Re: Speech probs and calcium now also Vitamin K

[Guest guest]

Sue,

The Nutricentre sell Vit K, just go to their website and do a search

for Vitamin K, that brings up several different ones. I've just

ordered the Life Extension one from there.

I have also been very interested and intrigued by this article

posted by Theresa (thank you) and the discussion about it, and have

been kicking myself for not trying Vit K before as it is something i

had considered in the past but never got around to doing!!!!!

My ds Greg bruises easily (as do I), has frequent nose bleeds and

problems with oxalates, possibly an ideal candidate for this

suppliment, we will see, going to give it a go anyway, will let you

all know how we get on.

Can anyone give me any guidance on dosage for a hefty 11 year old,

about 38-40 Kg?

Incidentally ds had a massive nose bleed at the weekend and this was

during the night after nicking some High Oxalate food while my back

was turned and pigging out on it Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, Is this

significant I wonder especially as i'v just realised that the nose

bleeds have reduced by going LOD??? Boy does all this stuff make my

brain hurt LOL

Nikki

>

> ---

> > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about overdose

> potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in

Uk it

> has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

anyone

> know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

Nikki,

The nose bleeds and easy bruising sound to me like a problem with

G6PDH. I'm not necessarily suggesting that there is a polymorphism

or mutation there -- there certainly could be as it is the most

common genetic mutation on the planet -- but rather that genetics

plus supplements might be placing stress on that system -- part of

the glucose system. Are you using lots of sulphur-based supplements?

I can provide mor info on this if you would like. The Vit K is

definitely a good place to staret.

The LEF product is available at Nutricentre and is called Super K

with K2.

Hugs,

Theresa

> >

> > ---

> > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

overdose

> > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in

> Uk it

> > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> anyone

> > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > Sue

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa,

I definitely think theres a case for the vit K with my son Jack. He

hassevere problems with expressive language and I also think calcium is

being moved to tissue etc.. and not teeth and bones as he has

discoloured teeth and calcium on hair tests is always sky high, almost

off the scale and in rbc elements is at the low end of ref range. What

dosage should I give for a 62lber age 10? I take it the nutricentre

product is the one to go for? I notice the article suggests putting a

hold on chelation whilst addressing this imbalance, do you have any idea

of how long it might take or is it just a case of retesting hair after a

couple of months?

With many thanks

ltbaku wrote:

> Nikki,

>

> The nose bleeds and easy bruising sound to me like a problem with

> G6PDH. I'm not necessarily suggesting that there is a polymorphism

> or mutation there -- there certainly could be as it is the most

> common genetic mutation on the planet -- but rather that genetics

> plus supplements might be placing stress on that system -- part of

> the glucose system. Are you using lots of sulphur-based supplements?

>

> I can provide mor info on this if you would like. The Vit K is

> definitely a good place to staret.

>

> The LEF product is available at Nutricentre and is called Super K

> with K2.

>

> Hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

> > >

> > > ---

> > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> overdose

> > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in

> > Uk it

> > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> > anyone

> > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > Sue

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I definitely think that Vitamin K will help with the calcium, and

the LEF product they carry at Nutricentre -- Super K with K2 (thwe

one that suggested), is a great product. The other things

taht Dr. Yasko always suggests for protecting against calcium excess

are magnesium (she uses magnesium citrate or E-Lyte liquid magnesium

only), 25- maximum 40 mg daily of zinc (E-Lyte liquid zinc or

Optizinc only), and vinpocetine.

As for the chelation, I can't tell you about that because I have

Lulu on Dr. Yasko's program and she doesnt'use chelation, with the

exception of VERY low dose oral EDTA. Sorry I cna't help you there.

Hoping that you get some of this stuff cleared up soon!

Hugs,

Theresa

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> > overdose

> > > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that

in

> > > Uk it

> > > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> > > anyone

> > > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > > Sue

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I spoke with the author of this paper and it is her feeling that dealing with the K deficiency will allow you to pull more metals.

All I can tell you is that we chelated prior to and during this problem we had with calcium and she pulled enough metals to recover and lose her dx, so not sure chelation should be put off.

I can also tell you that we are seeing some viral issues surface with the supplementation of K as the author of the paper thinks that immune cells better communicate with each other as you are getting the calcium issues resolved, just a note of caution.

We are also seeing better motivation and up to and surpassing age appropriate fine motor control, which were our only remaining issues. She did not get a dx of add, but her psychological tester noted that her attention was adequate, but could be better and it is now.

So, IMHO, I would not put chelation off as there is a limited time to get the metals out. Just my opinion.

Re: Speech probs and calcium now also Vitamin K

Hey ,I definitely think that Vitamin K will help with the calcium, and the LEF product they carry at Nutricentre -- Super K with K2 (thwe one that suggested), is a great product. The other things taht Dr. Yasko always suggests for protecting against calcium excess are magnesium (she uses magnesium citrate or E-Lyte liquid magnesium only), 25- maximum 40 mg daily of zinc (E-Lyte liquid zinc or Optizinc only), and vinpocetine. As for the chelation, I can't tell you about that because I have Lulu on Dr. Yasko's program and she doesnt'use chelation, with the exception of VERY low dose oral EDTA. Sorry I cna't help you there.Hoping that you get some of this stuff cleared up soon!Hugs,Theresa> > > >> > > > ---> > > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about> > overdose> > > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum> > > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in> > > Uk it> > > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does> > > anyone> > > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?> > > > Sue> > > >> > >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Theresa,

Many thanks for all your help and advice. I've ordered the Super K with

K2 and hope to get started with it soon. Do you know where you can get

the E-lyte mins from in the UK?

Love

tltbaku wrote:

> Hey ,

>

> I definitely think that Vitamin K will help with the calcium, and

> the LEF product they carry at Nutricentre -- Super K with K2 (thwe

> one that suggested), is a great product. The other things

> taht Dr. Yasko always suggests for protecting against calcium excess

> are magnesium (she uses magnesium citrate or E-Lyte liquid magnesium

> only), 25- maximum 40 mg daily of zinc (E-Lyte liquid zinc or

> Optizinc only), and vinpocetine.

>

> As for the chelation, I can't tell you about that because I have

> Lulu on Dr. Yasko's program and she doesnt'use chelation, with the

> exception of VERY low dose oral EDTA. Sorry I cna't help you there.

>

> Hoping that you get some of this stuff cleared up soon!

>

> Hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> > > overdose

> > > > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > > > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that

> in

> > > > Uk it

> > > > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> > > > anyone

> > > > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > > > Sue

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Caroline,

The Optizinc she uses is called L-Optizinc and it is methionine-

bound zinc - http://www.interhealthusa.com/faqs/loptizinc_faqs.aspx

Vinpocetine helps both to increase circulation to the brain and to

remove excess calcium from the brain. Lots of very complex

scientific articles on PubMed about this. I use this with Lulu, but

can't say that I saw a BIG change when I added it. But her

intracellular calcium levels are highish, so I like to keep it in.

Definitely Thorne magnesium citrate is perfect. They are a very

good company. I would trust them, no problem.

If the Houston Enzymes are good for you, why not keep them and

instead add in something with some good pancreatin? The houston

Enzymes do lots for our kids that other enzymes can't -- especially

in terms of helping with various intolerances/allergies to casene,

gluten, etc. I haven't stopped them with Lulu because of this -- and

that's my own choice.

I use some of the probiotics that Dr. Amy suese, and some other

wones. As far as I'm concerned, you can mix and match -- many do.

The point is simply to rotate a number of probiotics that have

dcifferent items in them, so that you get a rounded probiotic mix

and aren't giving just the same kind every day.

Metabolics are very different from E-Lyte. Nutricentre does carry

the E-Lyte minerals.

Many hugs to you and -- I know you've needed it this week!

xox,

Theresa

>

>

> In a message dated 27/09/2006 12:41:05 GMT Standard Time,

tltbaku@...

> writes:

>

> 25- maximum 40 mg daily of zinc (E-Lyte liquid zinc or

> Optizinc only), and vinpocetine

>

>

> Hi Theresa,

>

> More questions is Optizinc the product by Brainchild Nutritionals?

>

> What is vinpocetine?

>

> I am going to start on the LEF product too and also order

the E-lyte

> Magnesium, do you know if the Thorne Magnesium citrate that I am

using is

> OK, in fact how do I find out which products are OK and which are

not, I am not

> very sure what I am looking out for?

>

> Since has been poorly I have restarted her supplements

slowly and

> all she is currently having are her Houstons Enzymes at a lower

dose than

> before, Carbdigest which I am going to change out for the

Pancreatin containing

> Super Digestive Enzymes that you said Theresa by Dr Amy.

>

> We did not stop having Sacc boulardii, ProbioGold and Proculture

Gold

> probiotics. I will continue with these and swap over to Dr Amy

ones once these run

> out.

>

> I am also giving one Zinc picolinate (NOW) and one Magnesium

Malate by

> Nutramedix and will swap out both of these when I begin with the

Optizinc or

> E-lyte Zinc and Magnesium.

>

> Theresa do you know if the Metabolics liquid minerals are the same

as the

> E-lyte products?

>

> So I guess we are on our way really with this, I have been going

thru your

> email again today Theresa and want to ask you a few questions but

will do that

> tomoro when I get some time.

>

> has been at school this morning but me and her teacher

thot til

> lunch time was enough cos she is still kinda wiped out from being

poorly. She has

> had a brill morning and was very excited that mummy came to pick

her up.

>

> So off to get some cleaning done hop-efully...

>

> Lotsa Love and thanks all for this great help...

>

> Love Caroline

> xxx

>

> PS you should be on commission from the Nutricentre they

will be

> amazed at all the sales of Vitamin K this week!!

>

[Guest guest]

Nutricentre carries all of them! Yippee!!!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> > > > overdose

> > > > > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate

optimum

> > > > > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed

that

> > in

> > > > > Uk it

> > > > > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain.

Does

> > > > > anyone

> > > > > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > > > > Sue

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa,

thanks for your reply and sorry for the delay in getting back to

you, this was something i thought i needed to swot up on a bit first

and i see that you have been kept busy by others on the list in the

mean time :+)

Right, where do i start? I don't think we are taking many/any

sulphur containing supps BUT ds does have a craving for sulphur

containing foods, i'm always very suspicious of any cravings in my

kid!!! Whenever i'm cooking and cutting up an onion he always has

to have some of it. Can you or anyone else point me in the direction

of a list of sulphur containing supps so that i can be sure of this,

i know most/all? chelating agents contain sulphur but this is

something we are not doing at present.

I think it is possible we may have a G6PDH problem going on in our

ds either genetic or induced. The reasons i think this are various,

firstly the easy bruising and nose bleeds as already stated, but

also Greg (and i) have some hypermobility, we both have double-

jionted thumbs, i have weak loose ankles which cause me problems and

he has been described as having loose ligaments!

Also he had jaundice after birth which i now suspect was caused by

the Vit K injection they give all new born babies here. What are

the medical establishment doing to our kids, they really should do

proper research before they introduce blanket policies that could

potentially harm some of them Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - sorry rant

over!!!!!!

And his problems with oxalates developed when we started giving high

doses of Vit C to help with constipation, i now know this is not a

good idea if you have a G6PDH problems and could possibly even have

induced both of these problems!!!

With Vit K i am going to try supplimenting this as it is not

something my ds gets much of in his diet and he is a GUT kid so

quite likely none is being made by his body. I do also now realise

from my research that i have to go cautiously with this because of

the G6pdh problem. The reason for this is K can cause side-effects

sometimes severe if you have this condition. The worse is K3 which

should not be given but also high doses of K1 can cause problems as

well. This is what my research has told me but would be very

pleased to hear your views or anyone elses on this as i'm far from

an expert here LOL

kind regards, Nikki

>

> Nikki,

>

> The nose bleeds and easy bruising sound to me like a problem with

> G6PDH. I'm not necessarily suggesting that there is a polymorphism

> or mutation there -- there certainly could be as it is the most

> common genetic mutation on the planet -- but rather that genetics

> plus supplements might be placing stress on that system -- part of

> the glucose system. Are you using lots of sulphur-based

supplements?

>

> I can provide mor info on this if you would like. The Vit K is

> definitely a good place to staret.

>

> The LEF product is available at Nutricentre and is called Super K

> with K2.

>

> Hugs,

> Theresa

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nikki,

Let me just caution that there are quite a number of causes of neonatal

jaundice, certainly not just G6PDH – the most typical reasons include mother-child

blood type or Rh incompatibility (which is why the Direct Coombs test is so

important).  Neonatal jaundice is not uncommon at all.  For me, the G6PDH issue

is in the back of my mind because Lulu's Direct Coombs test was negative, she

is of Middle Eastern descent, at the end of treatment for the neonatal jaundice

she had macrocytic anemia which may have been caused by hemolysis -- so there

are several clues that make me wonder if a G6PDH mutation is a possibility for

her. I’ve never had it checked because I just am not sure about it. It

could very well be simply a metabolic inhibition – I’m trying to

work that one out.  Because she was adopted, it makes things more of a mystery –

the medical documents are complete, but we weren’t there, and it was done

in a third world country, so not everything was checked. So I just want to

caution you about the neonatal jaundice connection here. I don’t want to

raise a red flag if it’s not actually there.

There are quite a few sulphur-containing foods (onions

& coconut milk/oil have the highest amounts) of course, but sulphur-containing supplements/chelators that are

typically used in autism can include the following: Taurine,

Glutathione, NAC, SAMe, Magnesium Sulfate, Glucosamine Sulfate, Chondroitin Sulfate,

MSM, ALA , Milk Thistle, DMPS, DMSA,  Heparin.

The thing is that sulphur is everywhere, in

all manner of food, and your body needs sulphur groups in order to function, as

Owens so wisely keeps reminding us.  It needs lots of sulphur groups, in

fact.  So the key here is to strike a balance – limiting , but not

necessarily cutting things out entirely.  Remember that it is only high-dose sulphur-based products that would

be a problem in terms of inhibiting the G6PDH enzyme (unless there is a severe

genetic mutation in the G6PDH gene, and by now you would already know that

– it would be obvious).  So under certain circumstances, you have to

strike a delicate balance with your supplements and chelation agents.   

In these cases, it is often very important

to supplement with NADH. As I said before, it's important to understand the

connection between G6PDH, NADH and glutathione, and I don’t think I

explained that well enough.  Any inhibition of G6PDH enzymatic activity will create

problems with recycling glutathione – that is a given. Glucose-6-phosphate

dehydrogenase (G6PD) is an enzyme in a pathway that supplies energy to a number

of different cells, most notably to red blood cells. It does this by maintaining

the level of the co-enzyme NADPH.  NADPH in turn maintains the level of

glutathione in these cells, protecting them against oxidative damage. NADPH is NADH

plus a phosphate group, and if you supplement with NADH – as many DAN!

docs do, and as Dr. Yasko does, this will help with glutathione recycling, even

if you have a G6PDH enzyme that is not working at optimal levels. So if you are

supplementing with lots of glutathione or sulphur donors, you really do need to

be adding in some NADH. 

So if I were you, I would look at three

issues – think about pulling back a bit on sulphur donors, think about

adding in NADH,  and look at some of the other ways that G6PDH can be inhibited/increased. 

This is what we are doing with Lulu – we added in 5 mg daily of NADH, cut

back on glutathione to ½ dose daily, started rotating ProEFA and ProDHA daily

instead of giving both every day, added in 1,000 IUs Vit D (we live in the north

with little sun and she has all the VDR mutations, so she may actually need

more than this, I’m not sure), lowered the dose of Vit C, worked hard on reducing

copper (she had very high copper and low zinc), worked on thyroid issues (she

had abnormal T3 and T4), work on glucose regulation issues.  These are the

things that we needed to really look at for her, and that we are now working

on.

Things that inhibit G6PDH activity:

Sulphur products

Fatty Acids (EFAs)

Cortisol

Stress (produces cortisol)

Copper

Vitamin C in very high doses

Vitamin K3

DHEA

Low thyroid hormones

Things that increase G6PDH activity:

High carbohydrate diet

Insulin

Adequate Vitamin D

Adrenal / thyroid support

Estrogen and related growth factors

EGF & PDGF

NADH does not increase G6PDH activity, but it does take the burden off

it if it is inhibited, providing NAD+ for numerous reactions.

Hope this helps and clarifies concerning my

understanding of these issues. They are complex, and I don’t entirely

have a handle on them, but am working on better understanding it all.

Hugs,

Theresa

> >

> > Nikki,

> >

> > The nose bleeds and easy bruising sound to me like a problem

with

> > G6PDH. I'm not necessarily suggesting that there is a

polymorphism

> > or mutation there -- there certainly could be as it is the

most

> > common genetic mutation on the planet -- but rather that

genetics

> > plus supplements might be placing stress on that system --

part of

> > the glucose system. Are you using lots of sulphur-based

> supplements?

> >

> > I can provide mor info on this if you would like. The Vit K

is

> > definitely a good place to staret.

> >

> > The LEF product is available at Nutricentre and is called

Super K

> > with K2.

> >

> > Hugs,

> > Theresa

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa, thanks for the speedy reply!!!

> > > Let me just caution that there are quite a number of causes of neonatal> jaundice, certainly not just G6PDH – the most typical reasons include> mother-child blood type or Rh incompatibility (which is why the Direct> Coombs test is so important). Neonatal jaundice is not uncommon at all.

have not heard of this test, what is it and when is it done?>

.. So I just want to caution you about the neonatal> jaundice connection here. I don't want to raise a red flag if it's not> actually there.

Thats ok, will probably never know if it was the Vit K, just me getting cross again about what the NHS does for the good of the herd without considering the individual child, ie - re vaccines etc!!!> > > > There are quite a few sulphur-containing foods (onions & coconut milk/oil> have the highest amounts) of course, but sulphur-containing> supplements/chelators that are typically used in autism can include the> following: Taurine, Glutathione, NAC, SAMe, Magnesium Sulfate, Glucosamine> Sulfate, Chondroitin Sulfate, MSM, ALA , Milk Thistle, DMPS, DMSA, Heparin.

Greg only has onions intermittently when he can steal a bit whilst i'm cooking, but from your list of supps, one i forgot about is he does have regular epsom salt baths (silly me!) and these still sometimes really energise him, not good just before bedtime! He would persumably be getting quite a high sulphur dose from these?> > > > > The thing is that sulphur is everywhere, in all manner of food, and your> body needs sulphur groups in order to function, as Owens so wisely> keeps reminding us. It needs lots of sulphur groups, in fact. So the key> here is to strike a balance – limiting , but not necessarily cutting things> out entirely. Remember that it is only high-dose sulphur-based products> that would be a problem in terms of inhibiting the G6PDH enzyme (unless> there is a severe genetic mutation in the G6PDH gene, and by now you would> already know that – it would be obvious).

I feel we may have induced some sort of problem with this enzyme with the high dose vit C protocol, and also at the same time dosing quite high with CLO plus the epsom salt baths?

> > > > In these cases, it is often very important to supplement with NADH. As I> said before, it's important to understand the connection between G6PDH, NADH> and glutathione, and I don't think I explained that well enough. Any> inhibition of G6PDH enzymatic activity will create problems with recycling> glutathione – that is a given. Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) is> an enzyme in a pathway that supplies energy to a number of different cells,> most notably to red blood cells. It does this by maintaining the level of> the co-enzyme NADPH. NADPH in turn maintains the level of glutathione in> these cells, protecting them against oxidative damage. NADPH is NADH plus a> phosphate group, and if you supplement with NADH – as many DAN! docs do, and> as Dr. Yasko does, this will help with glutathione recycling, even if you> have a G6PDH enzyme that is not working at optimal levels. So if you are> supplementing with lots of glutathione or sulphur donors, you really do need> to be adding in some NADH. >

Not supplimenting glutathione as not low but maybe need to cut back on the baths and possible try NADH as well as giving the Vit K a go plus lowering EFAs and possible add in some Vit D.> > > So if I were you, I would look at three issues – think about pulling back a> bit on sulphur donors, think about adding in NADH, and look at some of the> other ways that G6PDH can be inhibited/increased. This is what we are doing> with Lulu – we added in 5 mg daily of NADH, cut back on glutathione to ½> dose daily, started rotating ProEFA and ProDHA daily instead of giving both> every day, added in 1,000 IUs Vit D (we live in the north with little sun> and she has all the VDR mutations, so she may actually need more than this,> I'm not sure), lowered the dose of Vit C, worked hard on reducing copper> (she had very high copper and low zinc), worked on thyroid issues (she had> abnormal T3 and T4), work on glucose regulation issues. These are the> things that we needed to really look at for her, and that we are now working

we also have the high copper/low zinc thing going on, plus slightly elevated calcium in blood

> on.> > > > Things that inhibit G6PDH activity:> > * Sulphur products > * Fatty Acids (EFAs)> * Cortisol > * Stress (produces cortisol) > * Copper > * Vitamin C in very high doses > * Vitamin K3 > * DHEA > * Low thyroid hormones > > Things that increase G6PDH activity:> > * High carbohydrate diet > * Insulin > * Adequate Vitamin D > * Adrenal / thyroid support> * Estrogen and related growth factors EGF & PDGF > > > > NADH does not increase G6PDH activity, but it does take the burden off it if> it is inhibited, providing NAD+ for numerous reactions.> > > > Hope this helps and clarifies concerning my understanding of these issues.> They are complex, and I don't entirely have a handle on them, but am working> on better understanding it all

I think you have much more of a handle on this than me!!! Thanks for your help, will keep you posted, one step at a time, Vit K first then see how we get on.

Nikki

>

[Guest guest]

Nikki,

Great idea to start with the Vit K. I fyou add Vit D3, they shoudl

help to put the calcium in the bones and teeth where it belongs.

Hope all goes well!

Oh yeas, Direct Coombs test is done at the time of the jaundice or

at birth.

Hugs,

Theresa

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Theresa, thanks for the speedy reply!!!

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Let me just caution that there are quite a number of causes of

> neonatal

> > jaundice, certainly not just G6PDH – the most typical reasons

> include

> > mother-child blood type or Rh incompatibility (which is why the

Direct

> > Coombs test is so important). Neonatal jaundice is not uncommon

at

> all.

>

> have not heard of this test, what is it and when is it done?

> >

>

> . So I just want to caution you about the neonatal

> > jaundice connection here. I don't want to raise a red flag if

> it's not

> > actually there.

>

> Thats ok, will probably never know if it was the Vit K, just me

getting

> cross again about what the NHS does for the good of the herd

without

> considering the individual child, ie - re vaccines etc!!!

> >

> >

> >

> > There are quite a few sulphur-containing foods (onions & coconut

> milk/oil

> > have the highest amounts) of course, but sulphur-containing

> > supplements/chelators that are typically used in autism can

include

> the

> > following: Taurine, Glutathione, NAC, SAMe, Magnesium Sulfate,

> Glucosamine

> > Sulfate, Chondroitin Sulfate, MSM, ALA , Milk Thistle, DMPS,

DMSA,

> Heparin.

>

> Greg only has onions intermittently when he can steal a bit whilst

i'm

> cooking, but from your list of supps, one i forgot about is he

does have

> regular epsom salt baths (silly me!) and these still sometimes

really

> energise him, not good just before bedtime! He would persumably be

> getting quite a high sulphur dose from these?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The thing is that sulphur is everywhere, in all manner of food,

and

> your

> > body needs sulphur groups in order to function, as Owens so

> wisely

> > keeps reminding us. It needs lots of sulphur groups, in fact. So

the

> key

> > here is to strike a balance – limiting , but not necessarily

> cutting things

> > out entirely. Remember that it is only high-dose sulphur-based

> products

> > that would be a problem in terms of inhibiting the G6PDH enzyme

> (unless

> > there is a severe genetic mutation in the G6PDH gene, and by now

you

> would

> > already know that – it would be obvious).

>

> I feel we may have induced some sort of problem with this enzyme

with

> the high dose vit C protocol, and also at the same time dosing

quite

> high with CLO plus the epsom salt baths?

>

> >

> >

> >

> > In these cases, it is often very important to supplement with

NADH. As

> I

> > said before, it's important to understand the connection between

> G6PDH, NADH

> > and glutathione, and I don't think I explained that well enough.

> Any

> > inhibition of G6PDH enzymatic activity will create problems with

> recycling

> > glutathione – that is a given. Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase

> (G6PD) is

> > an enzyme in a pathway that supplies energy to a number of

different

> cells,

> > most notably to red blood cells. It does this by maintaining the

level

> of

> > the co-enzyme NADPH. NADPH in turn maintains the level of

glutathione

> in

> > these cells, protecting them against oxidative damage. NADPH is

NADH

> plus a

> > phosphate group, and if you supplement with NADH – as many DAN!

> docs do, and

> > as Dr. Yasko does, this will help with glutathione recycling,

even if

> you

> > have a G6PDH enzyme that is not working at optimal levels. So if

you

> are

> > supplementing with lots of glutathione or sulphur donors, you

really

> do need

> > to be adding in some NADH.

> >

>

> Not supplimenting glutathione as not low but maybe need to cut

back on

> the baths and possible try NADH as well as giving the Vit K a go

plus

> lowering EFAs and possible add in some Vit D.

> >

> >

> > So if I were you, I would look at three issues – think about

> pulling back a

> > bit on sulphur donors, think about adding in NADH, and look at

some of

> the

> > other ways that G6PDH can be inhibited/increased. This is what

we are

> doing

> > with Lulu – we added in 5 mg daily of NADH, cut back on

> glutathione to ½

> > dose daily, started rotating ProEFA and ProDHA daily instead of

giving

> both

> > every day, added in 1,000 IUs Vit D (we live in the north with

little

> sun

> > and she has all the VDR mutations, so she may actually need more

than

> this,

> > I'm not sure), lowered the dose of Vit C, worked hard on reducing

> copper

> > (she had very high copper and low zinc), worked on thyroid

issues (she

> had

> > abnormal T3 and T4), work on glucose regulation issues. These

are the

> > things that we needed to really look at for her, and that we are

now

> working

>

> we also have the high copper/low zinc thing going on, plus slightly

> elevated calcium in blood

>

> > on.

> >

> >

> >

> > Things that inhibit G6PDH activity:

> >

> > * Sulphur products

> > * Fatty Acids (EFAs)

> > * Cortisol

> > * Stress (produces cortisol)

> > * Copper

> > * Vitamin C in very high doses

> > * Vitamin K3

> > * DHEA

> > * Low thyroid hormones

> >

> > Things that increase G6PDH activity:

> >

> > * High carbohydrate diet

> > * Insulin

> > * Adequate Vitamin D

> > * Adrenal / thyroid support

> > * Estrogen and related growth factors EGF & PDGF

> >

> >

> >

> > NADH does not increase G6PDH activity, but it does take the

burden off

> it if

> > it is inhibited, providing NAD+ for numerous reactions.

> >

> >

> >

> > Hope this helps and clarifies concerning my understanding of

these

> issues.

> > They are complex, and I don't entirely have a handle on them, but

> am working

> > on better understanding it all

>

> I think you have much more of a handle on this than me!!! Thanks

for

> your help, will keep you posted, one step at a time, Vit K first

then

> see how we get on.

>

> Nikki []

>

> >

>