Re: Controversial Literature Review

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time, chris.cytera@... writes:

This might cause some boiling of the blood....http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=250

>>It did the first time I read it.

What should I do if by some chance he applies for the conference? tell him its full? Save him a special seat?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/09/2006 18:28:58 GMT Standard Time, Mum231ASD@... writes:

What should I do if by some chance he applies for the conference? tell him its full? Save him a special seat?

Invite him honey, would love to have a 'conversation' with this man!

BRING IT ON!

Luv Caroline

xxx

[Guest guest]

Just glad

I’m not his autistic child.

Sara

Re:

Controversial Literature Review

In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time,

chris.cyteratalk21 writes:

This

might cause some boiling of the blood....

http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=250

>>It did the first time I read it.

What should I do if by some chance he applies for the

conference? tell him its full? Save him a special seat?

Mandi x

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[Guest guest]

I say get him the front seat and ask some of the speakers to ask him rhetorical

questions “Would you really call that fashionable? when talking about gut issue

for example. He still pays for attending the conference, so it must be a good

thing.

Remis

Re:

Controversial Literature Review

In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time,

chris.cyteratalk21 writes:

This

might cause some boiling of the blood....

http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=250

>>It did the first time I read it.

What should I do if by some chance he applies for the conference?

tell him its full? Save him a special seat?

Mandi x

--

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Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 01/09/2006

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No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 01/09/2006

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/09/2006 21:15:09 GMT Daylight Time, claire_downey@... writes:

Whilst I find him a pain I would be more worried about certain journalists applying...........perhaps we could do the vaccine preservatives challenge live on the good doctor or the not so good journalist in question before allowing them to attend..........PS but seriously have you thougt about security?

>>>I told AW in Cambridge we would have a brick in our briefcases in case twat Deer turns up, laughed so much he nearly choaked (?sp)!

BIC has its own security and I shall be lead bouncer for TA lol What options do we have? Idea's?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Whilst I find him a pain I would be more worried about certain

journalists applying...........perhaps we could do the vaccine

preservatives challenge live on the good doctor or the not so good

journalist in question before allowing them to attend..........

PS but seriously have you thougt about security?

>

> I say get him the front seat and ask some of the speakers to ask him

> rhetorical questions " Would you really call that fashionable? when

talking

> about gut issue for example. He still pays for attending the

conference, so

> it must be a good thing.

>

>

>

> Remis

>

>

>

> Re: [Autism-Biomedical--Europe] Controversial Literature

Review

>

>

>

> In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time,

> chris.cytera@... writes:

>

> This might cause some boiling of the blood....

>

> HYPERLINK

> " http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?

TOPIC_ID=250 " http://www.jabs.-org.uk

> /forum/-topic.asp?-TOPIC_ID=-250

>

> >>It did the first time I read it.

>

>

>

> What should I do if by some chance he applies for the conference?

tell him

> its full? Save him a special seat?

>

>

>

> Mandi x

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

01/09/2006

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

01/09/2006

>

>

>

>

> --

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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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01/09/2006

>

>

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01/09/2006

>

[Guest guest]

I am pretty certain that Dr Fitzpatrick's own son goes to Treehouse

School and is therefore getting a far better education than most

children with autism. It's a pity he couldn't use his energies to

campaign FOR DECENT EDUCATION for all children with autism, rather

than attacking all Bio-Med.

Margaret

>

>

> In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Standard Time,

> chris.cytera@... writes:

>

> This might cause some boiling of the blood....

>

> _http://www.jabs.http://www.jahttp://wwwhttp://wwhtt_

> (http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=250)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Yes, but thankfully, Mr Fiztpatrick, Wank** Extraordinare, only

has his own

> website to promote his rubbish sentiments....some of the same

books were

> favourably and of course, accurately reviewed in the Guardian this

weekend by the

> father of an autistic child, Adam Feinstein.

>

> Feinstein's article will be much more widely read and is far more

objective

> and knowledgeable - in spite of the fact that Mr Fitzpatrick has

even written

> a book about autism....Anyone who would characterise the

literature

> addressing the rising demand for autism awareness as *making

autism fashionable* has

> never held a screaming child's pain wracked body while he arched

his back

> while he vomited, had diarrhoea, and 106 fever as a live injected

virus coupled

> with mercury began to attack his nervous system and deteriorate

his brain....

> yes, fashionable indeed.

>

> Darla

>

[Guest guest]

Tell him he can come if he

1. Behaves himself

and

2. Listens and tries to learn something

Margaret

>

>

> In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time,

> chris.cytera@... writes:

>

> This might cause some boiling of the blood....

>

> _http://www.jabs.http://www.jahttp://wwwhttp://wwhtt_

> (http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=250)

>

>

>

> >>It did the first time I read it.

>

> What should I do if by some chance he applies for the conference?

tell him

> its full? Save him a special seat?

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Offer free places to Drs Salisbury, , Brent

, Fitzpatrick. and Mr B. Deer so long as they " take the

challenge " first in front of the press - after all we all know

thiomersal, formaldehyde, aluminium atc are very very good for you.

Margaret

> >

> > I say get him the front seat and ask some of the speakers to ask

him

> > rhetorical questions " Would you really call that fashionable?

when

> talking

> > about gut issue for example. He still pays for attending the

> conference, so

> > it must be a good thing.

> >

> >

> >

> > Remis

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: [Autism-Biomedical--Europe] Controversial

Literature

> Review

> >

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 04/09/2006 16:14:39 GMT Daylight Time,

> > chris.cytera@ writes:

> >

> > This might cause some boiling of the blood....

> >

> > HYPERLINK

> > " http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?

> TOPIC_ID=250 " http://www.jabs.-org.uk

> > /forum/-topic.asp?-TOPIC_ID=-250

> >

> > >>It did the first time I read it.

> >

> >

> >

> > What should I do if by some chance he applies for the

conference?

> tell him

> > its full? Save him a special seat?

> >

> >

> >

> > Mandi x

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

> 01/09/2006

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

> 01/09/2006

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

> 01/09/2006

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date:

> 01/09/2006

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/09/2006 13:49:00 GMT Standard Time, oneill_liam@... writes:

After all, isn't that one of the criticisms that Fits levels against ABA? A lack of ability to accept and respond to critical evaluation?

Wow, I'd say if there is ANY methodological approach that has received scrutiny, been challenged, studies been replicated and ultimately justified, it's ABA. The research backs it up...we've been doing our proposal and have found so many studies, criticisms, endorsements, etc, it's phenomenal. The US Surgeon General, National Institutes of Mental Health, the American Psychiatric Paediatric Society...etc, etc...all endorse behavioural analysis as a valid treatment for pervasive developmental disorders and do not consider it experimental any longer. Lovaas intial 1985 study has been replicated in numerous countries around the world with consistent results...

Does he honestly think that ABA hasn't been criticised and held to public and theoretical scrutiny? In fact, the splinter groups that use a variety of approaches, the VB variant, etc have all developed out of reasonable criticisms of ABA. It is stunning to think that he holds such an antiquated view of ABA. ESPECIALLY SINCE HIS OWN SON ATTENDS AN ABA SCHOOL.

Sorry....rant over/

Must get to the shop.

Darla

[Guest guest]

Wow. Liam, that's incredible. I have to say, that's not what I've encountered here. I know about 5 different families locally running ABA programmes and none of their consultants would do such bizarre things. It is entirely unprofessional and outrageous for an ABA consultant to state such opinions about the medical choices that you make for your child! Not only is it none of their business, they are openly insulting your competence as a parent to make decisions on behalf of your child. I would fire such a person on the drop of a dime. Our consultant does not think bio-medical is viable but he only told us this when we ASKED him and the topic has never been raised again. Do you have a choice of providers in your area?

Our supervisor supports bio-med because she's had enough clinical experience to see the difference in the kids who are undergoing bio-med and those who aren't. I waver in my thinking about bio-med, some days I think it is everything and other days I wonder what the heck I'm doing and if it is really making any difference at all. But then something happens like recently when I ran out of his CF formula, put him back on the dairy formula and he regressed to an almost vegetative state and the tutors had to cancel their sessions, even two of them together could not work with him. My child would ultimately be institutionalised if I did not pursue biomed. Then I remember why I'm doing this. I don't need any studies to tell me that it's the milk, folks, it ain't the bloody weather causing such severe behavioural challenges.

It sounds like you are taking the right approach, just keeping it to yourself. But it does help when your team is on your side. My tutors help to give supplements and want to be clued up when changes are made so they can take that into account in their functional analysis.

I wish you the best, it sounds like it isn't easygoing for you.

Take care,

Darla ~just can't shut me up today. ;-)

In a message dated 05/09/2006 15:32:03 GMT Standard Time, oneill_liam@... writes:

It's certainly a proven therapy and we're sinking a lot of time, effort and cash into keeping our son's ABA programme working. But there is a certain "cult" feeling to it. Our senior therapist has complete blinkered vision. Only ABA can cure autism. For everything else "there is no data". They actually got my team of therapsits to chant that repeatedly as part of their induction/training. And there is a cult leader who visits twice a year, extorts ridiculous "contributions" and is so fantastic and "all-knowing" that her "wisdom" cannot be questioned.She went to great trouble to outline why no other therapy or biomedical treatment should even be tried. Even vitamins were ridiculed.One of the trainees got torn apart for pointing out that vitamins are good for you. Ridiculous notion for which "there is no data" appearantly.I'd find it funny, if it wasn't so scary.And if they ever found out about my son's chelation, they've made it clear that they'd pull out of his treatment programme.

[Guest guest]

I've been to quite a few and I've never heard of a conference

needing " bouncers " . Generally, there's someone on the door who asks

for proof of registration and if you don't have it, you're politely

told that you can't enter. No need for physical intimidation.

As for refusing to allow someone to register - If the theories and

experiments that are presented are ever to be believed, then they

have to be open to genuine questioning and criticism. If you choke

debate, then you'll be accused of running a cult. After all, isn't

that one of the criticisms that Fits levels against ABA? A

lack of ability to accept and respond to critical evaluation?

If we want these theories to be accepted, then we have to be able to

listen to rigorous questions and offer comprehensive answers that

prove the point. Otherwise, you can keep telling people that it's

mercury, viral, etc. for ever and the established medical community

won't listen.

Well, that's my take on things.

>

>

> In a message dated 04/09/2006 21:15:09 GMT Daylight Time,

> claire_downey@... writes:

>

> Whilst I find him a pain I would be more worried about certain

> journalists applying....journalists applying....<WBR>......

> preservatives challenge live on the good doctor or the not so

good

> journalist in question before allowing them to attend......jour

>

>

>

> PS but seriously have you thougt about security?

>

>

>

> >>>I told AW in Cambridge we would have a brick in our briefcases

in case

> twat Deer turns up, laughed so much he nearly choaked (?sp)!

>

> BIC has its own security and I shall be lead bouncer for TA lol

What options

> do we have? Idea's?

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/09/2006 15:59:18 GMT Daylight Time, claire_downey@... writes:

That is my worry also - The Channel 4 program was all about attacking AW and not about the science, it was poor journalism at best, a personal vendetta. It also labelled parents like us as vulnerable gullible twits which I could do without and it misrepresents and distorts everything, detracting from the real issues that the conference is all about.

>>>I am with you nad I wnat the Q & A to be about Q & A and not a platform for peeps like FP and Deer. Maybe Maragaret Cook would scare em off?

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Absolutely agree with that, but then in case of that moron B Deer I very

much doubt that he is interested in medical/scientific truth in any

shape of form. He has made a career of dragging people through the mud

and I don't see why he would want to stop now.

I would seriously doubt his intentions and his motives if he were to

come to the conference. On the other hand if you stop him from coming he

can twists the reasons furthere... huh, think Mandi's red brick approach

is probably the only one!

Natasa

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 04/09/2006 21:15:09 GMT Daylight Time,

> > claire_downey@ writes:

> >

> > Whilst I find him a pain I would be more worried about certain

> > journalists applying....journalists applying....<WBR>......

> > preservatives challenge live on the good doctor or the not so

> good

> > journalist in question before allowing them to attend......jour

> >

> >

> >

> > PS but seriously have you thougt about security?

> >

> >

> >

> > >>>I told AW in Cambridge we would have a brick in our briefcases

> in case

> > twat Deer turns up, laughed so much he nearly choaked (?sp)!

> >

> > BIC has its own security and I shall be lead bouncer for TA lol

> What options

> > do we have? Idea's?

> >

> > Mandi x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It's certainly a proven therapy and we're sinking a lot of time,

effort and cash into keeping our son's ABA programme working. But

there is a certain " cult " feeling to it.

Our senior therapist has complete blinkered vision. Only ABA can

cure autism. For everything else " there is no data " . They actually

got my team of therapsits to chant that repeatedly as part of their

induction/training. And there is a cult leader who visits twice a

year, extorts ridiculous " contributions " and is so fantastic

and " all-knowing " that her " wisdom " cannot be questioned.

She went to great trouble to outline why no other therapy or

biomedical treatment should even be tried. Even vitamins were

ridiculed.

One of the trainees got torn apart for pointing out that vitamins

are good for you. Ridiculous notion for which " there is no data "

appearantly.

I'd find it funny, if it wasn't so scary.

And if they ever found out about my son's chelation, they've made it

clear that they'd pull out of his treatment programme.

>

>

> In a message dated 05/09/2006 13:49:00 GMT Standard Time,

> oneill_liam@... writes:

>

> After all, isn't

> that one of the criticisms that Fits levels against ABA? A

> lack of ability to accept and respond to critical evaluation?

>

>

>

> Wow, I'd say if there is ANY methodological approach that has

received

> scrutiny, been challenged, studies been replicated and ultimately

justified, it's

> ABA. The research backs it up...we've been doing our proposal

and have found

> so many studies, criticisms, endorsements, etc, it's phenomenal.

The US

> Surgeon General, National Institutes of Mental Health, the

American Psychiatric

> Paediatric Society...etc, etc...all endorse behavioural analysis

as a valid

> treatment for pervasive developmental disorders and do not

consider it

> experimental any longer. Lovaas intial 1985 study has been

replicated in numerous

> countries around the world with consistent results...

>

> Does he honestly think that ABA hasn't been criticised and held to

public

> and theoretical scrutiny? In fact, the splinter groups that use a

variety of

> approaches, the VB variant, etc have all developed out of

reasonable

> criticisms of ABA. It is stunning to think that he holds such an

antiquated view of

> ABA. ESPECIALLY SINCE HIS OWN SON ATTENDS AN ABA SCHOOL.

>

> Sorry....rant over/

>

> Must get to the shop.

> Darla

>

[Guest guest]

That is my worry also - The Channel 4 program was all about attacking

AW and not about the science, it was poor journalism at best, a

personal vendetta. It also labelled parents like us as vulnerable

gullible twits which I could do without and it misrepresents and

distorts everything, detracting from the real issues that the

conference is all about.

JMHO FWIW

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 04/09/2006 21:15:09 GMT Daylight Time,

> > > claire_downey@ writes:

> > >

> > > Whilst I find him a pain I would be more worried about certain

> > > journalists applying....journalists applying....<WBR>......

> > > preservatives challenge live on the good doctor or the not so

> > good

> > > journalist in question before allowing them to attend......jour

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > PS but seriously have you thougt about security?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >>>I told AW in Cambridge we would have a brick in our

briefcases

> > in case

> > > twat Deer turns up, laughed so much he nearly choaked (?sp)!

> > >

> > > BIC has its own security and I shall be lead bouncer for TA lol

> > What options

> > > do we have? Idea's?

> > >

> > > Mandi x

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To be fair, most of the team would be fine. It's just the lead tutor

that's blinkered and the rest are just doing as they are told.

Unfortunately, ABA service options are limited in my part of the

world, so I'm happy to let things go along peacefully for now.

I know that many ABA tutors are far more open - I met one last week

(Annie) working with Lorene Amet in Ed. and she was great. Really

into the combo effect of ABA and biomed.

Life is never easy with an autistic kid in the mix!!!!

>

>

> Wow. Liam, that's incredible. I have to say, that's not what

I've

> encountered here. I know about 5 different families locally

running ABA programmes

> and none of their consultants would do such bizarre things. It

is entirely

> unprofessional and outrageous for an ABA consultant to state such

opinions

> about the medical choices that you make for your child! Not only

is it none of

> their business, they are openly insulting your competence as a

parent to make

> decisions on behalf of your child. I would fire such a person on

the drop of

> a dime. Our consultant does not think bio-medical is viable but

he only

> told us this when we ASKED him and the topic has never been raised

again. Do you

> have a choice of providers in your area?

>

> Our supervisor supports bio-med because she's had enough clinical

experience

> to see the difference in the kids who are undergoing bio-med and

those who

> aren't. I waver in my thinking about bio-med, some days I think

it is

> everything and other days I wonder what the heck I'm doing and if

it is really

> making any difference at all. But then something happens like

recently when I ran

> out of his CF formula, put him back on the dairy formula and he

regressed to

> an almost vegetative state and the tutors had to cancel their

sessions, even

> two of them together could not work with him. My child would

ultimately be

> institutionalised if I did not pursue biomed. Then I remember

why I'm doing

> this. I don't need any studies to tell me that it's the milk,

folks, it

> ain't the bloody weather causing such severe behavioural

challenges.

>

> It sounds like you are taking the right approach, just keeping it

to

> yourself. But it does help when your team is on your side. My

tutors help to give

> supplements and want to be clued up when changes are made so they

can take

> that into account in their functional analysis.

>

> I wish you the best, it sounds like it isn't easygoing for you.

>

> Take care,

> Darla ~just can't shut me up today. ;-)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 05/09/2006 15:32:03 GMT Standard Time,

> oneill_liam@... writes:

>

> It's certainly a proven therapy and we're sinking a lot of time,

> effort and cash into keeping our son's ABA programme working. But

> there is a certain " cult " feeling to it.

> Our senior therapist has complete blinkered vision. Only ABA can

> cure autism. For everything else " there is no data " . They

actually

> got my team of therapsits to chant that repeatedly as part of

their

> induction/training. And there is a cult leader who visits twice a

> year, extorts ridiculous " contributions " and is so fantastic

> and " all-knowing " that her " wisdom " cannot be questioned.

>

> She went to great trouble to outline why no other therapy or

> biomedical treatment should even be tried. Even vitamins were

> ridiculed.

> One of the trainees got torn apart for pointing out that vitamins

> are good for you. Ridiculous notion for which " there is no data "

> appearantly.

>

> I'd find it funny, if it wasn't so scary.

>

> And if they ever found out about my son's chelation, they've made

it

> clear that they'd pull out of his treatment programme.

>

[Guest guest]

why should I be wasting precious energy on worrying about idiots like FP

> and Deer.

> So I can't personally see how KIDS (or anybody else for that matter)

are

> going to benefit by either of them attending the conference let alone

asking

> questions.

>

Completely with you there. Lets just hope they do not apply to attend!

Natasa