Re: Re: Chris, you are missing some facts

[Guest guest]

Hi-

>That is why society has tried to protect its youth. I was a witness to

>what happened to my brother who was sexually used as a child. So I know

>first hand that there are laws for a reason.

I can't authoritatively speak for of course, but I think I have a

pretty good idea of where he's coming from, and while he and I and you

might all disagree, I don't think he was espousing the unreasonable

position you think he is.

His basic point was twofold: maturity doesn't appear after a cusp, but is a

gradual development, and different people mature at different times and at

different rates. So he was suggesting that just as the idea that everyone

younger than 18 is ill-equipped to vote and everyone magically becomes

fully competent to vote at the age of 18 is absurd, the idea that everyone

is ready for sexual relationships at the same age threshold is silly. And

as far as that goes, I agree with him. Compromises have to be made in

these things for the purpose of practicality, so there's inevitably going

to be some irrationality in any system no matter how the transition is

handled, but our compromise may be too simplistic.

and I may differ in our relative faith in the protective power of the

institution of family, but again, that's a matter for rational discussion,

not heated debate and outrage. What happened to your brother is appalling,

and I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but I really don't

think he was talking about abuse, unless you'd call it abuse for a guy

who's just turned 18 to sleep with his 17-years-and-11-months-old girlfriend.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

> What happened to your brother is appalling,

> and I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but I really

don't

> think he was talking about abuse, unless you'd call it abuse for a guy

> who's just turned 18 to sleep with his 17-years-and-11-months-old

girlfriend.

I know it's not really relevant to the main point, but the age of

consent is 18 in only seven states and 17 in six states. In most states

it's 16.

[Guest guest]

>That is why society has tried to protect its youth. I

I'm sure there are lots of stories from young mature women who feel otherwise,

but I have to bring up a sheer biological fact: girls get pregnant. Young men

don't. Whether or not the girl is willing, I have seen personally just too many

young girls wind up with babies, whether or not they believed in birth control,

whether or not they believed in abortion. Hormones are hormones! And they take

over your brain, esp. when you are 14! And the fact of the matter is, it is

usually the young girl that ends up with the results. Girls are usually more at

risk for STD's too.

As a society, we do have a double standard as a result. Traditionally, everyone

protects the girls, but guys can " sow their wild oats " (as long as it is not

with a " good " girl). Personally I think the idea of sending a 14-year old girl

on a date alone in a car is not a good idea, based in large part on the fact

that it was allowed for me -- I dated a 24-year-old guy. Gads was I dumb! So, I

think, were my parents.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

If I had a 14 year old daughter, chances I'd want her on a date with a 24

year old are slim to none. As a 21 year old, chances *I'd* date a 14 year old

are less than none, as far as I can tell. From life experience, level of

education, living arrangements, and everything that would impact someone's

development, a 24 year old should be in a totally different world than a 14 year

old,

in which case a relationship is obviously not appropriate. That's not

necessarily true for a 17 and 14 or 18 and 15.

(And it *seems* anyway that there might be something wrong with a 24 year old

who wants to date a 14 year old. [nevertheless i've known several girls who

have been in such relationships to no detriment].)

Some 16 year olds are sophomores in high school and some 16 year olds are

freshmen or perhaps possibly even sophomores in college, so there is clearly

wide

variation to be found. One could offer innumerable examples of sexual

relationships that would be inappropriate for innumerable 15 year olds, but none

of

them negate the fact that for some 15 year olds some sexual relationships with

some people might possibly be appropriate, which is why these things should

be viewed on a case by case basis rather than making sweeping generalizations

about which age is old enough to date or this or that etc, etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Personally I think the idea of sending a 14-year old girl on a date

> alone in a car is not a good idea, based in large part on the fact

> that it was allowed for me -- I dated a 24-year-old guy. Gads was I

> dumb! So, I think, were my parents.

As the mother of two girls, yes, they were! I can't even imagine

allowing a 14-year-old girl to KNOW any 24-year-old guys let alone date

one! Good gravy.

Lynn S.

contemplating locking my girls in a convent til they're 30...

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[Guest guest]

Quoting ChrisMasterjohn@...:

> One could offer innumerable examples of sexual

> relationships that would be inappropriate for innumerable 15 year olds,

> but none of

> them negate the fact that for some 15 year olds some sexual relationships

> with

> some people might possibly be appropriate, which is why these things

> should

> be viewed on a case by case basis rather than making sweeping

> generalizations

> about which age is old enough to date or this or that etc, etc.

The problem, of course, is that it's difficult to translate this into law.

If the Supreme Court, allegedly composed of the most brilliant legal minds

in the country, can't be trusted to interpret the simple, cut-and-dry

language of the Constitution with the competence one would expect from a

sixth-grade Korean schoolboy whose exposure to English was limited to a few

seasons of Baywatch, just think what a disaster it would be to trust the

rank-and-file judges to make actual discretionary judgments.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

>(And it *seems* anyway that there might be something wrong with a 24 year old

>who wants to date a 14 year old. [nevertheless i've known several girls who

>have been in such relationships to no detriment].)

Well, in this case it was a cultural thing. The family was Philipino, with

14 kids, and he was the next in line to get married. The family

liked me, and decided I should marry him, so he was " set up " to

marry me and therefore dated me. Me, being totally clueless,

just thought it was neat that he actually had a car and could take

me to movies. Fortunately he really WAS a nice guy, and the family

was really nice too. They lived across the street and the cooking

was superb!

But like I said, my own daughter would never get to do that!

One of the downsides of the " arranged marriage " concept

is that it was ALSO assumed that the guy of the house would

keep a mistress on the side, which was the point where my

cultural acceptance kind of broke down.

-- Heidi