Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hi Natasa and Sara, A very interesting conversation! Thanks so much Sara for raising the topic. No, it was not an easy decision, like Natasa, we agonised over the decision to cut out Serbian (or Serbo-Croat) from our son's life. Between my husband and I we have 4 nationalities and we are raising our son in a country that is not native to either of us. I am from the USA and also have citizenship in the Cherokee Nation, my dh has Serbian and British citizenship. My dh speaks English to native fluency (he has lived in the UK for 20 years) and I speak English with a very weird Texan/London/Eastern European accent. In fact, I would say that my English is probably *worse* than my dh's! My dh spoke exclusively in Serbian to and I spoke concurrently in English/Serbian. We consulted with three ABA/VB therapists who all said that their preference would be monolingual until was up to fluency and acquisition with his peers. We realise that there is absolutely no empirical evidence to back this up, this is purely anecdotal. My dh even corresponded with Noam Chomsky (the world's most famous linguist, LOL) regarding the acquisition of language for an autist in a bilingual home and also regarding the use of a behaviouralist approach (ala Skinner's VB). You may know that Chomsky challenged or deconstructed Skinner's theoretical approach to language and essentially revolutionised theoretical linguistics with his *generative grammar* approach. The implication of his work being that language is naturally acquired or innate to humans and not a purely behavioural acquisition (apologies to any of you who have theoretical training, please correct me if I am wrong here- my dh did most of the reading on this.) Since my dh and I are not pure behaviouralists by any stretch of the imagination, we are somewhat reluctant to buy entirely into the theoretical and philosophical approach that VB espouses. But with the mind of an Autist we are speaking of a whole other world all together and at this point we *think* that language acquisition for the autistic atypical neurological development might justify a behaviouralist approach. One critical aspect of the behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment so I guess that was one of the driving factors behind our choice to speak one language. I have to admit though that both of your experiences shed some new light on this topic for us and we may revisit this decision since both of you feel that your bilingual homes have not hindered your child in any way. At the time we made the decision we did not understand the extent of 's autism or delays. We now understand that he shows no signs of cognitive delay (although this does not of course mean that he will develop language in any semblance to that of a neuro-typical child!!) and he is classified as *high-functioning*. Given this further information, we may choose to speak again to him bilingually. I posted on the ABA-UK site and received three replies of families who had dropped second and third languages and one whose son has Asperger's and was absolutely thrilled with the introduction of the second language (which also included the use of the Cyrillic alphabet!) I would be interested to hear any further comments and anyone else's experience. This has been a difficult decision and as Natasa commented if we are going to maintain a second language it is best to keep going with it at this point rather than wait. Sorry to be so long-winded!!! Darla In a message dated 09/07/2006 21:30:42 GMT Standard Time, neno@... writes: I absolutely agree with Sara. If there is a language acquisitionproblemit is going to be the same regardless of the number oflanguages usedaround the child. I really do not believe now (and wedid agonise overthis for a while) that two or more languages make itharder to absorbthan just one. If a child is ready/able to startacquiring language/s, heor she will just do that. Regardless of thenumber of languages they aresurrounded with.As Sara said, if your language is important to you, you should sticktoit now and not leave it for later. Another important matter toconsideris whether your and your husband english is to the to thenativespeaker's level? If not, it is really not advisable to use it withyourchild (from a linguistics point of view), as it is NOT going tosoundthe same to the 'other' (ie native) english is exposed to. Sotohim the english he hears at home from you and the english hehearsoutside might sound like two languages anyway.Btw CONGRATULATIONS on the progress is making!!!!Natasap.s. Sara, same here, Luka not being billingual enough or verbalenough(and not old enough either) to share a good sucess story, but hopetohave an update on it soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Sorry, Sara, I almost wrote back to re-phrase that because obviously if one person always speaks one language and another always speaks another language, that is consistent, isn't it?!! What I actually meant can perhaps be better phrased as *congruency of environment*. Please forgive me here, I have only a very cursory knowledge of all this and I'm very tired, lol. By congruency, I mean that if is being prompted to say *bye bye* by his therapists/tutors and by me and then prompted to say a different word (in a different language) in the same situation by his father, there is an incongruency there. In my rudimentary knowledge of behaviouralism this would be considered to be an impediment because of the incongruency. Does that make sense? My understanding is that it is important that the environment that has outside of his structured therapy time is congruent with the approach used during the therapy time. Please, disagree with me! I'm open to discussing this. Darla In a message dated 10/07/2006 15:16:38 GMT Standard Time, Moroza-@... writes: Hi Darla, When you say one critical aspect of the behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment, what does that mean? Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Sara, that is very promising. How old is your son now? Excuse my brain on standstill this morning, what does VB stand for? Natasa > > > > > > Hi Darla, > > > > > > I haven�t read all �s update yet because I was > > distracted by you saying > > > you are now only speaking English to him. I just wanted to say that > > > ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE advised us to stop speaking Lithuanian to Tom > but > > we > > > kept on speaking it (my husband is Lithuanian and only speaks to him > > in > > > Lithuanian � I speak to him in English). And I honestly believe > > we made the > > > right choice. At one point we mearly gave up but my friend who lives > > in > > > Paris visited us with her two children, one of whom had severe > > language > > > delay. This little girl had recently started getting speech therapy > in > > > French and as her French improved so did her English. Tom�s not > > yet verbal > > > enough or bilingual enough to show you a fantastic story but I do > not > > > believe that Lithuanian has held him back. In fact I think it�s > > been good > > > brain/ vocal exercise for him. How important is your other language > to > > you? > > > if you want to talk to me at all about this I would love to talk to > > you. my > > > number�s 01752 265085. incidentally, anyone else out there who > is > > bringing > > > their ASD child up bilingually, I would love you to phone too. > > > > > > Sara xxx > > > > > > > > > > > > [Autism-Biomedical---Europe] Update on (looong!) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's only been almost 6 weeks now since we first realised that our > son > > had > > > ASD. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, frightened and down so I thought > > I > > > might write about the interventions that we've made and the > incredible > > > progress that has made in such a short time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started keeping a diary on him 5 weeks ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are the changes that we've made: > > > > > > 1 dramatic reduction in our vocabulary to noun/verb only and stopped > > > speaking bi-lingually to him - we are only speaking English (6 weeks > > now) > > > > > > 2 AFP Peptizyde - very erratically will take this, just trying to > get > > 1/2 > > > capsule down him a day but not always succeeding!! (5 weeks now) > > > > > > 3 Bio-Kult probiotic - worked up to 1 capsule (4 weeks now) > > > > > > 4 Transitioned to 1/2 Kallo rice drink, 1/2 regular infant formula - > > > > > drinks 8 to 9 bottles of infant formula a day so this reduces him to > > half > > > the caesin he was previously ingesting. (3 weeks) also trying to get > > him to > > > eat GF crackers, etc. but not totally eliminated gluten yet. > > > > > > 5 Reduced Gaviscon Infant from 2 sachets per bottle to 1 sachet (3 > > weeks) > > > (this is reflux medication) > > > > > > 6 Physiotherapy - two sessions and increased vestibular and other > > sensory > > > stimulation (3 weeks) > > > > > > 7 Zinc Drops (6 days) > > > > > > 8 Reduced Losec PPI (reflux med) to half previous dose (5 days) > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I can't believe the changes. The single most notable and > > > consistent change was with the start of the probiotic. He > immediately > > > brightened up with it and when I increased from 1/2 to 1 he had more > > energy > > > and less frustration. He is a very low energy boy with lots of > > whining and > > > wanting to be held, etc. His stools have consistently darkened and > > bulked up > > > (from bright yellow diahreah) and are now averaging two a day rather > > than 5 > > > or 6 a day. The vinegar smell is gone from his stools (although > today > > he > > > had a bad diahhreah vinegary one for the first time in a few weeks). > > > > > > > > > > > > Six weeks ago, (10 days after his 2nd birthday) his dad and I sat in > > the > > > SLT's office trying to think of ANY words that he could understand > to > > > demonstrate his receptive communication skills. The only one that we > > could > > > think that he half understood was *bye bye* otherwise he had NO > > receptive > > > communication. He also had almost no expressive communicative skills > > (other > > > than biting, hitting, hair pulling, tantruming!!--). In the last 6 > > weeks he > > > has progressed to taking our hands to objects, to demonstrating that > > he > > > wants his coat off, his shoes off, he wants me to put him up down, > > that he > > > wants me to button his top button, and then on to echoing what we > are > > > saying. He has said: up (uh) down (dah) cracker (kah kuh) Let's go > > (skooo!) > > > who's here? (sss heeah?) squirrel (skaa) and a few others that I > > didn't > > > write down. One day he spontaneously said Uh uh uh, dah dah dah when > > he > > > went up and down some steps. One night when I put him in his cot he > > yelled > > > *dah dah dah!* indicating that he wanted down! He is not, however, > > using > > > this language to request, only to label or echo. > > > > > > > > > > > > He is understanding enormous amounts of what we are telling him - on > > two > > > occasions he has even understood WAIT!!! This is a child who would > > tantrum > > > because he could not understand transitions or time. He now > > consistently > > > understands: shoes, byebye, cracker, nappie, milk, car, daddy, > jacket, > > > train, and each day it is more and more. Recently he stopped > > mid-tantrum > > > because he understood that I would read a book to him AFTER I wiped > > his > > > hands!! > > > > > > > > > > > > In late May I went to the high street to buy a toy for his 2nd > > birthday and > > > ended up in the coffee shop toilet sobbing my eyes out because there > > were no > > > toys that I could buy that would play with. (this is 10 days > > before > > > dx.) He would open/shut doors and drawers, turn on washing > > > machine/dryer/--VCR/TV/Computer-/-dishwasher, switch light sockets on > and > > off, > > > run in circles, whine to be held constantly, stare out the window, > or > > beg us > > > to read books for hours at a time. Now he is pulling his train > behind > > him, > > > doing puzzles, yesterday he hugged his dolly and said, > > *aaahhhh*!!!--!!!, he > > > looks at books on his own, and he has made marks on paper with a > > crayon > > > rather than moving the crayons from one pile to another. > > > > > > > > > > > > We could not redirect him at all without a tantrum, this has pretty > > much > > > stopped unless he is tired. On 3rd of June when I started a diary he > > > tantrumed over 8 times - he is averaging 1 or 2 small ones a day > now. > > Today > > > at lunch his dad and I talked about the changes and we were so > amazed. > > Only > > > a month ago when he was taken to the park he would spend about 5 to > 10 > > > minutes on the playground then want to go off on his stimming along > > the > > > pavement. He would stim incessantly. Today he played at the park > > with his > > > dad, up and down the slide, swinging, on the teeter totter, walking > > without > > > constantly *jigging*. Yesterday he chased a young boy around on a > > bike > > > while they both laughed. On Friday we were at someone's house (hi!) > > and he > > > played outside in the garden in a constructive way - riding the > > bulldozer, > > > putting his train in the bucket, raising and lowering the bucket and > > > shifting the gears! These are pretty incredible gains - just a month > > ago he > > > could not co-ordinate his feet to push himself forward on a toddler > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately his sleep is not any better. He has been up the past 7 > > nights, > > > crying, wanting to have milk, screaming and sweating. I'm hoping > that > > > Magnesium will help his sleep but I don't feel that I need to start > > anything > > > else for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > > > > His compliance has increased dramatically, we believe this is > because > > his > > > comprehension has increased so much. He still is very rigid about > > certain > > > things and is stimming some but can be redirected in most cases. His > > PICA > > > has also increased as has his repertoire of foods that he will eat > > (and > > > swallow! lol). He has even taken several drinks of water without > > making > > > himself vomit!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to carry on so much. I really needed to remind myself that > > we've come > > > a substantial way in a short time. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed > with > > the > > > financial implications of starting a VB program and also feeling > > really low > > > that he won't eat enough food to sustain his weight without vast > > quantities > > > of milk. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for reading, hope someone takes some encouragement from this. > I > > know > > > I always find reading the gains very encouraging. Thanks so much for > > all of > > > your help, the people here have been a lifesaver and, most > > importantly, have > > > made a real difference in the quality of our son's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Darla > > > London > > > DH Boban > > > DS 2 years and 1 month > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Sara, that is very promising. How old is your son now? Excuse my brain on standstill this morning, what does VB stand for? Natasa > > > > > > Hi Darla, > > > > > > I haven�t read all �s update yet because I was > > distracted by you saying > > > you are now only speaking English to him. I just wanted to say that > > > ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE advised us to stop speaking Lithuanian to Tom > but > > we > > > kept on speaking it (my husband is Lithuanian and only speaks to him > > in > > > Lithuanian � I speak to him in English). And I honestly believe > > we made the > > > right choice. At one point we mearly gave up but my friend who lives > > in > > > Paris visited us with her two children, one of whom had severe > > language > > > delay. This little girl had recently started getting speech therapy > in > > > French and as her French improved so did her English. Tom�s not > > yet verbal > > > enough or bilingual enough to show you a fantastic story but I do > not > > > believe that Lithuanian has held him back. In fact I think it�s > > been good > > > brain/ vocal exercise for him. How important is your other language > to > > you? > > > if you want to talk to me at all about this I would love to talk to > > you. my > > > number�s 01752 265085. incidentally, anyone else out there who > is > > bringing > > > their ASD child up bilingually, I would love you to phone too. > > > > > > Sara xxx > > > > > > > > > > > > [Autism-Biomedical---Europe] Update on (looong!) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's only been almost 6 weeks now since we first realised that our > son > > had > > > ASD. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, frightened and down so I thought > > I > > > might write about the interventions that we've made and the > incredible > > > progress that has made in such a short time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started keeping a diary on him 5 weeks ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are the changes that we've made: > > > > > > 1 dramatic reduction in our vocabulary to noun/verb only and stopped > > > speaking bi-lingually to him - we are only speaking English (6 weeks > > now) > > > > > > 2 AFP Peptizyde - very erratically will take this, just trying to > get > > 1/2 > > > capsule down him a day but not always succeeding!! (5 weeks now) > > > > > > 3 Bio-Kult probiotic - worked up to 1 capsule (4 weeks now) > > > > > > 4 Transitioned to 1/2 Kallo rice drink, 1/2 regular infant formula - > > > > > drinks 8 to 9 bottles of infant formula a day so this reduces him to > > half > > > the caesin he was previously ingesting. (3 weeks) also trying to get > > him to > > > eat GF crackers, etc. but not totally eliminated gluten yet. > > > > > > 5 Reduced Gaviscon Infant from 2 sachets per bottle to 1 sachet (3 > > weeks) > > > (this is reflux medication) > > > > > > 6 Physiotherapy - two sessions and increased vestibular and other > > sensory > > > stimulation (3 weeks) > > > > > > 7 Zinc Drops (6 days) > > > > > > 8 Reduced Losec PPI (reflux med) to half previous dose (5 days) > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I can't believe the changes. The single most notable and > > > consistent change was with the start of the probiotic. He > immediately > > > brightened up with it and when I increased from 1/2 to 1 he had more > > energy > > > and less frustration. He is a very low energy boy with lots of > > whining and > > > wanting to be held, etc. His stools have consistently darkened and > > bulked up > > > (from bright yellow diahreah) and are now averaging two a day rather > > than 5 > > > or 6 a day. The vinegar smell is gone from his stools (although > today > > he > > > had a bad diahhreah vinegary one for the first time in a few weeks). > > > > > > > > > > > > Six weeks ago, (10 days after his 2nd birthday) his dad and I sat in > > the > > > SLT's office trying to think of ANY words that he could understand > to > > > demonstrate his receptive communication skills. The only one that we > > could > > > think that he half understood was *bye bye* otherwise he had NO > > receptive > > > communication. He also had almost no expressive communicative skills > > (other > > > than biting, hitting, hair pulling, tantruming!!--). In the last 6 > > weeks he > > > has progressed to taking our hands to objects, to demonstrating that > > he > > > wants his coat off, his shoes off, he wants me to put him up down, > > that he > > > wants me to button his top button, and then on to echoing what we > are > > > saying. He has said: up (uh) down (dah) cracker (kah kuh) Let's go > > (skooo!) > > > who's here? (sss heeah?) squirrel (skaa) and a few others that I > > didn't > > > write down. One day he spontaneously said Uh uh uh, dah dah dah when > > he > > > went up and down some steps. One night when I put him in his cot he > > yelled > > > *dah dah dah!* indicating that he wanted down! He is not, however, > > using > > > this language to request, only to label or echo. > > > > > > > > > > > > He is understanding enormous amounts of what we are telling him - on > > two > > > occasions he has even understood WAIT!!! This is a child who would > > tantrum > > > because he could not understand transitions or time. He now > > consistently > > > understands: shoes, byebye, cracker, nappie, milk, car, daddy, > jacket, > > > train, and each day it is more and more. Recently he stopped > > mid-tantrum > > > because he understood that I would read a book to him AFTER I wiped > > his > > > hands!! > > > > > > > > > > > > In late May I went to the high street to buy a toy for his 2nd > > birthday and > > > ended up in the coffee shop toilet sobbing my eyes out because there > > were no > > > toys that I could buy that would play with. (this is 10 days > > before > > > dx.) He would open/shut doors and drawers, turn on washing > > > machine/dryer/--VCR/TV/Computer-/-dishwasher, switch light sockets on > and > > off, > > > run in circles, whine to be held constantly, stare out the window, > or > > beg us > > > to read books for hours at a time. Now he is pulling his train > behind > > him, > > > doing puzzles, yesterday he hugged his dolly and said, > > *aaahhhh*!!!--!!!, he > > > looks at books on his own, and he has made marks on paper with a > > crayon > > > rather than moving the crayons from one pile to another. > > > > > > > > > > > > We could not redirect him at all without a tantrum, this has pretty > > much > > > stopped unless he is tired. On 3rd of June when I started a diary he > > > tantrumed over 8 times - he is averaging 1 or 2 small ones a day > now. > > Today > > > at lunch his dad and I talked about the changes and we were so > amazed. > > Only > > > a month ago when he was taken to the park he would spend about 5 to > 10 > > > minutes on the playground then want to go off on his stimming along > > the > > > pavement. He would stim incessantly. Today he played at the park > > with his > > > dad, up and down the slide, swinging, on the teeter totter, walking > > without > > > constantly *jigging*. Yesterday he chased a young boy around on a > > bike > > > while they both laughed. On Friday we were at someone's house (hi!) > > and he > > > played outside in the garden in a constructive way - riding the > > bulldozer, > > > putting his train in the bucket, raising and lowering the bucket and > > > shifting the gears! These are pretty incredible gains - just a month > > ago he > > > could not co-ordinate his feet to push himself forward on a toddler > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately his sleep is not any better. He has been up the past 7 > > nights, > > > crying, wanting to have milk, screaming and sweating. I'm hoping > that > > > Magnesium will help his sleep but I don't feel that I need to start > > anything > > > else for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > > > > His compliance has increased dramatically, we believe this is > because > > his > > > comprehension has increased so much. He still is very rigid about > > certain > > > things and is stimming some but can be redirected in most cases. His > > PICA > > > has also increased as has his repertoire of foods that he will eat > > (and > > > swallow! lol). He has even taken several drinks of water without > > making > > > himself vomit!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to carry on so much. I really needed to remind myself that > > we've come > > > a substantial way in a short time. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed > with > > the > > > financial implications of starting a VB program and also feeling > > really low > > > that he won't eat enough food to sustain his weight without vast > > quantities > > > of milk. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for reading, hope someone takes some encouragement from this. > I > > know > > > I always find reading the gains very encouraging. Thanks so much for > > all of > > > your help, the people here have been a lifesaver and, most > > importantly, have > > > made a real difference in the quality of our son's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Darla > > > London > > > DH Boban > > > DS 2 years and 1 month > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 In a message dated 10/07/2006 17:24:36 GMT Daylight Time, neno@... writes: As a child is nearing recovery would hisor her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtakingthe strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be neededanyway? >>Wow , I really really hope so!! Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 In a message dated 10/07/2006 17:24:36 GMT Daylight Time, neno@... writes: As a child is nearing recovery would hisor her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtakingthe strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be neededanyway? >>Wow , I really really hope so!! Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hi Darla, When you say one critical aspect of the behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment, what does that mean? Sara Re: Billingual issues Hi Natasa and Sara, A very interesting conversation! Thanks so much Sara for raising the topic. No, it was not an easy decision, like Natasa, we agonised over the decision to cut out Serbian (or Serbo-Croat) from our son's life. Between my husband and I we have 4 nationalities and we are raising our son in a country that is not native to either of us. I am from the USA and also have citizenship in the Cherokee Nation, my dh has Serbian and British citizenship. My dh speaks English to native fluency (he has lived in the UK for 20 years) and I speak English with a very weird Texan/London/Eastern European accent. In fact, I would say that my English is probably *worse* than my dh's! My dh spoke exclusively in Serbian to and I spoke concurrently in English/Serbian. We consulted with three ABA/VB therapists who all said that their preference would be monolingual until was up to fluency and acquisition with his peers. We realise that there is absolutely no empirical evidence to back this up, this is purely anecdotal. My dh even corresponded with Noam Chomsky (the world's most famous linguist, LOL) regarding the acquisition of language for an autist in a bilingual home and also regarding the use of a behaviouralist approach (ala Skinner's VB). You may know that Chomsky challenged or deconstructed Skinner's theoretical approach to language and essentially revolutionised theoretical linguistics with his *generative grammar* approach. The implication of his work being that language is naturally acquired or innate to humans and not a purely behavioural acquisition (apologies to any of you who have theoretical training, please correct me if I am wrong here- my dh did most of the reading on this.) Since my dh and I are not pure behaviouralists by any stretch of the imagination, we are somewhat reluctant to buy entirely into the theoretical and philosophical approach that VB espouses. But with the mind of an Autist we are speaking of a whole other world all together and at this point we *think* that language acquisition for the autistic atypical neurological development might justify a behaviouralist approach. One critical aspect of the behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment so I guess that was one of the driving factors behind our choice to speak one language. I have to admit though that both of your experiences shed some new light on this topic for us and we may revisit this decision since both of you feel that your bilingual homes have not hindered your child in any way. At the time we made the decision we did not understand the extent of 's autism or delays. We now understand that he shows no signs of cognitive delay (although this does not of course mean that he will develop language in any semblance to that of a neuro-typical child!!) and he is classified as *high-functioning*. Given this further information, we may choose to speak again to him bilingually. I posted on the ABA-UK site and received three replies of families who had dropped second and third languages and one whose son has Asperger's and was absolutely thrilled with the introduction of the second language (which also included the use of the Cyrillic alphabet!) I would be interested to hear any further comments and anyone else's experience. This has been a difficult decision and as Natasa commented if we are going to maintain a second language it is best to keep going with it at this point rather than wait. Sorry to be so long-winded!!! Darla In a message dated 09/07/2006 21:30:42 GMT Standard Time, neno@... writes: I absolutely agree with Sara. If there is a language acquisitionproblem it is going to be the same regardless of the number oflanguages used around the child. I really do not believe now (and wedid agonise over this for a while) that two or more languages make itharder to absorb than just one. If a child is ready/able to startacquiring language/s, he or she will just do that. Regardless of thenumber of languages they are surrounded with. As Sara said, if your language is important to you, you should stick toit now and not leave it for later. Another important matter to consideris whether your and your husband english is to the to the nativespeaker's level? If not, it is really not advisable to use it with yourchild (from a linguistics point of view), as it is NOT going to soundthe same to the 'other' (ie native) english is exposed to. So tohim the english he hears at home from you and the english he hearsoutside might sound like two languages anyway. Btw CONGRATULATIONS on the progress is making!!!! Natasa p.s. Sara, same here, Luka not being billingual enough or verbal enough(and not old enough either) to share a good sucess story, but hope tohave an update on it soon... -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Darla, you and your dh obviously looked at this issue from all sides! I would be very interested to hear what Chomski had to say, did he have any suggestions or past experiences with ASD-type language aquisition (not just billingual but in general)? As you say, it might be that someone on the spectrum experiences language in a completely different way.... The other thing to consider could be the biomed/recovery issues - if you think you child can recover or is on his way than would that change the language aquisition patterns? As a child is nearing recovery would his or her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtaking the strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be needed anyway? Natasa > > > Hi Natasa and Sara, > A very interesting conversation! Thanks so much Sara for raising the topic. > No, it was not an easy decision, like Natasa, we agonised over the decision > to cut out Serbian (or Serbo-Croat) from our son's life. Between my husband > and I we have 4 nationalities and we are raising our son in a country that > is not native to either of us. I am from the USA and also have citizenship in > the Cherokee Nation, my dh has Serbian and British citizenship. My dh > speaks English to native fluency (he has lived in the UK for 20 years) and I speak > English with a very weird Texan/London/Eastern European accent. In fact, I > would say that my English is probably *worse* than my dh's! My dh spoke > exclusively in Serbian to and I spoke concurrently in English/Serbian. > > We consulted with three ABA/VB therapists who all said that their preference > would be monolingual until was up to fluency and acquisition with his > peers. We realise that there is absolutely no empirical evidence to back this > up, this is purely anecdotal. My dh even corresponded with Noam Chomsky > (the world's most famous linguist, LOL) regarding the acquisition of language > for an autist in a bilingual home and also regarding the use of a > behaviouralist approach (ala Skinner's VB). You may know that Chomsky challenged or > deconstructed Skinner's theoretical approach to language and essentially > revolutionised theoretical linguistics with his *generative grammar* approach. The > implication of his work being that language is naturally acquired or innate > to humans and not a purely behavioural acquisition (apologies to any of you > who have theoretical training, please correct me if I am wrong here- my dh did > most of the reading on this.) > > Since my dh and I are not pure behaviouralists by any stretch of the > imagination, we are somewhat reluctant to buy entirely into the theoretical and > philosophical approach that VB espouses. But with the mind of an Autist we are > speaking of a whole other world all together and at this point we *think* that > language acquisition for the autistic atypical neurological development > might justify a behaviouralist approach. One critical aspect of the > behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment so I guess that was one of the > driving factors behind our choice to speak one language. > > I have to admit though that both of your experiences shed some new light on > this topic for us and we may revisit this decision since both of you feel that > your bilingual homes have not hindered your child in any way. At the time > we made the decision we did not understand the extent of 's autism or > delays. We now understand that he shows no signs of cognitive delay (although > this does not of course mean that he will develop language in any semblance to > that of a neuro-typical child!!) and he is classified as *high-functioning*. > Given this further information, we may choose to speak again to him > bilingually. > > I posted on the ABA-UK site and received three replies of families who had > dropped second and third languages and one whose son has Asperger's and was > absolutely thrilled with the introduction of the second language (which also > included the use of the Cyrillic alphabet!) > > I would be interested to hear any further comments and anyone else's > experience. This has been a difficult decision and as Natasa commented if we are > going to maintain a second language it is best to keep going with it at this > point rather than wait. > > Sorry to be so long-winded!!! > Darla > > > In a message dated 09/07/2006 21:30:42 GMT Standard Time, > neno@... writes: > > > > I absolutely agree with Sara. If there is a language acquisitionproblem > it is going to be the same regardless of the number oflanguages used > around the child. I really do not believe now (and wedid agonise over > this for a while) that two or more languages make itharder to absorb > than just one. If a child is ready/able to startacquiring language/s, he > or she will just do that. Regardless of thenumber of languages they are > surrounded with. > > As Sara said, if your language is important to you, you should stick > toit now and not leave it for later. Another important matter to > consideris whether your and your husband english is to the to the > nativespeaker'nativespeaker'<WBR>s level? If not, it is really not advis > yourchild (from a linguistics point of view), as it is NOT going to > soundthe same to the 'other' (ie native) english is exposed to. So > tohim the english he hears at home from you and the english he > hearsoutside might sound like two languages anyway. > > Btw CONGRATULATIONS on the progress is making!!!! > > Natasa > > p.s. Sara, same here, Luka not being billingual enough or verbal > enough(and not old enough either) to share a good sucess story, but hope > tohave an update on it soon... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Darla, you and your dh obviously looked at this issue from all sides! I would be very interested to hear what Chomski had to say, did he have any suggestions or past experiences with ASD-type language aquisition (not just billingual but in general)? As you say, it might be that someone on the spectrum experiences language in a completely different way.... The other thing to consider could be the biomed/recovery issues - if you think you child can recover or is on his way than would that change the language aquisition patterns? As a child is nearing recovery would his or her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtaking the strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be needed anyway? Natasa > > > Hi Natasa and Sara, > A very interesting conversation! Thanks so much Sara for raising the topic. > No, it was not an easy decision, like Natasa, we agonised over the decision > to cut out Serbian (or Serbo-Croat) from our son's life. Between my husband > and I we have 4 nationalities and we are raising our son in a country that > is not native to either of us. I am from the USA and also have citizenship in > the Cherokee Nation, my dh has Serbian and British citizenship. My dh > speaks English to native fluency (he has lived in the UK for 20 years) and I speak > English with a very weird Texan/London/Eastern European accent. In fact, I > would say that my English is probably *worse* than my dh's! My dh spoke > exclusively in Serbian to and I spoke concurrently in English/Serbian. > > We consulted with three ABA/VB therapists who all said that their preference > would be monolingual until was up to fluency and acquisition with his > peers. We realise that there is absolutely no empirical evidence to back this > up, this is purely anecdotal. My dh even corresponded with Noam Chomsky > (the world's most famous linguist, LOL) regarding the acquisition of language > for an autist in a bilingual home and also regarding the use of a > behaviouralist approach (ala Skinner's VB). You may know that Chomsky challenged or > deconstructed Skinner's theoretical approach to language and essentially > revolutionised theoretical linguistics with his *generative grammar* approach. The > implication of his work being that language is naturally acquired or innate > to humans and not a purely behavioural acquisition (apologies to any of you > who have theoretical training, please correct me if I am wrong here- my dh did > most of the reading on this.) > > Since my dh and I are not pure behaviouralists by any stretch of the > imagination, we are somewhat reluctant to buy entirely into the theoretical and > philosophical approach that VB espouses. But with the mind of an Autist we are > speaking of a whole other world all together and at this point we *think* that > language acquisition for the autistic atypical neurological development > might justify a behaviouralist approach. One critical aspect of the > behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment so I guess that was one of the > driving factors behind our choice to speak one language. > > I have to admit though that both of your experiences shed some new light on > this topic for us and we may revisit this decision since both of you feel that > your bilingual homes have not hindered your child in any way. At the time > we made the decision we did not understand the extent of 's autism or > delays. We now understand that he shows no signs of cognitive delay (although > this does not of course mean that he will develop language in any semblance to > that of a neuro-typical child!!) and he is classified as *high-functioning*. > Given this further information, we may choose to speak again to him > bilingually. > > I posted on the ABA-UK site and received three replies of families who had > dropped second and third languages and one whose son has Asperger's and was > absolutely thrilled with the introduction of the second language (which also > included the use of the Cyrillic alphabet!) > > I would be interested to hear any further comments and anyone else's > experience. This has been a difficult decision and as Natasa commented if we are > going to maintain a second language it is best to keep going with it at this > point rather than wait. > > Sorry to be so long-winded!!! > Darla > > > In a message dated 09/07/2006 21:30:42 GMT Standard Time, > neno@... writes: > > > > I absolutely agree with Sara. If there is a language acquisitionproblem > it is going to be the same regardless of the number oflanguages used > around the child. I really do not believe now (and wedid agonise over > this for a while) that two or more languages make itharder to absorb > than just one. If a child is ready/able to startacquiring language/s, he > or she will just do that. Regardless of thenumber of languages they are > surrounded with. > > As Sara said, if your language is important to you, you should stick > toit now and not leave it for later. Another important matter to > consideris whether your and your husband english is to the to the > nativespeaker'nativespeaker'<WBR>s level? If not, it is really not advis > yourchild (from a linguistics point of view), as it is NOT going to > soundthe same to the 'other' (ie native) english is exposed to. So > tohim the english he hears at home from you and the english he > hearsoutside might sound like two languages anyway. > > Btw CONGRATULATIONS on the progress is making!!!! > > Natasa > > p.s. Sara, same here, Luka not being billingual enough or verbal > enough(and not old enough either) to share a good sucess story, but hope > tohave an update on it soon... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hi Darla, Just had a lovely chat with your husband. I had that argument (below) with myself too before we made our decision. But I think that no matter how hard you all try to use the same label, for example, all your therapists pick up a mug and say ‘mug’, eventually someone on the television will call it a ‘cup’ and I don’t see that that’s a million miles from another person calling it ‘puodukas’ (Lithuanian word). For ‘bye bye’ he will hear ‘goodbye’ ‘see ya’ ‘see you later’ and less common ones like ‘cheers’. As you are American perhaps he will hear even more variations and I think this will happen no matter how much you try to control it. I would include a different pronunciation of the same word to this list. So, as far as is concerned, ‘potty’ with an English accent and ‘potty’ with an American accent are two different labels for the same object. To add another variant to the list isn’t such a big deal in my humble opinion. I am a language teacher so I am familiar with the fact that there is a difference between what you will consciously teach to have in his expressive language and you will limit this of course in the early days and what he will be exposed to around him. As his language grows he will be more and more aware of what’s around him. In VB we were told to limit the variation in mands that we wish Tom to produce and make sure that they are all identical so that if he wants ‘juice’ all the therapists must say and sign ‘juice’ when prompting and not have one person calling it ‘drink’ another ‘cup’ and another ‘pear juice’ and yet another saying ‘more’ for example but, for receptive skills he MUST know that juice can be called by those other labels. And I believe it is a tiny step to add a Serbian word or two to that list. Let me know what you think. Incidentally, (I just said this on your answering machine) VB inadvertently really lends itself to bilingualism because the child learns a word with a sign and that sign can then be used with a similar word with a different meaning so we use the same sign for bed and sleep and sleeping and sleepy if I then use the same sign for ‘miegoti’, you instantly have an idea what that word means. Sara xxx Ps. By the way, I do think it will slow him down but I don’t think it would be for long and I think it would be worth it. Re: Billingual issues Sorry, Sara, I almost wrote back to re-phrase that because obviously if one person always speaks one language and another always speaks another language, that is consistent, isn't it?!! What I actually meant can perhaps be better phrased as *congruency of environment*. Please forgive me here, I have only a very cursory knowledge of all this and I'm very tired, lol. By congruency, I mean that if is being prompted to say *bye bye* by his therapists/tutors and by me and then prompted to say a different word (in a different language) in the same situation by his father, there is an incongruency there. In my rudimentary knowledge of behaviouralism this would be considered to be an impediment because of the incongruency. Does that make sense? My understanding is that it is important that the environment that has outside of his structured therapy time is congruent with the approach used during the therapy time. Please, disagree with me! I'm open to discussing this. Darla In a message dated 10/07/2006 15:16:38 GMT Standard Time, Moroza-@... writes: Hi Darla, When you say one critical aspect of the behaviouralist approach is consistency of environment, what does that mean? Sara -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 VB = verbal behaviour, a branch of ABA. it focuses more on speech. [Autism-Biomedical---Europe] Update on (looong!) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's only been almost 6 weeks now since we first realised that our > son > > had > > > ASD. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, frightened and down so I thought > > I > > > might write about the interventions that we've made and the > incredible > > > progress that has made in such a short time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started keeping a diary on him 5 weeks ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are the changes that we've made: > > > > > > 1 dramatic reduction in our vocabulary to noun/verb only and stopped > > > speaking bi-lingually to him - we are only speaking English (6 weeks > > now) > > > > > > 2 AFP Peptizyde - very erratically will take this, just trying to > get > > 1/2 > > > capsule down him a day but not always succeeding!! (5 weeks now) > > > > > > 3 Bio-Kult probiotic - worked up to 1 capsule (4 weeks now) > > > > > > 4 Transitioned to 1/2 Kallo rice drink, 1/2 regular infant formula - > > > > > drinks 8 to 9 bottles of infant formula a day so this reduces him to > > half > > > the caesin he was previously ingesting. (3 weeks) also trying to get > > him to > > > eat GF crackers, etc. but not totally eliminated gluten yet. > > > > > > 5 Reduced Gaviscon Infant from 2 sachets per bottle to 1 sachet (3 > > weeks) > > > (this is reflux medication) > > > > > > 6 Physiotherapy - two sessions and increased vestibular and other > > sensory > > > stimulation (3 weeks) > > > > > > 7 Zinc Drops (6 days) > > > > > > 8 Reduced Losec PPI (reflux med) to half previous dose (5 days) > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I can't believe the changes. The single most notable and > > > consistent change was with the start of the probiotic. He > immediately > > > brightened up with it and when I increased from 1/2 to 1 he had more > > energy > > > and less frustration. He is a very low energy boy with lots of > > whining and > > > wanting to be held, etc. His stools have consistently darkened and > > bulked up > > > (from bright yellow diahreah) and are now averaging two a day rather > > than 5 > > > or 6 a day. The vinegar smell is gone from his stools (although > today > > he > > > had a bad diahhreah vinegary one for the first time in a few weeks). > > > > > > > > > > > > Six weeks ago, (10 days after his 2nd birthday) his dad and I sat in > > the > > > SLT's office trying to think of ANY words that he could understand > to > > > demonstrate his receptive communication skills. The only one that we > > could > > > think that he half understood was *bye bye* otherwise he had NO > > receptive > > > communication. He also had almost no expressive communicative skills > > (other > > > than biting, hitting, hair pulling, tantruming!!--). In the last 6 > > weeks he > > > has progressed to taking our hands to objects, to demonstrating that > > he > > > wants his coat off, his shoes off, he wants me to put him up down, > > that he > > > wants me to button his top button, and then on to echoing what we > are > > > saying. He has said: up (uh) down (dah) cracker (kah kuh) Let's go > > (skooo!) > > > who's here? (sss heeah?) squirrel (skaa) and a few others that I > > didn't > > > write down. One day he spontaneously said Uh uh uh, dah dah dah when > > he > > > went up and down some steps. One night when I put him in his cot he > > yelled > > > *dah dah dah!* indicating that he wanted down! He is not, however, > > using > > > this language to request, only to label or echo. > > > > > > > > > > > > He is understanding enormous amounts of what we are telling him - on > > two > > > occasions he has even understood WAIT!!! This is a child who would > > tantrum > > > because he could not understand transitions or time. He now > > consistently > > > understands: shoes, byebye, cracker, nappie, milk, car, daddy, > jacket, > > > train, and each day it is more and more. Recently he stopped > > mid-tantrum > > > because he understood that I would read a book to him AFTER I wiped > > his > > > hands!! > > > > > > > > > > > > In late May I went to the high street to buy a toy for his 2nd > > birthday and > > > ended up in the coffee shop toilet sobbing my eyes out because there > > were no > > > toys that I could buy that would play with. (this is 10 days > > before > > > dx.) He would open/shut doors and drawers, turn on washing > > > machine/dryer/--VCR/TV/Computer-/-dishwasher, switch light sockets on > and > > off, > > > run in circles, whine to be held constantly, stare out the window, > or > > beg us > > > to read books for hours at a time. Now he is pulling his train > behind > > him, > > > doing puzzles, yesterday he hugged his dolly and said, > > *aaahhhh*!!!--!!!, he > > > looks at books on his own, and he has made marks on paper with a > > crayon > > > rather than moving the crayons from one pile to another. > > > > > > > > > > > > We could not redirect him at all without a tantrum, this has pretty > > much > > > stopped unless he is tired. On 3rd of June when I started a diary he > > > tantrumed over 8 times - he is averaging 1 or 2 small ones a day > now. > > Today > > > at lunch his dad and I talked about the changes and we were so > amazed. > > Only > > > a month ago when he was taken to the park he would spend about 5 to > 10 > > > minutes on the playground then want to go off on his stimming along > > the > > > pavement. He would stim incessantly. Today he played at the park > > with his > > > dad, up and down the slide, swinging, on the teeter totter, walking > > without > > > constantly *jigging*. Yesterday he chased a young boy around on a > > bike > > > while they both laughed. On Friday we were at someone's house (hi!) > > and he > > > played outside in the garden in a constructive way - riding the > > bulldozer, > > > putting his train in the bucket, raising and lowering the bucket and > > > shifting the gears! These are pretty incredible gains - just a month > > ago he > > > could not co-ordinate his feet to push himself forward on a toddler > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately his sleep is not any better. He has been up the past 7 > > nights, > > > crying, wanting to have milk, screaming and sweating. I'm hoping > that > > > Magnesium will help his sleep but I don't feel that I need to start > > anything > > > else for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > > > > His compliance has increased dramatically, we believe this is > because > > his > > > comprehension has increased so much. He still is very rigid about > > certain > > > things and is stimming some but can be redirected in most cases. His > > PICA > > > has also increased as has his repertoire of foods that he will eat > > (and > > > swallow! lol). He has even taken several drinks of water without > > making > > > himself vomit!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to carry on so much. I really needed to remind myself that > > we've come > > > a substantial way in a short time. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed > with > > the > > > financial implications of starting a VB program and also feeling > > really low > > > that he won't eat enough food to sustain his weight without vast > > quantities > > > of milk. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for reading, hope someone takes some encouragement from this. > I > > know > > > I always find reading the gains very encouraging. Thanks so much for > > all of > > > your help, the people here have been a lifesaver and, most > > importantly, have > > > made a real difference in the quality of our son's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Darla > > > London > > > DH Boban > > > DS 2 years and 1 month > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 VB = verbal behaviour, a branch of ABA. it focuses more on speech. [Autism-Biomedical---Europe] Update on (looong!) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's only been almost 6 weeks now since we first realised that our > son > > had > > > ASD. I'm feeling a bit discouraged, frightened and down so I thought > > I > > > might write about the interventions that we've made and the > incredible > > > progress that has made in such a short time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started keeping a diary on him 5 weeks ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are the changes that we've made: > > > > > > 1 dramatic reduction in our vocabulary to noun/verb only and stopped > > > speaking bi-lingually to him - we are only speaking English (6 weeks > > now) > > > > > > 2 AFP Peptizyde - very erratically will take this, just trying to > get > > 1/2 > > > capsule down him a day but not always succeeding!! (5 weeks now) > > > > > > 3 Bio-Kult probiotic - worked up to 1 capsule (4 weeks now) > > > > > > 4 Transitioned to 1/2 Kallo rice drink, 1/2 regular infant formula - > > > > > drinks 8 to 9 bottles of infant formula a day so this reduces him to > > half > > > the caesin he was previously ingesting. (3 weeks) also trying to get > > him to > > > eat GF crackers, etc. but not totally eliminated gluten yet. > > > > > > 5 Reduced Gaviscon Infant from 2 sachets per bottle to 1 sachet (3 > > weeks) > > > (this is reflux medication) > > > > > > 6 Physiotherapy - two sessions and increased vestibular and other > > sensory > > > stimulation (3 weeks) > > > > > > 7 Zinc Drops (6 days) > > > > > > 8 Reduced Losec PPI (reflux med) to half previous dose (5 days) > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly, I can't believe the changes. The single most notable and > > > consistent change was with the start of the probiotic. He > immediately > > > brightened up with it and when I increased from 1/2 to 1 he had more > > energy > > > and less frustration. He is a very low energy boy with lots of > > whining and > > > wanting to be held, etc. His stools have consistently darkened and > > bulked up > > > (from bright yellow diahreah) and are now averaging two a day rather > > than 5 > > > or 6 a day. The vinegar smell is gone from his stools (although > today > > he > > > had a bad diahhreah vinegary one for the first time in a few weeks). > > > > > > > > > > > > Six weeks ago, (10 days after his 2nd birthday) his dad and I sat in > > the > > > SLT's office trying to think of ANY words that he could understand > to > > > demonstrate his receptive communication skills. The only one that we > > could > > > think that he half understood was *bye bye* otherwise he had NO > > receptive > > > communication. He also had almost no expressive communicative skills > > (other > > > than biting, hitting, hair pulling, tantruming!!--). In the last 6 > > weeks he > > > has progressed to taking our hands to objects, to demonstrating that > > he > > > wants his coat off, his shoes off, he wants me to put him up down, > > that he > > > wants me to button his top button, and then on to echoing what we > are > > > saying. He has said: up (uh) down (dah) cracker (kah kuh) Let's go > > (skooo!) > > > who's here? (sss heeah?) squirrel (skaa) and a few others that I > > didn't > > > write down. One day he spontaneously said Uh uh uh, dah dah dah when > > he > > > went up and down some steps. One night when I put him in his cot he > > yelled > > > *dah dah dah!* indicating that he wanted down! He is not, however, > > using > > > this language to request, only to label or echo. > > > > > > > > > > > > He is understanding enormous amounts of what we are telling him - on > > two > > > occasions he has even understood WAIT!!! This is a child who would > > tantrum > > > because he could not understand transitions or time. He now > > consistently > > > understands: shoes, byebye, cracker, nappie, milk, car, daddy, > jacket, > > > train, and each day it is more and more. Recently he stopped > > mid-tantrum > > > because he understood that I would read a book to him AFTER I wiped > > his > > > hands!! > > > > > > > > > > > > In late May I went to the high street to buy a toy for his 2nd > > birthday and > > > ended up in the coffee shop toilet sobbing my eyes out because there > > were no > > > toys that I could buy that would play with. (this is 10 days > > before > > > dx.) He would open/shut doors and drawers, turn on washing > > > machine/dryer/--VCR/TV/Computer-/-dishwasher, switch light sockets on > and > > off, > > > run in circles, whine to be held constantly, stare out the window, > or > > beg us > > > to read books for hours at a time. Now he is pulling his train > behind > > him, > > > doing puzzles, yesterday he hugged his dolly and said, > > *aaahhhh*!!!--!!!, he > > > looks at books on his own, and he has made marks on paper with a > > crayon > > > rather than moving the crayons from one pile to another. > > > > > > > > > > > > We could not redirect him at all without a tantrum, this has pretty > > much > > > stopped unless he is tired. On 3rd of June when I started a diary he > > > tantrumed over 8 times - he is averaging 1 or 2 small ones a day > now. > > Today > > > at lunch his dad and I talked about the changes and we were so > amazed. > > Only > > > a month ago when he was taken to the park he would spend about 5 to > 10 > > > minutes on the playground then want to go off on his stimming along > > the > > > pavement. He would stim incessantly. Today he played at the park > > with his > > > dad, up and down the slide, swinging, on the teeter totter, walking > > without > > > constantly *jigging*. Yesterday he chased a young boy around on a > > bike > > > while they both laughed. On Friday we were at someone's house (hi!) > > and he > > > played outside in the garden in a constructive way - riding the > > bulldozer, > > > putting his train in the bucket, raising and lowering the bucket and > > > shifting the gears! These are pretty incredible gains - just a month > > ago he > > > could not co-ordinate his feet to push himself forward on a toddler > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately his sleep is not any better. He has been up the past 7 > > nights, > > > crying, wanting to have milk, screaming and sweating. I'm hoping > that > > > Magnesium will help his sleep but I don't feel that I need to start > > anything > > > else for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > > > > His compliance has increased dramatically, we believe this is > because > > his > > > comprehension has increased so much. He still is very rigid about > > certain > > > things and is stimming some but can be redirected in most cases. His > > PICA > > > has also increased as has his repertoire of foods that he will eat > > (and > > > swallow! lol). He has even taken several drinks of water without > > making > > > himself vomit!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to carry on so much. I really needed to remind myself that > > we've come > > > a substantial way in a short time. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed > with > > the > > > financial implications of starting a VB program and also feeling > > really low > > > that he won't eat enough food to sustain his weight without vast > > quantities > > > of milk. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for reading, hope someone takes some encouragement from this. > I > > know > > > I always find reading the gains very encouraging. Thanks so much for > > all of > > > your help, the people here have been a lifesaver and, most > > importantly, have > > > made a real difference in the quality of our son's life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Darla > > > London > > > DH Boban > > > DS 2 years and 1 month > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: > 07/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Natasa, Oh if only Chomsky had the answers to all our questions. He said that he did not know enough to comment on the language acquistion of atypical neurologically developing children.....<sigh> I don't know that anyone knows really. He only commented to my husband about the effects that VB would have on the critical thinking faculties of a child (a separate question that my dh posed) - Chomsky said that it was hard to tell, who knows? I would *hope* that a child would reach a hypothetical threshhold and learn how to learn language rather than being *taught* language but I think the issue is complex and depends on the child. I know so little about it all, I feel rather silly trying to discuss it. At this point I would certainly hope that it would be possible! I guess one of the aims of a behavioral based program is to teach the child how to learn, in effect reawakening or establishing the neurological patterns that were previously deficient and as you say, for some kids, maybe this can be achieved through Bio-Med. I've certainly read stories of kids recovered solely through BM interventions. But I also think that there are other impediments for the ASD kid - such as motivation! The *theory of mind* is one aspect that seems quite relevant to our son - he simply seems to think that we know what he knows and communication seems rather superflous to his life. I find it difficult to understand the overlap of the *deficit of aquisition* and the social deficit. Strangely our son is a very sociable little boy, he likes people...he just has absolutely no inclination to speak to them! I'm just rambling... Interesting discussion. Regards, Darla Darla, you and your dh obviously looked at this issue from all sides! Iwould be very interested to hear what Chomski had to say, did he haveany suggestions or past experiences with ASD-type language aquisition(not just billingual but in general)? As you say, it might be thatsomeone on the spectrum experiences language in a completely differentway....The other thing to consider could be the biomed/recovery issues - if youthink you child can recover or is on his way than would that change thelanguage aquisition patterns? As a child is nearing recovery would hisor her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtakingthe strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be neededanyway?Natasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Natasa, Oh if only Chomsky had the answers to all our questions. He said that he did not know enough to comment on the language acquistion of atypical neurologically developing children.....<sigh> I don't know that anyone knows really. He only commented to my husband about the effects that VB would have on the critical thinking faculties of a child (a separate question that my dh posed) - Chomsky said that it was hard to tell, who knows? I would *hope* that a child would reach a hypothetical threshhold and learn how to learn language rather than being *taught* language but I think the issue is complex and depends on the child. I know so little about it all, I feel rather silly trying to discuss it. At this point I would certainly hope that it would be possible! I guess one of the aims of a behavioral based program is to teach the child how to learn, in effect reawakening or establishing the neurological patterns that were previously deficient and as you say, for some kids, maybe this can be achieved through Bio-Med. I've certainly read stories of kids recovered solely through BM interventions. But I also think that there are other impediments for the ASD kid - such as motivation! The *theory of mind* is one aspect that seems quite relevant to our son - he simply seems to think that we know what he knows and communication seems rather superflous to his life. I find it difficult to understand the overlap of the *deficit of aquisition* and the social deficit. Strangely our son is a very sociable little boy, he likes people...he just has absolutely no inclination to speak to them! I'm just rambling... Interesting discussion. Regards, Darla Darla, you and your dh obviously looked at this issue from all sides! Iwould be very interested to hear what Chomski had to say, did he haveany suggestions or past experiences with ASD-type language aquisition(not just billingual but in general)? As you say, it might be thatsomeone on the spectrum experiences language in a completely differentway....The other thing to consider could be the biomed/recovery issues - if youthink you child can recover or is on his way than would that change thelanguage aquisition patterns? As a child is nearing recovery would hisor her 'innate language' then reawaken and come to surface, overtakingthe strictly behavioural-type aquisition, which then would not be neededanyway?Natasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Sara, What a compelling arguement you present, I can't say that I disagree with any of your thoughts. Thank you so much for discussing this. I'm going to give it some further thought. I guess while I was slaving away typing out an email my husband did the easy thing and called you!!! Lol. Sometimes I forget that there actually is a person at the other end of this glowing screen.... We haven't had a chance to talk about it much yet but I think he's quite excited that he may begin speaking to our son in Serbian. One thing that we did discuss last night was that perhaps our decision was made in fear as much as anything. BTW, who did you phone? My number is 020 8789 5919....there was no message from you on our voice mail!! Thanks, Darla In a message dated 10/07/2006 20:21:45 GMT Standard Time, Moroza-@... writes: Hi Darla, Just had a lovely chat with your husband. I had that argument (below) with myself too before we made our decision. But I think that no matter how hard you all try to use the same label, for example, all your therapists pick up a mug and say ‘mug’, eventually someone on the television will call it a ‘cup’ and I don’t see that that’s a million miles from another person calling it ‘puodukas’ (Lithuanian word). For ‘bye bye’ he will hear ‘goodbye’ ‘see ya’ ‘see you later’ and less common ones like ‘cheers’. As you are American perhaps he will hear even more variations and I think this will happen no matter how much you try to control it. I would include a different pronunciation of the same word to this list. So, as far as is concerned, ‘potty’ with an English accent and ‘potty’ with an American accent are two different labels for the same object. To add another variant to the list isn’t such a big deal in my humble opinion. I am a language teacher so I am familiar with the fact that there is a difference between what you will consciously teach to have in his expressive language and you will limit this of course in the early days and what he will be exposed to around him. As his language grows he will be more and more aware of what’s around him. In VB we were told to limit the variation in mands that we wish Tom to produce and make sure that they are all identical so that if he wants ‘juice’ all the therapists must say and sign ‘juice’ when prompting and not have one person calling it ‘drink’ another ‘cup’ and another ‘pear juice’ and yet another saying ‘more’ for example but, for receptive skills he MUST know that juice can be called by those other labels. And I believe it is a tiny step to add a Serbian word or two to that list. Let me know what you think. Incidentally, (I just said this on your answering machine) VB inadvertently really lends itself to bilingualism because the child learns a word with a sign and that sign can then be used with a similar word with a different meaning so we use the same sign for bed and sleep and sleeping and sleepy if I then use the same sign for ‘miegoti’, you instantly have an idea what that word means. Sara xxx Ps. By the way, I do think it will slow him down but I don’t think it would be for long and I think it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Sara, What a compelling arguement you present, I can't say that I disagree with any of your thoughts. Thank you so much for discussing this. I'm going to give it some further thought. I guess while I was slaving away typing out an email my husband did the easy thing and called you!!! Lol. Sometimes I forget that there actually is a person at the other end of this glowing screen.... We haven't had a chance to talk about it much yet but I think he's quite excited that he may begin speaking to our son in Serbian. One thing that we did discuss last night was that perhaps our decision was made in fear as much as anything. BTW, who did you phone? My number is 020 8789 5919....there was no message from you on our voice mail!! Thanks, Darla In a message dated 10/07/2006 20:21:45 GMT Standard Time, Moroza-@... writes: Hi Darla, Just had a lovely chat with your husband. I had that argument (below) with myself too before we made our decision. But I think that no matter how hard you all try to use the same label, for example, all your therapists pick up a mug and say ‘mug’, eventually someone on the television will call it a ‘cup’ and I don’t see that that’s a million miles from another person calling it ‘puodukas’ (Lithuanian word). For ‘bye bye’ he will hear ‘goodbye’ ‘see ya’ ‘see you later’ and less common ones like ‘cheers’. As you are American perhaps he will hear even more variations and I think this will happen no matter how much you try to control it. I would include a different pronunciation of the same word to this list. So, as far as is concerned, ‘potty’ with an English accent and ‘potty’ with an American accent are two different labels for the same object. To add another variant to the list isn’t such a big deal in my humble opinion. I am a language teacher so I am familiar with the fact that there is a difference between what you will consciously teach to have in his expressive language and you will limit this of course in the early days and what he will be exposed to around him. As his language grows he will be more and more aware of what’s around him. In VB we were told to limit the variation in mands that we wish Tom to produce and make sure that they are all identical so that if he wants ‘juice’ all the therapists must say and sign ‘juice’ when prompting and not have one person calling it ‘drink’ another ‘cup’ and another ‘pear juice’ and yet another saying ‘more’ for example but, for receptive skills he MUST know that juice can be called by those other labels. And I believe it is a tiny step to add a Serbian word or two to that list. Let me know what you think. Incidentally, (I just said this on your answering machine) VB inadvertently really lends itself to bilingualism because the child learns a word with a sign and that sign can then be used with a similar word with a different meaning so we use the same sign for bed and sleep and sleeping and sleepy if I then use the same sign for ‘miegoti’, you instantly have an idea what that word means. Sara xxx Ps. By the way, I do think it will slow him down but I don’t think it would be for long and I think it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 In a message dated 11/07/2006 15:54:00 GMT Daylight Time, rexel45@... writes: We haven't had a chance to talk about it much yet but I think he's quite excited that he may begin speaking to our son in Serbian. One thing that we did discuss last night was that perhaps our decision was made in fear as much as anything. Hi Darla Thats so nice and in my very humble opinion you should go for it, if you both really want it... As sara says its no more confusing than different accents, people, different names for items. I kinda feel that it would be fine and if I had felt like this 6 years ago when was diagnosed, we would have continued too with Haralds as the 2nd language and English still the dominant one. Its your choice honey, do waht you feel is best. Lotsa Love Caroline xxx PS I too have enjoyed a very interesting debate, thanks girls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 In a message dated 11/07/2006 15:54:00 GMT Daylight Time, rexel45@... writes: We haven't had a chance to talk about it much yet but I think he's quite excited that he may begin speaking to our son in Serbian. One thing that we did discuss last night was that perhaps our decision was made in fear as much as anything. Hi Darla Thats so nice and in my very humble opinion you should go for it, if you both really want it... As sara says its no more confusing than different accents, people, different names for items. I kinda feel that it would be fine and if I had felt like this 6 years ago when was diagnosed, we would have continued too with Haralds as the 2nd language and English still the dominant one. Its your choice honey, do waht you feel is best. Lotsa Love Caroline xxx PS I too have enjoyed a very interesting debate, thanks girls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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