Re: Spironalacton and neopterine

[Guest guest]

Hey Peta,

I have discussed Lulu's crazy urinary neopterin and biopterin levels

with Dr. Yasko at some length, and there were some other parents who

had the tests done in Paris who also discussed this with Dr. Yasko.

Dr. Yasko feels that elevated levels of urinary neopterin signal the

presence of viruses -- and this is absolutely borne out by the world

expert on pterins, Dr. Nenad Blau in Swtizerland - See this article

on urinary pterin testing on his website

http://www.bh4.org/BH4_Deficiency_Screening_2.asp

" Pitfalls : Viral infections increase neopterin excretion in urine

dramatically. " On the other hand, the relationship between

biopterin and neopterin is important (the ratio you described), and

so she does feel that this can reflect a compromising of the ability

to recycle BH4. But she doesn't use this test herslef for judging

BH4 recycling ability. She uses other biomarkers. That's because of

the viral issues. She simply has major reservations about that kind

of testing because some of the results that come out of this test

can raise more questions than give answers -- like my daughter's

insanely high values on that test.

As for how to treat this, she would suggest very different means.

Her understanding of how the body holds onto metals is very

different than that of DAN! doctors. She doesn't chelate metals

because in her view it is the chronic bacteria and viruses in the

system that are holding onto the metals in the body (I wrote

something about this just a couple fo weeks ago on this list). In

her view, if you do not get rid of the viruses and bacteria in the

system, and if you do not silence the viral DNA that has been

incorporated into our own DNA, then you will not be able to fully

release the metals and you will just have them come right back

again. Bypassing genetic mutations that are crucial to getting the

methylation cycle working again so that the viral DNA can be

silenced and the detox functions of the body are working is another

element in her mutli-pronged approach. She has several aspects to

her program. So she just has a very different way of getting at the

viruses and the bacteria and the metals thatn DAN! does.

So for me, looking at all this through her prism, the things you are

reporting about chelation in relation to a hyperactive immune system

and IVIGs jsut doesn't make much sense. And don't get me wrong, I

started out with DAN! and have read sillions of articles and seen

the videos and been to one fo the big conferences. Dr. Yasko's

perspective on these things is jsut a abit different -- she is a PhD

in immunology and infectious diseases and worked for years on the

genomic structure of bacteria and viruses at the DNA and RNA level,

so her perspective really is one of an attention to the immune

system and how it works. She is also a molecular biologist by

training, so she pays alot of attention to epigentics and how

various metabolic conditions will affect gene activity in vitro. So

she doesnt'see genes or enzymes as things that are static, but knows

their activity can be increased or decreased by various conditions

and proteins in the body. Her stuff is pretty complex, and I don't

udnerstand all of it by any stretch of the imagination! All I can

do is try...

I also personally very much like the fact that she uses natural

means to get there -- I'm a real stickler when it comes to drugs --

don't like them much and don't think I ever will. So she really

sort of fits my personal style as a mother.

Anyway, we all make our own choices about these things. If it works

for you and your child, there are no bad effects and your child is

getting better, then that is what we all want to hear! Any way that

works and that doesn't hurt is FABULOUS, as far as I'm concerned.

Hugs,

Theresa

>

> Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. They

have

> been using it since June and in some patients there have been

> significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed neop

> level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using small

> doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were given 9x

> upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this doesn't

> lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try spiron for

> another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing alot

> more research into this area because they have alot of kids who

are

> fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is not

> enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has been

> triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So it's a

work

> in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids with

> overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle but

they

> are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have pieces

> missing.

> I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other ideas.

Oh

> and he did say that since they have written the paper about spiron

> the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> Peta

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa-

I'm sure I haven't explained the immune system bit properly - as I

don't understand alot of it - one question always leads to another.

With Dr Yasko's treatment do you see metals come out in urine or do

you go on how your child is doing. We have done about 26 Iv's with

Charlie since last November ( only a few in Nov and then lots in

March- May) Last Nov Charlie couldn't put 2 or 3 words together and

certainly couldn't answer a question. Now he speaks in pretty good

sentences with pronouns mostly right and uses adjectives.And he can

answer quite a few questions. We attribute these gains to IV's and

HBOT ( up to 100 hours). He recently did India day at school and did

the dance without his TA and knew al the words to the songs. At

Christmas just gone he could not have done this - school play not

very good. So I believe the metals coming out has done a lot of good

but obviously there is alot more wrong!

Will try to read up some Yasko.

Thanks

Peta

-- In Autism Treatment , " tltbaku "

<tltbaku@...> wrote:

>

> Hey Peta,

>

> I have discussed Lulu's crazy urinary neopterin and biopterin

levels

> with Dr. Yasko at some length, and there were some other parents

who

> had the tests done in Paris who also discussed this with Dr.

Yasko.

> Dr. Yasko feels that elevated levels of urinary neopterin signal

the

> presence of viruses -- and this is absolutely borne out by the

world

> expert on pterins, Dr. Nenad Blau in Swtizerland - See this

article

> on urinary pterin testing on his website

> http://www.bh4.org/BH4_Deficiency_Screening_2.asp

> " Pitfalls : Viral infections increase neopterin excretion in urine

> dramatically. " On the other hand, the relationship between

> biopterin and neopterin is important (the ratio you described),

and

> so she does feel that this can reflect a compromising of the

ability

> to recycle BH4. But she doesn't use this test herslef for judging

> BH4 recycling ability. She uses other biomarkers. That's because

of

> the viral issues. She simply has major reservations about that

kind

> of testing because some of the results that come out of this test

> can raise more questions than give answers -- like my daughter's

> insanely high values on that test.

>

> As for how to treat this, she would suggest very different means.

> Her understanding of how the body holds onto metals is very

> different than that of DAN! doctors. She doesn't chelate metals

> because in her view it is the chronic bacteria and viruses in the

> system that are holding onto the metals in the body (I wrote

> something about this just a couple fo weeks ago on this list). In

> her view, if you do not get rid of the viruses and bacteria in the

> system, and if you do not silence the viral DNA that has been

> incorporated into our own DNA, then you will not be able to fully

> release the metals and you will just have them come right back

> again. Bypassing genetic mutations that are crucial to getting the

> methylation cycle working again so that the viral DNA can be

> silenced and the detox functions of the body are working is

another

> element in her mutli-pronged approach. She has several aspects to

> her program. So she just has a very different way of getting at

the

> viruses and the bacteria and the metals thatn DAN! does.

>

> So for me, looking at all this through her prism, the things you

are

> reporting about chelation in relation to a hyperactive immune

system

> and IVIGs jsut doesn't make much sense. And don't get me wrong, I

> started out with DAN! and have read sillions of articles and seen

> the videos and been to one fo the big conferences. Dr. Yasko's

> perspective on these things is jsut a abit different -- she is a

PhD

> in immunology and infectious diseases and worked for years on the

> genomic structure of bacteria and viruses at the DNA and RNA

level,

> so her perspective really is one of an attention to the immune

> system and how it works. She is also a molecular biologist by

> training, so she pays alot of attention to epigentics and how

> various metabolic conditions will affect gene activity in vitro.

So

> she doesnt'see genes or enzymes as things that are static, but

knows

> their activity can be increased or decreased by various conditions

> and proteins in the body. Her stuff is pretty complex, and I don't

> udnerstand all of it by any stretch of the imagination! All I can

> do is try...

>

> I also personally very much like the fact that she uses natural

> means to get there -- I'm a real stickler when it comes to drugs --

> don't like them much and don't think I ever will. So she really

> sort of fits my personal style as a mother.

>

> Anyway, we all make our own choices about these things. If it

works

> for you and your child, there are no bad effects and your child is

> getting better, then that is what we all want to hear! Any way

that

> works and that doesn't hurt is FABULOUS, as far as I'm concerned.

>

> Hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

> >

> > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. They

> have

> > been using it since June and in some patients there have been

> > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed

neop

> > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using

small

> > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were given 9x

> > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this doesn't

> > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try spiron

for

> > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing alot

> > more research into this area because they have alot of kids who

> are

> > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is not

> > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has been

> > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So it's a

> work

> > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids with

> > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle but

> they

> > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

pieces

> > missing.

> > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

ideas.

> Oh

> > and he did say that since they have written the paper about

spiron

> > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > Peta

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Peta, this is wonderful!! can I ask what kind of Iv's you have done? EDTA or DMPS?

Thanks

Liora

Re: Spironalacton and neopterine

Hi Theresa-I'm sure I haven't explained the immune system bit properly - as I don't understand alot of it - one question always leads to another.With Dr Yasko's treatment do you see metals come out in urine or do you go on how your child is doing. We have done about 26 Iv's with Charlie since last November ( only a few in Nov and then lots in March- May) Last Nov Charlie couldn't put 2 or 3 words together and certainly couldn't answer a question. Now he speaks in pretty good sentences with pronouns mostly right and uses adjectives.And he can answer quite a few questions. We attribute these gains to IV's and HBOT ( up to 100 hours). He recently did India day at school and did the dance without his TA and knew al the words to the songs. At Christmas just gone he could not have done this - school play not very good. So I believe the metals coming out has done a lot of good but obviously there is alot more wrong!Will try to read up some Yasko.ThanksPeta-- In Autism Treatment , "tltbaku" <tltbaku@...> wrote:>> Hey Peta,> > I have discussed Lulu's crazy urinary neopterin and biopterin levels > with Dr. Yasko at some length, and there were some other parents who > had the tests done in Paris who also discussed this with Dr. Yasko. > Dr. Yasko feels that elevated levels of urinary neopterin signal the > presence of viruses -- and this is absolutely borne out by the world > expert on pterins, Dr. Nenad Blau in Swtizerland - See this article > on urinary pterin testing on his website > http://www.bh4.org/BH4_Deficiency_Screening_2.asp > "Pitfalls : Viral infections increase neopterin excretion in urine > dramatically." On the other hand, the relationship between > biopterin and neopterin is important (the ratio you described), and > so she does feel that this can reflect a compromising of the ability > to recycle BH4. But she doesn't use this test herslef for judging > BH4 recycling ability. She uses other biomarkers. That's because of > the viral issues. She simply has major reservations about that kind > of testing because some of the results that come out of this test > can raise more questions than give answers -- like my daughter's > insanely high values on that test. > > As for how to treat this, she would suggest very different means. > Her understanding of how the body holds onto metals is very > different than that of DAN! doctors. She doesn't chelate metals > because in her view it is the chronic bacteria and viruses in the > system that are holding onto the metals in the body (I wrote > something about this just a couple fo weeks ago on this list). In > her view, if you do not get rid of the viruses and bacteria in the > system, and if you do not silence the viral DNA that has been > incorporated into our own DNA, then you will not be able to fully > release the metals and you will just have them come right back > again. Bypassing genetic mutations that are crucial to getting the > methylation cycle working again so that the viral DNA can be > silenced and the detox functions of the body are working is another > element in her mutli-pronged approach. She has several aspects to > her program. So she just has a very different way of getting at the > viruses and the bacteria and the metals thatn DAN! does. > > So for me, looking at all this through her prism, the things you are > reporting about chelation in relation to a hyperactive immune system > and IVIGs jsut doesn't make much sense. And don't get me wrong, I > started out with DAN! and have read sillions of articles and seen > the videos and been to one fo the big conferences. Dr. Yasko's > perspective on these things is jsut a abit different -- she is a PhD > in immunology and infectious diseases and worked for years on the > genomic structure of bacteria and viruses at the DNA and RNA level, > so her perspective really is one of an attention to the immune > system and how it works. She is also a molecular biologist by > training, so she pays alot of attention to epigentics and how > various metabolic conditions will affect gene activity in vitro. So > she doesnt'see genes or enzymes as things that are static, but knows > their activity can be increased or decreased by various conditions > and proteins in the body. Her stuff is pretty complex, and I don't > udnerstand all of it by any stretch of the imagination! All I can > do is try...> > I also personally very much like the fact that she uses natural > means to get there -- I'm a real stickler when it comes to drugs --> don't like them much and don't think I ever will. So she really > sort of fits my personal style as a mother. > > Anyway, we all make our own choices about these things. If it works > for you and your child, there are no bad effects and your child is > getting better, then that is what we all want to hear! Any way that > works and that doesn't hurt is FABULOUS, as far as I'm concerned.> > Hugs,> Theresa> > > >> > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. They > have > > been using it since June and in some patients there have been > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed neop > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using small > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were given 9x > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this doesn't > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try spiron for > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing alot > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids who > are > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is not > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has been > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So it's a > work > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids with > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle but > they > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have pieces > > missing.> > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other ideas. > Oh > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about spiron > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.> > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?> > Peta> >>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

[Guest guest]

Hi Loira

We did a mixture of both but more EDTA's because lot's of lead was

coming out. We went to the States for 2 months earlier this year and

did 2 EDTA's and 1 DMPS every week. We were lucky that Charlie was

ok with it ie behavior bearable and CMP and CBC blood tests fine

because quite often they have to stop for a while. Having said that

we are now chelating with DMPS supps but have has to stop for the

last 2 months because Charlie has had terrible bacteria/ fungus.

Gains are stil here but behavior has been very variable ( polite way

of saying bloody awful) We seem to be coming out of it now - touch

wood!

Peta

> > >

> > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron.

They

> > have

> > > been using it since June and in some patients there have

been

> > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed

> neop

> > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using

> small

> > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were

given 9x

> > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

doesn't

> > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try

spiron

> for

> > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing

alot

> > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids

who

> > are

> > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is

not

> > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has

been

> > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So

it's a

> > work

> > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids

with

> > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle

but

> > they

> > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

> pieces

> > > missing.

> > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

> ideas.

> > Oh

> > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about

> spiron

> > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > Peta

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------

> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-

virus mail.

> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Peta, This is something I really dream to do with my son : a two months trip to Dr Bradstreat, with IV’s, HBOT and all off the knowledge he can share…I need to find the right time (I have two other daughters and a very busy husband) and the money…

How old is Charlie please?

Thanks

Liora

Re: Spironalacton and neopterine

Hi LoiraWe did a mixture of both but more EDTA's because lot's of lead was coming out. We went to the States for 2 months earlier this year and did 2 EDTA's and 1 DMPS every week. We were lucky that Charlie was ok with it ie behavior bearable and CMP and CBC blood tests fine because quite often they have to stop for a while. Having said that we are now chelating with DMPS supps but have has to stop for the last 2 months because Charlie has had terrible bacteria/ fungus. Gains are stil here but behavior has been very variable ( polite way of saying bloody awful) We seem to be coming out of it now - touch wood!Peta> > >> > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. They > > have > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have been > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed > neop > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using > small > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were given 9x > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this doesn't > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try spiron > for > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing alot > > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids who > > are > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is not > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has been > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So it's a > > work > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids with > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle but > > they > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have > pieces > > > missing.> > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other > ideas. > > Oh > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about > spiron > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.> > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?> > > Peta> > >> >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Loira

Charlie is 5 ( last July) we started biomed last year when he was 4

but have been doing the diet since he was 3. The money is difficult -

staying out there and trying to eat healthy food is more expensive

than the treatment - I wish we could do it in England. We are lucky

my Mum has used her life savings but it is fast running out so then

I suppose it is remortgage!-How old is your son/ daughter?

Peta

-- In Autism Treatment , " CRESPIN "

<crespin.michael@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you Peta, This is something I really dream to do with my

son : a two months trip to Dr Bradstreat, with IV's, HBOT and all

off the knowledge he can share.I need to find the right time (I have

two other daughters and a very busy husband) and the money.

>

>

>

> How old is Charlie please?

>

>

>

> Thanks

>

> Liora

>

> Re: Spironalacton and

neopterine

>

>

> Hi Loira

> We did a mixture of both but more EDTA's because lot's of lead

was

> coming out. We went to the States for 2 months earlier this year

and

> did 2 EDTA's and 1 DMPS every week. We were lucky that Charlie

was

> ok with it ie behavior bearable and CMP and CBC blood tests fine

> because quite often they have to stop for a while. Having said

that

> we are now chelating with DMPS supps but have has to stop for

the

> last 2 months because Charlie has had terrible bacteria/ fungus.

> Gains are stil here but behavior has been very variable ( polite

way

> of saying bloody awful) We seem to be coming out of it now -

touch

> wood!

> Peta

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron.

> They

> > > have

> > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have

> been

> > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient

showed

> > neop

> > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are

using

> > small

> > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were

> given 9x

> > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

> doesn't

> > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try

> spiron

> > for

> > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are

doing

> alot

> > > > more research into this area because they have alot of

kids

> who

> > > are

> > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is

> not

> > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it

has

> been

> > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So

> it's a

> > > work

> > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said

kids

> with

> > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the

puzzle

> but

> > > they

> > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

> > pieces

> > > > missing.

> > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

> > ideas.

> > > Oh

> > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper

about

> > spiron

> > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > > Peta

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> ----------------------

> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-

> virus mail.

> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------

> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-

virus mail.

> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

>

[Guest guest]

My son is 5, last july also (july 6)!!! this is all so expensive indeed...

Liora

Re: Spironalacton and neopterine> > > Hi Loira> We did a mixture of both but more EDTA's because lot's of lead was > coming out. We went to the States for 2 months earlier this year and > did 2 EDTA's and 1 DMPS every week. We were lucky that Charlie was > ok with it ie behavior bearable and CMP and CBC blood tests fine > because quite often they have to stop for a while. Having said that > we are now chelating with DMPS supps but have has to stop for the > last 2 months because Charlie has had terrible bacteria/ fungus. > Gains are stil here but behavior has been very variable ( polite way > of saying bloody awful) We seem to be coming out of it now - touch > wood!> Peta> > > > >> > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. > They > > > have > > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have > been > > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed > > neop > > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using > > small > > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were > given 9x > > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this > doesn't > > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try > spiron > > for > > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing > alot > > > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids > who > > > are > > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is > not > > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has > been > > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So > it's a > > > work > > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids > with > > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle > but > > > they > > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have > > pieces > > > > missing.> > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other > > ideas. > > > Oh > > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about > > spiron > > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.> > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?> > > > Peta> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> ----------------------> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-> virus mail.> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.> >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

[Guest guest]

Wow - my son Luke is 5 years old also - born July 5th 2001 @ 3:35am!!

Nicola

Re: Spironalacton and neopterine> > > Hi Loira> We did a mixture of both but more EDTA's because lot's of lead was > coming out. We went to the States for 2 months earlier this year and > did 2 EDTA's and 1 DMPS every week. We were lucky that Charlie was > ok with it ie behavior bearable and CMP and CBC blood tests fine > because quite often they have to stop for a while. Having said that > we are now chelating with DMPS supps but have has to stop for the > last 2 months because Charlie has had terrible bacteria/ fungus. > Gains are stil here but behavior has been very variable ( polite way > of saying bloody awful) We seem to be coming out of it now - touch > wood!> Peta> > > > >> > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. > They > > > have > > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have > been > > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed > > neop > > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using > > small > > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were > given 9x > > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this > doesn't > > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try > spiron > > for > > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing > alot > > > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids > who > > > are > > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is > not > > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has > been > > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So > it's a > > > work > > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids > with > > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle > but > > > they > > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have > > pieces > > > > missing.> > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other > > ideas. > > > Oh > > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about > > spiron > > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.> > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?> > > > Peta> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> ----------------------> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-> virus mail.> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.> >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.

[Guest guest]

Peta,

It is so wonderful to hear about all the progress your son Charlie

has made with the protocols. I have tears of joy in my eyes for

you! Talking in sentences with proper use of adjectives and

pronouns! Bravo!

Yes, obviously we need the metals to come out -- that is a major

part of the picture, no doubt. Dr. Yasko does not use chelation --

with the exception of extremely low dose oral EDTA. Instead she has

a program of methylation supplementation to bypass genetic mutations

(type of support is dependent on the mutations), immune support,

anti-virals and RNAs. Her program requires constant supervision of

urinary toxic metals (every 2-4 weeks) and fecal toxic metals. The

approach is to detox metals and viruses at the same time that you

are supporting methylation so that you can stop the viruses from

hijacking the metallothionein proteins for their own use -- this is

what holds on to the metals in the body -- and at the same time

silence the viral DNA and RNA that have been incorporated into our

DNA. To get at aluminum, she works on detoxing chronic bacteria and

aluminum at the smae time. Some of the children excrete massive

amounts of metals on her program. In August I saw a fecal metals

test from one child that had aluminum 80 times the upper reference

range, uranium 21 times, tin 18 times, antimony 12 times, and there

was even more than this being excreted in the red. It was just

incredible -- adn this kid had been dumping massive amounts fo

metals for many, many months, so this was perhaps the peak in a bell-

shaped trend, not a botched test or something like that. Not all

children have these kinds of legendary metals dumps, of course,

because it really does depend on many factors. But yes, metals

dumping and testing is absolutely part of the Step Two detox phase

in a three step program.

Many, many wishes for your son's continued recovery!

Big hugs,

Theresa

> > >

> > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron. They

> > have

> > > been using it since June and in some patients there have been

> > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed

> neop

> > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using

> small

> > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were given

9x

> > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

doesn't

> > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try spiron

> for

> > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing

alot

> > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids

who

> > are

> > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is not

> > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has

been

> > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So it's

a

> > work

> > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids

with

> > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle

but

> > they

> > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

> pieces

> > > missing.

> > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

> ideas.

> > Oh

> > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about

> spiron

> > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > Peta

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa

Thanks for the info - you are very knowledeable on the Yasko

protocol which sounds pretty complicated. Are there any vids to

download like the Danwebcast ones?

How long have you been doing the protocol for Lulu and how is she

doing on it? You said you have done Dan for years so do you think it

didn't help anymore? How old is Lulu? Sorry lots of questions but I

guess that's what autism is!

Unfortunately Charlie's behavior and ability to do things at school

is now very unpredictable. Apparently he has had 2 sad faces at

school this year already and he had none last year! - I have had

loads!!-

Take care

Peta

-- In Autism Treatment , " tltbaku "

<tltbaku@...> wrote:

>

> Peta,

>

> It is so wonderful to hear about all the progress your son Charlie

> has made with the protocols. I have tears of joy in my eyes for

> you! Talking in sentences with proper use of adjectives and

> pronouns! Bravo!

>

> Yes, obviously we need the metals to come out -- that is a major

> part of the picture, no doubt. Dr. Yasko does not use chelation --

> with the exception of extremely low dose oral EDTA. Instead she

has

> a program of methylation supplementation to bypass genetic

mutations

> (type of support is dependent on the mutations), immune support,

> anti-virals and RNAs. Her program requires constant supervision

of

> urinary toxic metals (every 2-4 weeks) and fecal toxic metals.

The

> approach is to detox metals and viruses at the same time that you

> are supporting methylation so that you can stop the viruses from

> hijacking the metallothionein proteins for their own use -- this

is

> what holds on to the metals in the body -- and at the same time

> silence the viral DNA and RNA that have been incorporated into our

> DNA. To get at aluminum, she works on detoxing chronic bacteria

and

> aluminum at the smae time. Some of the children excrete massive

> amounts of metals on her program. In August I saw a fecal metals

> test from one child that had aluminum 80 times the upper reference

> range, uranium 21 times, tin 18 times, antimony 12 times, and

there

> was even more than this being excreted in the red. It was just

> incredible -- adn this kid had been dumping massive amounts fo

> metals for many, many months, so this was perhaps the peak in a

bell-

> shaped trend, not a botched test or something like that. Not all

> children have these kinds of legendary metals dumps, of course,

> because it really does depend on many factors. But yes, metals

> dumping and testing is absolutely part of the Step Two detox phase

> in a three step program.

>

> Many, many wishes for your son's continued recovery!

>

> Big hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron.

They

> > > have

> > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have

been

> > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient showed

> > neop

> > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are using

> > small

> > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were

given

> 9x

> > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

> doesn't

> > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try

spiron

> > for

> > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing

> alot

> > > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids

> who

> > > are

> > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is

not

> > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has

> been

> > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So

it's

> a

> > > work

> > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids

> with

> > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle

> but

> > > they

> > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

> > pieces

> > > > missing.

> > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

> > ideas.

> > > Oh

> > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about

> > spiron

> > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > > Peta

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry it took me so long to respond, Peta!

The videos are not available on webcast -- I really wish they were.

They are, however, available on DVD, and I think maybbe some people

in the UK have some. There is now a lending library that has gotten

going on the AutsimAnswer site -- it's called Sharing Circle on the

discussion list. It is a brand new project and they haven't worked

out all the details. But maybe we can get something going in Europe

for sharing these kinds of resources, the books and DVDs.

We've been on the program since late January -- the first thing we

did was to cut out a bunch fo supplements and add GABA and Lulu

started singing parts of songs nonverbally. We were stunned, and

hooked on the program. As we have added in moe things for Step One

support (htere are three steps), she has made so many gains. This

summer she learned how to walk upstairs holding onto one adult's

hand, climb onto furniture, open doors, eat with a spoon, drink from

a cup and with a straw, walk calmly on the street holding our hand,

wave hello and goodbye, play peek-a-boo, started babbbling for the

first time and said her first word. You can't imagine, but these were

UNIMAGINABLE just last January -- ehr apraxia and ataxia was so

severe, and we had been trying to get her to do these things for

YEARS (she will be four at Christmas). Her report from school was

GLOWING and the Rehabilitation Doctor (they have these in the

Netherlands) is really very impressed with her sudden development.

AND -- she's grown 9 centimeters since January -- and she is VERY

small for her age and has tested for low growth hormone in the past

with our neurologist. So something is happening to her that is just

fabulous here, and we are really so happy. We started DAN in January

2005 with Dr. Kim Van Wetten and Dr. Emar Vogelaar of the European

Laboratory of Nutrients here in the Netherlands. Lulu gained

purposeful hand use when we started folinic acid and oral MB12, but

we went too high on the folinic dosing, and she ended up with

elevated FIGLU (sign of folate deficiency at 8-12 weeks) because

folinic acid strongly inhibits SHMT, one fo the important enzymes in

the folate pathway. I am usually the go low and slow kind of mom, but

a neurologist in Germany was thinking that she had Cerebral Folate

Deficiency and she did have low CSF folate levels, so we were giving

quite high doses of folinic. But with Lulu's extra problems, I am a

bit of a wimp when it comes to serious chelation. The DAN docs

suggested it, but we weren't sure, so we have NOT done the kinds of

things you have done with Charlie. I'm glad, though, because Lulu has

hypomyelination, and heavy duty metals chelation is demyelinating. I

prefer to do this slowly with her. Dr. Yasko has a remyelination

protocol that has seemed to benefitted Lulu as well -- but really,

it's the whole thing all together that helps.

So... that's our story in a nutshell. As I said before, I think there

are lots of ways to get there, and you just have to find the program

and doctor that fits your child and that fits you as a parent. Dr.

Yasko tends to end up with a lot of the tough nut kids, and Lulu is

definitely a tough nut!

I hope all is well with Charlie these days!

Many hugs,

Theresa

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about spiron.

> They

> > > > have

> > > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have

> been

> > > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient

showed

> > > neop

> > > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are

using

> > > small

> > > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were

> given

> > 9x

> > > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

> > doesn't

> > > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try

> spiron

> > > for

> > > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are doing

> > alot

> > > > > more research into this area because they have alot of kids

> > who

> > > > are

> > > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there is

> not

> > > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it has

> > been

> > > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So

> it's

> > a

> > > > work

> > > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said kids

> > with

> > > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the puzzle

> > but

> > > > they

> > > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's have

> > > pieces

> > > > > missing.

> > > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any other

> > > ideas.

> > > > Oh

> > > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper about

> > > spiron

> > > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > > > Peta

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa

I'm so pleased that Lulu is responding to the treatment - it's

horrible when they seem to stand still. Charlie is doing much better

now the yeast flare up is temporarily over. I know what you mean

about preferring a more natural route because that would be my

choice. But for a year ( from 3-4) we did the diet and ABA - not

even many supps. I hadn't found this site and all the biomed stuff

so I kept trying to get his diet right. But since we have chelated

we have seen gains that just were not happening - things like

sharing, wanting to play, showing us things, quite apart from the

language which is pretty good now. So we kind of chelated before we

thought about it too much ( though I did ask alot about the IV's)and

maybe this was best for us. Even though Charlie is just 5 he is

already in year 1 at mainstream and i don't want him to fall too far

behind so I search and search and search - like we all do!

Thanks

Peta x -

-- In Autism Treatment , " tltbaku "

<tltbaku@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry it took me so long to respond, Peta!

>

> The videos are not available on webcast -- I really wish they

were.

> They are, however, available on DVD, and I think maybbe some

people

> in the UK have some. There is now a lending library that has

gotten

> going on the AutsimAnswer site -- it's called Sharing Circle on

the

> discussion list. It is a brand new project and they haven't worked

> out all the details. But maybe we can get something going in

Europe

> for sharing these kinds of resources, the books and DVDs.

>

> We've been on the program since late January -- the first thing we

> did was to cut out a bunch fo supplements and add GABA and Lulu

> started singing parts of songs nonverbally. We were stunned, and

> hooked on the program. As we have added in moe things for Step

One

> support (htere are three steps), she has made so many gains. This

> summer she learned how to walk upstairs holding onto one adult's

> hand, climb onto furniture, open doors, eat with a spoon, drink

from

> a cup and with a straw, walk calmly on the street holding our

hand,

> wave hello and goodbye, play peek-a-boo, started babbbling for the

> first time and said her first word. You can't imagine, but these

were

> UNIMAGINABLE just last January -- ehr apraxia and ataxia was so

> severe, and we had been trying to get her to do these things for

> YEARS (she will be four at Christmas). Her report from school was

> GLOWING and the Rehabilitation Doctor (they have these in the

> Netherlands) is really very impressed with her sudden development.

> AND -- she's grown 9 centimeters since January -- and she is VERY

> small for her age and has tested for low growth hormone in the

past

> with our neurologist. So something is happening to her that is

just

> fabulous here, and we are really so happy. We started DAN in

January

> 2005 with Dr. Kim Van Wetten and Dr. Emar Vogelaar of the European

> Laboratory of Nutrients here in the Netherlands. Lulu gained

> purposeful hand use when we started folinic acid and oral MB12,

but

> we went too high on the folinic dosing, and she ended up with

> elevated FIGLU (sign of folate deficiency at 8-12 weeks) because

> folinic acid strongly inhibits SHMT, one fo the important enzymes

in

> the folate pathway. I am usually the go low and slow kind of mom,

but

> a neurologist in Germany was thinking that she had Cerebral Folate

> Deficiency and she did have low CSF folate levels, so we were

giving

> quite high doses of folinic. But with Lulu's extra problems, I am

a

> bit of a wimp when it comes to serious chelation. The DAN docs

> suggested it, but we weren't sure, so we have NOT done the kinds

of

> things you have done with Charlie. I'm glad, though, because Lulu

has

> hypomyelination, and heavy duty metals chelation is

demyelinating. I

> prefer to do this slowly with her. Dr. Yasko has a remyelination

> protocol that has seemed to benefitted Lulu as well -- but really,

> it's the whole thing all together that helps.

>

> So... that's our story in a nutshell. As I said before, I think

there

> are lots of ways to get there, and you just have to find the

program

> and doctor that fits your child and that fits you as a parent. Dr.

> Yasko tends to end up with a lot of the tough nut kids, and Lulu

is

> definitely a tough nut!

>

> I hope all is well with Charlie these days!

>

> Many hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Had consult with dr last night and asked about

spiron.

> > They

> > > > > have

> > > > > > been using it since June and in some patients there have

> > been

> > > > > > significant improvements. Pterine test in one patient

> showed

> > > > neop

> > > > > > level fall from 600 ish to 400's in 3 months. They are

> using

> > > > small

> > > > > > doses - the study where rats developed tumors they were

> > given

> > > 9x

> > > > > > upper dose limit. Good idea to give BH4 as well but this

> > > doesn't

> > > > > > lower the neop which is poisonous. We are going to try

> > spiron

> > > > for

> > > > > > another month and if no change will stop it. They are

doing

> > > alot

> > > > > > more research into this area because they have alot of

kids

> > > who

> > > > > are

> > > > > > fully chelated but still not right. Unfortunately there

is

> > not

> > > > > > enough known about the immune system yet. They think it

has

> > > been

> > > > > > triggered by metals, measles and maybe other insults. So

> > it's

> > > a

> > > > > work

> > > > > > in progress - bit like chelating in 2001/2002. Dr said

kids

> > > with

> > > > > > overactive immune systems have all the pieces of the

puzzle

> > > but

> > > > > they

> > > > > > are in the wrong order. Whereas those who need IVIG's

have

> > > > pieces

> > > > > > missing.

> > > > > > I think that was the gist but would love to hear any

other

> > > > ideas.

> > > > > Oh

> > > > > > and he did say that since they have written the paper

about

> > > > spiron

> > > > > > the switchboard has been jammed by other DAN dr's.

> > > > > > Does anyone know dr Yasko's views about neop/biop levels?

> > > > > > Peta

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>