Re: Speech probs and calcium

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 22/09/2006 10:07:44 GMT Daylight Time, moppett1@... writes:

If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling. Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long exposure to the Ca.

>>>Well if you can come up with a plan to teach that to Sam I'll try it

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to caution that calcium can be an excitotoxin,

especially when comlexed with zinc. Here is an excerpt from the

first edition of Amy Yasko's book, The Puzzle of Autism:

" Glutamate has six different types of receptors to which it can bind

in the brain. One of these receptors, the NMDA receptor, is tied to

calcium transport as its mode of action. In the case of the NMDA

receptors, the release of excess glutamate triggers an inflammatory

cascade that results in the death of neurons by the major influx of

calcium into the nerve until it results in neural cell death. Normal

levels of calcium result in normal neuron functioning. However,

excessive levels of calcium make it impossible for the neuron to

rest; the neuron continues to fire without stopping, causing the

release of inflammatory mediators, the release of more glutamate,

thus resulting in more calcium influx. The high intracellular levels

of calcium also lead to high levels of nitric oxide and

peroxynitrite, causing damage to the energy producing apparatus of

the cells. Magnesium (a second part of Dr. Rimland's protocol) is

able to modulate the calcium flow, as is zinc. However, zinc is a

double edged sword as it is also able to activate glutamate release

via the non-NMDA glutamate receptors. "

As a note, Vitamin K2 has been shown to help prevent pathological

calcium accumulation in tissues. Here's another excerpt from the

same book:

" Vitamin K reacts enzymatically with glutamate and calcium to ensure

proper placement of the calcium in bones and teeth. In addition,

vitamin K is a cofactor for the conversion of glutamate to gamma

carboxyglutamate. Lack of vitamin K would then create a cycle of

deregulation in the glutamate/calcium pathway leading to further

neurological inflammation. "

Make sure, however, to stay away from vitamian K3 -- only try K1 and

K2.

Best,

Theresa

>

> This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about speech

difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just in

case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.

>

>

> Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and

promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc at

the time used to prescribe me " Calcium Sandoz " (Sandoz being the

manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto my

voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth

programme " House " played by the British actor Hugh Laurie, there

was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several months

ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some

surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty doctor

he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior

permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again, at

the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important in

the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter who

has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium remedy

and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium

dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard " Amazing, my

voice has come back! "

>

> I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the

child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there.

Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are apparent in

autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection

escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium is

worth a try...

>

> If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get

on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling.

Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long

exposure to the Ca.

>

> Just an idea.......

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe giving magnesium directly after would help...or maybe not..I guess we won't know until someone can try this out.....

Re: Speech probs and calcium

I just wanted to caution that calcium can be an excitotoxin, especially when comlexed with zinc. Here is an excerpt from the first edition of Amy Yasko's book, The Puzzle of Autism:"Glutamate has six different types of receptors to which it can bind in the brain. One of these receptors, the NMDA receptor, is tied to calcium transport as its mode of action. In the case of the NMDA receptors, the release of excess glutamate triggers an inflammatory cascade that results in the death of neurons by the major influx of calcium into the nerve until it results in neural cell death. Normal levels of calcium result in normal neuron functioning. However, excessive levels of calcium make it impossible for the neuron to rest; the neuron continues to fire without stopping, causing the release of inflammatory mediators, the release of more glutamate, thus resulting in more calcium influx. The high intracellular levels of calcium also lead to high levels of nitric oxide and peroxynitrite, causing damage to the energy producing apparatus of the cells. Magnesium (a second part of Dr. Rimland's protocol) is able to modulate the calcium flow, as is zinc. However, zinc is a double edged sword as it is also able to activate glutamate release via the non-NMDA glutamate receptors."As a note, Vitamin K2 has been shown to help prevent pathological calcium accumulation in tissues. Here's another excerpt from the same book:"Vitamin K reacts enzymatically with glutamate and calcium to ensure proper placement of the calcium in bones and teeth. In addition, vitamin K is a cofactor for the conversion of glutamate to gamma carboxyglutamate. Lack of vitamin K would then create a cycle of deregulation in the glutamate/calcium pathway leading to further neurological inflammation." Make sure, however, to stay away from vitamian K3 -- only try K1 and K2. Best, Theresa>> This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about speech difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just in case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.> > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc at the time used to prescribe me "Calcium Sandoz" (Sandoz being the manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto my voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth programme " House" played by the British actor Hugh Laurie, there was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several months ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty doctor he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again, at the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important in the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter who has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium remedy and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard "Amazing, my voice has come back!" > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there. Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are apparent in autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium is worth a try...> > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling. Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long exposure to the Ca.> > Just an idea.......> > >

[Guest guest]

Good information, . Wanted to say that although calcium can be an excitoxin, the calcium supplements were a big hit here, ridding us early on of ADHD behavior and precipitated increased sleep and stopped the night awakenings, in other words, a God send. So, not always clear about when or if to use it.

We also got great improvement from Vitamin K1 and K2, great stuff. Vitamin K is made in the stomach, yeast eats it up, so most of our kids are deficient in it. Life Extension makes a great K1 and K2 combined product that we have used with great benefit. Yes, K3 is the synthetic version and thought to be toxic, unlike K1 and K2.

Re: Speech probs and calcium

I just wanted to caution that calcium can be an excitotoxin, especially when comlexed with zinc. Here is an excerpt from the first edition of Amy Yasko's book, The Puzzle of Autism:"Glutamate has six different types of receptors to which it can bind in the brain. One of these receptors, the NMDA receptor, is tied to calcium transport as its mode of action. In the case of the NMDA receptors, the release of excess glutamate triggers an inflammatory cascade that results in the death of neurons by the major influx of calcium into the nerve until it results in neural cell death. Normal levels of calcium result in normal neuron functioning. However, excessive levels of calcium make it impossible for the neuron to rest; the neuron continues to fire without stopping, causing the release of inflammatory mediators, the release of more glutamate, thus resulting in more calcium influx. The high intracellular levels of calcium also lead to high levels of nitric oxide and peroxynitrite, causing damage to the energy producing apparatus of the cells. Magnesium (a second part of Dr. Rimland's protocol) is able to modulate the calcium flow, as is zinc. However, zinc is a double edged sword as it is also able to activate glutamate release via the non-NMDA glutamate receptors."As a note, Vitamin K2 has been shown to help prevent pathological calcium accumulation in tissues. Here's another excerpt from the same book:"Vitamin K reacts enzymatically with glutamate and calcium to ensure proper placement of the calcium in bones and teeth. In addition, vitamin K is a cofactor for the conversion of glutamate to gamma carboxyglutamate. Lack of vitamin K would then create a cycle of deregulation in the glutamate/calcium pathway leading to further neurological inflammation." Make sure, however, to stay away from vitamian K3 -- only try K1 and K2. Best, Theresa>> This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about speech difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just in case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.> > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc at the time used to prescribe me "Calcium Sandoz" (Sandoz being the manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto my voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth programme " House" played by the British actor Hugh Laurie, there was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several months ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty doctor he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again, at the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important in the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter who has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium remedy and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard "Amazing, my voice has come back!" > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there. Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are apparent in autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium is worth a try...> > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling. Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long exposure to the Ca.> > Just an idea.......> > >

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Yes, the K1 and K2 are extremely important for calcium utilization.

A listmate from another list just sent me this very interesting link

to an article on this subject --

http://gutresearch.com/v1.html . I think the author is involved in

the SCD scene somehow.

It might be of interest to you.

Best,

Theresa

> >

> > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about

speech

> difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just

in

> case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.

> >

> >

> > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and

> promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc

at

> the time used to prescribe me " Calcium Sandoz " (Sandoz being the

> manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto

my

> voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth

> programme " House " played by the British actor Hugh Laurie,

there

> was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several

months

> ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some

> surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty

doctor

> he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior

> permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again,

at

> the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important

in

> the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter

who

> has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium

remedy

> and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium

> dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard " Amazing,

my

> voice has come back! "

> >

> > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the

> child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there.

> Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are

apparent in

> autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection

> escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium

is

> worth a try...

> >

> > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you

get

> on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling.

> Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box

long

> exposure to the Ca.

> >

> > Just an idea.......

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, , this is a great article, thanks for sharing it.

Re: Speech probs and calcium

Hey ,Yes, the K1 and K2 are extremely important for calcium utilization. A listmate from another list just sent me this very interesting link to an article on this subject -- http://gutresearch.com/v1.html . I think the author is involved in the SCD scene somehow.It might be of interest to you.Best,Theresa> >> > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about speech > difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just in > case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.> > > > > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and > promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc at > the time used to prescribe me "Calcium Sandoz" (Sandoz being the > manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto my > voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth > programme " House" played by the British actor Hugh Laurie, there > was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several months > ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some > surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty doctor > he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior > permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again, at > the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important in > the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter who > has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium remedy > and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium > dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard "Amazing, my > voice has come back!" > > > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the > child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there. > Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are apparent in > autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection > escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium is > worth a try...> > > > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get > on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling. > Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long > exposure to the Ca.> > > > Just an idea.......> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Theresa - this article is very informative. I just didn't know how important vitamin K is !!

Will this article be available for other parents new to Dr. Amy - perhaps in a Europe Yasko file?

Re: Speech probs and calcium

Hey ,Yes, the K1 and K2 are extremely important for calcium utilization. A listmate from another list just sent me this very interesting link to an article on this subject -- http://gutresearch.com/v1.html . I think the author is involved in the SCD scene somehow.It might be of interest to you.Best,Theresa> >> > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about speech > difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just in > case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.> > > > > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and > promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc at > the time used to prescribe me "Calcium Sandoz" (Sandoz being the > manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto my > voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth > programme " House" played by the British actor Hugh Laurie, there > was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several months > ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some > surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty doctor > he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior > permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again, at > the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important in > the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter who > has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium remedy > and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium > dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard "Amazing, my > voice has come back!" > > > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the > child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there. > Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are apparent in > autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection > escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium is > worth a try...> > > > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you get > on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling. > Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box long > exposure to the Ca.> > > > Just an idea.......> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Have been following the threads on this topic and am interested in

trying my son on Vitamin K1 and K2.

You mentioned Life Extension, is this the product?

www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00604.htm

super K With K2 90 Softgels Item Catalog Number 00604

Regards Kay.

-- In Autism Treatment , " Cochran "

<Ladyshrink111@...> wrote:

>

> Good information, . Wanted to say that although calcium can

be an excitoxin, the calcium supplements were a big hit here,

ridding us early on of ADHD behavior and precipitated increased

sleep and stopped the night awakenings, in other words, a God send.

So, not always clear about when or if to use it.

>

> We also got great improvement from Vitamin K1 and K2, great stuff.

Vitamin K is made in the stomach, yeast eats it up, so most of our

kids are deficient in it. Life Extension makes a great K1 and K2

combined product that we have used with great benefit. Yes, K3 is

the synthetic version and thought to be toxic, unlike K1 and K2.

>

>

> Re: Speech probs and calcium

>

>

> I just wanted to caution that calcium can be an excitotoxin,

> especially when comlexed with zinc. Here is an excerpt from the

> first edition of Amy Yasko's book, The Puzzle of Autism:

>

> " Glutamate has six different types of receptors to which it can

bind

> in the brain. One of these receptors, the NMDA receptor, is tied

to

> calcium transport as its mode of action. In the case of the NMDA

> receptors, the release of excess glutamate triggers an

inflammatory

> cascade that results in the death of neurons by the major influx

of

> calcium into the nerve until it results in neural cell death.

Normal

> levels of calcium result in normal neuron functioning. However,

> excessive levels of calcium make it impossible for the neuron to

> rest; the neuron continues to fire without stopping, causing the

> release of inflammatory mediators, the release of more

glutamate,

> thus resulting in more calcium influx. The high intracellular

levels

> of calcium also lead to high levels of nitric oxide and

> peroxynitrite, causing damage to the energy producing apparatus

of

> the cells. Magnesium (a second part of Dr. Rimland's protocol)

is

> able to modulate the calcium flow, as is zinc. However, zinc is

a

> double edged sword as it is also able to activate glutamate

release

> via the non-NMDA glutamate receptors. "

>

> As a note, Vitamin K2 has been shown to help prevent

pathological

> calcium accumulation in tissues. Here's another excerpt from the

> same book:

>

> " Vitamin K reacts enzymatically with glutamate and calcium to

ensure

> proper placement of the calcium in bones and teeth. In addition,

> vitamin K is a cofactor for the conversion of glutamate to gamma

> carboxyglutamate. Lack of vitamin K would then create a cycle of

> deregulation in the glutamate/calcium pathway leading to further

> neurological inflammation. "

>

> Make sure, however, to stay away from vitamian K3 -- only try K1

and

> K2.

>

> Best,

> Theresa

>

> >

> > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about

speech

> difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here just

in

> case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.

> >

> >

> > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds and

> promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian doc

at

> the time used to prescribe me " Calcium Sandoz " (Sandoz being the

> manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and presto

my

> voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical sleuth

> programme " House " played by the British actor Hugh Laurie,

there

> was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several

months

> ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from some

> surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the naughty

doctor

> he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without prior

> permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But again,

at

> the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is important

in

> the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my daughter

who

> has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium

remedy

> and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled calcium

> dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I heard " Amazing,

my

> voice has come back! "

> >

> > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that the

> child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just there.

> Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are

apparent in

> autism (think this is related to glutamate but the connection

> escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved calcium

is

> worth a try...

> >

> > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how you

get

> on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of gurgling.

> Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice box

long

> exposure to the Ca.

> >

> > Just an idea.......

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Many thanks. I have ordered some today.

Louis has the frequent nose bleeds but not the bruising and he is always fighting yeast on and off. Will try a lower dose at least to begin with. Do you give it with food?

Regards

Kay.

Yes, Kay, that's it. Just posted on how it brought her wasting calcium problem under control. I had always read the signs of K deficiency of easy bruising and thought we did not need it as we never saw any signs. But K is made in the stomach and yeast eats it, so most of our kids could probably use some supplementation.

The dosage sounds high 9 mgs of K1, 1 mg of K2, but in light of the great article posted, not too much. I did research it and found that although K is a fat soluble vitamin, unlike other fat soluble vitamins, anything you don't use gets excreted, so you need to supplement daily.

Good luck,Kay,

[Guest guest]

Vitamin K is a fat soluble vitamin so it should be given with a meal in which there is the highest amount of fat. For us, that is breakfast.

We, too, started low, just squeezing a drop or two out of the capsule, wasteful but careful. But we have been up to a whole capsule for about a month or more.

Good luck,

Re: Re: Speech probs and calcium

Hi

Many thanks. I have ordered some today.

Louis has the frequent nose bleeds but not the bruising and he is always fighting yeast on and off. Will try a lower dose at least to begin with. Do you give it with food?

Regards

Kay.

Yes, Kay, that's it. Just posted on how it brought her wasting calcium problem under control. I had always read the signs of K deficiency of easy bruising and thought we did not need it as we never saw any signs. But K is made in the stomach and yeast eats it, so most of our kids could probably use some supplementation.

The dosage sounds high 9 mgs of K1, 1 mg of K2, but in light of the great article posted, not too much. I did research it and found that although K is a fat soluble vitamin, unlike other fat soluble vitamins, anything you don't use gets excreted, so you need to supplement daily.

Good luck,Kay,

[Guest guest]

---

> I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about overdose

potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in Uk it

has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does anyone

know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

Sue

[Guest guest]

Sue,

I did research this, and found that K1 and K2 present no toxicity issues. Whatever is not used, I read, is excreted daily from the body, remarkable for a fat soluble vitamin, unlike A and D, but not unlike Vitamin E, which has no toxicity even in doses as high as 10,000 IU per day.

The thing to watch out for, I read is the K3, a synthethic K, as it is toxic at too high of a dose.

The dosage in the article is high, we don't use that much, but use 9 mg of K1 and 1 mg of K2. K2 is thought to be the more biologically active and is the K that everyone is supposed to produce in their gut. I have just ordered 5 mg gel caps of K2 from Carlson laboratories and am going to try that.

If you google K, you should find what I told you, if you find anything different, I would appreciate your sharing it.

Good luck,

Re: Speech probs and calcium

---> I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about overdose potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in Uk it has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does anyone know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?Sue

[Guest guest]

Good idea, , I'll put it in the YaskoEurope files!

> > >

> > > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me about

> speech

> > difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up here

just

> in

> > case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.

> > >

> > >

> > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds

and

> > promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My Canadian

doc

> at

> > the time used to prescribe me " Calcium Sandoz " (Sandoz being

the

> > manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and

presto

> my

> > voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical

sleuth

> > programme " House " played by the British actor Hugh Laurie,

> there

> > was an episode where this calcium idea was used. ...Several

> months

> > ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently from

some

> > surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the

naughty

> doctor

> > he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without

prior

> > permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But

again,

> at

> > the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is

important

> in

> > the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my

daughter

> who

> > has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium

> remedy

> > and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled

calcium

> > dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I

heard " Amazing,

> my

> > voice has come back! "

> > >

> > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list that

the

> > child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just

there.

> > Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are

> apparent in

> > autism (think this is related to glutamate but the

connection

> > escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved

calcium

> is

> > worth a try...

> > >

> > > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how

you

> get

> > on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of

gurgling.

> > Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the voice

box

> long

> > exposure to the Ca.

> > >

> > > Just an idea.......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I noticed the extremely high dose of K2, also. Yasko uses the

LEF product -- same as the one you use. I have recommended it for

my mother who has spinal stenosis and very bad sciatica, and after

reading this article, I am going to look for the 5 mg K2 you

menrtion for her. She need sto get that calcium back into her

Two other items that help immensely with getting calcium where it

should be are Vitamin D and lactoferrin. I can provide all kinds of

links/abstracts/PDFs on this if you need it.

Dr. Yasko talked about this issue of calcium leaving the teeth and

bones and moving into the muscles in her February talk on the Role

fo Stress -- you can find the PowerPoint to that here -

http://www.holistichealth.com/Presentations.html . Calcium evidently

does this when our bodies go into the fight or flight mode and

that's great if we need our muscles to be fiarly rigid so that we

=can run like hell, but not so good when the stress becomes

chronic. Some of the mutations she checks for also contribute to

stress levels, so dealing with stress is annother way to watch your

calcium issues.

Hugs,

Theresa

> > >

> > > This is just a wild idea but something occured to me

about

> speech

> > difficulties yesterday and thought I would bring it up

here just

> in

> > case it might help any kids who cannot express speech.

> > >

> > >

> > > Many years ago as a student I used to get lots of colds

and

> > promptly lost my voice on almost all occassions. My

Canadian doc

> at

> > the time used to prescribe me " Calcium Sandoz " (Sandoz

being the

> > manufacturer). I would then gargle for a minute or so and

presto

> my

> > voice came back. If anyone watches the American medical

sleuth

> > programme " House " played by the British actor Hugh

Laurie,

> there

> > was an episode where this calcium idea was

used. ...Several

> months

> > ago, he had a patient whose father was mute apparently

from some

> > surgical procedure which went wrong. House, being the

naughty

> doctor

> > he plays, injected calcium into the man's throat (without

prior

> > permission). I can't remember what exactly happened...But

again,

> at

> > the back of House's mind, was the fact that calcium is

important

> in

> > the mechanics of the voice box. Now then yesterday, my

daughter

> who

> > has a cold, lost her voice and I recalled this old calcium

> remedy

> > and I decided to try the same with her. So she gargled

calcium

> > dissolved in some water and two seconds later, I

heard " Amazing,

> my

> > voice has come back! "

> > >

> > > I get the feeling from some of the posts on ths list

that the

> > child really wants to speak but the mecanics are not just

there.

> > Given that we know that calcium transporter problems are

> apparent in

> > autism (think this is related to glutamate but the

connection

> > escapes me at the mo....) maybe trying out the dissolved

calcium

> is

> > worth a try...

> > >

> > > If anyone can try this with their kids, let me know how

you

> get

> > on...the biggest hurdle would be to convey the idea of

gurgling.

> > Swallowing the substance will presumably not give the

voice box

> long

> > exposure to the Ca.

> > >

> > > Just an idea.......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Exactly. Stay far away form K3, the synthetic kind. Vitamin K3 --

the kind they give you a shot of the day you are born -- is very

dangerous for those with a G6PDH deficiency -- Glucose-6-Phosphate

Dehydrogenase Deficiency -- because it can cause hemolysis, or

breaking of the red blood cells, which then causes too much folate

loss and you end up with macrocytic, folate-deficienct anemia.

G6PDH deficiency in these cases is usually more severe because it is

connected with a genetic mutation.

One of the many things that NADH does is to help support G6PDH

levels. Diminished G6PDH activity is associated with persistently

depleted GSH levels and inhibition of glutathione reductase

activity. Don't you just love NADH?????

G6PDH deficiency can be induced metabolically. Things that can

inhibit G6PDH activity and produce a deficiency of varying degree

include:

Sulfur products

Fatty Acids

Cortisol (stress produces cortisol)

Copper

Vitamin C in very high doses

Vitamin K3

DHEA

Low thyroid hormones

Things that can help increase G6PDH activity include:

NADH

Normal to elevated thyroid hormones

High carbohydrate diet

Insulin

Adequate Vitamin D

Adrenal support

EGF, estrogen, PDGF

Best,

Theresa

>

> Sue,

>

> I did research this, and found that K1 and K2 present no toxicity

issues. Whatever is not used, I read, is excreted daily from the

body, remarkable for a fat soluble vitamin, unlike A and D, but not

unlike Vitamin E, which has no toxicity even in doses as high as

10,000 IU per day.

>

> The thing to watch out for, I read is the K3, a synthethic K, as

it is toxic at too high of a dose.

>

> The dosage in the article is high, we don't use that much, but use

9 mg of K1 and 1 mg of K2. K2 is thought to be the more biologically

active and is the K that everyone is supposed to produce in their

gut. I have just ordered 5 mg gel caps of K2 from Carlson

laboratories and am going to try that.

>

> If you google K, you should find what I told you, if you find

anything different, I would appreciate your sharing it.

>

> Good luck,

>

>

> Re: Speech probs and calcium

>

>

> ---

> > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

overdose

> potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in

Uk it

> has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

anyone

> know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

>

>Thanks , I suspect I was putting too much in to my google

quests, I did not think of just typing K. Typical me, always make

things more complicated than they need to be. It was very encouraging

to read that excess is excreted. Will let you know if I find anything

further of relevance. Thanks again Sue

[Guest guest]

>

> One of the many things that NADH does is to help support G6PDH

> levels. Diminished G6PDH activity is associated with persistently

> depleted GSH levels and inhibition of glutathione reductase

> activity. Don't you just love NADH?????

>

>Hi Theresa,

Sorry about this but I have no idea what NADH is, and couldn't see it

on the abbreviations file. Can anyone enlighten a rather slow on the

uptake battler?

Sue

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 27/09/2006 13:06:37 GMT Standard Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes:

In the interest of full disclosure, and to be objective, this paper has caused a little stir as it suggests the K in lieu of the LOD diet, so Owens, (not the originator of the LOD diet, but she runs an LOD diet group) has taken issue with it. So far I have not seen her disclose anything specific, just general comments that the K instead of the LOD diet is not a good idea.

We tried the LOD religiously for about 6 months to address urinary issues, I think that is the reason many folks try it... It concerns me, so many things to eliminate... I remember distinctly adding in Calcium citrate as recommended during the Xmas break along with Magnesium Citrate (we did this first) within days had constipation. I personally think the urination problem with many kids is related to the bowel issues.

The period from Dec to April for us was one of our worst ever, no idea what was going on. Please dont think I ma saying this is all down to LOD, I am not truly but its worrying that such supplements are recommended when so many of our kids have chronic constipation issues not to mention excitotoxin issues, its a minefield which I dont even profess to understand, many bits I am getting up to speed with but the interactions and whole picture... That will take a long time for me to grasp!

I am more and more intrigued by this approach of Yaskos because it is more sympathetic to individual differences and supports systems indirectly if you know what I mean. So as says chelation is important but if you do this properly you will achieve detox/metal excretion whatever you want to call it.

I think the main problem for many of us is one of patience, it is for me anyway, I thinkI need to slow down and watch and listen a bit more to what s body is doing, needs and wants. Hope this makes sense, I do ramble sometimes, humour me...

Gotta go, hoovering beckons.

Have a good day.

Love Caroline

xxx

[Guest guest]

Hey Sue,

NADH is essential to energy production, particularly in the Krebs

Cycle inside the mitochondria. It is particularly helpful to use if

you are supplementing with glutathione because NADH is necessary for

the conversion of oxidized (used) glutathione to reduced (usable)

glutathione. That way, you aren't depleting the body's store of NADH,

which is used in many, many reactions, many of which are under stress

in our kids. It is being used by a lot of DAN! docs and in Dr.

Yasko's program. Best to buy Enada NADH, which is available from many

different companies such as Source Naturals and Vitamin Shoppe and all

kinds of brands. NADH did absolute ownders for my daughter Lulu,

helped immensely with her global apraxia.

Here is a good online intro to NADH for the layperson -

http://www.nadh.com/index.html#Top

Best,

Theresa

>

>

> >

> > One of the many things that NADH does is to help support G6PDH

> > levels. Diminished G6PDH activity is associated with persistently

> > depleted GSH levels and inhibition of glutathione reductase

> > activity. Don't you just love NADH?????

> >

> >Hi Theresa,

> Sorry about this but I have no idea what NADH is, and couldn't see

it

> on the abbreviations file. Can anyone enlighten a rather slow on

the

> uptake battler?

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

did you notice any improvement using the LEF product? Would you

recommend this as a good starting point? How long did it take and at

what dose to bring your calcium levels back into range? Sorry for so

many questions!!!

Love

tltbaku wrote:

> ,

>

> Exactly. Stay far away form K3, the synthetic kind. Vitamin K3 --

> the kind they give you a shot of the day you are born -- is very

> dangerous for those with a G6PDH deficiency -- Glucose-6-Phosphate

> Dehydrogenase Deficiency -- because it can cause hemolysis, or

> breaking of the red blood cells, which then causes too much folate

> loss and you end up with macrocytic, folate-deficienct anemia.

> G6PDH deficiency in these cases is usually more severe because it is

> connected with a genetic mutation.

>

> One of the many things that NADH does is to help support G6PDH

> levels. Diminished G6PDH activity is associated with persistently

> depleted GSH levels and inhibition of glutathione reductase

> activity. Don't you just love NADH?????

>

> G6PDH deficiency can be induced metabolically. Things that can

> inhibit G6PDH activity and produce a deficiency of varying degree

> include:

> Sulfur products

> Fatty Acids

> Cortisol (stress produces cortisol)

> Copper

> Vitamin C in very high doses

> Vitamin K3

> DHEA

> Low thyroid hormones

>

> Things that can help increase G6PDH activity include:

> NADH

> Normal to elevated thyroid hormones

> High carbohydrate diet

> Insulin

> Adequate Vitamin D

> Adrenal support

> EGF, estrogen, PDGF

>

> Best,

> Theresa

>

>

> >

> > Sue,

> >

> > I did research this, and found that K1 and K2 present no toxicity

> issues. Whatever is not used, I read, is excreted daily from the

> body, remarkable for a fat soluble vitamin, unlike A and D, but not

> unlike Vitamin E, which has no toxicity even in doses as high as

> 10,000 IU per day.

> >

> > The thing to watch out for, I read is the K3, a synthethic K, as

> it is toxic at too high of a dose.

> >

> > The dosage in the article is high, we don't use that much, but use

> 9 mg of K1 and 1 mg of K2. K2 is thought to be the more biologically

> active and is the K that everyone is supposed to produce in their

> gut. I have just ordered 5 mg gel caps of K2 from Carlson

> laboratories and am going to try that.

> >

> > If you google K, you should find what I told you, if you find

> anything different, I would appreciate your sharing it.

> >

> > Good luck,

> >

> >

> > Re: Speech probs and calcium

> >

> >

> > ---

> > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> overdose

> > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in

> Uk it

> > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> anyone

> > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > Sue

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just posted to you on 's post. We did see some good things on the K, but thinking, like all things, will be good for some kids, no difference for other kids.

Not going to the place where I say that this is needed for all kids, but certainly with her out of range blood calcium, even with adequate vitamin D, vitamin K was certainly indicated here and has caused some good things and some not so good things (viral issues) that may turn out to be good things.

The markers for K deficiency as I have read are nose bleeds, easy bruising, calcium wasting and lighter poops. The first two were never a problem for us, she has never once had a nose bleed and brusing is not a problem. Her poops were not light, but maybe, a touch lighter than they should have been and we had big problems with calcium wasting, big problems. I had always dismissed the need for the K due to the absence of nosebleeds and bruising, I shouldn't have.

Her blood calcium at its highest was 11.4 with the highest ref range of 10.4. Her last exam at the ped's office showed she was beginning to develop scolosis, not good in a 5 year old. She has the body type, very, very tall (90% on the height chart) and she is petite, very tiny build.

The ped said it's possible it could correct itself and I'm hoping with the addition of the K, it will. We used the Super K product from Life Extensions, started with just one drop of the gel cap and worked up to one whole capsule. It took 4 weeks to bring her calcium level under the highest ref range for the first time ever. I have just ordered a product from Carlson laboratories with 5 mgs of K2, as this is the preferred form, but we got good results with the Super K product. K1 and K2 are never toxic at even very high amounts.

In the interest of full disclosure, and to be objective, this paper has caused a little stir as it suggests the K in lieu of the LOD diet, so Owens, (not the originator of the LOD diet, but she runs an LOD diet group) has taken issue with it. So far I have not seen her disclose anything specific, just general comments that the K instead of the LOD diet is not a good idea. I am not concerned by anything she has posted, but mention it as an avenue you might want to pursue before you make a decision as I like to hear everything, the good and the bad before I start something.

Hope this helps.

Re: Speech probs and calcium> >> >> > ---> > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about> overdose> > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum> > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that in> Uk it> > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does> anyone> > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?> > Sue> >>>

[Guest guest]

Not rambling - am with you on that one - I need to do the same. Off to

watch the Yasko DVD now!!

CarolineTraa@... wrote:

> In a message dated 27/09/2006 13:06:37 GMT Standard Time,

> Ladyshrink111@ peoplepc. com writes:

>

> In the interest of full disclosure, and to be objective, this

> paper has caused a little stir as it suggests the K in lieu of the

> LOD diet, so Owens, (not the originator of the LOD diet, but

> she runs an LOD diet group) has taken issue with it. So far I have

> not seen her disclose anything specific, just general comments

> that the K instead of the LOD diet is not a good idea.

>

>

>

> We tried the LOD religiously for about 6 months to address urinary

> issues, I think that is the reason many folks try it... It concerns

> me, so many things to eliminate... I remember distinctly adding in

> Calcium citrate as recommended during the Xmas break along with

> Magnesium Citrate (we did this first) within days had

> constipation. I personally think the urination problem with many kids

> is related to the bowel issues.

>

> The period from Dec to April for us was one of our worst ever, no idea

> what was going on. Please dont think I ma saying this is all down to

> LOD, I am not truly but its worrying that such supplements are

> recommended when so many of our kids have chronic constipation issues

> not to mention excitotoxin issues, its a minefield which I dont even

> profess to understand, many bits I am getting up to speed with but the

> interactions and whole picture... That will take a long time for me to

> grasp!

>

> I am more and more intrigued by this approach of Yaskos because it is

> more sympathetic to individual differences and supports systems

> indirectly if you know what I mean. So as says chelation is

> important but if you do this properly you will achieve detox/metal

> excretion whatever you want to call it.

>

> I think the main problem for many of us is one of patience, it is for

> me anyway, I thinkI need to slow down and watch and listen a bit more

> to what s body is doing, needs and wants. Hope this makes

> sense, I do ramble sometimes, humour me...

>

> Gotta go, hoovering beckons.

> Have a good day.

> Love Caroline

> xxx

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey Sue,

>

> NADH is essential to energy production, particularly in the Krebs

> Cycle inside the mitochondria. It is particularly helpful to use if

> you are supplementing with glutathione because NADH is necessary for

> the conversion of oxidized (used) glutathione to reduced (usable)

> glutathione.

Thanks Theresa,

The link was good, nice and basic, the way I like it.

We are using reduced glutathione for our son, does that mean it would

not be necessary to take the nadh, the DAN Dr. never mentioned nadh to

us.

Sue

[Guest guest]

,

I guess I would have to say that it is highly likely that all kids

with gut problems need Vitamin K. If normal gut flora have been

disturbed it is highly likely that a Vitamin K deficiency will

occur. In addition, although Vitamin K is a fat soluble vitamin, it

is not stored like other fat soluble vitamins, and therefore needs

to gotten from the diet every day. Most dietary Vit K comes from

leafy greens, and that's not usually a staple in our kids diets --

Lulu is only 3 years old and doesn't eat many leafy greens at all, I

have to say.

Yes, I think the author of that article is an advocate of the SCD

diet, so there seems to be quite a difference of opinion.

Have you seen this webpage, which is part of a larger and quite

interesting website on connective tissue disorders -

http://www.ctds.info/vitamink.html

Best,

Theresa

> > >

> > > Sue,

> > >

> > > I did research this, and found that K1 and K2 present no

toxicity

> > issues. Whatever is not used, I read, is excreted daily from

the

> > body, remarkable for a fat soluble vitamin, unlike A and D,

but not

> > unlike Vitamin E, which has no toxicity even in doses as high

as

> > 10,000 IU per day.

> > >

> > > The thing to watch out for, I read is the K3, a synthethic

K, as

> > it is toxic at too high of a dose.

> > >

> > > The dosage in the article is high, we don't use that much,

but use

> > 9 mg of K1 and 1 mg of K2. K2 is thought to be the more

biologically

> > active and is the K that everyone is supposed to produce in

their

> > gut. I have just ordered 5 mg gel caps of K2 from Carlson

> > laboratories and am going to try that.

> > >

> > > If you google K, you should find what I told you, if you find

> > anything different, I would appreciate your sharing it.

> > >

> > > Good luck,

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Speech probs and

calcium

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> > overdose

> > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate optimum

> > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed that

in

> > Uk it

> > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> > anyone

> > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > Sue

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here's the page from that website on benefiocial bacteria and the

synthesis of Vit K int he gut -

http://www.ctds.info/helpful_bacteria.html

> > > >

> > > > Sue,

> > > >

> > > > I did research this, and found that K1 and K2 present no

> toxicity

> > > issues. Whatever is not used, I read, is excreted daily from

> the

> > > body, remarkable for a fat soluble vitamin, unlike A and D,

> but not

> > > unlike Vitamin E, which has no toxicity even in doses as

high

> as

> > > 10,000 IU per day.

> > > >

> > > > The thing to watch out for, I read is the K3, a synthethic

> K, as

> > > it is toxic at too high of a dose.

> > > >

> > > > The dosage in the article is high, we don't use that much,

> but use

> > > 9 mg of K1 and 1 mg of K2. K2 is thought to be the more

> biologically

> > > active and is the K that everyone is supposed to produce in

> their

> > > gut. I have just ordered 5 mg gel caps of K2 from Carlson

> > > laboratories and am going to try that.

> > > >

> > > > If you google K, you should find what I told you, if you

find

> > > anything different, I would appreciate your sharing it.

> > > >

> > > > Good luck,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: Speech probs and

> calcium

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > > > I was very intrigued by the article, and wondered about

> > > overdose

> > > > potential. I had no luck finding anything to indicate

optimum

> > > > levels/dosages/indications of overdose. Also, it seemed

that

> in

> > > Uk it

> > > > has to be prescribed, so could be a problem to obtain. Does

> > > anyone

> > > > know anything about dosages, and overdose potential?

> > > > Sue

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>