Re: Worm Larvae anyone?

[Guest guest]

what a coincidence!! i was just about to write a post to the group

giving a report of my first-ever experience eating worms! this

evening i harvested some corn earworms from my local organic produce

farm and ate them plain, one at a time, still alive. unfortunately i

was only able to gather a handful, but at least i finally ate " bugs "

after developing a great curiosity. as to be expected, they were

tasty, a mild, sweet flavor. they were also extremely juicy. they

are large, attractive worms that grow towards the top of the ear

where you peel the husks. i highly recommend these worms to anyone

who has a quality local source, as this is a good time of year for

them. i only wish there was a more efficient way to gather them.

i'm thinking about planting some corn and finding a way to encourage

worms so i can get a decent supply. what an exciting day! of

course, this is only the beginning of a new chapter in my adoption of

nourishing traditions! (while out in the field in this new endeavor,

i also ate an ear of corn for the first time since i was a kid, and

it was delicious. now i understand why it is so popular.)

mike parker

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> Just when I think I've seen it all, I was in our local

international

> market and found " organic " worm larvae. BBQ, Cheddar and Hickory

> flavor. No kiddin'. About a dozen 1 inch larvae to a pack dusted

in

> the respective flavour. I don't think the larvae took me too much

> it was the hilarious flavoring, as if a typical red blooded

american

> type dude would be disuaded from his twix and slim jim and be

> enticed by CHEDDAR worm larvae. LOL;-)

>

> DMM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[Guest guest]

Well i have to say that is bloody funny..

Pass the CHeddar Worm Larvae please and the ketchup. Ta .

> Just when I think I've seen it all, I was in our local

international

> market and found " organic " worm larvae. BBQ, Cheddar and Hickory

> flavor. No kiddin'. About a dozen 1 inch larvae to a pack dusted

in

> the respective flavour. I don't think the larvae took me too much

> it was the hilarious flavoring, as if a typical red blooded

american

> type dude would be disuaded from his twix and slim jim and be

> enticed by CHEDDAR worm larvae. LOL;-)

>

> DMM

[Guest guest]

EEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWWWWWW... sorry, it's not nourishing or traditional

of me, I know. <G>

But it's from the heart.

Christie

[Guest guest]

by the way, they may have been " organic " , but i doubt they were free

range, pasture-fed larvae. that kind of packaging just deludes the

consumer into thinking they're making a healthy choice, without

really knowing what the worms were eating.

mike parker

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> Just when I think I've seen it all, I was in our local

international

> market and found " organic " worm larvae. BBQ, Cheddar and Hickory

> flavor. No kiddin'. About a dozen 1 inch larvae to a pack dusted

in

> the respective flavour. I don't think the larvae took me too much

> it was the hilarious flavoring, as if a typical red blooded

american

> type dude would be disuaded from his twix and slim jim and be

> enticed by CHEDDAR worm larvae. LOL;-)

>

> DMM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Could you elaborate on what ear worms look like? I sometimes see worms that

are green and move like inchworms in corn, but I'm pretty sure they *are* inch

worms. I ate some corn a couple weeks ago and thought of you, and when I saw

the worm I though, geez, I really should eat this, but he was so cute I just

put him in the trash can figuring he would live and be able to eat whatever's

in there.

Chris

In a message dated 9/13/03 10:42:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bwp@...

writes:

> what a coincidence!! i was just about to write a post to the group

> giving a report of my first-ever experience eating worms! this

> evening i harvested some corn earworms from my local organic produce

> farm and ate them plain, one at a time, still alive. unfortunately i

> was only able to gather a handful, but at least i finally ate " bugs "

> after developing a great curiosity. as to be expected, they were

> tasty, a mild, sweet flavor. they were also extremely juicy. they

> are large, attractive worms that grow towards the top of the ear

> where you peel the husks. i highly recommend these worms to anyone

> who has a quality local source, as this is a good time of year for

> them. i only wish there was a more efficient way to gather them.

> i'm thinking about planting some corn and finding a way to encourage

> worms so i can get a decent supply. what an exciting day! of

> course, this is only the beginning of a new chapter in my adoption of

> nourishing traditions! (while out in the field in this new endeavor,

> i also ate an ear of corn for the first time since i was a kid, and

> it was delicious. now i understand why it is so popular.)

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/03 11:30:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bwp@...

writes:

> by the way, they may have been " organic " , but i doubt they were free

> range, pasture-fed larvae. that kind of packaging just deludes the

> consumer into thinking they're making a healthy choice, without

> really knowing what the worms were eating.

right. look for the " horse-shit ranging " worms if you want the good ones.

;-)

chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/14/03 11:37:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> That reminds me of a comment somebody made about Western farming

> coming to an Asian country. The person said that before pesticides etc,

> if the crop failed, they could eat the bugs etc. from the field so they

> wouldn't starve.

>

> I have to admit this is something that I've always been curious

> about too.

That's a fantastic idea, because if the crop gets attacked by insects, it was

worthless nutritionally in the first place. The insects, on the other hand,

are clearly nutritious if they're thriving naturally.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>by the way, they may have been " organic " , but i doubt they were free

>range, pasture-fed larvae. that kind of packaging just deludes the

>consumer into thinking they're making a healthy choice, without

>really knowing what the worms were eating.

>

>mike parker

ROFL. Unlike yours! Yes, if you want fresh larvae, harvest them on

the hoof. I can just see them in a bowl with a couple of dishes

of dipping sauce ... maybe someone will serve them on the " Iron Chef " .

That reminds me of a comment somebody made about Western farming

coming to an Asian country. The person said that before pesticides etc,

if the crop failed, they could eat the bugs etc. from the field so they

wouldn't starve.

I have to admit this is something that I've always been curious

about too.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/14/03 5:19:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Now wait a minute ... if the bugs are eating a non-nutritious crop

> then they should be less nutritious ...

It depends on what kind of bugs and what kind of crops etc. To make a broad

generalization, the bugs that thrive on bad crops don't thrive on good crops,

which is why they don't eat them, and the bugs are essentially reaching their

ideal nutrition, because it is impossible for them to feed on " healthier " such

plants, due to hormones, etc. Just like some species of house plants happen

to thrive on what are to us air pollutants.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>That's a fantastic idea, because if the crop gets attacked by insects, it was

>worthless nutritionally in the first place. The insects, on the other hand,

>are clearly nutritious if they're thriving naturally.

>

>Chris

Now wait a minute ... if the bugs are eating a non-nutritious crop

then they should be less nutritious ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

you guys are making me so hungry reading these posts!

there's the usual deafening chorus of crickets outside as i write

this, and it's tempting to " go out to eat " ...

mike parker

> In a message dated 9/14/03 11:37:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> heidis@t... writes:

>

> > That reminds me of a comment somebody made about Western farming

> > coming to an Asian country. The person said that before

pesticides etc,

> > if the crop failed, they could eat the bugs etc. from the field

so they

> > wouldn't starve.

> >

> > I have to admit this is something that I've always been curious

> > about too.

>

> That's a fantastic idea, because if the crop gets attacked by

insects, it was

> worthless nutritionally in the first place. The insects, on the

other hand,

> are clearly nutritious if they're thriving naturally.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

do a google image search under " corn earworm " for lots of pics...

what you saw was definitely a corn earworm...

they certainly are cute, but so are kale, crabs, fish, cows, pigs,

peppers, etc. anything can be thought of as the unintentional art of

nature or post-nature, appreciated within the aesthetic frame of

reference of our visual system combined with general knowledge of the

complexity and elegance of various objects, but if it's edible, then

this aesthetic experience should just make it taste better!!! in

fact, so many cultures have eaten food without the currently

prevalent visual disconnection between the original form of the food

and the form at the point of consumption. think of the many ways

animal heads can appear on the dinner table, etc... aesthetic

responses are quite malleable... (so fashion some cognitive mallets

for your ethical vegan friends!)

mike parker

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> Mike,

>

> Could you elaborate on what ear worms look like? I sometimes see

worms that

> are green and move like inchworms in corn, but I'm pretty sure they

*are* inch

> worms. I ate some corn a couple weeks ago and thought of you, and

when I saw

> the worm I though, geez, I really should eat this, but he was so

cute I just

> put him in the trash can figuring he would live and be able to eat

whatever's

> in there.

>

> Chris

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[Guest guest]

>. think of the many ways

>animal heads can appear on the dinner table, etc... aesthetic

>responses are quite malleable... (so fashion some cognitive mallets

>for your ethical vegan friends!)

>

>mike parker

You know you are really lost when you see a big ol' banana slug

and picture it fried in butter with garlic ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/03 12:05:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> >. think of the many ways

> >animal heads can appear on the dinner table, etc... aesthetic

> >responses are quite malleable... (so fashion some cognitive mallets

> >for your ethical vegan friends!)

Mike,

Your whole post was so true! It seems paradoxical, but I think it would be

much easier to eat an animal I think is " cute " than one that is " ugly. " If

what I saw is really an ear worm (I didn't google it yet), then I wouldn't have

much of a problem eating him. However, insects? Ik, I'd have a lot of trouble

eating some insects.

But the worm was green, which is such a friendly color. When something is

cute, I feel like we have a friendship, a kind of partnership where I eat him

and he gets eaten by me and we're all happy.

He conjures up the term " friendly " as in " friendly bacteria, " a phrase that

makes me think of cartoonish bacteria in some school house rock video

explaining to me why they belong in my gut and I should eat them.

But I had one or two per ear. How on earth did you get a handful???

Chris

[Guest guest]

> But I had one or two per ear. How on earth did you get a handful???

i only found about 8 or 9, because it was getting too dark too see

when i was harvesting them. i'm going to try another day to get

more. i just checked a bunch of ears and a large percentage had

them. (by the way, there's usually only one per ear because the

mature worms are cannibalistic.) the farmer told me he was mostly

finished with the patch and i could just go through and open the ears

freely to look for worms. in general, the best way to gather them is

to go when they are being harvested and just gather them en masse

from rejected ears. i haven't had a chance to go when this has been

done, but i'm told that the other week there were tons of worms when

they were harvesting corn for their CSA boxes. what a waste!

the earworms are nice, but i'm much more excited about grubs, which i

hear can be found under grass. hopefully this will be a more

plentiful food source available more often throughout the year, but

i'm still looking for info about them. i'm a total novice to

entomophagy.

mike parker

[Guest guest]

>but i'm told that the other week there were tons of worms when

>they were harvesting corn for their CSA boxes. what a waste!

Sounds pretty sad that they had so many worms in their

crop! I've grown corn before and I never had much problem

with them. However, if you grow cauliflower, at least around

here, they get HUNDREDS of nice plump caterpillars that do not

seem to be cannibalistic. Tomatoes in the south get hornworms

rather easily, which are also easy to harvest.

The natives who are really into grubs create special places

for them to grow, like felling a log so the grubs can eat

the middle. I've grown mealworms before, and they are

easy. There is a " slug festival " somewhere around here

where they serve cooked slugs, which though they

sound disgusting, look a WHOLE LOT like escargot without

the pesky shell or abalone with no catch limit or game warden.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. ,

I personally would like to award you the BRAVEST TRADITIONAL EATER award. And I

thought your story about eating raw lambchops in front of a halal shop owner was

out there!!!!!

I'm sure you know about this book, but I saw it in the store the other

day--great pics from all over the world:

Man Eating Bugs: The Art and Science of Eating Insects

by Menzel, Faith D'Aluisio

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/16/03 3:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

slethnobotanist@... writes:

> A good way to look at bugs is the same way some folks look at parasites.

> They thrive on the weak, the damaged, the infirm as part of God's

> cleanup crew. Just as healthy organisms generally do not have a problem

> with parasites, healthy crops are generally resistant to bugs.

>

> Which speaks volumes about the unhealthy crops we have here, organic or

> otherwise, since they require much in the way of external measures to

> keep the bugs away.

The same thing could be said for weeds too. Most crops that are good for

food thrive on a certain kind of soil, and when that soil is " bad " different

types of " weeds " thrive depending on why it's bad. If we were gathering instead

of planting we wouldn't have to worry about it, because we would only find

plants we liked (or didn't like) that were growing in the soil that suited them.

But since we try to force plants to grow in soil that isn't suited to them,

different plants that the soil *is* suited to get in the way. And we think the

" natural " way to deal with them is to pick the weeds out, which continues to

ignore the root of the problem, being that the weeds are meant to grow in that

soil and the plants we put there aren't.

That could be modified by modifying the soil. In a " state of nature " the

" weeds " would probably grow there for a long time, until they turned the soil

into something that other plants thrive better on, which may or may not be

plants

we like.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:33:54 EDT

ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

>In a message dated 9/14/03 5:19:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>heidis@... writes:

>

>> Now wait a minute ... if the bugs are eating a non-nutritious crop

>> then they should be less nutritious ...

>

>It depends on what kind of bugs and what kind of crops etc. To make a broad

>generalization, the bugs that thrive on bad crops don't thrive on good crops,

>which is why they don't eat them, and the bugs are essentially reaching their

>ideal nutrition, because it is impossible for them to feed on " healthier " such

>plants, due to hormones, etc. Just like some species of house plants happen

>to thrive on what are to us air pollutants.

>

>Chris

>

A good way to look at bugs is the same way some folks look at parasites.

They thrive on the weak, the damaged, the infirm as part of God's

cleanup crew. Just as healthy organisms generally do not have a problem

with parasites, healthy crops are generally resistant to bugs.

Which speaks volumes about the unhealthy crops we have here, organic or

otherwise, since they require much in the way of external measures to

keep the bugs away.

It Really Was The People's Car

http://tinyurl.com/mwbv

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/16/03 6:56:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bwp@...

writes:

> i'm not so sure about these generalizations about bugs feeding on

> unhealthy crops. while there are certain defenses plants have

> against certain bugs, i suspect that in many cases there are very

> healthy crops, but some bugs are just lucky to be in the right place

> at the right time, or the plant simply lacks a natural defense.

> i'm sure there are lots of super healthy plants that still get eaten.

> i'm very wary of these oversimplifications about good/bad,

> unhealthy/healthy, etc. maybe there are bugs that are like us,

> only feeding on the healthy ones. i really don't know much about

> any of this.

Yes, but I don't generally choose my plants based on feremones and infrared

signalling. I don't know much about it either, and I agree that it is a

generalization with exceptions, however, there is apparently general defenses as

well as specific insecticides, the general defenses being hormones that are

naturally developed at certain points in the life cycle for other purposes and I

think the most general would be the infrared frequency the plant is emitting.

Walters talks about it in Eco-Farm, though that's an old book and

there's probably more research on it now.

chris

[Guest guest]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> The natives who are really into grubs create special places

> for them to grow, like felling a log so the grubs can eat

> the middle. I've grown mealworms before, and they are

> easy. There is a " slug festival " somewhere around here

> where they serve cooked slugs, which though they

> sound disgusting, look a WHOLE LOT like escargot without

> the pesky shell or abalone with no catch limit or game warden.

>

> -- Heidi

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

whoa! thanks for the tip! i'm going to check into that. i could

see adding some slugs to my sprout salads for more juiciness.

hopefully they're okay to eat raw, unlike escargot, which i've read

are a little risky raw. if i get some good info on this, i'll

definitely share it with the group!

mike parker

[Guest guest]

thanks ! actually, my post about eating raw cow lung i tore

fresh while a cow was being slaughtered (grass-fed, small farm,

humane, blah blah blah) never got sent to the group because of some

email glitch, so maybe that's even better! when i got interested

in optimizing nutrition i was more or less starting from scratch in

terms of aesthetic prejudices, so i'm willing to eat absolutely

anything and learn to enjoy it as long as i have evidence of its

safety and value! thanks for the book rec! that's one of the first

books i bought when i suddenly got on my entomophagy kick. that's a

great book for pictures.

speaking of books, i'm currently reading a few books in bits and

pieces as pleasure reading that i've read enough to very confidently

recommend to many people on this list. in particular, " curiosities

of food: or the dainties and delicacies of different nations

obtained from the animal kingdom " (peter lund simmons)

and " unmentionable cuisine " (calvin schwabe). both of these books

are incredible, just loaded with arcane and fascinating anecdotes

about " extreme NT " style animal foods. almost every page has

something worth quoting and posting on this list, but it makes more

sense to just recommend the books! these books are veritable

checklists for traditional food bravery. very very fun reading, and

the schwabe book is mostly recipes. the former book was published

in 1859 in england and has bucketloads of very charming prose. i

bought them from amazon.com.

mike parker

> Dear Mr. ,

>

> I personally would like to award you the BRAVEST TRADITIONAL EATER

award. And I thought your story about eating raw lambchops in front

of a halal shop owner was out there!!!!!

>

> I'm sure you know about this book, but I saw it in the store the

other day--great pics from all over the world:

>

> Man Eating Bugs: The Art and Science of Eating Insects

> by Menzel, Faith D'Aluisio

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i'm not so sure about these generalizations about bugs feeding on

unhealthy crops. while there are certain defenses plants have

against certain bugs, i suspect that in many cases there are very

healthy crops, but some bugs are just lucky to be in the right place

at the right time, or the plant simply lacks a natural defense.

i'm sure there are lots of super healthy plants that still get eaten.

i'm very wary of these oversimplifications about good/bad,

unhealthy/healthy, etc. maybe there are bugs that are like us,

only feeding on the healthy ones. i really don't know much about

any of this.

mike parker

> A good way to look at bugs is the same way some folks look at

parasites.

> They thrive on the weak, the damaged, the infirm as part of God's

> cleanup crew. Just as healthy organisms generally do not have a

problem

> with parasites, healthy crops are generally resistant to bugs.

>

> Which speaks volumes about the unhealthy crops we have here,

organic or

> otherwise, since they require much in the way of external measures

to

> keep the bugs away.

>

>

> It Really Was The People's Car

> http://tinyurl.com/mwbv

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:54:14 -0000

" Anton " <bwp@...> wrote:

>i'm not so sure about these generalizations about bugs feeding on

>unhealthy crops. while there are certain defenses plants have

>against certain bugs, i suspect that in many cases there are very

>healthy crops, but some bugs are just lucky to be in the right place

>at the right time, or the plant simply lacks a natural defense.

>i'm sure there are lots of super healthy plants that still get eaten.

>i'm very wary of these oversimplifications about good/bad,

>unhealthy/healthy, etc. maybe there are bugs that are like us,

>only feeding on the healthy ones. i really don't know much about

>any of this.

>

>mike parker

>

While controversial in mainstream circles, the work of Dr. Reams, Dr.

Albrecht, and Andre Voisen have amply demonstrated that crops grown on

high fertility soil are virtually bug resistant, have a higher

nutritional value, and don't rot.

Big subject, lots of it beyond me since I'm not a soil scientist, active

farmer, or even an avid gardener (yet) but interesting and fascinating

nonetheless. There is a group dedicated to such stuff:

BrixTalk

It Really Was The People's Car

http://tinyurl.com/mwbv

[Guest guest]

>whoa! thanks for the tip! i'm going to check into that. i could

>see adding some slugs to my sprout salads for more juiciness.

>hopefully they're okay to eat raw, unlike escargot, which i've read

>are a little risky raw. if i get some good info on this, i'll

>definitely share it with the group!

>

>mike parker

I would guess they are just as risky raw, esp. given what they eat!

You should feed them for a day on lettuce after capture (Same

as escargot).

-- HEidi