Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 > > It's become quite clear to me that verbal descriptions of olfactory > experiences defy reason. Obviously, as Salaam would likely point out, > this problem has a great deal to do with a lack of olfactory > education--folks just don't know the " right " words to describe scent. > We end up using descriptions and parallels of things we're familiar > with. > > But it strikes me that I have particularly strange takes on essences. > Usually, when an image or phrase is called up in my mind, it's > something I'm quite certain of, and quite confident that the words > I'm finding are what I mean to say. It strikes me my nose might just > be kooky. Here are some examples: > > ambrette--wet concrete > > ambergris--a complex barn smell, manure, rotting wood, etc. > > civet--urine > > immortelle--maple candy without the sweetness > > tuberose--spicy flowers > > costus--putrid flesh, like the smell of a homeless person > > frangipani--jasmine with sharp edges > > labdanum--aged aromatic wood, incense leftovers > > sandalwood--very generally, the smell of Hindu culture (when I smell > it I instantly think of Hindu friends and places) > > neroli--orange candy without the sweetness > > choya nakh--an electrical fire > > boronia--fresh lychee fruit > > Again, I look back at these and think, " Um, yes, exactly right. " For > example, I mean maple CANDY, not maple syrup, without the sweetness. > Am I nuts? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 > > It's become quite clear to me that verbal descriptions of olfactory > experiences defy reason. Obviously, as Salaam would likely point out, > this problem has a great deal to do with a lack of olfactory > education--folks just don't know the " right " words to describe scent. > We end up using descriptions and parallels of things we're familiar > with. > > But it strikes me that I have particularly strange takes on essences. > Usually, when an image or phrase is called up in my mind, it's > something I'm quite certain of, and quite confident that the words > I'm finding are what I mean to say. It strikes me my nose might just > be kooky. Here are some examples: > > ambrette--wet concrete > ambergris--a complex barn smell, manure, rotting wood, etc. > civet--urine > immortelle--maple candy without the sweetness > tuberose--spicy flowers > costus--putrid flesh, like the smell of a homeless person > frangipani--jasmine with sharp edges > labdanum--aged aromatic wood, incense leftovers > sandalwood--very generally, the smell of Hindu culture (when I smell it I instantly think of Hindu friends and places) > neroli--orange candy without the sweetness > choya nakh--an electrical fire > boronia--fresh lychee fruit > > Again, I look back at these and think, " Um, yes, exactly right. " For > example, I mean maple CANDY, not maple syrup, without the sweetness. > Am I nuts? > Hi Adam, I don't think you're nuts at all. I understand your succinct description of Choya Nakh because I am familiar with what an electrical fire (or its aftermath, anyway) smells like. The real challenge is in describing a scent to someone who has not had the same experience as you, in which case the parallels need to be further broken down. To me, Choya Nakh is evocative of charcoal, burnt rubber and plastic, which can be further translated into more specific descriptions such as smoky, acrid, resinous. I am s-l-o-w-l-y learning to decompose the impressions/images I get from an essence to a level of specificity such that I can later read the description and recall the essence from my `scent memory' and vice versa. At the rate I'm going, this will keep me occupied well into my golden years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Adam Gottschalk wrote: > It's become quite clear to me that verbal descriptions of olfactory > experiences defy reason. Obviously, as Salaam would likely point out, > this problem has a great deal to do with a lack of olfactory > education--folks just don't know the " right " words to describe scent. > We end up using descriptions and parallels of things we're familiar > with. > Hi Adam: There is actually a phrase for this inability to connect words with scent, but I just woke up and can't remember it! Somehow we're not hardwired in the brain to be able to do this descriptive bit. > But it strikes me that I have particularly strange takes on essences. > Usually, when an image or phrase is called up in my mind, it's > something I'm quite certain of, and quite confident that the words > I'm finding are what I mean to say. It strikes me my nose might just > be kooky. Here are some examples: > > ambrette--wet concrete > > ambergris--a complex barn smell, manure, rotting wood, etc. snipped for brevity. Natural aromatics are like accords unto themselves. They are not single chemicals - a synthetic rose would be a single chemical with a straightforward rose scent - but they are complex chemicals, sometimes hundreds of chemicals. A natural rose aromatic has nuances of wood, greenery, etc., beyond the rose scent. For that reason, we cannot follow Carles method of blending with vapor pressure in mind. The different chems in naturals all have different vapor pressures. Synthetic perfume creators often complain they cannot handle the complexity of naturals, and yet that is our charge - to systematically evaluate and learn how to manage them. Following that line of thought, your nose may be tuned to certain chems as they volatilize. Ambrette may well mostly present itself as wet concrete to you. You may be partially anosmic to the other chems in ambrette seed that others pick up, like my take that is is creamy skin, and definitely musk. I'm sure if you follow Mandy's Drydown sheet (IIRC, you're taking her Level One) you should be able to pick out many differences in the ambrette scent during all the stages of drydown. Perhaps the concrete is your initial observation, but what about 30 minutes later, two hours later? I always get paper about 30 minutes into a jasmine grandi drydown. Doesn't mean all the jasmine drydown is paper - then it deepens suddenly and gets sweeter and darker - at least to me. You mentioned costus smelling like a rotting corpse, IIRC, and to me it is goat, to others wet dog, as I have read. We all have genetics and cultural references that guide our perception of scent. -- Sincerely, Anya Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com - rare and exotic aromatics and artisan perfumes, perfumery classes and consultation Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 > > It's become quite clear to me that verbal descriptions of olfactory > experiences defy reason. Obviously, as Salaam would likely point out, > this problem has a great deal to do with a lack of olfactory > education--folks just don't know the " right " words to describe scent. > We end up using descriptions and parallels of things we're familiar > with. > Greeting all, Speaking of strange olfactory experiences, I have a condition that is a form phantosmia . That means I sometimes smell something that is not there. An olfactory hallucination.It is not a frequent event but when it happens it is VERY disturbing, It is having a sensory experience that has no mental/memory connection to reality. So when the phantom scent occurs the brain rushes to identify it and comes up with no identity or source . It can actually be frightening. The aromas I encounter are not the typical rotting scents but some are sweet, some like smoke, some just plain indescribable . My sense of smell otherwise is overly sensitive, but completely normal. I am bringing this up because I thought you might find this concept interesting in regard to the psychology of scent. When the mind cannot define a smell , even after it has been experienced many times, it causes a kind panic. Even when I know " oh this is a phantom scent " It does not help the mental frustration of trying to categorize it , or correlate it to an actual source. One phantom scent has actually begun to conjure an image of woman I do not know, who does not exist. I suppose my mind in self defense invented an image to go with the smell. Another became related to an imaginary incense, a Tolu caramel colored smell that only exists in my head. My sense of smell is so precious to me, you can imagine the fear that goes with this! There are many reasons this can occur but niether I nor my doctors have been able to pinpoint the cause. I recieved a liver transplant this year and it ameliorated most the phantosmia. Anyway, just wanted to let you, who are so deeply involved with the olfactory world, be aware of one the truly strange manifestations of the senses. Katlyn My bouts with this condition are less and less every year .I am a liver transplant recipient and this seems to have helped a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 > You mentioned costus smelling like a rotting corpse, IIRC, and to me it > is goat, to others wet dog, as I have read. We all have genetics and > cultural references that guide our perception of scent. > > -- i just recently smelled costus for the first time, and all i could say was " wow " . i am so new to trying to catalogue the things i smell, and find language for them, that being so inarticulate can be frustrating. luckily, learning is a process i truly enjoy. re: costus - i really liked it because it was so complicated, and *unpretty*. it seemed to have a fierce personality all of its own that made me want to get to know it better and see how it behaves. cecile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 > One phantom scent has actually begun to conjure an image of woman I do not know, who > does not exist. I suppose my mind in self defense invented an image to go with the smell. > Another became related to an imaginary incense, a Tolu caramel colored smell that only > exists in my head. > Katlyn; This is amazing. It sounds like you have been through a lot and my heart goes out to you. I hope you are recovering well. I wonder if the liver transplant has made a difference because your body is clearing chemicals from your bloodstream more effectively now? Since the liver's function is to detoxify, could it be that an accumulation of even harmless compounds in your blood triggers these phantom scents, and now that these compunds (and any others) are being processed through the liver more effectively, they don't build up to the point where you " smell " them? I don't know how common this is, but when I was given morphine in hospital while recovering from surgery, I could " smell " it as they injected it into my vein. At first I thought that some of it must be reaching the air, but I was reassured that that wasn't possible. It only happened with the morphine, and was instant - I " smelled " it the second it hit my bloodstream. This is what makes me think there might be some connection. I'd be curious to find out how common this experience is....! Cecile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 > I wonder if the liver transplant has made a difference because your > body is clearing chemicals from your bloodstream more effectively now? > Since the liver's function is to detoxify, could it be that an > accumulation of even harmless compounds in your blood triggers these > phantom scents, and now that these compunds (and any others) are being > processed through the liver more effectively, they don't build up to > the point where you " smell " them? > > > > I'd be curious to find out how common this experience is....! > > Cecile > Hi Cecile, I do not think it is uncommon to smell/taste an injection at the back of the throat, I know I've had lot of them this year and have had the same experience. I think the filtering process of the liver has great deal to do my remission from this condition. Phantosmia is a side effect from several drugs I've heard and now that my body is back in better balance, less drugs , less phantoms. The emotional kick back from the phantoms is more strange than I can explain. You can't wait for it to go away...you cannot escape it. You just sit there trying for the hundredth time to name the smell and you can't. I believe it has given me a greater appreciation of fragrance and its power. Thanks for responding, Katlyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 > I wonder if the liver transplant has made a difference because your > body is clearing chemicals from your bloodstream more effectively now? > Since the liver's function is to detoxify, could it be that an > accumulation of even harmless compounds in your blood triggers these > phantom scents, and now that these compunds (and any others) are being > processed through the liver more effectively, they don't build up to > the point where you " smell " them? > > > > I'd be curious to find out how common this experience is....! > > Cecile > Hi Cecile, I do not think it is uncommon to smell/taste an injection at the back of the throat, I know I've had lot of them this year and have had the same experience. I think the filtering process of the liver has great deal to do my remission from this condition. Phantosmia is a side effect from several drugs I've heard and now that my body is back in better balance, less drugs , less phantoms. The emotional kick back from the phantoms is more strange than I can explain. You can't wait for it to go away...you cannot escape it. You just sit there trying for the hundredth time to name the smell and you can't. I believe it has given me a greater appreciation of fragrance and its power. Thanks for responding, Katlyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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