Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

[Guest guest]

gail-- i wasnt trying to be argumentative at all -- merely scientific. in

both of your posts you did not address my question at all. my first question

had to to do specifically with the laxative on the SECOND day. that is-- the

one following the olive oil drink. regarding my second post-- both yours and

saul's response do not satisfy my curiosity, and dont; scientifically prove

anuthing. that something FLOATS in the toilet does not prove that iot came

from the liver. and regarding the color- some olive oil is green and some is

yellow-- whcih can easily explain the color of the 'stones' i am still far

from satisfied or convinced that this is in fact a liver cleanse. the stuff

that came out of me was brown or black. exactly the same stuff i have been

passing from my colon for a long while. and in the past is has sometimes

floated. proving nothing other than that it floated. i can come up with two

or three possible explanations:

1) everyone who has done this is wrong about where these 'stones' come from.

and in fact, they have been colon cleansing. again, in my previous post, i

mentioned that of course you will feel better after a coln cleanse, since

your body is cleaner.

2) for some reason, my body didn't want the olive oil to go into my liver,

and therfore just dumped it into my colon, becasue that is where it was

needed.

3) since i am constipated, i might see actual 'liver stones' afteri have

passed all the waste from my colon

i have been at this game too long to ever trust anyone's word on anything

when it comes to health. too many experts have been wrong too often. so i

take advice, follow it, and judge reality for myself. and so far with this

whole thing it has been a colon cleanse. another thought is to put some beet

juice in with the olive oil mix. if the 'stones' are red does that prove my

point? i am very eager to hear from anyone who can either validate or

invalidate my experience.

saul's response was surprising-- saying that he had never heard of brown or

black stones before. thats because it was not a STONE. it was impacted matter

from my COLON in the shape of a 'stone.'

[Guest guest]

all due respect saul-- but you have not answered my question.

i have read hulda clark regarding stones. the stuff i have passed so far are

not stones.

that they float or that they are made of cholesterol or flubber doesnt matter

to me. i am curious as to how one can verify that they come from the liver.

the more i think about his the more i think that other people are just

unfamiliar with their colons, and then when they see a small hard pellet

colored green or yellow (from where i sit now caused by the color of olive

oil-- you have to admit there is a bit too much coincidence here) they

think-- 'gosh this must have come from my liver because it is a a yellow

pellet'

the concept of a colon cleanse has no meaning for me at this point in time

since my colon is is constantly in the process of cleaning itself due to all

the years i spent on my diet and hrbs and various pills and stuff, etc... so

my relity is that i live in a constant colon cleanse. again, im thinking

this validates my question, since most people think in terms of discrete

events like 'colon cleanse' or 'parasite cleanse', and not in terms of

energetic flows and processes.

i want desperately for someone to show me the stupidity of my question and

show me the light so i may indeed experience a LIVER cleanse and enjoy better

health.

interesting that alex my kinesiology guy a long time ago questioned the

validity of the liver cleanse.

[Guest guest]

<< I removed over 2000 green stones myself. I have done the best colon

cleanse there is - that is, a 60 day fast!

who says this is the best colon cleanse there is? maybe your organs just got

too weak at a certain point and you lacked the ability to cleanse. you did

mention at one point that you fried your adrenal glands as a result of this.

<>

i seriously doubt you removed everything from there-- if you did i doubt that

you would be ill now. think about it.

(usually 12-13stone) and removed that crap too! There was nothing that

looked even remotely like these stones. >> did you drink olive oil and

grapefruit while you fasted? colon waste can be hard, slimy, pellets,

mucousy, rubery, tar, anything. depending on what section of the colon you

are detoxifying. and what layer you are at.

i still maintain that people don't understand colon cleansing. when i went on

the ketogenic diet i got down to 155. i was 6' and totally lean and cut with

muscle. i thought- god there is nothing left inside me now. years later i am

still passing old gunk. some of it is as hard as rock. and this is when it is

moistened and in the toilet. so i cant imagine how cemented it is inside the

colon.

2000 stones. ok let's do some arithmetic. how big is a liver. how big is a

stone. let's say an average stone is a pea? i don't know-- i'm guessing. what

is the volume of 2000 peas? sounds bigger than a human liver.

many of them were like hard white calcium deposits which, in my opinion, no

way, were from my colon

i have passed almost every imaginable color of old impacted stuff from my

colon. ranging from very light (almost white) to dark black. i have heard

that the white stuff is a a result of a period in your life when you are

extremely low in acid and bile. who knows if this is true.

<<myself AND Gail could physically FEEL the train of hard and very

noticeable 'pebbles' literally pouring out of the liver area.>>

the ascending colon and flexture(is tis a owrd?) where it turns into the

transverse colon is right next to the liver area. if you indeed can feel

your liver ducts then i would imagine you are so advanced as to not need any

medical assistance at all.

<<Just get on and do it man - you'll feel a hundred times better for it if

you just 'trust' the advice of the kind and giving people on this list!>>

I HAVE DONE IT. have you not read my post? this is why i am posting the

RESULTS of my experience. not hypothesis. i do not doubt for a minute

kindness and generodity of people here. mostly very fine people. what i am

doubting is specifically what i posted my question about. (see beginning of

this post)

i am sincerely hoping that i am just wrong, and that on day 3 i will see

things that i have never seen come out of me. but i don't find this to be

likely as i woke up at 4 am on the first night and passed my first batch of

faux stones. i will be happy beyond belief to eat crow on this post if i do

see a single liver stone. also, i don't doubt that liver and or gall stones

exist. i am doubting this particular cleanse. i am not even doubting

seriously that you or gail perhaps passed liver stones. but i havent yet and

i followed the cleanse to a tee. maybe for me it will take a few more to get

the ball rolling. is there precedent for this? that in some cases the liver

is so clogged that nothing comes out until after a few cleanses?

scientifically,

luck

[Guest guest]

<< I removed over 2000 green stones myself. I have done the best colon

cleanse there is - that is, a 60 day fast!

who says this is the best colon cleanse there is? maybe your organs just got

too weak at a certain point and you lacked the ability to cleanse. you did

mention at one point that you fried your adrenal glands as a result of this.

<>

i seriously doubt you removed everything from there-- if you did i doubt that

you would be ill now. think about it.

(usually 12-13stone) and removed that crap too! There was nothing that

looked even remotely like these stones. >> did you drink olive oil and

grapefruit while you fasted? colon waste can be hard, slimy, pellets,

mucousy, rubery, tar, anything. depending on what section of the colon you

are detoxifying. and what layer you are at.

i still maintain that people don't understand colon cleansing. when i went on

the ketogenic diet i got down to 155. i was 6' and totally lean and cut with

muscle. i thought- god there is nothing left inside me now. years later i am

still passing old gunk. some of it is as hard as rock. and this is when it is

moistened and in the toilet. so i cant imagine how cemented it is inside the

colon.

2000 stones. ok let's do some arithmetic. how big is a liver. how big is a

stone. let's say an average stone is a pea? i don't know-- i'm guessing. what

is the volume of 2000 peas? sounds bigger than a human liver.

many of them were like hard white calcium deposits which, in my opinion, no

way, were from my colon

i have passed almost every imaginable color of old impacted stuff from my

colon. ranging from very light (almost white) to dark black. i have heard

that the white stuff is a a result of a period in your life when you are

extremely low in acid and bile. who knows if this is true.

<<myself AND Gail could physically FEEL the train of hard and very

noticeable 'pebbles' literally pouring out of the liver area.>>

the ascending colon and flexture(is tis a owrd?) where it turns into the

transverse colon is right next to the liver area. if you indeed can feel

your liver ducts then i would imagine you are so advanced as to not need any

medical assistance at all.

<<Just get on and do it man - you'll feel a hundred times better for it if

you just 'trust' the advice of the kind and giving people on this list!>>

I HAVE DONE IT. have you not read my post? this is why i am posting the

RESULTS of my experience. not hypothesis. i do not doubt for a minute

kindness and generodity of people here. mostly very fine people. what i am

doubting is specifically what i posted my question about. (see beginning of

this post)

i am sincerely hoping that i am just wrong, and that on day 3 i will see

things that i have never seen come out of me. but i don't find this to be

likely as i woke up at 4 am on the first night and passed my first batch of

faux stones. i will be happy beyond belief to eat crow on this post if i do

see a single liver stone. also, i don't doubt that liver and or gall stones

exist. i am doubting this particular cleanse. i am not even doubting

seriously that you or gail perhaps passed liver stones. but i havent yet and

i followed the cleanse to a tee. maybe for me it will take a few more to get

the ball rolling. is there precedent for this? that in some cases the liver

is so clogged that nothing comes out until after a few cleanses?

scientifically,

luck

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/15/2001 5:22:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

alltogethernow@... writes:

<< How I came to be convinced that these are & quot;stones & quot; being passed,

is

because the first cleanse produced large, marble , pea, and BB sized

stones. Successive cleanses produced smaller stones, until the fourth in

that series produced only very small stones and & quot;chaf & quot;.

If this was a chemical reaction only, and not really stones, one could

expect a similar reaction each time. >>

i never questioned that this was merely a chemical reaction (even though

someone i know pointed out that this is also the exact recipe for soap)

emulsified fat.

im still unconvinced here that it didn't come from your colon. perhpas you

had a relatively healthy colon. at first you got big stuff out. and then

smaller and smaller. the same logic can be applied to both colon and liver.

i'm still waiting for someone to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that these

are liver or gall bladder stones. there must be some way to actually prove it.

[Guest guest]

michael-- you are beginning to convince me!!!!!!! i am not 100% but the

thing about the liver swelling being reduced strikes a cord. yes i have a

memory like a steel trap. not like a woman though. only when it comes to

health.

a few things: stagnant bile? does it solidify in the liver or in the duct?

how exactly does this impede the cleanse? what are the actual mechanics of

the impediment? i wonder if this is why i have been craving lemon juice--

maybe to break something down in the duct? maybe i am acting bilious because

i got a stone stuck there and nothing is coming out. i wish someone would

have warned me about this and i would have taken precautions. or taken some

of the herbs you mentioned.

gail -- if you are reading this-- did it take you a few cleanses before you

actually got a single stone out? do you also think it is possible to get

something stuck there- and then the duct relaxes after it is over and things

return to normal? (hopefully) anyway-- this is all new territory for me. so i

am trying to learn as much as possible. i will try to make some sense of it

over the next few days. i'm a bit disappointed so far that nothing came out.

[Guest guest]

michael-- you are beginning to convince me!!!!!!! i am not 100% but the

thing about the liver swelling being reduced strikes a cord. yes i have a

memory like a steel trap. not like a woman though. only when it comes to

health.

a few things: stagnant bile? does it solidify in the liver or in the duct?

how exactly does this impede the cleanse? what are the actual mechanics of

the impediment? i wonder if this is why i have been craving lemon juice--

maybe to break something down in the duct? maybe i am acting bilious because

i got a stone stuck there and nothing is coming out. i wish someone would

have warned me about this and i would have taken precautions. or taken some

of the herbs you mentioned.

gail -- if you are reading this-- did it take you a few cleanses before you

actually got a single stone out? do you also think it is possible to get

something stuck there- and then the duct relaxes after it is over and things

return to normal? (hopefully) anyway-- this is all new territory for me. so i

am trying to learn as much as possible. i will try to make some sense of it

over the next few days. i'm a bit disappointed so far that nothing came out.

[Guest guest]

Dear lucky,

The stones from the liver are solidifed cholesterol, encapsulating

a bacteria or a parasite or some undigested food material. They are most

commonly green, or yellowy green. I have never heard of them being black.

You should probably do the liver cleanse again in two - three weeks.

The grapefruit acts as an emulsifier, and the olive oil as a mechanical

flush agent through the open liver channels.

If you do a colon cleanse first and then a liver cleanse after, you will see

that there are marked differences in what is released.

Best of Health!

Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LTOH.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

From: luckower@...

Reply-oxyplus

oxyplus

Subject: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:25:03 EDT

i have followed the liver cleanse to a tee, and here are some observations.

i

have been passing what some people refer to as 'stones' but i am pretty sure

these are not from my liver! i have been colon cleansing long enough to know

at least what the stuff looks like that comes out of my colon. and this

stuff

is definitely from my colon. i'm thinking that the grapefruit acts as a

cleanser (being acidic) and the olive oil as a lubricant which makes the

pieces separate and look like stones. most of them are brown or black. a few

were lighter colored, but i have seen this before in colon cleansing. so i

have to question every single one of you who has posted about this supposed

liver cleanse. and of course after a god colon cleanse you will feel better

and digestion will improve. so someone please PROVE to me that this is

indeed

a LIVER cleanse and not a colon cleanse.

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <luckower@...>Wrote:

>so i

> have to question every single one of you who has posted about this

supposed

> liver cleanse. and of course after a god colon cleanse you will feel

better

> and digestion will improve. so someone please PROVE to me that this is

indeed

> a LIVER cleanse and not a colon cleanse.

Hi Luck,

You tickle me. Are you having a bad day? I'm not laughting at you and

certainly don't mean to offend you. It's just that why would we lie about

benefiting from the liver cleanse. Sorry I can't prove anything, only tell

you my experience. I've heard you can tell a stone because it will float

because of the cholesterol in it. They can be bright green (reflecting bile)

or brown or yellowish in color. My first cleanse I didn't get many, only

15. Then I did a parasite cleanse followed by another cleanse and removed

100's maybe up to a 1,000. I continued doing a cleanse every 2 weeks until

I didn't get any more out. For me the " proof " is in the way I feel. I feel

better because my health is improved by doing the cleanse that and the

parasite cleanse with it. I'm not trying to talk you into doing anything

you don't want to do. I don't think anybody here is. This is just what has

helped me. If you want to give it a try, that's great. It's up to you.

Many have benefited from it tho. You probably will feel icky for a couple

of days then just start to feel better. Some people don't even feel bad

when they do it. Hope this helps you.

Do take care,

Gail

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Luck,

I understand your argument and, to be honest, I greatly admire a man who, like

myself, accepts nothing as truth no matter who tells it and has his own mind to

make his own decisions!

My 2 cents on this are:

I removed over 2000 green stones myself. I have done the best colon cleanse

there is - that is, a 60 day fast! I removed everything out of there and broke

my bodies cells down until I was just 7stone (usually 12-13stone) and removed

that crap too! There was nothing that looked even remotely like these stones.

Of these 2000 stones, many of them were like hard white calcium deposits which,

in my opinion, no way, were from my colon. But, mostly they were the bile green

ones, many as large as walnuts or brazil nuts. Apparently, the structure of

gallstones are quite an accepted medical phenomenon. There are pictures of them

in medical books and they show up in scans. This is medical fact, certainly

that they exist in the gall bladder. What the medical profession may dispute is

that they are in the liver also. Personally, I think it's common sense and

logic as Dr explains in her book. Especially, considering the fact that

people (such as Gail) who have had their gall bladder's removed still remove

stones with the medically accepted gall stones structure. Where else are they

from ?

Also, whilst doing the liver cleanse, myself AND Gail could physically FEEL the

train of hard and very noticeable 'pebbles' literally pouring out of the liver

area. You simply CANNOT dispute this actual physical experience! I guess you

did not get this yourself and, perhaps, the stones you removed were, as you

suggest, not stones at all and were from your colon.

As I said, I understand and admire your stand on this but I think you're wasting

your time - it is not even in dispute, medically! Just get on and do it man -

you'll feel a hundred times better for it if you just 'trust' the advice of the

kind and giving people on this list!

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

gail-- i wasnt trying to be argumentative at all -- merely scientific. in

both of your posts you did not address my question at all. my first question

had to to do specifically with the laxative on the SECOND day. that is-- the

one following the olive oil drink. regarding my second post-- both yours and

saul's response do not satisfy my curiosity, and dont; scientifically prove

anuthing. that something FLOATS in the toilet does not prove that iot came

from the liver. and regarding the color- some olive oil is green and some is

yellow-- whcih can easily explain the color of the 'stones' i am still far

from satisfied or convinced that this is in fact a liver cleanse. the stuff

that came out of me was brown or black. exactly the same stuff i have been

passing from my colon for a long while. and in the past is has sometimes

floated. proving nothing other than that it floated. i can come up with two

or three possible explanations:

1) everyone who has done this is wrong about where these 'stones' come from.

and in fact, they have been colon cleansing. again, in my previous post, i

mentioned that of course you will feel better after a coln cleanse, since

your body is cleaner.

2) for some reason, my body didn't want the olive oil to go into my liver,

and therfore just dumped it into my colon, becasue that is where it was

needed.

3) since i am constipated, i might see actual 'liver stones' afteri have

passed all the waste from my colon

i have been at this game too long to ever trust anyone's word on anything

when it comes to health. too many experts have been wrong too often. so i

take advice, follow it, and judge reality for myself. and so far with this

whole thing it has been a colon cleanse. another thought is to put some beet

juice in with the olive oil mix. if the 'stones' are red does that prove my

point? i am very eager to hear from anyone who can either validate or

invalidate my experience.

saul's response was surprising-- saying that he had never heard of brown or

black stones before. thats because it was not a STONE. it was impacted matter

from my COLON in the shape of a 'stone.'

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

Luck,

I understand your argument and, to be honest, I greatly admire a man who, like

myself, accepts nothing as truth no matter who tells it and has his own mind to

make his own decisions!

My 2 cents on this are:

I removed over 2000 green stones myself. I have done the best colon cleanse

there is - that is, a 60 day fast! I removed everything out of there and broke

my bodies cells down until I was just 7stone (usually 12-13stone) and removed

that crap too! There was nothing that looked even remotely like these stones.

Of these 2000 stones, many of them were like hard white calcium deposits which,

in my opinion, no way, were from my colon. But, mostly they were the bile green

ones, many as large as walnuts or brazil nuts. Apparently, the structure of

gallstones are quite an accepted medical phenomenon. There are pictures of them

in medical books and they show up in scans. This is medical fact, certainly

that they exist in the gall bladder. What the medical profession may dispute is

that they are in the liver also. Personally, I think it's common sense and

logic as Dr explains in her book. Especially, considering the fact that

people (such as Gail) who have had their gall bladder's removed still remove

stones with the medically accepted gall stones structure. Where else are they

from ?

Also, whilst doing the liver cleanse, myself AND Gail could physically FEEL the

train of hard and very noticeable 'pebbles' literally pouring out of the liver

area. You simply CANNOT dispute this actual physical experience! I guess you

did not get this yourself and, perhaps, the stones you removed were, as you

suggest, not stones at all and were from your colon.

As I said, I understand and admire your stand on this but I think you're wasting

your time - it is not even in dispute, medically! Just get on and do it man -

you'll feel a hundred times better for it if you just 'trust' the advice of the

kind and giving people on this list!

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

gail-- i wasnt trying to be argumentative at all -- merely scientific. in

both of your posts you did not address my question at all. my first question

had to to do specifically with the laxative on the SECOND day. that is-- the

one following the olive oil drink. regarding my second post-- both yours and

saul's response do not satisfy my curiosity, and dont; scientifically prove

anuthing. that something FLOATS in the toilet does not prove that iot came

from the liver. and regarding the color- some olive oil is green and some is

yellow-- whcih can easily explain the color of the 'stones' i am still far

from satisfied or convinced that this is in fact a liver cleanse. the stuff

that came out of me was brown or black. exactly the same stuff i have been

passing from my colon for a long while. and in the past is has sometimes

floated. proving nothing other than that it floated. i can come up with two

or three possible explanations:

1) everyone who has done this is wrong about where these 'stones' come from.

and in fact, they have been colon cleansing. again, in my previous post, i

mentioned that of course you will feel better after a coln cleanse, since

your body is cleaner.

2) for some reason, my body didn't want the olive oil to go into my liver,

and therfore just dumped it into my colon, becasue that is where it was

needed.

3) since i am constipated, i might see actual 'liver stones' afteri have

passed all the waste from my colon

i have been at this game too long to ever trust anyone's word on anything

when it comes to health. too many experts have been wrong too often. so i

take advice, follow it, and judge reality for myself. and so far with this

whole thing it has been a colon cleanse. another thought is to put some beet

juice in with the olive oil mix. if the 'stones' are red does that prove my

point? i am very eager to hear from anyone who can either validate or

invalidate my experience.

saul's response was surprising-- saying that he had never heard of brown or

black stones before. thats because it was not a STONE. it was impacted matter

from my COLON in the shape of a 'stone.'

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

<< Gail, if I remember correctly, did not remove anything for her first one

or two flushes until I prompted her to carry on with it and she eventually

had success. >>

I might as well add my 2 cents also.My results were not good until I reached

the third cleanse. That was the first time I saw what Hulda calls pee green

stones. I have done 7cleanses in all.

Christel

[Guest guest]

<< Gail, if I remember correctly, did not remove anything for her first one

or two flushes until I prompted her to carry on with it and she eventually

had success. >>

I might as well add my 2 cents also.My results were not good until I reached

the third cleanse. That was the first time I saw what Hulda calls pee green

stones. I have done 7cleanses in all.

Christel

[Guest guest]

I'll offer my two cents, having done several liver cleanses.

I like the Hulda overnight cleanse.

How I came to be convinced that these are " stones " being passed, is

because the first cleanse produced large, marble , pea, and BB sized

stones. Successive cleanses produced smaller stones, until the fourth in

that series produced only very small stones and " chaf " .

If this was a chemical reaction only, and not really stones, one could

expect a similar reaction each time.

Secondly, my liver was enlarged prior to doing the cleanse; (that was

my motivation)

I had such pressure in my liver that the first reaction reminded me of

the sound when you put coins in a pay pool table and pull the lever.

(Crack, boom, boom)

Three days later, I had twice the energy, and my liver area was

normal.

I told several friends, and several of us began doing the same. Some

of the guys who were considered as normally healthy had larger stones

than I. They were proud enough to take pictures.

All the stones they and I had were green, from dark to light shades.

I like the Hulda clark recipe with a couple little differences

because it is done overnight.

I use 3-4 mg of melotonin in place of ornithine, and I don't eat a

special diet like she suggest.

I just do the basic epsom salt and grapefruit/olive oil.

I find this is all that's needed.

(I was gonna post the formula but I lose track of measurements

sometimes and need to look again; don't want to add to the confusion)

I'll post it later, also I found easily with the basic search engne.

[Guest guest]

I'll offer my two cents, having done several liver cleanses.

I like the Hulda overnight cleanse.

How I came to be convinced that these are " stones " being passed, is

because the first cleanse produced large, marble , pea, and BB sized

stones. Successive cleanses produced smaller stones, until the fourth in

that series produced only very small stones and " chaf " .

If this was a chemical reaction only, and not really stones, one could

expect a similar reaction each time.

Secondly, my liver was enlarged prior to doing the cleanse; (that was

my motivation)

I had such pressure in my liver that the first reaction reminded me of

the sound when you put coins in a pay pool table and pull the lever.

(Crack, boom, boom)

Three days later, I had twice the energy, and my liver area was

normal.

I told several friends, and several of us began doing the same. Some

of the guys who were considered as normally healthy had larger stones

than I. They were proud enough to take pictures.

All the stones they and I had were green, from dark to light shades.

I like the Hulda clark recipe with a couple little differences

because it is done overnight.

I use 3-4 mg of melotonin in place of ornithine, and I don't eat a

special diet like she suggest.

I just do the basic epsom salt and grapefruit/olive oil.

I find this is all that's needed.

(I was gonna post the formula but I lose track of measurements

sometimes and need to look again; don't want to add to the confusion)

I'll post it later, also I found easily with the basic search engne.

[Guest guest]

I had an ND tell me liver-gallbladder flushes were dangerous because if a large

stone tried to come out and got stuck it could be life threatening. This is the

first time I have heard this. I would love to hear some of your opinions on

this. Thanks :-)

Saul Pressman wrote:

> Dear lucky,

>

> The stones from the liver are solidifed cholesterol, encapsulating

> a bacteria or a parasite or some undigested food material. They are most

> commonly green, or yellowy green. I have never heard of them being black.

> You should probably do the liver cleanse again in two - three weeks.

>

> The grapefruit acts as an emulsifier, and the olive oil as a mechanical

> flush agent through the open liver channels.

>

> If you do a colon cleanse first and then a liver cleanse after, you will see

> that there are marked differences in what is released.

>

> Best of Health!

> Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LTOH.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: luckower@...

> Reply-oxyplus

> oxyplus

> Subject: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:25:03 EDT

>

> i have followed the liver cleanse to a tee, and here are some observations.

> i

> have been passing what some people refer to as 'stones' but i am pretty sure

> these are not from my liver! i have been colon cleansing long enough to know

> at least what the stuff looks like that comes out of my colon. and this

> stuff

> is definitely from my colon. i'm thinking that the grapefruit acts as a

> cleanser (being acidic) and the olive oil as a lubricant which makes the

> pieces separate and look like stones. most of them are brown or black. a few

> were lighter colored, but i have seen this before in colon cleansing. so i

> have to question every single one of you who has posted about this supposed

> liver cleanse. and of course after a god colon cleanse you will feel better

> and digestion will improve. so someone please PROVE to me that this is

> indeed

> a LIVER cleanse and not a colon cleanse.

>

> _________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

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>

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>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

I had an ND tell me liver-gallbladder flushes were dangerous because if a large

stone tried to come out and got stuck it could be life threatening. This is the

first time I have heard this. I would love to hear some of your opinions on

this. Thanks :-)

Saul Pressman wrote:

> Dear lucky,

>

> The stones from the liver are solidifed cholesterol, encapsulating

> a bacteria or a parasite or some undigested food material. They are most

> commonly green, or yellowy green. I have never heard of them being black.

> You should probably do the liver cleanse again in two - three weeks.

>

> The grapefruit acts as an emulsifier, and the olive oil as a mechanical

> flush agent through the open liver channels.

>

> If you do a colon cleanse first and then a liver cleanse after, you will see

> that there are marked differences in what is released.

>

> Best of Health!

> Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LTOH.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: luckower@...

> Reply-oxyplus

> oxyplus

> Subject: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:25:03 EDT

>

> i have followed the liver cleanse to a tee, and here are some observations.

> i

> have been passing what some people refer to as 'stones' but i am pretty sure

> these are not from my liver! i have been colon cleansing long enough to know

> at least what the stuff looks like that comes out of my colon. and this

> stuff

> is definitely from my colon. i'm thinking that the grapefruit acts as a

> cleanser (being acidic) and the olive oil as a lubricant which makes the

> pieces separate and look like stones. most of them are brown or black. a few

> were lighter colored, but i have seen this before in colon cleansing. so i

> have to question every single one of you who has posted about this supposed

> liver cleanse. and of course after a god colon cleanse you will feel better

> and digestion will improve. so someone please PROVE to me that this is

> indeed

> a LIVER cleanse and not a colon cleanse.

>

> _________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

: <luckower@...>Writes:

>

> i'm still waiting for someone to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that

these

> are liver or gall bladder stones. there must be some way to actually prove

it.

Hi Luck, I'm not for sure if there is a way to prove beyond a shadow of a

doubt. At least I don't know how. I'm currious to know tho; will you do

more cleanses, if you're not satisfied? Gail

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

>who says this is the best colon cleanse there is?

Thousands of people who have done the same thing!! And it's a whole lot more

than just a colon cleanse.

>maybe your organs just got

>too weak at a certain point and you lacked the ability to cleanse. you did

>mention at one point that you fried your adrenal glands as a result of this.

Aahh - You, dear Luck, have a memory like all of my ex-girlfriends!! The kind

that drags up every little thing you've mentioned from a hundred years ago and

throws it back in your face!!!!! ;-) hehehe You're right, I did theorise

about the possibility that my fast could have further weakened my already

damaged adrenals. But, I don't think that has any bearing whatsoever on lacking

the ability to cleanse. I cleansed alright!!! :-)

>i seriously doubt you removed everything from there-- if you did i doubt that

>you would be ill now. think about it.

I can assure you, my colon was sparkling like a polished copper pipe! My

continuing ill health now is due to totally unrelated gland problems. My fast

actually cured my severe long-standing and totally debillitating Crohns disease

/ IBS!

> did you drink olive oil

To be honest, I think your olive oil colouring the stones theory is clutching

at straws. Bile is the same green as the stones. It's medical fact that gall

stones are coloured green by bile. The olive oil I used was not at all green!

>i was 6' and totally lean and cut with

>muscle.

Same as I, after my fast - I looked like Bruce Lee!!! :-)

>2000 stones. ok let's do some arithmetic. how big is a liver. how big is a

>stone. let's say an average stone is a pea? i don't know-- i'm guessing. what

>is the volume of 2000 peas? sounds bigger than a human liver.

Obviously, they were not all so large! And, as someone just mentioned too, my

liver was extremely swollen and painful to touch - as verified by my Dr. Since

the liver cleanse - no longer a problem!

>the ascending colon and flexture(is tis a owrd?) where it turns into the

>transverse colon is right next to the liver area. if you indeed can feel

>your liver ducts then i would imagine you are so advanced as to not need any

>medical assistance at all.

When the bile ducts are so swollen and sore from this hard pebbles, trust me,

you will feel them. I don't think that's advanced at all ! Whether the actual

sensation is initiated by sensors in the bile duct / liver or the colon, I don't

know, but it's certainly a feeling of a bag of marbles being emptied out of the

liver area and not of some cemented old crap being loosened from the colon!

>I HAVE DONE IT. have you not read my post? this is why i am posting the

>RESULTS of my experience. not hypothesis.

YES, obviously. I was meaning to stop analysing and get on and do it. Not

just one cleanse but ALL the cleanses necessary to clean those stones out of

your liver!!!

>i am sincerely hoping that i am just wrong,

You are!

> i will be happy beyond belief to eat crow on this post

And I will be happy to feed it to you!!

>is there precedent for this? that in some cases the liver

>is so clogged that nothing comes out until after a few cleanses?

Apparently, many people have stagnant bile that needs breaking down and will

not remove stones until they have done this. I used some specific Chinese Herbs

for a month before doing my first cleanse in which I successfully removed many

stones. Gail, if I remember correctly, did not remove anything for her first

one or two flushes until I prompted her to carry on with it and she eventually

had success. Apple juice, the malic acid being the agent, is superb at breaking

down the stagnant bile and will greatly improve your success. I didn't use this

because of Hypoglycemia. I can't remember if Gail tried it.

Goodnight all!

faithfully,

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

>who says this is the best colon cleanse there is?

Thousands of people who have done the same thing!! And it's a whole lot more

than just a colon cleanse.

>maybe your organs just got

>too weak at a certain point and you lacked the ability to cleanse. you did

>mention at one point that you fried your adrenal glands as a result of this.

Aahh - You, dear Luck, have a memory like all of my ex-girlfriends!! The kind

that drags up every little thing you've mentioned from a hundred years ago and

throws it back in your face!!!!! ;-) hehehe You're right, I did theorise

about the possibility that my fast could have further weakened my already

damaged adrenals. But, I don't think that has any bearing whatsoever on lacking

the ability to cleanse. I cleansed alright!!! :-)

>i seriously doubt you removed everything from there-- if you did i doubt that

>you would be ill now. think about it.

I can assure you, my colon was sparkling like a polished copper pipe! My

continuing ill health now is due to totally unrelated gland problems. My fast

actually cured my severe long-standing and totally debillitating Crohns disease

/ IBS!

> did you drink olive oil

To be honest, I think your olive oil colouring the stones theory is clutching

at straws. Bile is the same green as the stones. It's medical fact that gall

stones are coloured green by bile. The olive oil I used was not at all green!

>i was 6' and totally lean and cut with

>muscle.

Same as I, after my fast - I looked like Bruce Lee!!! :-)

>2000 stones. ok let's do some arithmetic. how big is a liver. how big is a

>stone. let's say an average stone is a pea? i don't know-- i'm guessing. what

>is the volume of 2000 peas? sounds bigger than a human liver.

Obviously, they were not all so large! And, as someone just mentioned too, my

liver was extremely swollen and painful to touch - as verified by my Dr. Since

the liver cleanse - no longer a problem!

>the ascending colon and flexture(is tis a owrd?) where it turns into the

>transverse colon is right next to the liver area. if you indeed can feel

>your liver ducts then i would imagine you are so advanced as to not need any

>medical assistance at all.

When the bile ducts are so swollen and sore from this hard pebbles, trust me,

you will feel them. I don't think that's advanced at all ! Whether the actual

sensation is initiated by sensors in the bile duct / liver or the colon, I don't

know, but it's certainly a feeling of a bag of marbles being emptied out of the

liver area and not of some cemented old crap being loosened from the colon!

>I HAVE DONE IT. have you not read my post? this is why i am posting the

>RESULTS of my experience. not hypothesis.

YES, obviously. I was meaning to stop analysing and get on and do it. Not

just one cleanse but ALL the cleanses necessary to clean those stones out of

your liver!!!

>i am sincerely hoping that i am just wrong,

You are!

> i will be happy beyond belief to eat crow on this post

And I will be happy to feed it to you!!

>is there precedent for this? that in some cases the liver

>is so clogged that nothing comes out until after a few cleanses?

Apparently, many people have stagnant bile that needs breaking down and will

not remove stones until they have done this. I used some specific Chinese Herbs

for a month before doing my first cleanse in which I successfully removed many

stones. Gail, if I remember correctly, did not remove anything for her first

one or two flushes until I prompted her to carry on with it and she eventually

had success. Apple juice, the malic acid being the agent, is superb at breaking

down the stagnant bile and will greatly improve your success. I didn't use this

because of Hypoglycemia. I can't remember if Gail tried it.

Goodnight all!

faithfully,

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

With all this talk about fasting and liver cleansing, not once have I

heard mentioned " phase one activation " and " phase two conjugation " .

These are two critical liver processes that deal with the neutralization

and elimination of toxins. Anybody thinking about fasting in my opinion

should learn about these two aspects of liver biochemistry and learn how

to support or " up regulate' these two functions if they are deficient.

If you fast with a sub par phase one or phase two cycle, you will do

real harm to yourself, more so than if you do not fast. We have come a

long way since the days of Herbert Shelton whose ideas are outdated and

dangerous if followed without knowledge of the importance of the

liver/fasting connection. Yes fasting can be useful, but only after one

has seen to it that the liver is properly supported so it can handle the

release of dangerous toxins that a fast can bring on.

Dennis Lipter

[Guest guest]

With all this talk about fasting and liver cleansing, not once have I

heard mentioned " phase one activation " and " phase two conjugation " .

These are two critical liver processes that deal with the neutralization

and elimination of toxins. Anybody thinking about fasting in my opinion

should learn about these two aspects of liver biochemistry and learn how

to support or " up regulate' these two functions if they are deficient.

If you fast with a sub par phase one or phase two cycle, you will do

real harm to yourself, more so than if you do not fast. We have come a

long way since the days of Herbert Shelton whose ideas are outdated and

dangerous if followed without knowledge of the importance of the

liver/fasting connection. Yes fasting can be useful, but only after one

has seen to it that the liver is properly supported so it can handle the

release of dangerous toxins that a fast can bring on.

Dennis Lipter

[Guest guest]

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

Hi Luck,

Here's the website for Dr. 's liver cleanse:

http://www..net/info/info.htm Click on the liver cleanse and you'll

also get pictures of stones. See if any look like what you passed. If

you're REALLY serious about proof, have an ultrasound done of your liver

before a cleanse; do a cleanse; then have another ultrasound of the liver

done. It'd cost you a few bucks tho. I really don't even know if an

ultrasound would show up anything in a liver. I know that's how they

discovered I had gallstones. I had them give me the stones after surgery.

There were a total of 99 (I counted) small stones. They took up a very

small amount of room. The liver is so large it can easily house 2,000

stones. Now in answer to your questions.

> gail -- if you are reading this-- did it take you a few cleanses before

you

> actually got a single stone out?

I was soooooo disappointed with my first flush. I only got around 15 very

small stones. I was so naive and ignorant I thought to myself, my liver

must be in pretty good shape since I didn't have hardly any stones! So what

if I'm sick, my liver is fine! Ha! (IMO anybody that's sick needs to do a

liver cleanse!) Then I read on Dr. 's site one won't get many stones

if their liver is infested with parasites! Bought myself a zapper and did a

parasite cleanse. The next cleanse I got sooooooo many stones, all

different sizes ranging from tiny pea to walnut size. NO kidding! The

second cleanse was such a success! What was talking about feeling

the stones travel out the liver is putting it mildly. It is such a weird

sensation. If a man wants to know how it feels to have a baby without any

pain, without any uterus, and even without a baby just have an impacted

liver and do a flush! I could literally feel the liver contracting and I no

more had any control over it than one does in labor. I didn't have this

sensation during the first flush, and others after not as strongly. So I

quess it's depended on if you're passing a lot of stones.

So, NO, it didn't actually take me a few cleanses before passing any stones.

But I did have to do the parastie cleanse to have a really successful

cleanse.

do you also think it is possible to get

> something stuck there- and then the duct relaxes after it is over and

things

> return to normal?

I certainly do! If fact that's what a gallbladder attack is. When a stone

gets stuck in the duct, it causes extreme pain. After it breaks loose, the

pain is completely gone. Eventually, it can get so stuck, it won't break

loose. This is a bad situation. I can't remember but I read somewhere (I

think it was on Dr. 's site) that you can take some things to break up

the stones so they will pass easily.

(hopefully) anyway-- this is all new territory for me. so i

> am trying to learn as much as possible. i will try to make some sense of

it

> over the next few days. i'm a bit disappointed so far that nothing came

out.

Like I said, check out the site. I think that will answer alot of your

questions. I personally hope you will continue at least one more flush.

There's not one of us here who's posted bad results with the cleanse. By

bad I mean stating how it didn't do us any good at all. All I've heard have

stated just the opposite. We've all benefited in some way. I also hope you

didn't feel like we were beating you up today. Do take care.

Sincerely,

Gail

>

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: liver cleanse or colon cleanse?

Hi Luck,

Here's the website for Dr. 's liver cleanse:

http://www..net/info/info.htm Click on the liver cleanse and you'll

also get pictures of stones. See if any look like what you passed. If

you're REALLY serious about proof, have an ultrasound done of your liver

before a cleanse; do a cleanse; then have another ultrasound of the liver

done. It'd cost you a few bucks tho. I really don't even know if an

ultrasound would show up anything in a liver. I know that's how they

discovered I had gallstones. I had them give me the stones after surgery.

There were a total of 99 (I counted) small stones. They took up a very

small amount of room. The liver is so large it can easily house 2,000

stones. Now in answer to your questions.

> gail -- if you are reading this-- did it take you a few cleanses before

you

> actually got a single stone out?

I was soooooo disappointed with my first flush. I only got around 15 very

small stones. I was so naive and ignorant I thought to myself, my liver

must be in pretty good shape since I didn't have hardly any stones! So what

if I'm sick, my liver is fine! Ha! (IMO anybody that's sick needs to do a

liver cleanse!) Then I read on Dr. 's site one won't get many stones

if their liver is infested with parasites! Bought myself a zapper and did a

parasite cleanse. The next cleanse I got sooooooo many stones, all

different sizes ranging from tiny pea to walnut size. NO kidding! The

second cleanse was such a success! What was talking about feeling

the stones travel out the liver is putting it mildly. It is such a weird

sensation. If a man wants to know how it feels to have a baby without any

pain, without any uterus, and even without a baby just have an impacted

liver and do a flush! I could literally feel the liver contracting and I no

more had any control over it than one does in labor. I didn't have this

sensation during the first flush, and others after not as strongly. So I

quess it's depended on if you're passing a lot of stones.

So, NO, it didn't actually take me a few cleanses before passing any stones.

But I did have to do the parastie cleanse to have a really successful

cleanse.

do you also think it is possible to get

> something stuck there- and then the duct relaxes after it is over and

things

> return to normal?

I certainly do! If fact that's what a gallbladder attack is. When a stone

gets stuck in the duct, it causes extreme pain. After it breaks loose, the

pain is completely gone. Eventually, it can get so stuck, it won't break

loose. This is a bad situation. I can't remember but I read somewhere (I

think it was on Dr. 's site) that you can take some things to break up

the stones so they will pass easily.

(hopefully) anyway-- this is all new territory for me. so i

> am trying to learn as much as possible. i will try to make some sense of

it

> over the next few days. i'm a bit disappointed so far that nothing came

out.

Like I said, check out the site. I think that will answer alot of your

questions. I personally hope you will continue at least one more flush.

There's not one of us here who's posted bad results with the cleanse. By

bad I mean stating how it didn't do us any good at all. All I've heard have

stated just the opposite. We've all benefited in some way. I also hope you

didn't feel like we were beating you up today. Do take care.

Sincerely,

Gail

>

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi DL,

Since no one here probably knows what you are talking about, can you

please elaborate.-Like how does one know if they have a sub par phase

one or phase two cycle and what can be done to " upregulate " .

But first it would be helpful to know what is a sub par phase one or

phase two cycle?

Best Wishes,

Hyperbaroman

-- In oxyplus@y..., dl <dlipter@a...> wrote:

> With all this talk about fasting and liver cleansing, not once have

I

> heard mentioned " phase one activation " and " phase two conjugation " .

> These are two critical liver processes that deal with the

neutralization

> and elimination of toxins. Anybody thinking about fasting in my

opinion

> should learn about these two aspects of liver biochemistry and

learn how

> to support or " up regulate' these two functions if they are

deficient.

> If you fast with a sub par phase one or phase two cycleou will ,

> real harm to yourself, more so than if you do not fast. We have

come a

> long way since the days of Herbert Shelton whose ideas are outdated

and

> dangerous if followed without knowledge of the importance of the

> liver/fasting connection. Yes fasting can be useful, but only after

one

> has seen to it that the liver is properly supported so it can

handle the

> release of dangerous toxins that a fast can bring on.

>

> Dennis Lipter