Re: Insulin resistance and sat fat - Who is a romantic wa...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/3/03 8:29:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I don't think war is romantic, myself, but some of the guys

> who fight them do. Probably not the average draftee, but

> there is a mindset that regards battle as " glorious " etc. etc.

> and you see it in the classics (and in movies like Braveheart).

> Possibly that was more so when you could go hand to hand

> against a guy and the best guy won, and it was guy-against-guy

> (rather than napalm-against-village). Anyway, for the Greeks

> and the Vikings and some Indian tribes, war was as sort

> of a sport, and romantic (coming back with trophies

> to impress the girls).

I haven't read WD so don't know what kind of warrior Ori is romanticizing

about, but hunter-gatherers never had this idea, as far as the limits of

anthropological research allow us to know.

Diamond writes about this a little in Guns Germs and Steel. The

hunter-gatherer philosophy of war is you do everything possible in your might to

NOT

die for your tribe/band.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Diamond writes about this a little in Guns Germs and Steel. The

>hunter-gatherer philosophy of war is you do everything possible in your might

to NOT

>die for your tribe/band.

>

>Chris

Right, they didn't like the " dying for your country " concept. But they often

loved pillaging -- stealing horses or women, for instance. In one tribe I read

about, you were not a " man " until you had killed your first enemy. It was a

" romantic " concept in that sense ... a little of the " bad boy " idea, which was

why I said war was a kind of sport. Killing or torturing an enemy was good stuff

.... but if you killed a member of your own tribe that was murder, and very much

frowned upon.

Not that there were not peaceful groups too. Actually the Spartans fought mainly

defensive wars, as they felt (it is said) the need to stick close to their homes

and families. The Vikings, on the other hand ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Were these hunter gatherers? Which ones were they if so? The spartans were

not! The Vikings had domesticated horses, the Mongols, while they were not

agricultural, they were cattle-herding. I was referring to hunter-gatherer

egalitarian socieities, not cattle-herding ranked societies.

Chris

In a message dated 9/4/03 6:04:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Right, they didn't like the " dying for your country " concept. But they

> often loved pillaging -- stealing horses or women, for instance. In one tribe

I

> read about, you were not a " man " until you had killed your first enemy. It was

> a " romantic " concept in that sense ... a little of the " bad boy " idea, which

> was why I said war was a kind of sport. Killing or torturing an enemy was

> good stuff ... but if you killed a member of your own tribe that was murder,

> and very much frowned upon.

>

> Not that there were not peaceful groups too. Actually the Spartans fought

> mainly defensive wars, as they felt (it is said) the need to stick close to

> their homes and families. The Vikings, on the other hand ...

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>Were these hunter gatherers? Which ones were they if so? The spartans were

>not! The Vikings had domesticated horses, the Mongols, while they were not

>agricultural, they were cattle-herding. I was referring to hunter-gatherer

>egalitarian socieities, not cattle-herding ranked societies.

>

>Chris

I was mainly thinking about the American Indians ... my daughter has been

reading about them and we were watching a special on the history of the horse.

Horse stealing was a favorite pastime. I don't know if they count as

hunter-gatherers or herders if they keep horses, but they didn't keep cattle

that I know of. The had some ranking, but then, I think all societies do to some

degree (shoot, even monkeys have ranking, and chickens!).

-- Heidi