Re: Atkins & Nourishing Traditions???

[Guest guest]

hi. you might want to try Dr. Mercola's new book, The No-Grain Diet. my

husband and i did it for a month and i saw that he began to take some weight

off. this book was just reviewed in the WAP foundation's journal, Wise

Traditions and they gave it a thumbs up. i think it's a good weight loss plan

and seems to me to be like both NT and Atkins. but it has more veggies than

atkins (good IMO) and eliminates grains (which differs from NT) for the period

during which you are losing weight. check it out and see what you think. i

did not need a weight-loss plan but it improved my health in other ways and i

now eat much less grain.

best wishes,

heather

maryjsteng <mary@...> wrote:

Has anyone done a half way decent job of combining some of the ideas

of Atkins and of NT? I am wanting to lose weight but not eat lots of

soy or weird candy.

I have both these books and really love the Nourising T. book--but

think probably i need to do something radical to lose weight--maybe

combine both? Anyone have tips how to do that?

[Guest guest]

>> Has anyone done a half way decent job of combining some of the ideas

of Atkins and of NT? I am wanting to lose weight but not eat lots of

soy or weird candy.

I have both these books and really love the Nourising T. book--but

think probably i need to do something radical to lose weight--maybe

combine both? Anyone have tips how to do that? <<

That is what I do... it's extremely easy, in fact, it's a piece of cake. <G>

Seriously, what conficts do you see? I have been doing Atkins using NT

principles now for more than three months. I feel better than I've felt in my

entire adult life. I just eat lots of raw cream and cheese, cultured foods like

kimchi, sour cream, etc. Lots of pastured meat and eggs... organic veggies. Dr.

Atkins did allow his name to be used to create a line of " convenience products "

for low carb dieters, as a way to generate funds for research on low carb diets,

but his book barely mentions them (I think one paragraph in the whole book) and

they are not even remotely required or necessary. In Dr. Atkins New Diet

Revolution he consistently implores people to eat fresh whole foods and avoid

things like transfats and processed foods.

I do believe that the Atkins products are crap and that to an extent he sold out

(although it was not for his personal financial gain), but you can do the

program without that garbage, just by following what he says in the book.

Since in its earliest phases he recommends a diet that is 60-75 percent fat, and

NT is also quite a high-fat way of eating, all you really have to do is

eliminate all grain products and sweets from the weight loss stages of the

program, and limit them on the maintenance, and you'll be fine. The only things

that are permanently off limits when on Atkins are white sugar, white flour, and

things like high fructose corn syrup, which are not exactly NT. <G>

Can you say more of what your concern is?

I'm seriously thinking we need an " Atkins/NT weight loss list! "

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> . but it has more veggies than atkins <<

Atkins only severely restricts veggies in the very earliest stages, and I eat a

lot more veggies on Atkins than I ate before Atkins. And that's true of most of

the SADers who go on it, too!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Quoting Christie <christiekeith@...>:

> >> . but it has more veggies than atkins <<

>

> Atkins only severely restricts veggies in the very earliest stages, and I

> eat a lot more veggies on Atkins than I ate before Atkins. And that's

> true of most of the SADers who go on it, too!

Standard Atkins Dieters?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

>> Standard Atkins Dieters? <<

LOL, no, " Standard American Diet. "

A lot of anti-Atkins propaganda focuses on the extremely limited amount of

veggies you can eat in the early stages, ignoring two things:

One, even those three cups of veggies are about three cups more than most

Americans eat anyway, and

Two, at every stage of the Atkins program, you add more and more veggies to the

diet. Only in the beginning of the weight loss phases are veggies highly

restricted. It is sugar and grains that are always restricted on Atkins, and a

few of the high-glycemic veggies. Fruits are more restricted, but even so, many

fruits, especially the lower glycemic ones, are allowed on Atkins, more and more

as you move through the phases of the plan.

Obviously folks on this list are not SADers, although I personally was not

eating many veggies prior to going on Atkins, despite my otherwise " healthy "

diet.

Christie

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 21:09:31 -0700

" Christie " <christiekeith@...> wrote:

> Obviously folks on this list are not SADers, although I personally was not

eating many veggies prior to going on Atkins, despite my otherwise " healthy "

diet.

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:33:26 -0700

" Christie " <christiekeith@...> wrote:

.. Dr. Atkins did allow his name to be used to create a line of " convenience

products " for low carb dieters, as a way to generate funds for research on low

carb diets, but his book barely mentions them (I think one paragraph in the

whole book) and they are not even remotely required or necessary. In Dr. Atkins

New Diet Revolution he consistently implores people to eat fresh whole foods and

avoid things like transfats and processed foods.

******Is that why he put his name on that stuff? I was thoroughly disgusted the

first time I saw this stuff on the market. Yech! Bleech! This from a guy who was

on the PPNF board and wrote a positive cite for Nourishing Traditions? Ugh!!!

This from a guy whose was responsible for introducing many people to the concept

of eating whole fullfat foods again (even if they were often substandard). I was

quite surprised to say the least.

>

> I do believe that the Atkins products are crap and that to an extent he sold

out (although it was not for his personal financial gain), but you can do the

program without that garbage, just by following what he says in the book.

*******Yes I thought it was a HUGE sellout. It is interesting what you say about

no personal financial gain. When he died, the good Doc was worth $100,000,000

dollars. Perhaps that allowed him the luxury of what you state above

mo' buttah

mo' better,

[Guest guest]

>> Yes I thought it was a HUGE sellout. It is interesting what you say about no

personal financial gain. When he died, the good Doc was worth $100,000,000

dollars. Perhaps that allowed him the luxury of what you state above <<

Perhaps it did, but it just underscores that he didn't put his name on that line

of processed crap for the money. I agree it is crap and he sold out. I still

think his eating plan has saved my life.

Christie

[Guest guest]

It's pretty simple! They combine well. The idea is high protein/fat in the

diet so just incorporate what NT/WAP says are good fats, good protein

sources, and get some probiotics/enzymes for digestion. Lard, Tallow,

Butter - from pastured/organic sources, coconut oil, palm oil, some olive

oil etc and where you need to start for the foundation.

I'm on a tight budget so I can't get all of the things I'd like but we eat

plenty of grassfed ground beef, pastured chicken, bacon/sausage that is

MSG, nitrite/nitrate free from hormone/antibiotic free pigs, pastured eggs

and soon raw milk. I buy whatever cheeses I can afford at the store,

avoiding any kraft products and trying to find the most " pure " cheeses I

can without any strange ingredients. I goofed and bought my favorite

pickles (claussen) and the whole pickles have high fructose corn syrup in

them now!! Which I didn't notice until I was mostly done with the second

jar. =( All this even though the carb count is low.

I am working on making kefir and kombucha also.

I basically haven't had but a few bites of rice or bread in the last month.

I've had absolutely no potatoes or pastas, and very little " carb " filled

veggies like carrots. I snack on lunch meats (msg, nitrate/trite free), beef

jerky when I can find an acceptable brand... need to make my own,

salads with homemade dressings and lots of cheese! Nothing passes

these lips with hydrogenates oils, canola oil, soy of any kind with the

exception of naturally fermented soy sauce, high fructose corn syrup

(even in tiny doses!!! I've read this alone causes the major insulin

problems), corn syrup... etc.

I even have the occasional treat with a little bit of sugar and on Sundays

a " special " meal with moderate carbs like tortilla chips (home made and

fried in peanut oil) - usually with a huge meaty/cheesy " 7 layer dip " . It's

not really 7 layers but it's close! =)

No processed/pre packaged foods without carefully checking the labels.

Take it easy on the fruit too, and especially fruit juice.

I'm morbidly obese, as the term goes... about 250lbs over weight when I

started this and I've lost 20 inches in the last month. It would probably be

more if I exercised more and got more fat in. I am probably only at about

40 - 50 % of my calories from fat and I need to be around 70%.

I am also now taking Primal Defense and Omega Zyme which seems to

be going well. When I can I will add the animal derived enzymes.

Blessed Be!

Dawn

On 9 Aug 2003 at 23:50, maryjsteng wrote:

> Has anyone done a half way decent job of combining some of the ideas

> of Atkins and of NT? I am wanting to lose weight but not eat lots of

> soy or weird candy. I have both these books and really love the

> Nourising T. book--but think probably i need to do something radical

> to lose weight--maybe combine both? Anyone have tips how to do that?

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:06:17 -0700

" Christie " <christiekeith@...> wrote:

> >> Yes I thought it was a HUGE sellout. It is interesting what you say about

no personal financial gain. When he died, the good Doc was worth $100,000,000

dollars. Perhaps that allowed him the luxury of what you state above <<

>

> Perhaps it did, but it just underscores that he didn't put his name on that

line of processed crap for the money. I agree it is crap and he sold out. I

still think his eating plan has saved my life.

>

> Christie

>

>

Despite all the shortcomings of the way that people actually practice the diet,

I think the late Dr. Atkins helped many many people in a very positive way. I

know that I have defended him on more than one occasion on several lists.

The thing I liked best about him though was not his " medical " diet, but his

continuing growth as a scholar. It is clear that he continued to interact with

the literature throughout his career, readily adopting anything that would

further the cause.

A good example is the effective carbohydrate concept, which, while missing from

his book the first time around, he readily adopted. He also suggested that

people use the Hellering method of low carbing, which was indeed different from

his own approach,*if it helped them achieve their goal.*

You got to love a guy who doesn't suffer from what we use to call in school -

the NDHD's - i.e the not discovered here disease - which causes otherwise

intelligent folk to blast something because they were not in on the discovery.

Believe me, this is more common in academia than most people realize.

He didn't seem to do any strange things either. Not like the Eades of Protein

Power fame, who wrote a letter to a gov't agency trying to explain why their

diet was not at all like the Atkins approach. I thought it was so silly. But

they were right in one sense, because their diet was not as good Dr. Atkins. Now

if they had titled it Fat Power they might have been on to something.

So while I think Dr. Atkins diet is a therapeutic approach for people with

particular issues, and the way that it is normally practiced will leave a lot of

people coming up short, and doesn't address some of the social/cultural aspects

of low carbing, we should give credit where credit is due. It seems he did help

an awful lot of people and is finally getting the recognition, posthumously,

that he deserves.

ps. actually, even in the social/cultural aspects he was learning and adapting.

Borrowing on the reward meal concept from the Heller's (where they teach there

are two phases to insulin rising, and that the rise is negligible *provided* you

eat all carbs within an hour), he does say that if by chance some stray carbs

somehow someway accidentally make it to your mouth, you have one hour to eat

them before getting a huge insulin spike. He had a sense of humor too.

[Guest guest]

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I agree completely, and I felt that sentiment was worth seconding. Too

many people take a boolean approach to life -- someone is either evil or

good, with no shades of gray. Dr. Atkins had a number of shortcomings,

some very serious, but overall, he did an enormous amount of net good.

>So while I think Dr. Atkins diet is a therapeutic approach for people with

>particular issues, and the way that it is normally practiced will leave a

>lot of people coming up short, and doesn't address some of the

>social/cultural aspects of low carbing, we should give credit where credit

>is due. It seems he did help an awful lot of people and is finally getting

>the recognition, posthumously, that he deserves.

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