Re: anxiety out the wazoo (to name just one problem)

[Guest guest]

Hmm, maybe an egg yolk fast?

I developed a complex of anxiety disorders as an early teenager that

I had for 8 years, phobia, OCD, panic disorder... which aggravated

enormously while I was vegetarian to the point that I was barely

functional, afraid to eat most of the food in my house, nervous about

getting in my car. It disappeared completely after eating NT for

some reason, while I was trying to fix my dental health, and

basically no trace of any of this that had plagued me since I was 12

or 13 years old remains. And it happened quickly.

But I changed so many variables I really have no idea what did it,

but I suspect the eggs have something to do with it. I've pretty

much eaten a minimum of 3-4 eggs a day basically every day since

then. I also added LOTS of raw milk. I drink a quart minimum, and

up to a half gallon. I suspect the extra Ca helps stave off

anxiety. I also started taking cod liver oil, eating enormous

amounts of butter, etc, etc.

There's lots of different ways one could " eat NT " but *guessing*

about which variables helped me most I reccommend anyone with any

kind of anxiety disorder eat a minimum of 3 eggs a day, 6 if it's

severe, try to get lots of raw milk, and take CLO if it's suspected

omega-3s could be a problem. For women the CLO is probably

particularly needed for vitamin A, a deficiency of which could

totally throw your hormones out of whack.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>she gets a bowl of NT ice cream (another obsession) w/LF blackberry sauce if

>she finishes all her meals, but lately that hasn't been doing the trick. she

>starts screaming and trying to get up halfway through the meal.

>

>the only time she is calm, relaxed, and intelligible is when she is lying in

>bed next to my father...which is 24/7, except when she's going to the bathroom

>(still frequently) or supposed to be eating. according to my father (i only

>interact w/her at mealtimes), her mind is still good. she's just 63.

>

>re gluten: i have been slowly cutting it out. by the end of this month, it

>will be totally gone from her diet.

allene:

The lack of gluten might help ... it also might take a month or more

to see any difference. The gut takes a long time to heal in older patients.

Though gaining weight is a good sign!

I know from what you are saying she loves

ice cream, but you could try switching her to coconut milk ice

cream for a bit and cut out dairy? Just for a little bit as an

experiment. I've had major issues " going to the bathroom too often "

and they went away without dairy ... and I've heard that from lots

of other people too. Even though dairy has lots of good fats etc --

some people react to it, and incontinance and urgency is a

common symptom. Also if someone reacts to gluten it tends

to cause gut permeability and brain permeability, which leads

to mental issues, and casein is one of the proteins that can " leak "

and acts as an opioid. I get a major anxiety attack from a piece

of pizza -- I don't know if it is the gluten or the cheese or

maybe the two together but the last piece I had (2 years ago)

scared the daylights out of me.

Kefir does not do that to me though,

so possibly some cheeses etc. would be ok (I haven't had time

to experiment). My daughter of her own accord switched to

coconut milk instead of cream ... granted I don't have a good

source of raw milk or cream anyway so this is easier too.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

hey, chris, heidi, and all--

thanks for the reply, chris. (heidi, i'll respond to yours

separately. tomorrow. tonight i crash.)

> Hmm, maybe an egg yolk fast? <

if by " fast " , you mean nothing but, there's no way that i could get

her to do that.

> phobia, OCD, panic disorder... which aggravated enormously while I

was vegetarian to the point that I was barely functional, afraid to

eat most of the food in my house, nervous about getting in my car. <

that sounds like my mother. except that my mother's real problems

didn't start manifesting until she started taking the drugs. (i'm not

sure why she started taking them in the first place, although i

suspect that some doc suggested an anti-depressant because my

perfectionist mother still can't get over the fact that i have

muscular dystrophy. and who knows? maybe her failure to accept it

was/is due to a nutritional problem...?)

re the raw eggs and raw milk

she gets a goat milk kefir smoothie with 3 eggs every other day for

bfast; on alternating days, she gets raw goat/cow cheese w/fruit &

coconut oil. (i need more bfast ideas for a finicky eater.)

1x or 2x/wk, for supper, she gets hashbrowns with 2 cooked whites and

raw yolks (w/butter and creme fraiche), but i was planning anyway to

up that number.

her other suppers are porridges (oatmeal, amaranth, millet), pancakes

made from porridge, and quesadillas with non-melted cheese and corn

tortillas.

(it might not sound like much variety, but this woman had " total "

cereal every morning for a decade and a sandwich every noon.)

knowing how important Ca is for calming the nerves, i try to get as

much as i can into her. she has a cup of soup from bone broth 3-4x/wk.

re CLO, butter, etc

she gets CLO and butter oil before each meal, and i am generous w/the

(raw) butter & creme fraiche, but...i have problems digesting fats,

and i am beginning to suspect that she does, too. my father informed

me that her stool this morning floated.

i have noticed that she burps a lot, particularly when drinking the

smoothie. i'm throwing that out here just in case it means

anything ;o)

i think that the fats would do us both a world of good, but i know

that *i* need to improve my digestive health first, so i'll work on

hers at the same time.

in the meantime, i can try to get some more Bs into her. i was a

vegetarian for a long time and a nervous nelly; supplemental Bs

helped me.

thanks again, chris, and kudos for getting rid of your anxiety!

allene

[Guest guest]

Hi e,

I've been off the list for quite a while, but am just starting to track

messages again and saw your message.

2 things I'd suggest. Definitely get her off the gluten, I just had a

client with decades of very severe depression and anxiety and daily suicidal

ideation. Tried suicide once, a year ago. I'd been seeing him about a

month (I'm a health and wellness coach) and suggested he try at least a

month off gluten (given the gluten connection to depression). Within a week

all his suicidal ideation went completely away. I was flabbergasted to say

the least. I don't know how common " psychiatric " type symptoms are with

gluten but I now have a picture of how severe they can be. So your

inclination to get her off gluten I think is right on target.

Also getting her off the meds is an excellent idea. Make sure though you

know why she is on each one (what symptoms it is supposed to be treating)

and what may happen if you stop it. Check to see if you need to wean a

medicine slowly or can stop cold turkey. And try to come up with an

alternative plan to address whatever issue the medicine was prescribed for.

Medications are a double edged sword. In the short-term they can sometimes

be livesaving but overall I believe they are best viewed as a crutch or

bandaid, something to be used for a very short time in a pinch whilst the

underlying cause of the problem is addressed. I think modern medicine has

done a huge disservice to the health of many nations with the view that

medications are a be all and end all of treating diseases-drug companies

have gotten richer and people have gotten sicker. But don't get me started.

If you could find a health practitioner (maybe a naturopath if you can't

enlist the aid of her physicians) to help you with the medication issues I

think it would be very good and helpful for you.

Also you might try EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) which I use very

successfully with my clients all the time. Craig (the developer) has a

web site where you can download an instruction manual for free. This is a

very powerful technique in skilled hands and in the hands of novices can

often get stunning results as well. Here's the website:

http://www.emofree.com it has a search engine so you can look up cases to

see if anyone else has used it for the problem you're researching. If you

decide to try this, use if first on yourself to rid yourself of your

anxieties , fears and frustrations so you have some experience before trying

it with your mother.

Best of Luck,

Pellicer, M.D.

Dr@...

p.s. There are actually physicians in this country who still make housecalls

although not very many.

anxiety out the wazoo (to name just one

problem)

please, help me help my mother, who has extreme anxiety at mealtimes and,

at

5'6 " , weighs only 89lbs...up from 79, thanks to _NT_.

background: back in '98, my mother started having problems sleeping

because

she was afraid of wetting the bed (due to frequent urination). her PCP

drastically upped her dosage of amitryptiline (i don't know how long she

had been on

anti-depressants) because it dries you up, and my mother immediately went

off

the deep-end. so, the PCP immediately took her off the amitryptiline,

which

caused withdrawal effects. and thus began my mother's roller-coaster ride

with

one psych med after another to treat withdrawal and side-effects, which

the drs

never identified as such.

long story less long: since psych meds caused my mother to lose her

appetite,

the docs decided that she needed electric shock therapy. after that, they

decided that she had alzheimers.

that's when i stepped in, put my foot down, and discovered _your drug may

be

your problem_ by dr peter breggin. my father took her off all psych meds

(too

quickly to my thinking), and the drs reversed the alzheimers diagnosis. i

also

got her off " ensure " .

i had been slowly incorporating NT into her life, but, when she took a

sudden

turn for the worse a couple of months ago, i took over and began preparing

all her meals a la NT.

i would like to get my mother to a point where she is able to leave the

house

and see a dr, but she hasn't stepped out the door since xmas, which is

also

probably when she took her last shower. and i don't know of any dr in this

country who does housecalls. (so much for the agoraphobic, huh?) i've been

working

on some of her fears through b-mod, but i have to work through my father

because my mother is obsessed with him. i'd like to work w/her separation

anxiety,

but what i really need at this point is to get her to finish her meals.

she gets a bowl of NT ice cream (another obsession) w/LF blackberry sauce

if

she finishes all her meals, but lately that hasn't been doing the trick.

she

starts screaming and trying to get up halfway through the meal.

the only time she is calm, relaxed, and intelligible is when she is lying

in

bed next to my father...which is 24/7, except when she's going to the

bathroom

(still frequently) or supposed to be eating. according to my father (i

only

interact w/her at mealtimes), her mind is still good. she's just 63.

re gluten: i have been slowly cutting it out. by the end of this month, it

will be totally gone from her diet.

again, please, help. tia--

allene in nc

ps: she does take premarin and tylenol pm. i would like to get her off

both,

but i'm at a loss...and oh so very tired.

another ps: is it possible that she is detoxing from all those drugs? now,

with all the good food and good fats i'm getting in to her...by hook or by

crook....

yet another: i'm ordering _patient, heal thyself_ as well as dr rubin's

new

bk and some of the supplements later this wk for my mom, my pop (GERD),

and

myself. my mother had UC when she was younger, and, although i don't know

about

her digestive situation, i can't imagine that it would be healthy. my

father

says that she takes the purple pill, but that she doesn't need it, that

she

takes it just because he does. i'll see about getting her off of that this

wk. my

pop, on the other hand, is still too strong to overwhelm....

[Guest guest]

>I don't know how common " psychiatric " type symptoms are with

>gluten but I now have a picture of how severe they can be. So your

>inclination to get her off gluten I think is right on target.

How common is it?

According to " Dangerous Grains " , about HALF the people with

psychiatric symptoms have elevated antigliadin antibodies.

I had severe depression in the past that I think was gluten

related ... I've had ZERO depression since being off gluten,

or anxiety. I met a lady whose son was schizophrenic,

which also resolved on a GF diet.

Dr. Fasano is doing research that indicates that if you are

gluten reactive, it causes your body to create zonulin, which

breaks down the gut barrier AND the blood/brain barrier.

Which I think might explain a lot.

-- Heidi

>

[Guest guest]

mary, heidi (my nutritional science goddess), and all--

thank you for the replies. it takes me a while to respond, but i'll

get there.

mary wrote: < I don't know how common " psychiatric " type symptoms are

with

gluten but I now have a picture of how severe they can be. >

since it's unanimous, the gluten is gone. and i am so glad to hear

that there is one brand of oats i can use because her porridges and

porridge pancakes are 2 of the few things that she doesn't make a

fuss over. (amaranth is the hands-down favorite, though.

errr....don't tell me that it's cross-contaminated, too? millet?)

heidi wrote: < it also might take a month or more to see any

difference. The gut takes a long time to heal in older patients.

Though gaining weight is a good sign! >

*only* a month? yippee!

< you could try switching her to coconut milk ice cream for a bit and

cut out dairy? Just for a little bit as an

experiment.>

i had already been considering it. i bought 2 cases of the coconut

products from wildernessfamily --for myself-- but have been too

exhausted to mess with them. but i'll get it all out tomorrow and

start tracking down some fresh cocos.

< I've had major issues " going to the bathroom too often "

and they went away without dairy ... and I've heard that from lots

of other people too. Even though dairy has lots of good fats etc --

some people react to it, and incontinance and urgency is a

common symptom. >

ahah.....thank you. and my father thanks you.

< Also if someone reacts to gluten it tends

to cause gut permeability and brain permeability, which leads

to mental issues, and casein is one of the proteins that can " leak "

and acts as an opioid. I get a major anxiety attack from a piece

of pizza -- I don't know if it is the gluten or the cheese or

maybe the two together but the last piece I had (2 years ago)

scared the daylights out of me. >

fascinating! cheese scares me as well, but only because it lowers my

blood pressure.

< Kefir does not do that to me though,

so possibly some cheeses etc. would be ok >

since i have problems even with clabbered goat kefir, i'll just err

on the side of caution w/my mom, and get rid of it all. i figure,

with all the great stuff that she is taking in (and the amount! she

eats more than my father, who is 2x her weight), there has to be

something that is having a deleterious effect.

re fats, burping, " floaters "

< She may have low stomach acid/enzymes ... old folks

commonly do. Also probiotics help. Biogest is a good

enzyme/HCL supplement. >

well, she is on the purple pill, although my father says that she

doesn't need to be. when i find out the protocol for taking her off,

the purple pill will be replaced with an orange capsule (a B50). and

i'll pick up some biogest and probiotics. i've been trying to get as

much fermented food and beverages in her as possible for the enzymes.

< If she likes sandwiches, you can buy or make good

GF bread, which makes an easy thing to feed people.

I make mine with tons of eggs and everyone likes

it -- my daughter LOVES toast so I figure, put lots

of good stuff in it. I can post the recipe again if

you like. >

oh, she loves sandwiches and is quite peeved that she can no longer

have any....as much as i would love to make your recipe, heidi, i am

on my last leg here, so i had better just purchase for the time

being. can you recommend a good brand, please?

mary, i'll respond to the rest of your email tomorrow.

thank you both again, heidi and mary--

allene

[Guest guest]

e-

I have no idea whether this will help, but I had fairly serious anxiety

problems (though not even remotely like your mother's) until I added a

pancreatin supplement to my regimen. Plant enzymes did nothing for me, though.

>again, please, help. tia--

-

[Guest guest]

<<I have no idea whether this will help, but I had fairly serious anxiety

problems (though not even remotely like your mother's) until I added a

pancreatin supplement to my regimen. Plant enzymes did nothing for me,

though.>>

... how does a pancreatin supplement affect anxiety? do you have any links?

TIA

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Dedy-

>... how does a pancreatin supplement affect anxiety? do you have any

>links?

I have no links on that specific remedy, though you may well be able to

find some on your own, but various kinds of impaired digestion are linked

with various mental disorders. Ketogenic diets, for example, are excellent

for epilepsy and, IIRC, schizophrenia. The SCD diet has had some success

with autism, as have gluten-free diets. There's a profound connection

between the brain and the gut, and digestive enzyme deficiency is just one

manifestation.

-

[Guest guest]

At 10:13 AM 9/20/2003, you wrote:

>>... how does a pancreatin supplement affect anxiety? do you have any

>>links?

>

>I have no links on that specific remedy, though you may well be able to

>find some on your own, but various kinds of impaired digestion are linked

>with various mental disorders. Ketogenic diets, for example, are excellent

>for epilepsy and, IIRC, schizophrenia. The SCD diet has had some success

>with autism, as have gluten-free diets. There's a profound connection

>between the brain and the gut, and digestive enzyme deficiency is just one

>manifestation.

>

>

>-

The one thing I've read on the gut-brain connection that makes a lot of

sense is the zonulin thing. The gut can produce zonulin under certain

conditions, and zonulin opens up the gut barrier AND the brain barrier.

Undigested food is irritating to the gut, so pancreatin supplements

just get it digested so it doesn't cause problems. If you get leaky gut,

you get all kinds of chemicals in your blood, including psychoactive ones.

Anyway, I know a lady whose kid would get downright violent if he

didn't get his pancreatin with meals!

-- Heidi