Re: juicing--why avoid it?

[Guest guest]

,

Why avoid juicing?? Simply because it isn't traditional? The only

disadvantage I see is the potentially increased glycemic index, which

won't be too high anyway considering it's vegetable juicing...

-

>

> > i've noticed that very little talk of juicing in NT and this

group. i eat very little veggies,

> and am juicing since it is easier to drink the stuff than to eat it.

can someone explain or

> speak of juicing vs. eating raw or cooked? thanks diana

> >

>

> Probably because in the NT world juices are not considered whole

foods. My own personal

> take is that they have a therapeutic use in fasting, either

spiritual or physical, and thus should be

> consumed on a cyclical basis at best. But as a normal

> item in the diet, other than very small quantities, they are best

avoided.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:25:11 -0000

" paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Why avoid juicing?? Simply because it isn't traditional? The only

> disadvantage I see is the potentially increased glycemic index, which

> won't be too high anyway considering it's vegetable juicing...

>

> -

>

Hi ,

I can think of several reasons why I would avoid the modern penchant for

juicing.

1. It is in fact not traditional. And while that is not the be all and

end all of the matter, it is certainly something to take into

consideration. After all, this group is based in part on a book called

Nourishing *Traditions*

Many paleo folks reject juicing on the grounds that it was not technologically

feasible to juice, and whatever juice our forbears got would have been

from small amounts through grinding plants with their teeth. While I

agree with their conclusion about the lack of juicing, I do not agree

with how they arrived there. I'm not much on the paleo way of thinking

and reasoning but that is a topic for another time. Suffice it to say, I

think much of it meanders off into the realm of the highly speculative.

Nonetheless, many cultures have always had the means to make juice but

did not. Wherever there was a grain mill or the ability to make oil or

wine there was the ability to make juice. And even if the only

technology you had was your own feet you could still make juice from

soft fruit. Why didn't that occur? And when it did why did these folks

ferment their juice rather than drink it straight?

If this is such a healthy practice why didn't anyone before our time

adopt such a practice, even on an occasional basis?

2. When vegetable juicing is done as a regular thing, there is the

problem of concentrating the anti-nutrients. Yes juicing is a marvelous

way to increase the valuable constituents found in the plant, and it can

have great short term healing benefits, and there are lots of wonderful

stories about the power of juices and juice fasting (me included) but I

think with long term *regular* use you can run into some problems.

Now this may in fact be a problem related to modern agriculture in terms

of the amount of anti-nutrients available, but if it is, it is a big

problem and one not going away anytime soon.

There are a number of people on the live food list who were originally

quite enthusiastic juicers, but had to moderate their intake over time

as the regular consumption of juices became a problem.

3. The very large increase in sugar content is a problem. Nourishing

Traditions says we shouldn't drink fruit juice, but there are high sugar

veggies as well. The most prominent juice plant is carrot, and it is

very high in sugar, as are beets. Now don't get me wrong, I think

juicing can have a place in the modern diet, just not as a staple of the

diet.

IMO, juicing is in the same category as many herbs, something to be used

on an occasional or cyclical basis, but not as a staple dietary item.

4. It seems to me that the very problems we try to overcome by

fermenting or cooking vegetables/fruits are magnified by juicing. The

liberation of juice from the fiber, while concentrating many nutrients,

also removes many protective factors, as well as leaving behind many

nutritional factors as well. The Vita-Mix people have been using a

pretty good marketing campaign over the years about how much is actually

left behind by juicing (up to 91% of the nutritional factors according

to them): see http://tinyurl.com/lihz

or

http://www.vitamix.com/household/whats_new/brochures/Healing_and_Good_Health.pdf

I would think that pot liquor (leftover water from cooked veggies)

and/or juice from fermented plants would be far more useful on a regular

basis. In fact on a number of long fasts I have used a concoction called

potassium broth, which is a liquid made from *cooked* veggies.

In short, I think one can benefit from juicing therapeutically. It would

be silly to deny the anecdotal evidence of the fantastic results many

have received from such use. There is also the *clinical* experience of

the modern fasting clinics and some Doctors. But again that is a

cyclical/therapeutic use not a regular one. I have found juicing to be a

great support in fasting as well.

But as dietary staple? ly I think that is a modern fad which is

alive and well in the alternative health movement, and needs to be

examined a lot more closely.

[Guest guest]

Heidi and all,

Just checking... I received an e-mail from someone I do not

knowsues@... with this message... " what do u think of

gluten free diet. do u know how to tell if u have celiac or if u are

gluten intolerance? perhap u will be interested in this site.

Your files are attached and ready to send with this message. "

Is this something that sometimes happens from being on this group,

people get an e-mail address and use that to solicit?

I have deleted the message and did not respond, but thought I'd check

with the rest of you.

Janice

[Guest guest]

At 08:28 AM 8/29/2003, you wrote:

>Just checking... I received an e-mail from someone I do not

>knowsues@... with this message... " what do u think of

>gluten free diet. do u know how to tell if u have celiac or if u are

>gluten intolerance? perhap u will be interested in this site.

I didn't get it (nor did I send it!).

I haven't gotten a lot of junk mail that seems based on this

group, though I do get private emails sometimes which is

ok with me (but if they look too much like junk mail,

beware, I'm quick on the delete key!).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:13:12 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> >could still make juice from

> >soft fruit. Why didn't that occur? And when it did why did these folks

> >ferment their juice rather than drink it straight?

>

> Probably one reason is for the same reason they drank most of their

> milk fermented -- lack of refrigerators! If you juice grapes

> and let them sit around, they are fermenting by the

> next day, or, if you don't do it right, molding.

Heidi,

Good point - but even refrigeration doesn't solve the problem. The juice

may not ferment or mold but it still loses its nutritional potency and

loses it rather quickly.

That is why all the old time fasting guys had you make and drink your

juice immediately. Today people will try to vacuum seal it or put

microhydin in it or what have you to slow down the decay process.

And the Eskimos, even in a cold climate, where presumably storage would

not be a problem, fermented their oil. Interesting.

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>Good point - but even refrigeration doesn't solve the problem. The juice

>may not ferment or mold but it still loses its nutritional potency and

>loses it rather quickly.

It also tastes lousy after a day. I used to hate carrot juice until I got some

FRESH.

But I still cannot, for the life of me, make myself juice them when

it's so easy to just eat the carrot!

I think you have to be REALLY MOTIVATED to juice fruit and/or

vegies. Now if you are a body builder or dieter, you

might be motivated. Or if you can just buy the juice at

a juice bar. Or if you have servants.

Now wine might motivate you too ... people will do a lot

for alcohol. Maybe even low levels of alcohol. But another

thing about wine etc. that doesn't come up much -- you

don't JUICE the berries to make wine, usually. You just mash

them up and let them set. The solids rise to the top then

sink to the bottom. And to make kvass or grain-alcohol

you can just soak the bread or grain in water and let it

ferment.

>And the Eskimos, even in a cold climate, where presumably storage would

>not be a problem, fermented their oil. Interesting.

Probably tastes better? My kefired jerky has the BEST TASTING fat I've

ever encountered. Kind of like good expensive salami. But that is

a good point ... there is more to fermenting than preservation.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:13:35 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

>

> >Heidi,

> >

> >Good point - but even refrigeration doesn't solve the problem. The juice

> >may not ferment or mold but it still loses its nutritional potency and

> >loses it rather quickly.

>

> It also tastes lousy after a day. I used to hate carrot juice until I got some

FRESH.

> But I still cannot, for the life of me, make myself juice them when

> it's so easy to just eat the carrot!

LOL! Now this I can identify with. I used to detest carrot juice as a

kid. Carrots as well. Ughh! But then one day my dad bought a juicer and

made some fresh juice and it was lovely.

>

> I think you have to be REALLY MOTIVATED to juice fruit and/or

> vegies. Now if you are a body builder or dieter, you

> might be motivated. Or if you can just buy the juice at

> a juice bar. Or if you have servants.

LOL!!!! Its pretty easy with some juicers like a champion, very time

consuming with others that require a lot of cleanup. And if you have a

vitamix it is even easier since you can juice the whole fruit (better

anyway) and just sweeten it to taste if necessary (or throw in a banana).

Why I'm Not A Conservative

http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker30.html

[Guest guest]

>LOL!!!! Its pretty easy with some juicers like a champion, very time

>consuming with others that require a lot of cleanup. And if you have a

>vitamix it is even easier since you can juice the whole fruit (better

>anyway) and just sweeten it to taste if necessary (or throw in a banana).

I have a Vitamix and it is great. I still just eat the silly carrot. I think

part of it is also that my reason for snacking is often that I want

to CRUNCH. I crunch ice a lot too. Mom always told me I was going

to break a tooth, but I say -- use it or lose it! Crunching makes

strong teeth!!!! I have no evidence for that, but I haven't cracked

any teeth (one did finally crack, but that was from a bad filling).

>

>Why I'm Not A Conservative

><http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker30.html>http://www.lewrockwell.com/tuc\

ker/tucker30.html

ROFL! You have a knack for good " trailers "

-- Heidi