Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 Ditto for me. hugs, lea In a message dated 5/2/00 4:47:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Namkrats3@... writes: > I want to thank all of our Lyme Warriors who will be representing us in > MOW tomorrow. Many of us, including myself, are frustrated that we are > unable to go. > You all have my Love and Respect. > Joan LI NY > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 Hi All, As Joan says, I also thank all of those going to MOW. I am still too ill to even try but after effects of HBOT wear off I will be back in action again God willing. I will have you in my prayers. Love, Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 Ditto for me. hugs, lea In a message dated 5/2/00 4:47:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Namkrats3@... writes: > I want to thank all of our Lyme Warriors who will be representing us in > MOW tomorrow. Many of us, including myself, are frustrated that we are > unable to go. > You all have my Love and Respect. > Joan LI NY > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 Hi All, As Joan says, I also thank all of those going to MOW. I am still too ill to even try but after effects of HBOT wear off I will be back in action again God willing. I will have you in my prayers. Love, Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Without my reading all those posts about " warrior... " would someone tell me whether warriors ate wheat? Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 >Without my reading all those posts about " warrior... " would someone >tell me whether warriors ate wheat? Dennis In Roman times, they ate wheat, though barley was more common. However, grains were regarded as something you did if you were poor or on the march or for emergencies, they were not desirable food. If you could get it, meat was better. Now, Mercola thinks wheat has " molecular mimicry " and can throw off your immune system I think wheat is just plain toxic. But Ori has a better reason for avoiding wheat ... it is " estrogenic " ... i.e. it will make you GIRLISH. What worse fate could exist for a warrior??? <effeminate giggle, giggle> The Egyptians ate wheat, but they also ate all day long, and the pictures of them are decidedly effeminate. Shoot, the guys even wore eye makeup. Ori does not count them as " warriors " . Now we hear the archeologists can't even tell a male mummy from a female mummy ... -- Heidi S. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 > > >Without my reading all those posts about " warrior... " would someone > >tell me whether warriors ate wheat? Dennis > > In Roman times, they ate wheat, though barley was more common. However, > grains were regarded as something you did if you were poor or on the march > or for emergencies, they were not desirable food. If you could get it, meat > was better. > > Now, Mercola thinks wheat has " molecular mimicry " and can throw off > your immune system I think wheat is just plain toxic. But Ori has a better reason for > avoiding wheat ... it is " estrogenic " ... i.e. it will make you GIRLISH. What > worse fate could exist for a warrior??? <effeminate giggle, giggle> > > <><><><><><><><><<><<><><>What about submissive? HAHAHAHA! Off to the nt_politics list I go. Dennis Thanks though, Heidi. The Egyptians ate wheat, but they also ate all day long, and the pictures > of them are decidedly effeminate. Shoot, the guys even wore eye makeup. > Ori does not count them as " warriors " . Now we hear the archeologists > can't even tell a male mummy from a female mummy ... > > -- Heidi S. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Heidi, Does Ori avoid all grains or just wheat? For example, lately I have been ending the day with a 100% sprouted rye unleavened Maana bread. Would that be " legal " on the WD. Speaking of " legal " do you think Ori might qualify as a " food anarchist " to mix two preceding discussions? I know he doesn't like rules ;-) Chris In a message dated 9/11/03 12:34:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > But Ori has a better reason for > avoiding wheat ... it is " estrogenic " ... i.e. it will make you GIRLISH. > What > worse fate could exist for a warrior??? <effeminate giggle, giggle> > > The Egyptians ate wheat, but they also ate all day long, and the pictures > of them are decidedly effeminate. Shoot, the guys even wore eye makeup. > Ori does not count them as " warriors " . Now we hear the archeologists > can't even tell a male mummy from a female mummy ... " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 In a message dated 9/11/03 5:37:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > He rates grains as to desirability and wheat is at the bottom. But I don't > have > my book handy to tell you the rating. All of them are legal -- if you are > trying > to lose weight though, you have to eat them after your protein. On his > website > and in the discussion on " stubborn fat " though he mentions food allergies > some -- if you are allergic to a thing it ups your cortisol levels which > makes > it hard to lose fat. And grains are THE most allergenic of foods. Plus from > my reading > for a recent post, it seems that all grains have some levels of mycotoxins > from storage -- they break down to some degree when you ferment the grain > and I'd guess sprouting would help too. I don't know if he eats grains > himself > or not ... he seems to regard them as inferior food in general. I don't eat much grains. I wasn't eating any for a while, but I'd been having trouble sleeping, so on your inadvertent suggestion (oh, the irony!) I bought some of this bread to have before bed! I have one thing as the last thing I eat. I have no desire to lose weight (gaining ten pounds wouldn't be bad! but not fat...), but I always eat my protein first, because I got the impression from his writings that it would be more usable, so I figured this would help me gain muscle more effectively, especially after a workout. > >Speaking of " legal " do you think Ori might qualify as a " food anarchist " > to > >mix two preceding discussions? I know he doesn't like rules ;-) > > Oh, he was the one I was thinking of when I made the comment that opened the > floodgates! He is a " freethinker " to be sure (was Ben lin an > anarchist?). > Like you imply, he'd be the first person to tell you not to follow the rules > for > the sake of the rules! I wouldn't consider ol' Ben an anarchist, but he's one funny guy! He had really neat suggestions at the Constitutional Convention that were all pretty humorous actually, but he was totally ignored. Madison said basically he was really old and well-respected for his role in the founding of the country, so they listened to his speeches out of respect, though they all thought he was losing it. He proposed that the Supreme Court justices be elected by... *drumroll*... lawyers! His logic was that the lawyers would vote to have the best lawyers on the SC, so that way they would free up the most business to be had by the remaining lawyers! lol! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 >Heidi, > >Does Ori avoid all grains or just wheat? For example, lately I have been >ending the day with a 100% sprouted rye unleavened Maana bread. Would that be > " legal " on the WD. He rates grains as to desirability and wheat is at the bottom. But I don't have my book handy to tell you the rating. All of them are legal -- if you are trying to lose weight though, you have to eat them after your protein. On his website and in the discussion on " stubborn fat " though he mentions food allergies some -- if you are allergic to a thing it ups your cortisol levels which makes it hard to lose fat. And grains are THE most allergenic of foods. Plus from my reading for a recent post, it seems that all grains have some levels of mycotoxins from storage -- they break down to some degree when you ferment the grain and I'd guess sprouting would help too. I don't know if he eats grains himself or not ... he seems to regard them as inferior food in general. >Speaking of " legal " do you think Ori might qualify as a " food anarchist " to >mix two preceding discussions? I know he doesn't like rules ;-) Oh, he was the one I was thinking of when I made the comment that opened the floodgates! He is a " freethinker " to be sure (was Ben lin an anarchist?). Like you imply, he'd be the first person to tell you not to follow the rules for the sake of the rules! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 >I have no desire to lose weight (gaining ten pounds wouldn't be bad! but not >fat...), but I always eat my protein first, because I got the impression from >his writings that it would be more usable, so I figured this would help me >gain muscle more effectively, especially after a workout. I've never read *anything* that indicates that carbs increase muscle, unless you are starving (then carbs prevent muscle wasting). The idea of eating your protein first is to fill you up so you don't eat so many carbs! I usually eat potatoes, myself, though I do eat rice crackers (you have to have something to eat anchovies and lox on ...). But I really don't like bread unless it is hard and chewey. I wouldn't consider ol' Ben an anarchist, but he's one funny guy! He had >really neat suggestions at the Constitutional Convention that were all pretty >humorous actually, but he was totally ignored. Madison said basically he was >really old and well-respected for his role in the founding of the country, so >they listened to his speeches out of respect, though they all thought he was >losing it. He proposed that the Supreme Court justices be elected by... >*drumroll*... lawyers! His logic was that the lawyers would vote to have the best >lawyers on the SC, so that way they would free up the most business to be had by >the remaining lawyers! lol! I haven't read his biography really, but I need to. I guess in his younger years he tried to figure out if " religion " was true, so he experimented with praying vs. not praying to see which yeilded better results. Lacking clear results, he founded the " freethinkers " ... which in that day was really radical. He also wrote articles under a fictitious name to stir things up. He sure sounds a lot like Ori ... though Ori is obviously in better shape ... -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 In a message dated 9/12/03 2:50:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > I've never read *anything* that indicates that carbs increase muscle, > unless you > are starving (then carbs prevent muscle wasting). The idea of eating > your protein first is to fill you up so you don't eat so many carbs! Carbs? Hunh? I meant the protein... I know that's part of the reason, but Ori said that eating protein on an *empty* stomach after *fasting* increases protein utilization by 50% in the interview. So if I start off with a baked potato, by the time I eat any protein I'm certainly not fasting any more, and am certainly not on an empty stomach. I usually > eat potatoes, myself, though I do eat rice crackers (you have to have > something to eat anchovies and lox on ...). But I really don't like bread > unless it is hard and chewey. > This Manna bread is something else. It's incredibly dense because it's unleavened, but it is also very moist, and it's SWEET! Which is interesting, because there's no sugar or anything in it. The ingredients are sprouted rye grain and water. That's it. No salt, no yeast, no nothing. They might sprout the rye longer, to make it sweeter, or rye is sweeter than wheat (I've never had straight rye before, most rye breads are based in wheat). My gums also don't seem to get inflamed from this stuff like they do from sprouted 7 grain bread, maybe because there's no wheat, but hard to tell. > I haven't read his biography really, but I need to. I guess in his younger > years > he tried to figure out if " religion " was true, so he experimented with > praying > vs. not praying to see which yeilded better results. Lacking clear results, > he founded the " freethinkers " ... which in that day was really radical. He > also > wrote articles under a fictitious name to stir things up. He sure sounds > a lot like Ori ... though Ori is obviously in better shape ... Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know freethinkers were founded by lin. I think his experiment didn't take into account the faith variable. Now he should have built two fires... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 In a message dated 9/12/03 1:13:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, slethnobotanist@... writes: > Manna does make breads that use sprouted wheat as well. All the brands > are sweet. But the rye, IIRC, is best in terms of ingredients. When I > buy it that is the kind I usually get. I will have to look at the others > more closely again. I haven't tried the other ones. Since Manna is more expensive than Shiloh, Alvorado St., Ezekiel, etc, I just tried it because it was the only wheat-free one. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 >Carbs? Hunh? I meant the protein... I know that's part of the reason, but >Ori said that eating protein on an *empty* stomach after *fasting* increases >protein utilization by 50% in the interview. So if I start off with a baked >potato, by the time I eat any protein I'm certainly not fasting any more, and am >certainly not on an empty stomach. Ah. Well, building muscle is another thing, I guess. He eats protein during the day though, on an empty stomach -- I snack on my jerky. He says that helps your brain too (amino acids). Maybe you should try his half a chicken during the day ... > >This Manna bread is something else. It's incredibly dense because it's >unleavened, but it is also very moist, and it's SWEET! Which is interesting, >because there's no sugar or anything in it. The ingredients are sprouted rye grain >and water. That's it. No salt, no yeast, no nothing. They might sprout the >rye longer, to make it sweeter, or rye is sweeter than wheat (I've never had >straight rye before, most rye breads are based in wheat). Sprouting grain is how one makes malt, which is really, really sweet. Malt is also a sugar (or probably, several sugars). Maltose feeds yeast quite nicely, which makes for great beer. But if they have no yeast in the bread, then all the sweetness will remain. >My gums also don't >seem to get inflamed from this stuff like they do from sprouted 7 grain bread, >maybe because there's no wheat, but hard to tell. It would have a lot less of the offending proteins. It's interesting you would get an inflamed gum response. My daughter has the top of her mouth hurt when she eats certain foods .... I wonder of some gum disease is allergy-based. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know freethinkers were founded by lin. >I think his experiment didn't take into account the faith variable. Now he >should have built two fires... Interestingly enough, recent researchers actually have tested the " faith variable " -- well sort of. They had people pray for one sick person and not for another. Ben would be proud ... -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 In a message dated 9/12/03 2:44:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > Ah. Well, building muscle is another thing, I guess. He eats protein > during the day though, on an empty stomach -- I snack on my jerky. > He says that helps your brain too (amino acids). Maybe you should > try his half a chicken during the day ... Oh, hmm. Ok, well the easiest thing for me to do would be to have a few raw egg yolks a couple times. So does he eat *no* carbs with his protein? Does he eat the protein regularly, or does he try to fast completely first, and eat the protein if he gets hungry? > Sprouting grain is how one makes malt, which is really, really sweet. > Malt is also a sugar (or probably, several sugars). Maltose feeds > yeast quite nicely, which makes for great beer. But if they have > no yeast in the bread, then all the sweetness will remain. Oh, right, that makes sense. I knew the sprouting caused the starch to break into maltose, but I didn't think of the fact that the leavening would reduce the maltose. > It would have a lot less of the offending proteins. It's interesting you > would get an inflamed gum response. My daughter has the top of her > mouth hurt when she eats certain foods .... I wonder of some gum > disease is allergy-based. I can't tell for sure that my gums are inflamed, but there's a feeling I get in my mouth that *seems* like gum inflmmation to me. Bread isn't the only thing that does it. Caffeiene seems to as well, beyond a certain point. I think it *could* be an allergy in the case of gluten, while simple inflammation in other cases. Presumably too much carbs in general, fatty acid imbalance, etc, could all contribute to the inflammation. I have periodontitis though, so my gums are always inflamed. It might be a case of what best directly feeds the bacteria that are causing it, in which case the difference between breads is confusing. > Interestingly enough, recent researchers actually have tested the > " faith variable " -- well sort of. They had people pray for one sick person > and not for another. Ben would be proud ... By the last sentence I assume they found no difference. I saw one that was reported pretty widely a year or two ago where they found a 20-something% difference between prayed-for and not-prayed-for. The studies are worthless though if the actual theology behind prayer is taken into account. The question is really unfalsifiable and untestable. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 06:41:25 EDT ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: >Heidi, > >Does Ori avoid all grains or just wheat? For example, lately I have been >ending the day with a 100% sprouted rye unleavened Maana bread. Would that be > " legal " on the WD. > He allows grains although he is not keen on wheat (and for good reason). Manna Bread is excellent. I have been eating it for a number of years. And the rye variety is about the most perfect type of bread you can buy at retail. But sometimes it would give me a stomach ache. IIRC, there is something about unleavened bread in terms of binding of certain minerals or b-vitamins. Does anyone know? It Really Was The People's Car http://tinyurl.com/mwbv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:17:13 EDT ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: >I don't eat much grains. I wasn't eating any for a while, but I'd been >having trouble sleeping, so on your inadvertent suggestion (oh, the irony!) I >bought some of this bread to have before bed! I have one thing as the last thing I >eat. I have been having yams at the end of my meal with butter and honey complex. Something like that might be a good way to go if you want to avoid grains altogether. I have also had porridge at the end of my meal laced with butter and honey complex. Millet and buckwheat make excellent choices and they don't seem to have the problems associated with other grains. Perhaps because botanically they are fruits? It Really Was The People's Car http://tinyurl.com/mwbv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:53:53 EDT ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: > >This Manna bread is something else. It's incredibly dense because it's >unleavened, but it is also very moist, and it's SWEET! Which is interesting, >because there's no sugar or anything in it. The ingredients are sprouted rye grain >and water. That's it. No salt, no yeast, no nothing. They might sprout the >rye longer, to make it sweeter, or rye is sweeter than wheat (I've never had >straight rye before, most rye breads are based in wheat). Manna does make breads that use sprouted wheat as well. All the brands are sweet. But the rye, IIRC, is best in terms of ingredients. When I buy it that is the kind I usually get. I will have to look at the others more closely again. It Really Was The People's Car http://tinyurl.com/mwbv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 At 12:13 PM 9/12/2003, you wrote: >> Ah. Well, building muscle is another thing, I guess. He eats protein >> during the day though, on an empty stomach -- I snack on my jerky. >> He says that helps your brain too (amino acids). Maybe you should >> try his half a chicken during the day ... > >Oh, hmm. Ok, well the easiest thing for me to do would be to have a few raw >egg yolks a couple times. So does he eat *no* carbs with his protein? Does >he eat the protein regularly, or does he try to fast completely first, and eat >the protein if he gets hungry? He eats no starch during the day. He does eat fruit, raw, and vegies. He says he eats if he feels like it. The idea is to listen to your appetite. He mentions that proteins on an empty stomach are good though, and that seems to work better for me too, though I might have a few vegies with the meat (like today I had a lettuce burger for lunch). >I can't tell for sure that my gums are inflamed, but there's a feeling I get >in my mouth that *seems* like gum inflmmation to me. Bread isn't the only >thing that does it. Caffeiene seems to as well, beyond a certain point. I think >it *could* be an allergy in the case of gluten, while simple inflammation in >other cases. Presumably too much carbs in general, fatty acid imbalance, etc, >could all contribute to the inflammation. I have periodontitis though, so my >gums are always inflamed. It might be a case of what best directly feeds the >bacteria that are causing it, in which case the difference between breads is >confusing. Hmmm ... too bad about the periodontitis. Now are we going to get back into the discussion of whether bacteria cause cavities or not? Well, periodontitis isn't cavities, I know, but I wonder what does cause it? Gluten DOES cause inflammation -- so would other IgA allergies, I think. IgE allergies cause inflammation too, usually in your nasal tissues and lungs. I don't know about IgG. The IgA reaction isn't a simple allergy ... it causes a lot of auto-immune antibodies to get produced that attack body tissues. However, my gums were having problems and I started taking Vit. C, which worked. I don't know exactly why it worked ... I eat plenty of fruit etc. normally. >> Interestingly enough, recent researchers actually have tested the >> " faith variable " -- well sort of. They had people pray for one sick person >> and not for another. Ben would be proud ... > >By the last sentence I assume they found no difference. I saw one that was >reported pretty widely a year or two ago where they found a 20-something% >difference between prayed-for and not-prayed-for. Actually I've heard two different sets of results, so I didn't want to quote the outcome. There is definite evidence that people who *know* people are praying for them do better, which makes a lot of sense regardless of one's theology. I think there were mixed results on the people who didn't know people were praying for them, but I don't remember the details. >The studies are worthless though if the actual theology behind prayer is >taken into account. The question is really unfalsifiable and untestable. In the case of theology, I agree. In the case of psychology, it isn't untestable at all. People do a lot better if they feel cared for, and THAT is something the modern medical establishment has really not taken into account at all. The average hospital makes a person stressed out and sick just going in the door! The air is bad, there are no windows, it looks scary. I'm not Catholic, but I'd feel a lot more relaxed if I was taken to a convent, placed into one of those little " cells " they have, had a candle lit and was told the nuns were all out praying for me. I stayed overnight in a convent once and it was the most RELAXING place I've ever been. I would think that a lot of people would do better in better settings and/or having people *caring* for them rather than being treated like hunks of meat. And I think this part is scientifically verifiable as well as intuitive, (and on topic as far as health goes!), and holds true regardless of ones religion/theology/life outlook. The reason I said " Ben would be proud " is that folks tested the idea. I like the idea of testing ideas, esp. when they relate to " programs " . I.e. if you have X treatment and Y treatment, which one works the best? Price was big into testing too, which is one of the reasons I like him. I'm well aware that most theologians would disagree with the idea of " testing " prayer, but the principles still apply to churches and some churches ARE using those kinds of principles. For instance, which kinds of prayer meetings work the best for the participants? At what times of the day can people concentrate the best? What venues are most conducive to inner peace? Some religions HAVE concentrated on these kinds of issues, using trial and error I think, which might be why 's version came up with fasting, for instance. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 In a message dated 9/12/03 6:01:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > He eats no starch during the day. He does eat fruit, raw, and vegies. He > says he eats > if he feels like it. The idea is to listen to your appetite. He mentions > that > proteins on an empty stomach are good though, and that seems to work > better for me too, though I might have a few vegies with the meat (like > today I had a lettuce burger for lunch). I'm trying to maximize the effect of fasting on insulin sensitivity, so it seems to me like minimizing insulin during the day would be the way to achieve that, right? I'd rather go for not eating, and carrying something out as emergency than eat something regularly. I guess I'll break down and buy the book at some point :-) > Hmmm ... too bad about the periodontitis. Now are we going to get > back into the discussion of whether bacteria cause cavities or not? Well, > periodontitis isn't cavities, I know, but I wonder what does cause it? Bacteria are unquestionably involved. Inflammation of the gums itself causes certain types of bacteria to flourish, because certain juices that flow more during inflammation are good food for them. It varies from case to case. In my case, I believe it's caused by infected root canals. So in my case it would be more " caused " by bacteria, but my tooth decay that lead to the root canals in the first place was caused by poor nutrition, not bacteria, IMO. > In the case of theology, I agree. In the case of psychology, it isn't > untestable at all. Agreed. People do a lot better if they feel cared for, > and THAT is something the modern medical establishment has > really not taken into account at all. The average hospital makes > a person stressed out and sick just going in the door! The air is > bad, there are no windows, it looks scary. I agree again. > Some religions HAVE concentrated on these kinds of > issues, using trial and error I think, which might be > why 's version came up with fasting, for instance. But there's no historical origin to the fasting. It was a universal Christian phenomenon since the beginning of Christianity, and the only reason Orthodoxy has it now and other versions don't is because the other versions of Christianity abandoned the practice. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 In a message dated 9/13/03 1:49:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > Yep, buy the book! It's worth it just for the philosophy. Like I've said > before > the book is very right-brain, they guy is as much into philosophy as > anything > else. Which isn't a bad thing ... having a philosophical underpinning to > ones > diet is fun, at the least, and motivating, and might even be provably more > effective :-) Oh, good, I use both of my brains. Ori's book might supplement some poetry well in tilting my brain over from all these science classes I'm taking :-) Umm... I'll get it if my credit card app gets accepted. Otherwise I'm out of cash and my other credit cards are about full :-/ I'm in a " job transition " and the new one pays biweekly, so I have to go about 3 weeks with no money! > Interesting. " universal Christian phenomenon " ? Did it arise spontaneously > or was there already a tradition in the communities they came from? As > pointed out, there is fasting in Islam, and in Asia there are all > kinds > of dietary/religion interfaces. I'm not sure about Judaism though. It's almost impossible to tell because so much information was destroyed from the early Christian communities that almost all the historical scholarship from the first century or two is largely speculation. But biblical evidence would indicate some type of seasonal fasting practice (i.e. lent) was in place during apostolic times, and later written evidence, iirc, indicates the fasting practices were definitely solidified around the turn of the second century. Ditto for the entire organization of the church, definitely solidified by turn of the second century. (i.e. within 75 years of the death of Christ, probably before). might be able to help out with this, I'm not sure, but iirc the Didascalia which is considered to be late first century talks about the fasting practices. I can't remember positively though, because there are several documents which are built on the Didascalia over the centuries, all claiming to be apostolic but most likely *not* of apostolic origin, except the Didascalia. Christianity started out with 12 guys (to simplify), so if they developed a fasting regimen and Christian communities were founded by them, etc, it would make sense you'd find lots of universal practices among Christian groups. Er... I guess would be the 13th apostle. I read one article which remarked that the organization of the church must have either been taken from the druids or arose mystically. The author opted for the former hypothesis, but in any case the dillema to be tackled with was the seeming spontaneity with which the complex organization developed. This article also mentioned that the Druids had some sort of geometric chart of their " gods, " two of which made the form of a cross, the horizontal one being named " jesus " or some variant. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 >I'm trying to maximize the effect of fasting on insulin sensitivity, so it >seems to me like minimizing insulin during the day would be the way to achieve >that, right? I'd rather go for not eating, and carrying something out as >emergency than eat something regularly. I guess I'll break down and buy the book >at some point :-) Yep, buy the book! It's worth it just for the philosophy. Like I've said before the book is very right-brain, they guy is as much into philosophy as anything else. Which isn't a bad thing ... having a philosophical underpinning to ones diet is fun, at the least, and motivating, and might even be provably more effective :-) >But there's no historical origin to the fasting. It was a universal >Christian phenomenon since the beginning of Christianity, and the only reason >Orthodoxy has it now and other versions don't is because the other versions of >Christianity abandoned the practice. > >Chris Interesting. " universal Christian phenomenon " ? Did it arise spontaneously or was there already a tradition in the communities they came from? As pointed out, there is fasting in Islam, and in Asia there are all kinds of dietary/religion interfaces. I'm not sure about Judaism though. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 In a message dated 9/13/03 6:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > I've heard a lot of the " organization " part came from the Greeks, Romans, > and Jews. In any event, if you were living in Rome, they had a pretty > intense > civilization and I'd guess everyone who grew up in that mileu would be > affected by it. And they seem to have had (according to Ori, I haven't > studied it myself but I've heard it alluded to) pretty interesting food > rules. Also a lot of mystics and various religions, so I'd guess fasting > was in there somewhere. The Romans were REALLY into heirarchy > though, which seems reflected in the Catholic church at least. > > I don't see any reason to bring the Druids in on it though (except > for the Christmas celebration -- pine trees have little to do with > the desert!). I think " Jesus " is just the anglo version of a good > Jewish name. The article came from a source with somewhat " kooky " ideas, and while Christianity reached Ireland and Gaul etc in the first century (waaaaaay before St. ) it seems rather implausible that Christians took their organization from druids. What I thought was interesting wasn't the presence of the name " jesus " in the druid diagram, but its positioning. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 In a message dated 9/13/03 6:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > The Romans were REALLY into heirarchy > though, which seems reflected in the Catholic church at least. Oh. As far as I know *all* Christian churches have hierarchy, regardless of where they are or what their historical roots are. The hierarchy is essentially the same everywhere, with a peculiar exception in the Catholic church, which developed *long* after Roman civilization was essentially defunct. But all Christian churches, with a few very modern exceptions, have bishops, priests, etc. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 >I read one article which remarked that the organization of the church must >have either been taken from the druids or arose mystically. The author opted >for the former hypothesis, but in any case the dillema to be tackled with was >the seeming spontaneity with which the complex organization developed. This >article also mentioned that the Druids had some sort of geometric chart of their > " gods, " two of which made the form of a cross, the horizontal one being named > " jesus " or some variant. > >Chris I've heard a lot of the " organization " part came from the Greeks, Romans, and Jews. In any event, if you were living in Rome, they had a pretty intense civilization and I'd guess everyone who grew up in that mileu would be affected by it. And they seem to have had (according to Ori, I haven't studied it myself but I've heard it alluded to) pretty interesting food rules. Also a lot of mystics and various religions, so I'd guess fasting was in there somewhere. The Romans were REALLY into heirarchy though, which seems reflected in the Catholic church at least. I don't see any reason to bring the Druids in on it though (except for the Christmas celebration -- pine trees have little to do with the desert!). I think " Jesus " is just the anglo version of a good Jewish name. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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