Re: O.T. Psyches, independant assessments

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

I think it depends on the complexity of the child's needs and who is on your side and who isn't. Our SLT (an NHS employee) explicitly supported 's ABA programme so we have no need for a private SLT. 's OT needs are not sufficient at this point to warrant expert need in that area, thus no OT is required. If your son needs OT and it is not being provided, then you will need an expert opinion to support that fact, the same with SLT. We have only hired a private Ed Psych and will hire a barrister if we go to tribunal. As far as hiring an Developmental Psychologist or Child Psychologist, I would think this would only be necessary in the event that the dx was being challenged or if there were emotional problems separate from the diagnosis of ASD. Perhaps someone else can comment on this.

The barrister, from what I understand, is needed because the LEA have barristers on their side and your team (and you) may not be competent in legal matters to fight out the legal technicalities of the tribunal. It is very costly, indeed, although we have not been charged more than the *standard rate* for barristers, psychologists, etc. We do pay travel expenses, etc. Apparently the going rate for a tribunal is expected to be between £5 and £20K depending on the case!!!

I don't know if this is helpful to you at all, just some ramblings. Best of luck to you, Vicky. It's so difficult determining where to spend the money and where not to. Oh, also, in one instance we took advice and were told to hire private SLT, OT, etc but we determined that it just wasn't necessary in our case. Our ABA consultant will also attend the tribunal so we would have a consultant, barrister, and Ed Psych with us. (Fingers crossed that we don't have to go to tribunal though.!!)

Take care,

Darla

In a message dated 20/09/2006 10:39:10 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganV@... writes:

Does anyone know how solcitors work out how many independent assessments are needed for a tribunal.Our solicitor is saying as well as the SLT we will need Ed Psyche, Psyche and O.T.Trying not to just throw money all over the place here and wondering why a Psyche, no one is arguing 's condition or dx, I understand the need for and ed psyche because we are arguing his educational provision, also what can an O.T. bring to the table?Apparently they will all have to visit him in school and observe, this is surely going to be really expensive because they will want far more than the standard hourly rate plus travelling expenses, and I don't even know where they are travelling from as yet.I honestly thought SLT and Psyche would have been enough, also been told we will need a barrister, why?TIAVicky

[Guest guest]

Hi Darla, I just thought the solicitor was qualified enough for a tribunal, but she says we need the barrister on top!

I never mentioned OT for because at this stage in his development I don't see where it would fit in. He has no dyspraxia, much the opposite, extremely physical and perfect balance and I haven't noticed any problem with fine motor skills, he handles cutlery well enough, handwriting is not an issue yet but maybe in the future, hopefully really.

I'm shocked your SLT supported ABA, here SLT work hand in glove with education in so much as agreeing less on every case.

All the solicitor has said by way of fees is to put aside the price of a small car, think she must consider a ferrari pretty small then, lol, but that didn't include the independent assessments so not being of limitless funds I really have to look at where I can cut costs and thought I would run it past the group, before she starts barking at me "It's not as simple as that"!

So if enough people respond I can know what is reasonable and justified.

Thanks

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Yes your right about the ed psyche but solicitor is asking for a Psyche as well as ed psyche 2 seperate people, no one on either side is arguing 's dx or where he is on the spectrum so wondering what we need it for.

The ed psyche hopefully will be able to prove his current school does not meet his needs, I know the LEA ed psyche won't agree with us so I have no problem getting an independent but wondering why that wont be enough with the SLT.

Thanks

Vicky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/09/2006 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganV@... writes:

>>>>Hi Darla, I just thought the solicitor was qualified enough for a tribunal, but she says we need the barrister on top!>>>>

EEEE.......I can see the money running out the door....I don't understand why both are needed. The only thing we were advised is that the LEA will have barristers in attendance, hence we need barristers...tit for tat. This may sound stupid, but what has your solicitor done for you? Are you asking for home-program (ABA, VB) or a school?

>>>>>>I never mentioned OT for because at this stage in his development I don't see where it would fit in. He has no dyspraxia, much the opposite, extremely physical and perfect balance and I haven't noticed any problem with fine motor skills, he handles cutlery well enough, handwriting is not an issue yet but maybe in the future, hopefully really.>>>>>>

Yes, then I agree, why on earth would you need a private OT report????

I'm shocked your SLT supported ABA, here SLT work hand in glove with education in so much as agreeing less on every case.

Yes, well if I told you the whole story of our SLT, you would be shocked. Her job was put on the line because she helped us. She's the one who told us *off the record* that was autistic and to get him help ASAP. Then the LEA got wind of it and threatened her job, threatend me, and threatened the diagnosing paediatrician BEFORE OUR DIAGNOSTIC APPOINTMENT. Can you believe that crap? We wrote letters of highest accolades to everyone in power supporting the SLT and had a couple of others do the same. Anyway, that all seems to have blown over now, thankfully.

>>>>All the solicitor has said by way of fees is to put aside the price of a small car, think she must consider a ferrari pretty small then, lol, but that didn't include the independent assessments so not being of limitless funds I really have to look at where I can cut costs and thought I would run it past the group, before she starts barking at me "It's not as simple as that"!

So if enough people respond I can know what is reasonable and justified.>>>

Yeah, that sounds like a good plan. I think it sounds like the others psych and the OT is a bit of overkill. I just can't see why you'd need them. It is so difficult making these decisions.

Take care,

Darla

[Guest guest]

We are challenging speech therapy provision and school placement.

I do understand that this is all going to cost and am delighted there are legal people out there to employ for the job, but I do wonder if I'm being reccomended people all over the place uneccesarily.

I find it amazing that LEA's employ barristers for this kind of thing what happened to the funding crisis? Their own blurb tells us a solicitor isn't necessary and yet they are armed to the teeth.

The feedback I have already on 's statement is that it's so full of specific misleading wording that you wonder if they are using solicitors to draw them up!

Last time I had a similar issue with my other boy we had the same solicitor and my sons Social Worker was so on our side the solicitor thought she was sure to get the chop, anyway they caved in very quickly and social worker was moved, so your SLT has really stuck her neck out, that's fantastic, when their own people agree they don't have a leg to stand on.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky

The Solicitor I heard speak recently about tribunals said the Ed

Psych's report is the most important piece of evidence. The report

will be not on 's diagnosis but on his individual needs and

whether his current school is meeting those needs adequately, and if

not, whether your preferred school would do. That report therefore is

the basis of whether or not you proceed to tribunal, i.e. if they say

he is fine where he is there is no point in spending any more money.

It is therefore the most important report you can get to support your

case, in my opinion and it is unlikely you will win without it, unless

the LEA's Ed Psych supports you rather than them (pretty unlikely I

would have thought, if they want to keep their job)

just my opinion

[Guest guest]

Vicky,

It may be worthwhile to get in touch with IPSEA (Independent Panel

for Special Education Advice)

England and Wales (freephone):

0800 0184016

Mon to Thu 10--4 and 7--9;

Fri 10--1 and 7--9

During school holidays times are reduced. Please ring for

availability.

Scotland (ISEA):

0131 454 0096

0131 454 0144

They should be able to give advise on who is needed and why ?

Hope this helps

Vidushi

London

>

> Yes your right about the ed psyche but solicitor is asking

for a

> Psyche as well as ed psyche 2 seperate people, no one on either

side is arguing

> 's dx or where he is on the spectrum so wondering what we need

it for.

> The ed psyche hopefully will be able to prove his current school

does not

> meet his needs, I know the LEA ed psyche won't agree with us so I

have no

> problem getting an independent but wondering why that wont be

enough with the SLT.

> Thanks

> Vicky

>

[Guest guest]

Not disagreeing with , just adding that for our tribunal (which

we have just won BTW) both the Ed Psych and the SaLT (and to some

extent, the OT) reports specified what kind of provision Philip

would need.

We had both Ed Psych and SaLT as witnesses and I would say that

whilst the Ed Psych report was more hard hitting in terms of

explaining Philip's impairments and their impact upon his life, the

SaLT was far more articulate about this when asked for comment

during the tribunal. She was very, very sharp, knew exactly what

the panel wanted to hear, very politically astute.

Vicky I have some notes that were useful during our tribunal -

helped us to focus (we represented ourselves) - if you want I can

send them to you? The notes pertain to the legal basis on which we

were seeking appropriate provision for our child and show how we

used our reports to back this up with evidence about Philip's

specific circumstances.

Our tribunal was only for a statutory assessment (am sure we will

end up back in tribunal again over provision in statement) but the

legal principles and how you evidence your claim are the same

whether you are asking for stat assessment or change in statement or

arguing over provision.

If you want the notes, you can e mail me off list at zoet@

consultancynorthwest .com (no spaces)

Zoe x

>

> Hi Vicky

> The Solicitor I heard speak recently about tribunals said the Ed

> Psych's report is the most important piece of evidence. The

report

> will be not on 's diagnosis but on his individual needs and

> whether his current school is meeting those needs adequately, and

if

> not, whether your preferred school would do. That report

therefore is

> the basis of whether or not you proceed to tribunal, i.e. if they

say

> he is fine where he is there is no point in spending any more

money.

> It is therefore the most important report you can get to support

your

> case, in my opinion and it is unlikely you will win without it,

unless

> the LEA's Ed Psych supports you rather than them (pretty unlikely

I

> would have thought, if they want to keep their job)

> just my opinion

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would suggest asking the solicitor to be more specific about why

the Psych and OT inputs are needed.........is difficult for an

outsider to comment on that when we dont know the full details of

what is being said in your case statement.

Can you ask what it is that the solicitor hopes to gain by you

employing these extra people and getting extra reports.....what

fresh evidence will they be bringing to support which part of your

case, or how will they strengthen your case if its not new evidence?

From what you are saying, it doesnt seem OT is relevant but then I

dont know whats in your case statement.

Whether or not you need Psych will depend on whether 's autism

impacts upon his mental health. This should be mentioned in your Ed

Psych report, but not in much detail. However, if, for example, the

Ed Psych has identified areas where there is a 'clinical cuase for

concern' then it may be appropriate to get further detail on

this....and that is where the Psych would come in.

You will need to weigh up whether you think you have enough evidence

to support your case without additional evidence from Psych and OT.

Its hard isnt it because you want to do the best for our child and

none of us are bloody legal experts and we shouldnt even be in this

position in the first place.

Hope this helps

Zoe

>

> In a message dated 20/09/2006 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time,

MaddiganV@...

> writes:

>

> >>>>Hi Darla, I just thought the solicitor was qualified enough

for a

> tribunal, but she says we need the barrister on top!>>>>

>

> EEEE.......I can see the money running out the door....I don't

understand

> why both are needed. The only thing we were advised is that the

LEA will have

> barristers in attendance, hence we need barristers...tit for

tat. This may

> sound stupid, but what has your solicitor done for you? Are you

asking for

> home-program (ABA, VB) or a school?

>

> >>>>>>I never mentioned OT for because at this stage in his

development

> I don't see where it would fit in. He has no dyspraxia, much the

opposite,

> extremely physical and perfect balance and I haven't noticed any

problem with

> fine motor skills, he handles cutlery well enough, handwriting is

not an

> issue yet but maybe in the future, hopefully really.>>>>>>

>

>

> Yes, then I agree, why on earth would you need a private OT

report????

>

> I'm shocked your SLT supported ABA, here SLT work hand in glove

with

> education in so much as agreeing less on every case.

>

> Yes, well if I told you the whole story of our SLT, you would be

shocked.

> Her job was put on the line because she helped us. She's the one

who told us

> *off the record* that was autistic and to get him help

ASAP. Then the

> LEA got wind of it and threatened her job, threatend me, and

threatened the

> diagnosing paediatrician BEFORE OUR DIAGNOSTIC APPOINTMENT. Can

you believe

> that crap? We wrote letters of highest accolades to everyone in

power

> supporting the SLT and had a couple of others do the same.

Anyway, that all seems to

> have blown over now, thankfully.

>

> >>>>All the solicitor has said by way of fees is to put aside the

price of a

> small car, think she must consider a ferrari pretty small then,

lol, but

> that didn't include the independent assessments so not being of

limitless funds

> I really have to look at where I can cut costs and thought I

would run it

> past the group, before she starts barking at me " It's not as

simple as that " !

> So if enough people respond I can know what is reasonable and

justified.>>>

>

> Yeah, that sounds like a good plan. I think it sounds like the

others psych

> and the OT is a bit of overkill. I just can't see why you'd need

them. It

> is so difficult making these decisions.

>

> Take care,

> Darla

>

[Guest guest]

Congratulations

Zoe! Wow loads of good news from tribunals at the moment! Sorry to hear it’s

just for statutory assessment but well done anyway and good luck with all the

rest of it. SARA

Re: O.T. Psyches, independant assessments

Not disagreeing

with , just adding that for our tribunal (which

we have just won BTW) both the Ed Psych and the SaLT (and to some

extent, the OT) reports specified what kind of provision Philip

would need.

We had both Ed Psych and SaLT as witnesses and I would say that

whilst the Ed Psych report was more hard hitting in terms of

explaining Philip's impairments and their impact upon his life, the

SaLT was far more articulate about this when asked for comment

during the tribunal. She was very, very sharp, knew exactly what

the panel wanted to hear, very politically astute.

Vicky I have some notes that were useful during our tribunal -

helped us to focus (we represented ourselves) - if you want I can

send them to you? The notes pertain to the legal basis on which we

were seeking appropriate provision for our child and show how we

used our reports to back this up with evidence about Philip's

specific circumstances.

Our tribunal was only for a statutory assessment (am sure we will

end up back in tribunal again over provision in statement) but the

legal principles and how you evidence your claim are the same

whether you are asking for stat assessment or change in statement or

arguing over provision.

If you want the notes, you can e mail me off list at zoet@

consultancynorthwest .com (no spaces)

Zoe x

>

> Hi Vicky

> The Solicitor I heard speak recently about tribunals said the Ed

> Psych's report is the most important piece of evidence. The

report

> will be not on 's diagnosis but on his individual needs and

> whether his current school is meeting those needs adequately, and

if

> not, whether your preferred school would do. That report

therefore is

> the basis of whether or not you proceed to tribunal, i.e. if they

say

> he is fine where he is there is no point in spending any more

money.

> It is therefore the most important report you can get to support

your

> case, in my opinion and it is unlikely you will win without it,

unless

> the LEA's Ed Psych supports you rather than them (pretty unlikely

I

> would have thought, if they want to keep their job)

> just my opinion

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Well done Zoe, good luck with the next battle

[Guest guest]

Thanks Zoe, will mail you, can't have too much information lol

Vicky

xx