Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Steph I'm so pleased you had such a useful consultation with Simon Murch and that you liked him too.I was worried that, having said how great he was for us, you might not feel the same! Good luck with clearing the impaction - life has just been so much better ever since we got that sorted out, but go easy and take it slowly - it can take a while to get everything softened up enough for your son to be able to excrete it comfortably, so don't rush it. Good luck with it all, and I hope it makes Tom's life a whole lot better. Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, so I hope you see some big improvements once you get it cleared. Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Steph I'm so pleased you had such a useful consultation with Simon Murch and that you liked him too.I was worried that, having said how great he was for us, you might not feel the same! Good luck with clearing the impaction - life has just been so much better ever since we got that sorted out, but go easy and take it slowly - it can take a while to get everything softened up enough for your son to be able to excrete it comfortably, so don't rush it. Good luck with it all, and I hope it makes Tom's life a whole lot better. Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, so I hope you see some big improvements once you get it cleared. Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 In a message dated 06/06/2006 18:09:45 GMT Standard Time, godfree@... writes: Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, Exactly the same for us ... And I have to say Steph if Mandi ever writes a book, this story has to go in it as one of the funnies. I was laughing lots, sorry writing a lot of rubbish here cos has been wittering rather OCD fashion today, bad tummy as usual... Cant concentrate... Go for it girl, and poor little Tom hope he is soon feeling lots better. Lotsa Love Caroline xxx Another Little Impaction Princess joins the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 In a message dated 06/06/2006 18:09:45 GMT Standard Time, godfree@... writes: Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, Exactly the same for us ... And I have to say Steph if Mandi ever writes a book, this story has to go in it as one of the funnies. I was laughing lots, sorry writing a lot of rubbish here cos has been wittering rather OCD fashion today, bad tummy as usual... Cant concentrate... Go for it girl, and poor little Tom hope he is soon feeling lots better. Lotsa Love Caroline xxx Another Little Impaction Princess joins the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Margaret We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the softeners and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the products we were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The protocol at the time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our son's impaction was the size of a melon) was as follows: Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls twice daily Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 week of daily Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once or twice a week 10-15mls The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really important to soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child Senokot or similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to contract quite violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you gave the Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your child as their body is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big to come out. The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job enough before trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but it's hard to explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker colour than the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea which just rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it starts to break it down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a mixture of old impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light-brown than dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It can still be quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the stomach cramps caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity of doing a big hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well worth it for how much better they will soon feel. Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for several years with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of LP and occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was building up again, mainly because his concentration/focus would go off. The problem is that, for kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, they can get 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the bowel has stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency is for it to keep filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all moving instead. Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm sure most of you know all this already, but I know there are always new people joining, so hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such a long time ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this anymore and is doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the puzzle sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so much happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Margaret We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the softeners and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the products we were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The protocol at the time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our son's impaction was the size of a melon) was as follows: Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls twice daily Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 week of daily Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once or twice a week 10-15mls The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really important to soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child Senokot or similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to contract quite violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you gave the Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your child as their body is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big to come out. The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job enough before trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but it's hard to explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker colour than the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea which just rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it starts to break it down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a mixture of old impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light-brown than dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It can still be quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the stomach cramps caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity of doing a big hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well worth it for how much better they will soon feel. Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for several years with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of LP and occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was building up again, mainly because his concentration/focus would go off. The problem is that, for kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, they can get 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the bowel has stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency is for it to keep filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all moving instead. Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm sure most of you know all this already, but I know there are always new people joining, so hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such a long time ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this anymore and is doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the puzzle sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so much happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 . how long did it take to clear the first impaction, please? I wonder because we clear out H but I never know whether we've done a good enough job (oops, my pun!). Margaret Re: Simon Murch Tom the Gut Impaction King Hi Steph I'm so pleased you had such a useful consultation with Simon Murch and that you liked him too.I was worried that, having said how great he was for us, you might not feel the same! Good luck with clearing the impaction - life has just been so much better ever since we got that sorted out, but go easy and take it slowly - it can take a while to get everything softened up enough for your son to be able to excrete it comfortably, so don't rush it. Good luck with it all, and I hope it makes Tom's life a whole lot better. Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, so I hope you see some big improvements once you get it cleared. Best wishes, __________ NOD32 1.1581 (20060606) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 . how long did it take to clear the first impaction, please? I wonder because we clear out H but I never know whether we've done a good enough job (oops, my pun!). Margaret Re: Simon Murch Tom the Gut Impaction King Hi Steph I'm so pleased you had such a useful consultation with Simon Murch and that you liked him too.I was worried that, having said how great he was for us, you might not feel the same! Good luck with clearing the impaction - life has just been so much better ever since we got that sorted out, but go easy and take it slowly - it can take a while to get everything softened up enough for your son to be able to excrete it comfortably, so don't rush it. Good luck with it all, and I hope it makes Tom's life a whole lot better. Our son's gut/behaviour correlation is 100%. Whenever he starts to get impacted, his behaviour and concentration always take a nose dive, so I hope you see some big improvements once you get it cleared. Best wishes, __________ NOD32 1.1581 (20060606) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 HI Useful for me thank you. We weren't expecting this at all so we hadn't looked into it. He's given Tom Movical because he says it doesn't irritate the bowel in order to move the impaction. We'll see. Tom has been quite spacey again lately - although generally quite jolly. So a total shock to see all that impaction. Movical doesn't seem to have too many nasties in it. What I am not clear about is how you know when it's gone. Given that Tom has been pooing moreorless " normally " since we started probiotics and doesn't suffer with diarrohea or very rarely he's been fooling us very effecively. Is attention the only way of spotting it? We haven't been offered a second x-ray to check it's all gone and we're not seeing the doctor again until September. Plus I am worrried that giving him two sachets of movical a day for ever might take all his supps with it! But I suppose that's preferable to leaving his bowel blocked with toxins that he then reabsorbs. I'm wittering - quite a shock and short of calling in dyno rod I feel quite nervous about moving things along, as it were > > Hi Margaret > We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the softeners > and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the products we > were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The protocol at the > time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our son's impaction > was the size of a melon) was as follows: > > Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls twice daily > > Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 week of daily > Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) > > Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once or twice > a week 10-15mls > > The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really important to > soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child Senokot or > similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to contract quite > violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you gave the > Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your child as their body > is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big to come out. > > The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job enough before > trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but it's hard to > explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker colour than > the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea which just > rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it starts to break it > down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a mixture of old > impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light- brown than > dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It can still be > quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the stomach cramps > caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity of doing a big > hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well worth it for how > much better they will soon feel. > > Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for several years > with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of LP and > occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was building up again, > mainly because his concentration/focus would go off. The problem is that, for > kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, they can get > 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the bowel has > stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency is for it to keep > filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all moving instead. > > Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm sure most of > you know all this already, but I know there are always new people joining, so > hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such a long time > ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this anymore and is > doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the puzzle > sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so much happier. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Sirr wrote: > Hello > > Saw Simon Murch yesterday - seemed like a really good bloke and he's > ordered a raft of tests for Tom. BUT most importantly - he examined > Tom, said panda eyes looked a bit gut problem but other than that he > looked fine, soft tummy, etc etc. Asked really detailed questions > about Tom and said " better do an x-ray just to be sure. " > > In and out of x ray in 10 minutes flat (this hospital is in > Coventry, they're terrific). I took x ray to him whilst Mark drove > back with Tom. Hey presto - major impaction, right the way up the > whole thing, with no break, just as far as it could possibly go with > a really impacted looking bit in the lower bowel. I.e. Tom has > probably been in some pain for some considerable time despite being > very regular. So, the poo (sorry!) is going around the impaction. > > I was really amazed. I seriously didn't have Tom down as an > impaction kid. Now we have a car load of movicol to get things > moving. > > I also made the biggest fool of myself with my lack of biology. > When the x-ray went up on the light box literally all I could see > was poo - as far as the x-ray went. Without thinking I wailed " Oh > my GOD where are his LUNGS? " only for the doctor to kindly point > out that this was a stomach x-ray. I think he felt even more sorry > for Tom after that. > > Sharon I really know how you must have felt waiting so long to have > x-rayed. Such a simple process, and so illuminating. Poor > little man - some of that might have been there for ages, so we're > merrily detoxing him and it's presumably just being reabsorbed > whilst it's in the queue. > > BUT at least it's something we can treat. And more proof of a > medical link. We liked Simon Murch. > Steph x > > Hi Steph, Saw him too back in 1999 with Jack and also liked him alot. J had similar problems and we were given the liquid paraffin route plus some very powerful clean out powder! Am wondering whether we still have issues despite daily BMs like Tom. Are about to go course of vancomycin and nizoral to try and kill off bad gut bugs hiding deep in the mucosa followed by some anti inflamms to try and calm gut down. Will keep you posted when I'm not busy giving meds and supps every couple of hours!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Sirr wrote: > HI > > Useful for me thank you. We weren't expecting this at all so we > hadn't looked into it. He's given Tom Movical because he says it > doesn't irritate the bowel in order to move the impaction. We'll > see. > > Tom has been quite spacey again lately - although generally quite > jolly. So a total shock to see all that impaction. Movical doesn't > seem to have too many nasties in it. What I am not clear about is > how you know when it's gone. Given that Tom has been pooing > moreorless " normally " since we started probiotics and doesn't suffer > with diarrohea or very rarely he's been fooling us very effecively. > Is attention the only way of spotting it? We haven't been offered a > second x-ray to check it's all gone and we're not seeing the doctor > again until September. Plus I am worrried that giving him two > sachets of movical a day for ever might take all his supps with it! > But I suppose that's preferable to leaving his bowel blocked with > toxins that he then reabsorbs. > > I'm wittering - quite a shock and short of calling in dyno rod I > feel quite nervous about moving things along, as it were > > > > > > Hi Margaret > > We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the > softeners > > and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the > products we > > were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The > protocol at the > > time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our > son's impaction > > was the size of a melon) was as follows: > > > > Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls > twice daily > > > > Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 > week of daily > > Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) > > > > Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once > or twice > > a week 10-15mls > > > > The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really > important to > > soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child > Senokot or > > similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to > contract quite > > violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you > gave the > > Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your > child as their body > > is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big > to come out. > > > > The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job > enough before > > trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but > it's hard to > > explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker > colour than > > the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea > which just > > rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it > starts to break it > > down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a > mixture of old > > impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light- > brown than > > dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It > can still be > > quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the > stomach cramps > > caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity > of doing a big > > hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well > worth it for how > > much better they will soon feel. > > > > Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for > several years > > with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of > LP and > > occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was > building up again, > > mainly because his concentration/ focus would go off. The problem > is that, for > > kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, > they can get > > 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the > bowel has > > stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency > is for it to keep > > filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all > moving instead. > > > > Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm > sure most of > > you know all this already, but I know there are always new people > joining, so > > hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such > a long time > > ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this > anymore and is > > doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the > puzzle > > sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so > much happier. > > > > > > > > Hi Steph, I don't know anything about movicol but SM rxed picolax for us for Jack and it was pretty explosive stuff so watch out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hmmm, serotonin and acetylcholine are the neurotransmitters which play an important role in peristalytic action in the gut. More info in Gershon's great book " The Second Brain " . Re: Re: Simon Murch Tom the Gut Impaction King > Sirr wrote: > >> HI >> >> Useful for me thank you. We weren't expecting this at all so we >> hadn't looked into it. He's given Tom Movical because he says it >> doesn't irritate the bowel in order to move the impaction. We'll >> see. >> >> Tom has been quite spacey again lately - although generally quite >> jolly. So a total shock to see all that impaction. Movical doesn't >> seem to have too many nasties in it. What I am not clear about is >> how you know when it's gone. Given that Tom has been pooing >> moreorless " normally " since we started probiotics and doesn't suffer >> with diarrohea or very rarely he's been fooling us very effecively. >> Is attention the only way of spotting it? We haven't been offered a >> second x-ray to check it's all gone and we're not seeing the doctor >> again until September. Plus I am worrried that giving him two >> sachets of movical a day for ever might take all his supps with it! >> But I suppose that's preferable to leaving his bowel blocked with >> toxins that he then reabsorbs. >> >> I'm wittering - quite a shock and short of calling in dyno rod I >> feel quite nervous about moving things along, as it were >> >> >> > >> > Hi Margaret >> > We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the >> softeners >> > and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the >> products we >> > were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The >> protocol at the >> > time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our >> son's impaction >> > was the size of a melon) was as follows: >> > >> > Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls >> twice daily >> > >> > Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 >> week of daily >> > Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) >> > >> > Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once >> or twice >> > a week 10-15mls >> > >> > The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really >> important to >> > soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child >> Senokot or >> > similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to >> contract quite >> > violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you >> gave the >> > Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your >> child as their body >> > is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big >> to come out. >> > >> > The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job >> enough before >> > trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but >> it's hard to >> > explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker >> colour than >> > the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea >> which just >> > rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it >> starts to break it >> > down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a >> mixture of old >> > impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light- >> brown than >> > dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It >> can still be >> > quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the >> stomach cramps >> > caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity >> of doing a big >> > hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well >> worth it for how >> > much better they will soon feel. >> > >> > Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for >> several years >> > with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of >> LP and >> > occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was >> building up again, >> > mainly because his concentration/ focus would go off. The problem >> is that, for >> > kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, >> they can get >> > 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the >> bowel has >> > stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency >> is for it to keep >> > filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all >> moving instead. >> > >> > Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm >> sure most of >> > you know all this already, but I know there are always new people >> joining, so >> > hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such >> a long time >> > ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this >> anymore and is >> > doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the >> puzzle >> > sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so >> much happier. >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > Hi Steph, > I don't know anything about movicol but SM rxed picolax for us for Jack > and it was pretty explosive stuff so watch out!!! > > > > > DISCLAIMER > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical > advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably > qualified practitioner. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hi, having a kid who is also a 'King of Constipation' i have spent alotof time researching ways to help him and thought i needed to give you the inside info on Movicol/Miralax (brand names for the same stuff) so you can make an informed descision on whether to use it or not. This is something that i have been too scared to try because of what i have read about it. Have a look at what Dana in the US thinks of it: http://www.danasview.net/miralax.htm there is also a group, not very active but have a read through the archive: miralax If you have a kid with a leaky gut as i have (Still!!!) movicol should be treated with extreme caution, check you have the right dosage for your child and only use for 2 weeks not long term (as per Dana who's opinion i rate very highly). I would be interested to hear how you get on with it as i am running out of other things to try and might have to use it on my DS as a last resort!!! I thought s suggestion re:Liquid Parafin was a sound protocol and relatively safe. I have not been able to use LP because my ds point-blank refuses to take it :+( hth, Nikki -- In Autism Treatment , " Sirr " <mark.grabiec@...> wrote: > > HI > > Useful for me thank you. We weren't expecting this at all so we > hadn't looked into it. He's given Tom Movical because he says it > doesn't irritate the bowel in order to move the impaction. We'll > see. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hi we took our Tom for an abdominal x-ray recently. Firstly the radiologist gave us the all-clear (Tom had been given tiny shapes to swallow 5 days before and as none of these showed up she said he was fine). Having learnt to be suspicious we hung around asking lots of questions like ‘what’s this bit?’ and ‘why is this area light?’ eventually she said she had seen much worse impactions so he was fine. Meanwhile Tom was having a hysterical screaming fit (fear of hospital staff!) so we left without asking too much more. In other words though, he is impacted but they’re saying he’s fine (I think). We’re asking for copies of the x-rays to send to but I wondered if anyone else was able to comment on this. Sara x Re: Simon Murch Tom the Gut Impaction King HI Useful for me thank you. We weren't expecting this at all so we hadn't looked into it. He's given Tom Movical because he says it doesn't irritate the bowel in order to move the impaction. We'll see. Tom has been quite spacey again lately - although generally quite jolly. So a total shock to see all that impaction. Movical doesn't seem to have too many nasties in it. What I am not clear about is how you know when it's gone. Given that Tom has been pooing moreorless " normally " since we started probiotics and doesn't suffer with diarrohea or very rarely he's been fooling us very effecively. Is attention the only way of spotting it? We haven't been offered a second x-ray to check it's all gone and we're not seeing the doctor again until September. Plus I am worrried that giving him two sachets of movical a day for ever might take all his supps with it! But I suppose that's preferable to leaving his bowel blocked with toxins that he then reabsorbs. I'm wittering - quite a shock and short of calling in dyno rod I feel quite nervous about moving things along, as it were > > Hi Margaret > We first saw Simon Murch nearly 7 years ago, so I'm sure that the softeners > and laxatives used now have evolved a bit, but at the time the products we > were told to use were Liquid Paraffin and Senokot liquid. The protocol at the > time faced with intractable impaction with overflow (and our son's impaction > was the size of a melon) was as follows: > > Phase 1: Softening - 2 weeks of Liquid Paraffin approx 10mls twice daily > > Phase 2: Clearout - Continue paraffin daily approx 10ml plus 1 week of daily > Senokot 10mls (increase to 15mls if no progress) > > Phase 3: Chronic - Daily Liquid Paraffin 5-10mls plus Senokot once or twice > a week 10-15mls > > The reason for going about it gradually is that it is really important to > soften up the hard mass of impacted faeces before giving the child Senokot or > similar laxatives as they cause the muscles of the bowel to contract quite > violently and the sensation of needing to void the bowel. If you gave the > Senokot too soon it can be very upsetting and painful for your child as their body > is trying to get them to pass an impaction which is just too big to come out. > > The way I could tell that the Liquid Paraffin had done its job enough before > trying Senokot was that the impacted faeces (sorry everyone but it's hard to > explain without being rather graphic!) is usually a much darker colour than > the either any recently formed stuff or the overflow diahorrea which just > rushes through the gut. As the LP softens up the impaction it starts to break it > down and the stools passed become increasingly 'marbled' as a mixture of old > impacted stuff and more recent. When they become more mid/light- brown than > dark,you know you are winning and can start to give Senokot. It can still be > quite distressing for the child, as the combination of the stomach cramps > caused by the muscles contracting violently and the unfamiliarity of doing a big > hard poo are a lot for a little person to deal with, but well worth it for how > much better they will soon feel. > > Having cleared the original impaction, we still kept on for several years > with the same protocol, just topping him up with small amounts of LP and > occasional Senokot as needed. I just got to know when it was building up again, > mainly because his concentration/focus would go off. The problem is that, for > kids like mine, who had been suffering from a large impaction, they can get > 'acquired mega-rectum' which basically means that part of the bowel has > stretched abnormally to accomodate the impaction, and the tendency is for it to keep > filling up, so you have to re-educate the bowel to keep it all moving instead. > > Sorry, this seems to have turned into a very long post, and I'm sure most of > you know all this already, but I know there are always new people joining, so > hopefully it will have been useful to someone. It all seems such a long time > ago for us. He is now in fine shape, doesn't need any of this anymore and is > doing great, so I feel we were very lucky to get that bit of the puzzle > sorted out. It made a huge difference to him and he became so much happier. > > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 In a message dated 08/06/2006 12:20:45 GMT Daylight Time, nikkigoian44714@... writes: Hi Mandi,you missed out the secret ingredient in the Picolax, that being:Sodium Picosulfate (aka DYNAMITE!!!)A very strong stimulant laxative, we get it on its own from the docs and it still works without the Mag and C!!! >>>Well I need me glasse snow I am such an old bird - I casn only see the big writing LOL Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 In a message dated 08/06/2006 12:20:45 GMT Daylight Time, nikkigoian44714@... writes: Hi Mandi,you missed out the secret ingredient in the Picolax, that being:Sodium Picosulfate (aka DYNAMITE!!!)A very strong stimulant laxative, we get it on its own from the docs and it still works without the Mag and C!!! >>>Well I need me glasse snow I am such an old bird - I casn only see the big writing LOL Mandi x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hi Mandi, you missed out the secret ingredient in the Picolax, that being: Sodium Picosulfate (aka DYNAMITE!!!) A very strong stimulant laxative, we get it on its own from the docs and it still works without the Mag and C!!! Nikki :+) In Autism Treatment , Mum231ASD@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 07/06/2006 09:34:24 GMT Daylight Time, > catherine.devereux@... writes: > > Hi Steph, > I don't know anything about movicol but SM rxed picolax for us for Jack > and it was pretty explosive stuff so watch out!!! > > > > > >>>OMG, that stuff is dynamite-like. I have no qualms abotu my colonoscopies > but the Picolax - man thats a different matter. Its essentially Vitamin C > and Mag I don't know why they wouldn't use that - it draws fluids into the > stool also. > > I know Dr H Rx'd it for a mum he is treating > > Makes me mad that some drug company gets to put C & Mag a a few other > minerals in a sachet, call it Picolax and then make money out of it and if the docs > know this stuff works why don;t they just tell peeps C & mag??? > > Mandi x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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