Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 In a message dated 8/28/03 6:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, slethnobotanist@... writes: > I would think that pot liquor (leftover water from cooked veggies) > and/or juice from fermented plants would be far more useful on a regular > basis. In fact on a number of long fasts I have used a concoction called > potassium broth, which is a liquid made from *cooked* veggies. Depending on what you were cooking, that sounds like a nice big mug of oxalate tea. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:25:11 -0000 " paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...> wrote: > , > > Why avoid juicing?? Simply because it isn't traditional? The only > disadvantage I see is the potentially increased glycemic index, which > won't be too high anyway considering it's vegetable juicing... > > - > Hi , I can think of several reasons why I would avoid the modern penchant for juicing. 1. It is in fact not traditional. And while that is not the be all and end all of the matter, it is certainly something to take into consideration. After all, this group is based in part on a book called Nourishing *Traditions* Many paleo folks reject juicing on the grounds that it was not technologically feasible to juice, and whatever juice our forbears got would have been from small amounts through grinding plants with their teeth. While I agree with their conclusion about the lack of juicing, I do not agree with how they arrived there. I'm not much on the paleo way of thinking and reasoning but that is a topic for another time. Suffice it to say, I think much of it meanders off into the realm of the highly speculative. Nonetheless, many cultures have always had the means to make juice but did not. Wherever there was a grain mill or the ability to make oil or wine there was the ability to make juice. And even if the only technology you had was your own feet you could still make juice from soft fruit. Why didn't that occur? And when it did why did these folks ferment their juice rather than drink it straight? If this is such a healthy practice why didn't anyone before our time adopt such a practice, even on an occasional basis? 2. When vegetable juicing is done as a regular thing, there is the problem of concentrating the anti-nutrients. Yes juicing is a marvelous way to increase the valuable constituents found in the plant, and it can have great short term healing benefits, and there are lots of wonderful stories about the power of juices and juice fasting (me included) but I think with long term *regular* use you can run into some problems. Now this may in fact be a problem related to modern agriculture in terms of the amount of anti-nutrients available, but if it is, it is a big problem and one not going away anytime soon. There are a number of people on the live food list who were originally quite enthusiastic juicers, but had to moderate their intake over time as the regular consumption of juices became a problem. 3. The very large increase in sugar content is a problem. Nourishing Traditions says we shouldn't drink fruit juice, but there are high sugar veggies as well. The most prominent juice plant is carrot, and it is very high in sugar, as are beets. Now don't get me wrong, I think juicing can have a place in the modern diet, just not as a staple of the diet. IMO, juicing is in the same category as many herbs, something to be used on an occasional or cyclical basis, but not as a staple dietary item. 4. It seems to me that the very problems we try to overcome by fermenting or cooking vegetables/fruits are magnified by juicing. The liberation of juice from the fiber, while concentrating many nutrients, also removes many protective factors, as well as leaving behind many nutritional factors as well. The Vita-Mix people have been using a pretty good marketing campaign over the years about how much is actually left behind by juicing (up to 91% of the nutritional factors according to them): see http://tinyurl.com/lihz or http://www.vitamix.com/household/whats_new/brochures/Healing_and_Good_Health.pdf I would think that pot liquor (leftover water from cooked veggies) and/or juice from fermented plants would be far more useful on a regular basis. In fact on a number of long fasts I have used a concoction called potassium broth, which is a liquid made from *cooked* veggies. In short, I think one can benefit from juicing therapeutically. It would be silly to deny the anecdotal evidence of the fantastic results many have received from such use. There is also the *clinical* experience of the modern fasting clinics and some Doctors. But again that is a cyclical/therapeutic use not a regular one. I have found juicing to be a great support in fasting as well. But as dietary staple? ly I think that is a modern fad which is alive and well in the alternative health movement, and needs to be examined a lot more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 > But as dietary staple? ly I think that is a modern fad which is > alive and well in the alternative health movement, and needs to be > examined a lot more closely. bravo! Well done. Lynn S. ----- Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/ Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/ People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:45:39 EDT ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: > In a message dated 8/28/03 6:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > slethnobotanist@... writes: > > > I would think that pot liquor (leftover water from cooked veggies) > > and/or juice from fermented plants would be far more useful on a regular > > basis. In fact on a number of long fasts I have used a concoction called > > potassium broth, which is a liquid made from *cooked* veggies. > > Depending on what you were cooking, that sounds like a nice big mug of > oxalate tea. > > Chris Ha! I started to make a disclaimer to that effect. It does depend on what you are cooking and most recipes for potassium broth do not use high oxalate foods, although I doubt that is by design. Recall Arnold http://www.sobran.com/columns/2003/030812.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 >could still make juice from >soft fruit. Why didn't that occur? And when it did why did these folks >ferment their juice rather than drink it straight? Probably one reason is for the same reason they drank most of their milk fermented -- lack of refrigerators! If you juice grapes and let them sit around, they are fermenting by the next day, or, if you don't do it right, molding. I have to say though that since I've been drinking a fair bit of " kefir beer " , straight juice just seems unappealing. Too sweet. My body definitely likes the fermented version better. I can't speak to vegie juices, though kimchi juice is much, much more settling than any raw vegie or raw vegie juice I've had. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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