Re: 7 year old daughter on spectrum

[Guest guest]

needs a good functional behavior assessment. Behavior is not

random, we just need to pinpoint the causes.

Punishment is never much of an answer. You can eliminate behavior with

punishment but something else will just take its place. To be

effective, you need to reward desirable behavior. As a teacher, I find

this to be really hard in practice. I have 8 students who need

individual attention so good behavior is often missed while I deal with

the squeaky wheels. But I am reminded of my failure to reward good

behavior when someone has a meltdown.

As far as excellent books like " A Work in Progress " , look for a used

copy. Good places to check are half.com, ebay and Amazon.com's used

section. If you are persistent, you will find an inexpensive copy. It

is worth the work.

R

[Guest guest]

Its so hard my heart aches for you. We are in the same situation,

(except no help from school) I feel like such a failure cause Ive tried

vitamins (as many as I can afford) massage, yoga, joint compression,

therapy, just everything and I dont know why my son acts out at school.

I have asked him and he said stress....he jsut cant deal with the stress

of school. Good luck I hope you find answers..

ALlie

[Guest guest]

Is verbal? What grade is she in? Is she in a special class? Is this a new teacher? Are the academics to difficult for her? It sounds like she is just overwhelmed from something at school. It sounds like escape or avoidance behavior. How is she at home? Has she had ABA therapy? Do you think sending her home has reinforced the behavior. If Karac was sent home for bad behavior, he would find all kinds of bad behavior to be sent home. Many disciplines that work for regular kids are reinforcing for autistic kids. Pat K

[Guest guest]

> until 4 weeks ago. Both at home and school,

> has been acting out. She has started out by ripping her school

work,

> knocking drinks and other items off tables, throwing things.

***I agree with the person who said that behavior is not random.

Talking to the teacher and asking a few questions may reveal some

possibilities. Nothing may stand out as you indicated, but 4 weeks

ago, was there a change in the curriculum, staff/student ratio, class

schedule, people present, etc.? Or, did something that was not close

in time to school change (e.g., medication changes, diet, sleep

patterns, etc.)? Some investigation may turn up something to explore

further. If you and the teacher can't identify any changes, then the

teacher could still get some information about when the problems

occur (e.g., time of day, activity in progress, people present). The

information taken over a few days may reveal a pattern.

>Obviously we need a more

> unorthodox way to deal with this. I am at a loss!

***You might not need anything terribly unusual. If the problems are

related to not wanting to do certain work tasks, then something

different can be done with those tasks. If the problems are related

to the attention that results, then something can be done about that

too. The point to consider has to do with collecting information

that can lead to developing an hypothesis regarding what your

daughter " gets " out of behaving the way she does. You can even start

by having your daughter's teacher take 15-m and answering the

questions at the following link:

http://www.monacoassociates.com/mas/MAS.html

It's free, and it can provide a good starting point.

> they have it. In the mean time, I have a meeting scheduled with her

> teacher, her aides and other school administrators on Wednesday

> morning. Until then is unoffically suspended. Right now, I am

> so disappointed, not so much in but in me for not being able

> to figure out the next step.

***This, of course, cannot be a long-term solution. Having no access

to education will not help and will quickly (10 days) violate

her rights regarding placement (Public Law 105-17 of the IDEA). This

also is a terrible burdon that you're accepting. I really think that

you're being too hard on yourself to expect that you can diagnose

and/or solve the problem from home. When at school, it really is the

job of the school personnel to figure things out. They might not be

able to, and that's okay. No one solves every problem thrown at

them. However, it is their responsibility to get outside help when

they do not have the resources to solve the problem.

>

> Also, I have been looking in to the vitamin B-6, magnesium and DMG.

> I wonder if anyone on this list has tried it and if so what dosages

> and did it work?

***These are interesting suggestions, but in the absence of

information regarding why these problems are occurring, it's

difficult to think of a good reason to justify recommending treatment

changes. One can quickly go down the path of trying many random

treatments simply because " nothing else " has been working and " what

could it hurt " reasons; accept subjecting to ineffective

treatments, possibly wasting time in finding things that at least

have a chance of working (i.e., there's good evidence that those

things have helped someone), or could be a waste of other resources

(e.g., money).

>

> Thank you all for listening.

>

> Penny &

>

***Good luck!

-

[Guest guest]

gtodd504@... wrote:

I do not know what kind of school program/grade/etc your child

is in. My son (10 yr old) is in a special ed day class. He has behavior

issues. The first time a teacher called to tell me my son wasnt

behaving himself and wasnt doing his work...so I should come and pick

him up...I laughed straight into the phone. "you have to be kidding me!

Do you think tomorrow he will come in and snap out of it if he goes

home today!!?"

I have had a teenage autistic girl in my class for 3 years. She came

to me with many severe behavioral issues. I just assumed that my job

as teacher and behaviorist was to deal with the behaviors. So I did

(successfully in most cases). Later her elderly foster mother told me

that the teacher at the grammar school called at least twice a week

for J to be taken home. The foster mom doesn't even drive so she had

to take public transit or find a ride. I might say that J was

difficult and a self-mutilator but not violent with others. Later the

poor foster mom told me that she had almost decided that J was just

going to go back into the system because she wasn't up to coming to the

school every other day. In three years, I have never called her to get

J.

But I have send students home. In fact, I did so yesterday. T,

non-verbal, violent with others and a runner, was having a very bad

day. He ran away and raided the cafeteria--stealing food and

terrorizing the staff. Since he has permanently disabled one aide, no

one is eager to deal with him when he is in that mood. We were going

on a field trip and I was afraid that he would run away there so I

called his father to come get him.

I guess my point is: It depends on the child and the situation.

R

[Guest guest]

> Since he has permanently disabled one aide, no

> one is eager to deal with him when he is in that mood. We were

going on

> a field trip and I was afraid that he would run away there so I

called

> his father to come get him.

> I guess my point is: It depends on the child and the situation.

> R

>

Would it have been possible to have the student participate by

having the father be a chaperon? I agree that there are

circumstances that necessitate making alternative arrangements for

students, but we should also look at the extent to which the choices

we make are for our own convenience, infringe upon the rights of

students, as well as how therapeutic the choices are for the

student. Your decision to have the boy go home may have been the

best one to make in that situation; I'm not judging that. I am,

however, pointing out that if that same decision is made for all

future outings, then that student, ultimately, is not being given an

opportunity to do something that everyone else is doing. If there

is no teaching to the problem behavior, then I think it would be

fair to say that there is no reason to expect the problem to get

better.

-

[Guest guest]

This all sounds SO familiar. This year when we started what we tohought

would be my ds newest placement (in a consolodated special ed

classroom), the " honeymoon " period lasted a mere 5 days, then he was all

out behaviors. The first time they called I picked him up, then he

repeated the behaviors and I told them I would not pick him up. He

upped the Ante over and over, but finally I had his behaviorist tell

them what I had been saying all along, that he was having the behaviors

to be with Mom. makes you get a warm fuzzy huh?

I guess you ahve to look for the small fuzzies within the sometimes

horrible storms that we have.

J

wrote:

> gtodd504@... wrote:

>

>> I do not know what kind of school program/grade/etc your child is in.

>> My son (10 yr old) is in a special ed day class. He has behavior

>> issues. The first time a teacher called to tell me my son wasnt

>> behaving himself and wasnt doing his work...so I should come and pick

>> him up...I laughed straight into the phone. " you have to be kidding

>> me! Do you think tomorrow he will come in and snap out of it if he

>> goes home today!!? "

>

> I have had a teenage autistic girl in my class for 3 years. She came

> to me with many severe behavioral issues. I just assumed that my job

> as teacher and behaviorist was to deal with the behaviors. So I did

> (successfully in most cases). Later her elderly foster mother told me

> that the teacher at the grammar school called at least twice a week

> for J to be taken home. The foster mom doesn't even drive so she had

> to take public transit or find a ride. I might say that J was

> difficult and a self-mutilator but not violent with others. Later the

> poor foster mom told me that she had almost decided that J was just

> going to go back into the system because she wasn't up to coming to

> the school every other day. In three years, I have never called her

> to get J.

> But I have send students home. In fact, I did so yesterday. T,

> non-verbal, violent with others and a runner, was having a very bad

> day. He ran away and raided the cafeteria--stealing food and

> terrorizing the staff. Since he has permanently disabled one aide, no

> one is eager to deal with him when he is in that mood. We were going

> on a field trip and I was afraid that he would run away there so I

> called his father to come get him.

> I guess my point is: It depends on the child and the situation.

> R

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been running in to a similar situation with my son. 10 year old

very strong aspergers, anxiety, rages. The school keeps excluding him

from field trips. They have on a couple of times sent an aide for him

(when its convenient) There is a plaentarium field trip scheduled

tomorrow. The school has had this trip scheduled for a month. I have

asked if my son is going. They said they dont know, they will check on

aide availability. I offered to go along. But I said I have a doc

appointment that day, that time! I need to know ahead of time to change

it. IT took 6 weeks to schedule in for the specilist (with a referral)

They said they would let me know....long story short ..blah blah blah.

They called me today at 2 pm and said that If I want my son to go on the

field trip tomorrow at 11;00 am. I would ahve to pick him up from

school, sign him out, drive him there, chaprone him, drive him back to

school and sign him in. I said cant I just meet them there. The field

trip is 10 mins from my house...while school is 20 ---opposite

direction. Cant he just ride the bus back to school with his class??? He

has NEVER been or had any problems on the bus..EVER. They said NO..if he

goes he will be solely my responsiblity and in no way associated with

the school. I just hung up ...too shocked to speak.

ALlie

[Guest guest]

> the school. I just hung up ...too shocked to speak.

>

>

> ALlie

>

This is sad for at least two reasons: One, it seems like all the

responsibility for finding school-related inclusion opportunities

falls on your shoulders. That doesn't seem equitable to me. Two,

your son is not going to learn how to manage these situations if they

are not addressed. Besides the practical implications, it also seems

like an infringement on rights:

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

That's just how it strikes me.

I can understand a school wanting to avoid a potentially dangerous

situation. If there is good reason to believe that participation in

some activities comes with too great a risk, then inclusion in the

activity would become too restrictive for the student (the risk to

the student is too great). Not including the student in the activity

may be the responsible and correct thing to do. But it seems to me

like there should be some process underway to address the issue

(e.g., offer to hire a one-to-one for outings. Address community

participation in the IEP). It just doesn't seem good enough to me

for a school to say, " If you want your child to be a part of this

school community, then you have to figure out, by yourself, how to

make it happen. " Does this seem reasonable?

Best wishes, Allie. I hope things work out for you and your son.

-

[Guest guest]

My 3yo (almost 4) autistic boy had to stay home from school a couple

of weeks ago and missed a field trip to the museum because they said

he couldn't go unless I went to one-on-one chaperone him.

Unfortunately we had an appointment to get our house appraised that

morning and I wasn't given enough time to reschedule the appraisal

(like you, Allie, I was told late in the afternoon the day before the

trip).

(They (the school) also still have the money I paid for him to go on

that trip now that I think about it.....)

Anyway, they said he was just too much of a handful and they said it

would deminish the enjoyment of the trip for the other children. I

too was stunned and it just made me cry because his school is

normally so great with him. I felt very let down by this because they

let my little guy down. Needless to say we took him to the museum

that weekend and thank goodness he is either too young or too

autistic to feel slighted by the event. I felt slighted for him,

though.

I'm still kind of new to dealing with schools as he's only in

Preschool so I'm not sure what to expect and what to demand and what

to accept.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Kathy

((((hugs))) I feel your pain. My son is old enough to feel

slighted...actually down right enraged. I havent had much cooperation

with my sons school. I cant find schools in this area that actually work

with us. I feel like my son is an " afterthought " and its very sad. The

teachers have asked me why im so untrusting uh d'uh...I didnt start out

this way...Good luck to you. I would suggest getting a special ed book

on state law and be empowered with knowledge.

Allie

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support and perspective IT helps to get through the

difficult times knowing that iM not alone

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support and perspective IT helps to get through the

difficult times knowing that iM not alone