" When these issues are looked at from an international and historical

perspective, then much more light (and hope) can be shed on the subject. "

speaking of viewing things in a broader context, i think that not only goes

for american slavery but the general themes of political and economic

dominance by any given group in power and its relations to groups with less

power in these arenas, historically and currrently. IOW, it's also not

unique to america that we have a particular culture and language of power,

which all citizens most negotiate and/or master in order to gain access to

the nation's resources (ie; power). AFAIK, that's a fairly universal

phenomenon throughout the world. and it's also probably not unique to

america that this power was largely obtained through centuries of

colonialism and slavery. and that the group in power historically has viewed

their culture and language as superior to others (whether consciously or

subconsciosly),rather than realizing that it just happens to be the one with

the power at this given moment and time in history, and is not inheritantly

better or worse than any other group's culture or language. that obviously

is a parochial view as well, which i'd guess is also fairly universal to the

groups in power in other nations, and not unique to america.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

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