Re: the big joke-- UV rays and skin cancer

August 29, 2003

In a message dated 8/29/03 10:13:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> That's pretty remarkable. However, there must be increased UV at least in

> some parts of the world due to the depletion of the ozone layer. How else

> do you explain the increased pigmentation response of Antarctic birds, for

> example?

No idea... but since the effects of pollution would be expected to be

somewhat local, it makes sense that Anartica would be affected less. However, I

don't think folks living in Antarctica are getting skin cancer :-)

Chris

August 30, 2003

Thanks a lot chris what am I gonna do with my wide brimmed

sunglasses and my UV repellant pajamas now. Please stop confusing

me with the facts. ;-P

> I'm sure you're all familiar with the pathetic excuse for the

proliferation

> of skin cancer-- that it is caused by UV rays, hence we should

never leave the

> house between 10 and 2 unless we have at least 30 SPF sunblock,

longsleeve

> shirts, pants, and a wide brimmed hat with UV-protecting

sunglasses.

>

> One of the ideas behind this is that the ozone layer depletion has

caused an

> increase in UV rays.

>

> In fact this is 100% completely false, and while I read this on a

different

> subject days ago, I suddently made the connection randomly today

in my mind.

>

> Walters cites the Mount Observatory in California

(Ecofarm, p

> 48) which has determined that there has been a 26% DECREASE in

ultraviolet

> light intensity over the last 50 years, attributed to pollutants.

Overall light

> intensity has dropped 10% by their figures and 14% according to

the

> sonian Institute, but UV light has actually taken by far the

biggest drop, so not

> only is less light available but a much smaller portion of that

light intensity

> is UV rays now.

>

> Chris

>

August 30, 2003

Chris

There is also a theory that sun tan lotions can cause skin cancer.

And wearing sun glasses which block UV rays is unhealthy.

I'd like to learn more about it really. However, can't see myself

stopping the sun tan lotion as I burn very easily and there's no way

I'm staying indoors during the best (sunniest) weeks of the year!

Jo

> I'm sure you're all familiar with the pathetic excuse for the

proliferation

> of skin cancer-- that it is caused by UV rays, hence we should

never leave the

> house between 10 and 2 unless we have at least 30 SPF sunblock,

longsleeve

> shirts, pants, and a wide brimmed hat with UV-protecting sunglasses.

>

> One of the ideas behind this is that the ozone layer depletion has

caused an

> increase in UV rays.

>

> In fact this is 100% completely false, and while I read this on a

different

> subject days ago, I suddently made the connection randomly today in

my mind.

>

> Walters cites the Mount Observatory in California

(Ecofarm, p

> 48) which has determined that there has been a 26% DECREASE in

ultraviolet

> light intensity over the last 50 years, attributed to pollutants.

Overall light

> intensity has dropped 10% by their figures and 14% according to the

> sonian Institute, but UV light has actually taken by far the

biggest drop, so not

> only is less light available but a much smaller portion of that

light intensity

> is UV rays now.

>

August 30, 2003

I've had the same experience and I'm quite fair skinned. I think coconut oil

does wonders in that dept.

Elainie

August 30, 2003

Chris-

That's pretty remarkable. However, there must be increased UV at least in

some parts of the world due to the depletion of the ozone layer. How else

do you explain the increased pigmentation response of Antarctic birds, for

example?

>Overall light

>intensity has dropped 10% by their figures and 14% according to the

>sonian Institute, but UV light has actually taken by far the biggest

>drop, so not

>only is less light available but a much smaller portion of that light

>intensity

>is UV rays now.

-

August 30, 2003

Jo-

I've heard -- and, I think, experienced myself -- that rearranging your fat

consumption to be much more saturated (IOW cutting out most unsaturates and

replacing them with things like coconut oil and beef fat) will, over time,

dramatically reduce your tendency to burn as the unsaturated (particularly

polyunsaturated) acids your body has incorporated into its cell membranes

and whatnot gradually get replaced with saturated ones. Obviously there

are no dietary absolutes -- and there shouldn't be -- but I used to burn

much more easily, so I think it's true. It could be that eating more fat

overall in addition to making sure it's much more saturated will accelerate

the process, but I don't know for sure.

>However, can't see myself

>stopping the sun tan lotion as I burn very easily and there's no way

>I'm staying indoors during the best (sunniest) weeks of the year!

-

August 30, 2003

At 10:13 PM 8/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>However, there must be increased UV at least in

>some parts of the world due to the depletion of the ozone layer. How else

>do you explain the increased pigmentation response of Antarctic birds, for

>example?

Now I wonder if those birds get more cancer? hmmmm. ;-)

-=mark=-

August 30, 2003

At 10:28 PM 8/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>I've heard -- and, I think, experienced myself -- that rearranging your fat

>consumption to be much more saturated (IOW cutting out most unsaturates and

>replacing them with things like coconut oil and beef fat) will, over time,

>dramatically reduce your tendency to burn as the unsaturated (particularly

>polyunsaturated) acids your body has incorporated into its cell membranes

>and whatnot gradually get replaced with saturated ones. Obviously there

>are no dietary absolutes -- and there shouldn't be -- but I used to burn

>much more easily, so I think it's true. It could be that eating more fat

>overall in addition to making sure it's much more saturated will accelerate

>the process, but I don't know for sure.

My experience over the past 5 years on a raw food diet (meats included)

together with plenty of raw fats has made me much more resistance to

burning here in the L.A. area. It is significantly different than, say, 7

years ago when I would burn fairly easily and peel. I can almost burn now

but never peel anymore. I think it is not only the fats but that I do not

bathe on days I will take the sun - thereby keeping my natural skin oils

intact for the rays.

-=mark=-

August 30, 2003

Hi

That makes sense. However, I have been eating a diet high in

saturated fats for over 3 years now, however I still use olive oil

sometimes, and I still burn easily. however, I don't know how easily

compared to 5 years ago.

Jo

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Jo-

>

> I've heard -- and, I think, experienced myself -- that rearranging

your fat

> consumption to be much more saturated (IOW cutting out most

unsaturates and

> replacing them with things like coconut oil and beef fat) will,

over time,

> dramatically reduce your tendency to burn as the unsaturated

(particularly

> polyunsaturated) acids your body has incorporated into its cell

membranes

> and whatnot gradually get replaced with saturated ones. Obviously

there

> are no dietary absolutes -- and there shouldn't be -- but I used to

burn

> much more easily, so I think it's true. It could be that eating

more fat

> overall in addition to making sure it's much more saturated will

accelerate

>

August 30, 2003

In a message dated 8/30/03 10:02:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> You could still have dietary issues to address, but also, it can take a

> long time -- and no doubt the more excess unsaturates you start out with,

> the longer it's going to take.

I wonder if the turnover rate is higher the more fat/SFA you consume per body

weight or per unit of body fat? I'm 5'8 " with pretty low body fat and

consume 200 and sometimes as much as 300 grams of saturated fat in a day, and I

seem

to have considerably increased my sun burning/recovery toleration over the

last year and a half.

Chris

August 30, 2003

Hi Jo, I read somewhere that it can take up to four years to

eliminate the bad fats accummulated in the fatty tissues. But it can

be speeded up by doing a detox/purfication program developed by

Hubbard in 1957. See my separate post on this program.

Bee

> > Jo-

> >

> > I've heard -- and, I think, experienced myself -- that

rearranging

> your fat

> > consumption to be much more saturated (IOW cutting out most

> unsaturates and

> > replacing them with things like coconut oil and beef fat) will,

> over time,

> > dramatically reduce your tendency to burn as the unsaturated

> (particularly

> > polyunsaturated) acids your body has incorporated into its cell

> membranes

> > and whatnot gradually get replaced with saturated ones.

Obviously

> there

> > are no dietary absolutes -- and there shouldn't be -- but I used

to

> burn

> > much more easily, so I think it's true. It could be that eating

> more fat

> > overall in addition to making sure it's much more saturated will

> accelerate

> >

August 30, 2003

I think both sunscreen and sunglasses are very bad ideas. The body *needs*

sunlight, and especially UV radiation, both on the bare eyes and on the skin,

for proper hormonal balance.

While excess UV radiation could contribute to free radical damage, the best

defense is, as Suze pointed out, plenty of carotenoids, along with high

saturated fat in the diet.

I've personally found that a good method is to build up sun tolerance by

controlled exposure to sun. Once you get some melanin in your skin you will be

much less likely to burn.

What I do is get as much sun as I can within the limits I know I won't burn

at, and slowly increase it. In less than two weeks I was able to build my sun

tolerance up by getting large exposure in shorts and no shirt in the early

morning and late afternoon, with 10-15 minutes between 10 and 2. I kept up my

early morning and late afternoon exposure to whatever I had time for, and

gradually increased my 10-2 exposure so that now I can go out in whatever kind

of

sun for basically however long I want with no sunscreen of any kind and not get

a burn.

It's a good idea, if you remember, to do this in the spring. I personally go

without a shirt outside whenever it's not too cold to. I don't know if this

is " macho " or whatever but if it is I mediate it by reading a book when I'm

walking around :-) Doing this early in the year has a surprising effect on sun

tolerance come summer, as well as creating a variety of hormones on the skin,

including adrenal hormones to give your adrenals a rest.

Chris

August 30, 2003

>>>>That makes sense. However, I have been eating a diet high in

saturated fats for over 3 years now, however I still use olive oil

sometimes, and I still burn easily. however, I don't know how easily

compared to 5 years ago.

---------->jo, one thing that might help is a carotenoid supplement and

carotenoid-rich foods before and during the months that you are tanning (see

below). although it may be too late to start now. carotenoids increase the

body's production of melanocytes (melanin), which protects against burning

and makes your skin more pigmented. i have a pet theory that equitorial

regions are particularly abundant in carotenoids in part as protection

against sun damage.

the past few summers i've used only CO whe sunbathing, except occassionally

putting some Aubrey Organics sun lotion on my face. i usually get a little

red the first or second time out, then just get a nice tan thereafter for

the rest of the summer. and i often sunbathe around midday when the sun is

strongest (although i'm in maine, so it's relative). i believe i was taking

beta-plex (carotenoid complex from Scientific Botanicals) most or all of

last summer. this summer i just forgot to order it earlier on, but started

taking it a few weeks ago, but it's probably too late to have much use as

far as sun protection goes for this year.

--------------------------

Evidence for antioxidant nutrients-induced pigmentation in skin: results of

a clinical trial.

Abstract

The aim of this study was to demonstrate that modification of the cellular

redox-equilibrium occurs as a consequence of antioxidant nutrients intake

(carotenoids, vitamine E and vitamine C) and that these nutrients play a

role in the pigmentation of the skin without any UV exposure. We conducted a

randomized, double-blind study in 20 healthy subjects to evaluate and to

compare the efficacy of two mixtures of dietary antioxidants with regard to

direct determination of melanin and carotenes by chromametry at selected

skin sites and multiple reflection spectrometry from a 1 cm2 region of skin

of different parts of the body. Efficacy was assessed by a significant

improvement of these parameters, in comparison with measurements performed

on the day of randomization, before dietary supplement intake. The

formulations per capsule of study dietary supplements are: 13 mg of

beta-carotene, 2 mg of lycopene, 5 mg of vitamine E and 30 mg of vitamine C

(B13/L2) or 3 mg of beta-carotene, 3 mg of lycopene, 5 mg of vitamine E and

30 mg of vitamine C (B3/L3). A 8-week B13/L2-supplementation lead to a

detectable carotenodermia whereas the B3/L3-supplementation not. Signicative

increase of melanin concentrations in skin were found after 4, 5, 6 and 8

weeks of dietary antioxidant intake in both groups (p < 0.05). These results

are discussed with regard to the redox control theory of melanocytes which

regulates the tyrosinase activity.

http://research.bmn.com/medline/jbrowse/record?uid=MDLN.97430972

--------------------------

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

August 30, 2003

Jo-

You could still have dietary issues to address, but also, it can take a

long time -- and no doubt the more excess unsaturates you start out with,

the longer it's going to take.

>That makes sense. However, I have been eating a diet high in

>saturated fats for over 3 years now, however I still use olive oil

>sometimes, and I still burn easily. however, I don't know how easily

>compared to 5 years ago.

-

August 30, 2003

The information I have from my training as a CNT (certified

nutritional therapist) is that " Sunburn easily, suffer sun poisoning,

or muscles easily fatigued " ...

" are all signs of essential fatty acid deficiency. There is also a

connection between these symptoms and a need for calicum and RNA

supplementation. Essential fatty acid deficiency is often due to a

biliary dysfunction, leading to imcomplete emulsification of fatty

acids. "

So they would be co-factors involved in EFA assimulation. Applying

the 5 foundations: digestion, mineral balance, fatty acid balance

blood sugar balance, and hydration, all play an important role. One

could be taking the best EFA and it may not be " the one " that is best

suite for ones particular body.

Janice

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Jo-

>

> You could still have dietary issues to address, but also, it can

take a

> long time -- and no doubt the more excess unsaturates you start out

with,

> the longer it's going to take.

>

> >That makes sense. However, I have been eating a diet high in

> >saturated fats for over 3 years now, however I still use olive oil

> >sometimes, and I still burn easily. however, I don't know how

easily

> >compared to 5 years ago.

>

> -

August 31, 2003

jopollack2001 wrote:

> I'd like to learn more about it really. However, can't see myself

> stopping the sun tan lotion as I burn very easily and there's no way

> I'm staying indoors during the best (sunniest) weeks of the year!

I've read on www.dcnutrition.com that 1/2 tsp MSM in water taken before exposing

yourself to the sun will protect you from burning. I hope I remembered the

dosage accurately. I also think that I've heard that coconut oil has a similar

effect.

Roman

August 31, 2003

Yes, but it needs to be noted that essential fatty acids are also

found in grass-fed animals, especially grass-fed butter. Dr. Mercola

has written that about the need for EFAs at:

http://www.mercola.com/2003/aug/2/sunscreen_cancer.htm

" However, I believe that it is the worsening omega-3:6 ratios, not

sunscreens, that are the cause of the increase in skin cancers. In

2001, the National Academy of Sciences published

a " http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/13/7510 " showing that the

omega 6:3 ratio was the key to preventing skin cancer development.

An " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8275194 & dopt=Abstract " done over 10

years ago showed a 40 percent reduction in melanoma for those who

were eating fish, which is rich in omega-3s. And this was without any

attention to lowering omega-6 fats.

Omega-3 and omega-6 fats are both essential for human health, however

the typical American consumes far too many omega-6 fats in their diet

while consuming very low levels of omega-3. While the ideal ratio of

omega-6 to omega-3 fats is 1:1, our ratio of omega-6 to omega-3

averages from 20:1 to 50:1! "

" You must exercise caution. At the beginning of the season go out in

the sun gradually, perhaps as little as 10 minutes a day.

Progressively increase your time in the sun so that in a few weeks

you will be able to have normal sun exposure with little risk of skin

cancer.

Remember never to get burned, that is the key. Remember also never

to use sunscreen, another key. You can creatively use your clothing

to block the sun's rays during your build-up time.

The bottom line is, please avoid getting sucked into the hype that

sunlight is dangerous. It is only dangerous if you are clueless about

fat nutrition, which most medical doctors are. If you choose to

ignore your omega 6:3 ratio and stay out of the sun, you could limit

your risk of skin cancer, but is that worth the risk of getting MS,

breast or prostate cancer? "

Bee

> > Jo-

> >

> > You could still have dietary issues to address, but also, it can

> take a

> > long time -- and no doubt the more excess unsaturates you start

out

> with,

> > the longer it's going to take.

> >

> > >That makes sense. However, I have been eating a diet high in

> > >saturated fats for over 3 years now, however I still use olive

oil

> > >sometimes, and I still burn easily. however, I don't know how

> easily

> > >compared to 5 years ago.

> >

> > -

August 31, 2003

Janice

Please could you expand a little on this? It has been

suggested I supplement with a high quality fish oil to

increase EFA to aid depression. the fact that I burn

easily may also indicate the need.

What is RNA supplementation?

And what does:

due to a

> biliary dysfunction, leading to imcomplete

> emulsification of fatty

> acids.

mean?

Thanks

Jo

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August 31, 2003

--- Roman <romeml@...> wrote: > jopollack2001

wrote:

> I've read on www.dcnutrition.com that 1/2 tsp MSM in

> water taken before exposing yourself to the sun will

> protect you from burning. I hope I remembered the

> dosage accurately. I also think that I've heard that

> coconut oil has a similar effect.

Thanks Roman.

What's MSM?

I've heard of using coconut oil ON the body, but most

people think this will just make me fry, instead of

protecting me!

Jo

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August 31, 2003

Jo

> Janice

> Please could you expand a little on this? It has been

> suggested I supplement with a high quality fish oil to

> increase EFA to aid depression. the fact that I burn

> easily may also indicate the need.

It is difficult to know for certain if a particular nutrient or

supplement will work with out being able to check the body and it's

responses. And this might be exactly what your body needs.

Every cell membrane is composed of a structural fat layer, every

nerve fiber is covered in a structural fat, fats provide source of

energy in our diet, and fats are the building blocks for cell

membranes and homones. EFA's are extremely important for good health

and over all well-being, including our moods.

>

> What is RNA supplementation?

First off RNA is one of the 2 nucleic acids, the other being DNA.

They both function as that of repeating building blocks. RNA is

copied from DNA but differs from DNA in several respects. One

different aspect is that DNA is doubled stranded, RNA is singled

stranded. Ribosomes are the sites of protein synthesis. Ribosomes

are named for their high content of RNA.

The product line that I am most familar with is Biotics. They have a

supplement, Nuclezyme-Forte, which is listed as a RNA/DNA B-Complex

formula. The RNA contained in the product is from yeast and the DNA

is from fish. It contains other things as well. If you want more

info I can send it to you personally. I do not want to take

advantage of this group by promoting a particular product, which I do

sell, and can't be purchased except through health care

professionals.

> And what does:

> due to a biliary dysfunction, leading to imcomplete

> emulsification of fatty acids mean?

>

The small intestine provides the main area for fat digestion. Bile

salts are secreted from the gall bladder and begin to emulsify the

fat globules into particles (micelles) making them miscible in water.

Pancreatic lipase breaks the clumps of triglycerides (fats) in the

micelles into their glycerol and constituent fatty acids, mono and

diglycerides and short and medium length chains of fatty acids.

The long and the short of that is the gallbladder is not able to do

it's job aiding in the absorbtion of fats and is needing some

assistance. And in most cases when there is a gallbladder issue

there is also a liver issue.

Janice

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August 31, 2003

In a message dated 8/31/03 10:05:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ---->this makes me wonder...are tanning beds dangerous? i've always been

> under the impression they are dangerous because of the UV radiation...is

> that wrong?

UV-C radiation might be harmful, which normally we wouldn't have exposure to

due to ozone but can get emitted by fluorescent lights. I don't know if

tanning beds emit UV-C, but I do know they primarily emit UV-A, which is NOT

dangerous and in fact is extremely healthful if you are not careless and do not

exceed a reasonable dose of radiation. Of course, nothing makes up for the full

spectrum of the sun, but if you are in a jam, tanning could be beneficial I

think.

Again, might want to check up on the UV-C possibility.

Chris

September 1, 2003

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:42:59 -0000

" jopollack2001 " <jopollack2001@...> wrote:

> Chris

>

> There is also a theory that sun tan lotions can cause skin cancer.

> And wearing sun glasses which block UV rays is unhealthy.

>

> I'd like to learn more about it really. However, can't see myself

> stopping the sun tan lotion as I burn very easily and there's no way

> I'm staying indoors during the best (sunniest) weeks of the year!

>

> Jo

Hi Jo,

This quote from Ray Peats article on coconut oil,

http://garcia.efn.org/~raypeat/coconut.rtf,

might be helpful for you:

In the l960s, Hartroft and Porta gave an elegant argument for decreasing

the ratio of unsaturated oil to saturated oil in the diet (and thus in

the tissues). They showed that the " age pigment " is produced in

proportion to the ratio of oxidants to antioxidants, multiplied by the

ratio of unsaturated oils to saturated oils. More recently, a variety

of studies have demonstrated that ultraviolet light induces peroxidation

in unsaturated fats, but not saturated fats, and that this occurs in the

skin as well as in vitro. Rabbit experiments, and studies of humans,

showed that the amount of unsaturated oil in the diet strongly affects

the rate at which aged, wrinkled skin develops. The unsaturated fat in

the skin is a major target for the aging and carcinogenic effects of

ultraviolet light, though not necessarily the only one.

September 1, 2003

>>>>In the l960s, Hartroft and Porta gave an elegant argument for decreasing