RE: Fwd: [MIA_MercuryInducedAutism] BBC-Winter flu jabs evidence queried

October 27, 2006

This Dr Salisbury is the big block on autism research in this

country, I'm told. He vetoes everything on the grounds that it might

cause public disquiet with his jabs. Be nice to know when he retires

Sally

Mum231ASD@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 27/10/2006 08:11:36 GMT Daylight Time, CK2Mail writes:

>

> In a message dated 27/10/2006 01:59:38 GMT Daylight Time,

> redhead60707 writes:

>

> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/ 6087270.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm>

>

> Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising

> people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.

>

> Given the huge resources involved in yearly vaccination

> campaigns, an

> urgent re-evaluation is needed, Tom Jefferson says in the British

> Medical Journal.

>

> Mr Jefferson said when he studied the data much of the work

> was flawed

> and he found little proof of the jab's merit.

>

> BMJ editor Fiona Godlee criticised the way the UK evaluated

> the merits

> and costs of jabs and called for change.

>

> There is a misfit between the evidence and policy, and tax payers

> ought to ask why

> Tom Jefferson

>

> The government's drugs watchdog, the National Institute for

> Health and

> Clinical Excellence (NICE), has already said it would be happy

> to take

> over this job.

>

> Ms Fiona Godlee said: " The problem is that the UK has no

> transparent

> process for evaluating the effectiveness or cost effectiveness of

> vaccines.

>

> " NICE would like to take this on. The government should let it. "

>

> Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation

> (JCVI),

> an independent expert advisory committee first set up in 1963,

> does this.

>

> Policy versus evidence

>

> In the UK, experts say groups most at risk, such as the elderly,

> should get the vaccine during the flu season.

>

> But it is difficult for scientists to make the vaccine because the

> influenza viruses mutate and the strains circulating vary from

> year to

> year.

>

> We need to support the flu vaccination programme

> Dr Fleming of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit

>

> This also makes it difficult for scientists to study the precise

> effects of vaccines, said Mr Jefferson, who works for the Cochrane

> Library - a body that determines the relative effectiveness of

> health

> interventions.

>

> He said the most reliable way to judge their effects was to use

> systematic reviews - impartial summaries of evidence from many

> different studies.

>

> But when he did this, he found flu vaccines had little or no

> effect on

> many influenza campaign objectives such as hospital stay, time off

> work, or death from influenza and its complications.

>

> Most studies were of poor quality and there was little evidence on

> vaccine safety.

>

> Mr Jefferson said: " There is a misfit between the evidence and

> policy,

> and tax payers ought to ask why. "

>

> He said it was possible that some of the sickness labelled as

> flu was

> actually due to other infections, which would cloud the picture.

>

> Best guess

>

> This is compounded by a lack of accurate and fast surveillance

> systems

> that can tell what viruses are circulating in a setting or

> community

> within a short time frame.

>

> In the hurry to prevent sickness and deaths, vaccine campaigns

> begin

> before more precise information about the circulating virus is

> available, he said.

>

> " Given the huge resources involved, a re-evaluation should be

> urgently

> undertaken, " he said.

>

> Last year's flu campaign cost £115 million.

>

> Dr Salisbury, director of immunisation at the Department of

> Health, said evidence showed flu vaccines could give up to 80%

> protection from infection and prevented hospitalisations and

> deaths.

>

> He acknowledged that the vaccines were not perfect, but said:

> " We are

> hopeful that new vaccines currently in development may

> overcome some

> of the concerns raised about efficacy. "

>

> He said the JCVI's work was open to public scrutiny and that the

> committee would consider Dr Jefferson's research.

>

> Dr Fleming, director of the Royal College of GPs' Flu

> Unit,

> said: " We need to support the flu vaccination programme.

>

> " There is good evidence from clinical trials that flu and its more

> serious effects are prevented by vaccination when you look at the

> community effect. "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Subject:

> Fwd: [MIA_MercuryInducedAutism] BBC-Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> From:

> CK2Mail@...

> Date:

> Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:11:36 EDT

> To:

> Mum231ASD@...

>

> To:

> Mum231ASD@...

>

> In a message dated 27/10/2006 01:59:38 GMT Daylight Time,

> redhead60707@... writes:

>

> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/ 6087270.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm>

>

> Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising

> people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.

>

> Given the huge resources involved in yearly vaccination campaigns, an

> urgent re-evaluation is needed, Tom Jefferson says in the British

> Medical Journal.

>

> Mr Jefferson said when he studied the data much of the work was flawed

> and he found little proof of the jab's merit.

>

> BMJ editor Fiona Godlee criticised the way the UK evaluated the merits

> and costs of jabs and called for change.

>

> There is a misfit between the evidence and policy, and tax payers

> ought to ask why

> Tom Jefferson

>

> The government's drugs watchdog, the National Institute for Health and

> Clinical Excellence (NICE), has already said it would be happy to take

> over this job.

>

> Ms Fiona Godlee said: " The problem is that the UK has no transparent

> process for evaluating the effectiveness or cost effectiveness of

> vaccines.

>

> " NICE would like to take this on. The government should let it. "

>

> Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI),

> an independent expert advisory committee first set up in 1963,

> does this.

>

> Policy versus evidence

>

> In the UK, experts say groups most at risk, such as the elderly,

> should get the vaccine during the flu season.

>

> But it is difficult for scientists to make the vaccine because the

> influenza viruses mutate and the strains circulating vary from year to

> year.

>

> We need to support the flu vaccination programme

> Dr Fleming of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit

>

> This also makes it difficult for scientists to study the precise

> effects of vaccines, said Mr Jefferson, who works for the Cochrane

> Library - a body that determines the relative effectiveness of health

> interventions.

>

> He said the most reliable way to judge their effects was to use

> systematic reviews - impartial summaries of evidence from many

> different studies.

>

> But when he did this, he found flu vaccines had little or no effect on

> many influenza campaign objectives such as hospital stay, time off

> work, or death from influenza and its complications.

>

> Most studies were of poor quality and there was little evidence on

> vaccine safety.

>

> Mr Jefferson said: " There is a misfit between the evidence and policy,

> and tax payers ought to ask why. "

>

> He said it was possible that some of the sickness labelled as flu was

> actually due to other infections, which would cloud the picture.

>

> Best guess

>

> This is compounded by a lack of accurate and fast surveillance systems

> that can tell what viruses are circulating in a setting or community

> within a short time frame.

>

> In the hurry to prevent sickness and deaths, vaccine campaigns begin

> before more precise information about the circulating virus is

> available, he said.

>

> " Given the huge resources involved, a re-evaluation should be urgently

> undertaken, " he said.

>

> Last year's flu campaign cost £115 million.

>

> Dr Salisbury, director of immunisation at the Department of

> Health, said evidence showed flu vaccines could give up to 80%

> protection from infection and prevented hospitalisations and deaths.

>

> He acknowledged that the vaccines were not perfect, but said: " We are

> hopeful that new vaccines currently in development may overcome some

> of the concerns raised about efficacy. "

>

> He said the JCVI's work was open to public scrutiny and that the

> committee would consider Dr Jefferson's research.

>

> Dr Fleming, director of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit,

> said: " We need to support the flu vaccination programme.

>

> " There is good evidence from clinical trials that flu and its more

> serious effects are prevented by vaccination when you look at the

> community effect. "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Subject:

> [MIA_MercuryInducedAutism] BBC-Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> From:

> " redhead60707 " <redhead60707@...>

> Date:

> Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:49:39 -0000

> To:

> MIA_MercuryInducedAutism

>

> To:

> MIA_MercuryInducedAutism

>

> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/ 6087270.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm>

>

> Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising

> people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.

>

> Given the huge resources involved in yearly vaccination campaigns, an

> urgent re-evaluation is needed, Tom Jefferson says in the British

> Medical Journal.

>

> Mr Jefferson said when he studied the data much of the work was flawed

> and he found little proof of the jab's merit.

>

> BMJ editor Fiona Godlee criticised the way the UK evaluated the merits

> and costs of jabs and called for change.

>

> There is a misfit between the evidence and policy, and tax payers

> ought to ask why

> Tom Jefferson

>

> The government's drugs watchdog, the National Institute for Health and

> Clinical Excellence (NICE), has already said it would be happy to take

> over this job.

>

> Ms Fiona Godlee said: " The problem is that the UK has no transparent

> process for evaluating the effectiveness or cost effectiveness of

> vaccines.

>

> " NICE would like to take this on. The government should let it. "

>

> Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI),

> an independent expert advisory committee first set up in 1963, does this.

>

> Policy versus evidence

>

> In the UK, experts say groups most at risk, such as the elderly,

> should get the vaccine during the flu season.

>

> But it is difficult for scientists to make the vaccine because the

> influenza viruses mutate and the strains circulating vary from year to

> year.

>

> We need to support the flu vaccination programme

> Dr Fleming of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit

>

> This also makes it difficult for scientists to study the precise

> effects of vaccines, said Mr Jefferson, who works for the Cochrane

> Library - a body that determines the relative effectiveness of health

> interventions.

>

> He said the most reliable way to judge their effects was to use

> systematic reviews - impartial summaries of evidence from many

> different studies.

>

> But when he did this, he found flu vaccines had little or no effect on

> many influenza campaign objectives such as hospital stay, time off

> work, or death from influenza and its complications.

>

> Most studies were of poor quality and there was little evidence on

> vaccine safety.

>

> Mr Jefferson said: " There is a misfit between the evidence and policy,

> and tax payers ought to ask why. "

>

> He said it was possible that some of the sickness labelled as flu was

> actually due to other infections, which would cloud the picture.

>

> Best guess

>

> This is compounded by a lack of accurate and fast surveillance systems

> that can tell what viruses are circulating in a setting or community

> within a short time frame.

>

> In the hurry to prevent sickness and deaths, vaccine campaigns begin

> before more precise information about the circulating virus is

> available, he said.

>

> " Given the huge resources involved, a re-evaluation should be urgently

> undertaken, " he said.

>

> Last year's flu campaign cost £115 million.

>

> Dr Salisbury, director of immunisation at the Department of

> Health, said evidence showed flu vaccines could give up to 80%

> protection from infection and prevented hospitalisations and deaths.

>

> He acknowledged that the vaccines were not perfect, but said: " We are

> hopeful that new vaccines currently in development may overcome some

> of the concerns raised about efficacy. "

>

> He said the JCVI's work was open to public scrutiny and that the

> committee would consider Dr Jefferson's research.

>

> Dr Fleming, director of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit,

> said: " We need to support the flu vaccination programme.

>

> " There is good evidence from clinical trials that flu and its more

> serious effects are prevented by vaccination when you look at the

> community effect. "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/497 - Release Date: 25/10/2006

>

October 27, 2006

On GMTV this morning (which I NEVER watch normally) Dr whatshisname

actually said that the only worry is that the flu jab might not be cost

effective. It is definitely effective.

Yesterday on radio 4 I heard an

interviewer giving a bloke from eye Q (the owner? – I didn’t catch

it all) a really hard time. The gist was that all the studies were poorly

conducted and he was a charlatan only in it for the money!!!

I used to trust these people (not GMTV but

the BBC) how stupid was I ?

> [MIA_MercuryInducedAutism] BBC-Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> From:

> " redhead60707 " <redhead60707 >

> Date:

> Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:49:39 -0000

> To:

> MIA_MercuryInducedAutism

>

> To:

> MIA_MercuryInducedAutism

>

> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/

6087270.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm>

>

> Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising

> people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.

>

> Given the huge resources involved in yearly vaccination campaigns, an

> urgent re-evaluation is needed, Tom Jefferson says in the British

> Medical Journal.

>

> Mr Jefferson said when he studied the data much of the work was flawed

> and he found little proof of the jab's merit.

>

> BMJ editor Fiona Godlee criticised the way the UK evaluated the merits

> and costs of jabs and called for change.

>

> There is a misfit between the evidence and policy, and tax payers

> ought to ask why

> Tom Jefferson

>

> The government's drugs watchdog, the National Institute for Health and

> Clinical Excellence (NICE), has already said it would be happy to take

> over this job.

>

> Ms Fiona Godlee said: " The problem is that the UK has no transparent

> process for evaluating the effectiveness or cost effectiveness of

> vaccines.

>

> " NICE would like to take this on. The government should let it. "

>

> Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI),

> an independent expert advisory committee first set up in 1963, does this.

>

> Policy versus evidence

>

> In the UK, experts say groups most at risk, such as the elderly,

> should get the vaccine during the flu season.

>

> But it is difficult for scientists to make the vaccine because the

> influenza viruses mutate and the strains circulating vary from year to

> year.

>

> We need to support the flu vaccination programme

> Dr Fleming of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit

>

> This also makes it difficult for scientists to study the precise

> effects of vaccines, said Mr Jefferson, who works for the Cochrane

> Library - a body that determines the relative effectiveness of health

> interventions.

>

> He said the most reliable way to judge their effects was to use

> systematic reviews - impartial summaries of evidence from many

> different studies.

>

> But when he did this, he found flu vaccines had little or no effect on

> many influenza campaign objectives such as hospital stay, time off

> work, or death from influenza and its complications.

>

> Most studies were of poor quality and there was little evidence on

> vaccine safety.

>

> Mr Jefferson said: " There is a misfit between the evidence and

policy,

> and tax payers ought to ask why. "

>

> He said it was possible that some of the sickness labelled as flu was

> actually due to other infections, which would cloud the picture.

>

> Best guess

>

> This is compounded by a lack of accurate and fast surveillance systems

> that can tell what viruses are circulating in a setting or community

> within a short time frame.

>

> In the hurry to prevent sickness and deaths, vaccine campaigns begin

> before more precise information about the circulating virus is

> available, he said.

>

> " Given the huge resources involved, a re-evaluation should be

urgently

> undertaken, " he said.

>

> Last year's flu campaign cost £115 million.

>

> Dr Salisbury, director of immunisation at the Department of

> Health, said evidence showed flu vaccines could give up to 80%

> protection from infection and prevented hospitalisations and deaths.

>

> He acknowledged that the vaccines were not perfect, but said: " We are

> hopeful that new vaccines currently in development may overcome some

> of the concerns raised about efficacy. "

>

> He said the JCVI's work was open to public scrutiny and that the

> committee would consider Dr Jefferson's research.

>

> Dr Fleming, director of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit,

> said: " We need to support the flu vaccination programme.

>

> " There is good evidence from clinical trials that flu and its more

> serious effects are prevented by vaccination when you look at the

> community effect. "

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/497 - Release Date:

25/10/2006

>

--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date: 23/10/2006

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date: 23/10/2006

October 27, 2006

the new research actually suggests that the flu jab is ineffective not

that its expensive.

I think Adam Feinstein from Autism Cymru runs EyeQ. the interviewer is

probably putting to him the points made behind his back by opponents

(anti bio blogs often say this sort of thing). Journalistically there is

nothing wrong with this. The person being interviewed is being offered

an opportunity to answer their opponents. It seems flummoxing to those

not used to it. Most of us mix politely with those we agree with. When

we meet someone we disagree with we make polite noises and move on to

someone else. Result most of us never hear criticism of our opinions. If

you want to convert others you need to be able to defend your opinions

against forthright criticism.

Para 1 is my forthright criticism of Dr H whatsisname. If the

interviewer on GMTV didn't come up with it, he or she is slow.

Sally

Sass and Rem wrote:

>

> On GMTV this morning (which I NEVER watch normally) Dr

> whatshisname actually said that the only worry is that the flu jab

> might not be cost effective. It is definitely effective.

>

> Yesterday on radio 4 I heard an interviewer giving a bloke from eye Q

> (the owner? – I didn’t catch it all) a really hard time. The gist was

> that all the studies were poorly conducted and he was a charlatan only

> in it for the money!!!

>

> I used to trust these people (not GMTV but the BBC) how stupid was I ?

>

> > [MIA_MercuryInduced Autism] BBC-Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> > From:

> > " redhead60707 " <redhead60707

> <mailto:redhead60707%40>>

> > Date:

> > Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:49:39 -0000

> > To:

> > MIA_MercuryInducedA utism@group s.com

> <mailto:MIA_MercuryInducedAutism%40>

> >

> > To:

> > MIA_MercuryInducedA utism@group s.com

> <mailto:MIA_MercuryInducedAutism%40>

> >

> > http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/ 6087270.stm

> > <http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/health/ 6087270.stm

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm>>

> >

> > Winter flu jabs evidence queried

> > There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising

> > people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.

> >

> > Given the huge resources involved in yearly vaccination campaigns, an

> > urgent re-evaluation is needed, Tom Jefferson says in the British

> > Medical Journal.

> >

> > Mr Jefferson said when he studied the data much of the work was flawed

> > and he found little proof of the jab's merit.

> >

> > BMJ editor Fiona Godlee criticised the way the UK evaluated the merits

> > and costs of jabs and called for change.

> >

> > There is a misfit between the evidence and policy, and tax payers

> > ought to ask why

> > Tom Jefferson

> >

> > The government's drugs watchdog, the National Institute for Health and

> > Clinical Excellence (NICE), has already said it would be happy to take

> > over this job.

> >

> > Ms Fiona Godlee said: " The problem is that the UK has no transparent

> > process for evaluating the effectiveness or cost effectiveness of

> > vaccines.

> >

> > " NICE would like to take this on. The government should let it. "

> >

> > Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI),

> > an independent expert advisory committee first set up in 1963, does this.

> >

> > Policy versus evidence

> >

> > In the UK, experts say groups most at risk, such as the elderly,

> > should get the vaccine during the flu season.

> >

> > But it is difficult for scientists to make the vaccine because the

> > influenza viruses mutate and the strains circulating vary from year to

> > year.

> >

> > We need to support the flu vaccination programme

> > Dr Fleming of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit

> >

> > This also makes it difficult for scientists to study the precise

> > effects of vaccines, said Mr Jefferson, who works for the Cochrane

> > Library - a body that determines the relative effectiveness of health

> > interventions.

> >

> > He said the most reliable way to judge their effects was to use

> > systematic reviews - impartial summaries of evidence from many

> > different studies.

> >

> > But when he did this, he found flu vaccines had little or no effect on

> > many influenza campaign objectives such as hospital stay, time off

> > work, or death from influenza and its complications.

> >

> > Most studies were of poor quality and there was little evidence on

> > vaccine safety.

> >

> > Mr Jefferson said: " There is a misfit between the evidence and policy,

> > and tax payers ought to ask why. "

> >

> > He said it was possible that some of the sickness labelled as flu was

> > actually due to other infections, which would cloud the picture.

> >

> > Best guess

> >

> > This is compounded by a lack of accurate and fast surveillance systems

> > that can tell what viruses are circulating in a setting or community

> > within a short time frame.

> >

> > In the hurry to prevent sickness and deaths, vaccine campaigns begin

> > before more precise information about the circulating virus is

> > available, he said.

> >

> > " Given the huge resources involved, a re-evaluation should be urgently

> > undertaken, " he said.

> >

> > Last year's flu campaign cost £115 million.

> >

> > Dr Salisbury, director of immunisation at the Department of

> > Health, said evidence showed flu vaccines could give up to 80%

> > protection from infection and prevented hospitalisations and deaths.

> >

> > He acknowledged that the vaccines were not perfect, but said: " We are

> > hopeful that new vaccines currently in development may overcome some

> > of the concerns raised about efficacy. "

> >

> > He said the JCVI's work was open to public scrutiny and that the

> > committee would consider Dr Jefferson's research.

> >

> > Dr Fleming, director of the Royal College of GPs' Flu Unit,

> > said: " We need to support the flu vaccination programme.

> >

> > " There is good evidence from clinical trials that flu and its more

> > serious effects are prevented by vaccination when you look at the

> > community effect. "

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/497 - Release Date:

> 25/10/2006

> >

>

> --

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date:

> 23/10/2006

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date:

> 23/10/2006

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/502 - Release Date: 27/10/2006

>

October 27, 2006

the new research actually suggests that the flu jab is ineffective not

that its expensive.

I KNOW, I WAS SAYING THAT DR HILARY THINGY SAID THE RESEARCH ONLY SAID IT

WASN'T COST EFFECTIVE. THE INTERVIEWERS CONCLUDED THAT WE SHOULD THEREFORE

BE HAVING THE FLU-JAB