Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hi a, She sounds alot like my 7 yr old daughter whom has always walked on her toes since she was a baby. My daughter has no neurological or physical problems and according to her pedi has either started this habit and cannot stop or she was born with shortened heel cords. The problem if its done out of habit and is done constantly is that it can lead to tightened heal cords which needs to be corrected by casting the feet and ankles to force them to walk on their feet and thus stretching the heel cords naturally. I had taken my daughter to an orthopedist last fall for this problem and he gave me exercises that my daughter does twice a day to see if she can stretch the heel cords naturally prior to casting her. It doesnt seem to be working unfortunately and I think when she goes back in late February hes going to recommend the casting of her feet and ankles. As a last resort, the orthopedist said if the casting doesnt even work and she starts walking on her toes again, that surgery would be necessary to lengthen her heel cords. He told me that getting to the point of requiring surgery is rare but it can happen. Ellen Sweeney Unlocking Autism Representative, NJ http://www.unlockingautism.org Group Manager, Parents of Kids/Adults with Autism http://groups.msn.com/parentsofkidsadultswithautism *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* " I know of nobody who is purely autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some autistic moments which is why the planets all spin " - Jerry Newport *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* [ ] Toe Walking My boyfriend's child is 6 years old, and she has toe walked since she was a baby. She is not autistic and does not appear to have any delays, but she never walks on her feet, just her toes. He's concerned, but the mother isn't. Any ideas for us? a - Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Yes be very concerned!! I too was a toe walked and my father before me. I have severe calf problems because my muscles and tendons did not grow and are now too short for my leg. The doctor said the only way to correct it was surgery. When I was in junior high the made me walk heel toe and every teacher who saw me walk on my toes said heel toe. Very annoying but my problem would be much worse had they not. I can walk but no long distances without pain and running is out of the question. The doctor said that now if they see this in small children they work on correcting it immediately. [ ] Toe Walking My boyfriend's child is 6 years old, and she has toe walked since she was a baby. She is not autistic and does not appear to have any delays, but she never walks on her feet, just her toes. He's concerned, but the mother isn't. Any ideas for us? a - Illinois ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hi, I did do the casting, BOTOX, more casting, physical therapy, more BOTOX, and then she started walking on her toes again. Six months of medical work on my then 7 year old daughter (now 8) did nothing to get her off her toes. My daughter now has the Autism diagnosis, but not from behavior as much as from the biochemical aspect. That is why I posted the " Toe-Walking----Got Answers. " I am stumped. in Salt Lake City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 I don't think she's walking out of habit on her toes. Not from what I can see. I told the boyfriend exactly what you told me, that eventually her heel cords will tighten, and I think that's probably already happened. The mother is a real dim wit, and a nut case. He's been asking her for sometime to get this looked at, but she makes an appointment, than cancels it with an excuse. The only thing she's concerned with is geting her support check. a - Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 > My sister has Multiple Sclerosis (another autoimmune-prone family with > autism). Since she developed MS, she sometimes will walk on her toes. > She says it feels good and gives her higher energy. She asked her doctor > about it, who said it is not uncommon in MS, and is due to weakness in > the tendon from the MS. well, MS is also very much connected with mercury, so this seems like an interesting commonality. Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 pjand3kids wrote: >My boyfriend's child is 6 years old, and she has toe walked since she was a baby. She is not autistic and does not appear to have any delays, but she never walks on her feet, just her toes. He's concerned, but the mother isn't. Any ideas for us? > >a - Illinois > > My sister has Multiple Sclerosis (another autoimmune-prone family with autism). Since she developed MS, she sometimes will walk on her toes. She says it feels good and gives her higher energy. She asked her doctor about it, who said it is not uncommon in MS, and is due to weakness in the tendon from the MS. Walking on the toes strengthens the tendon. He actually told her it was beneficial to do it because it would strengthen the tendon. As usual, toe walking hasn't been studied much in autism, so who knows whether the MS model fits. Below is a short piece on toe walking by a medical organization, FWIW. ................................................. > >American Family Physician >> Idiopathic Toe Walking and Developmental Delays >> >> Toe walking in children may be associated with >> spastic cerebral palsy, spinal injury, myopathy, >> neuropathy, autism and pervasive developmental >> disorder. In some children, no cause is identified, >> and these children are said to have idiopathic toe walking. >> Previous studies found a correlation between >> idiopathic toe walking and learning problems and language impairment. Shulman >> and associates studied 13 children referred for idiopathic toe >> walking to assess language development, gross and >> fine motor skills, visuomotor development, sensory >> integration function and behavior problems. >> >> The children ranged in age from 1.6 years to 6.8 >> years. All of the children had normal results >> on neurologic examination. Seven children with >> developmental delay and three children with >> questionable developmental delay were also found to have a delay >> in receptive and/or expressive language development. >> Four of 12 children had delayed fine motor development, four of >> 10 had delayed visuomotor skills, and three of 11 >> had delayed gross motor skills. >> >> The authors conclude that idiopathic toe walking >> should be considered a marker for >> developmental problems and that children exhibiting >> toe walking should undergo a developmental assessment. >> >> Shulman LH, et al. Developmental implications of >> idiopathic toe walking. J Pediatr 1997;130:541-6. >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Ellen: my son is 15 years old. He has autism. He's been walking on his toes regularly since he was maybe 4??. He has great athletic ability, can ride a horse, go downhill skiing, swim, go rock climbing, ice skate, etc. etc. I would be very skeptical of someone telling you your daughter needs this type of surgery. When she's not toe walking, does she show any signs of physical/motor impairment? Just curious. - SB Ellen S wrote: >Hi a, > She sounds alot like my 7 yr old daughter whom has always walked on her toes since she was a baby. My daughter has no neurological or physical problems and according to her pedi has either started this habit and cannot stop or she was born with shortened heel cords. The problem if its done out of habit and is done constantly is that it can lead to tightened heal cords which needs to be corrected by casting the feet and ankles to force them to walk on their feet and thus stretching the heel cords naturally. I had taken my daughter to an orthopedist last fall for this problem and he gave me exercises that my daughter does twice a day to see if she can stretch the heel cords naturally prior to casting her. It doesnt seem to be working unfortunately and I think when she goes back in late February hes going to recommend the casting of her feet and ankles. As a last resort, the orthopedist said if the casting doesnt even work and she starts walking on her toes again, that surgery would be necessary to lengthen her heel cords. He told me that getting to the point of requiring surgery is rare but it can happen. > >Ellen Sweeney >Unlocking Autism Representative, NJ >http://www.unlockingautism.org >Group Manager, Parents of Kids/Adults with Autism >http://groups.msn.com/parentsofkidsadultswithautism > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 --- In , pjand3kids <pjand3kids@j...> wrote: > My boyfriend's child is 6 years old, and she has toe walked since she was a baby. She is not autistic and does not appear to have any delays, but she never walks on her feet, just her toes. He's concerned, but the mother isn't. Any ideas for us? Consider removing milk and/or gluten from the diet, or enzymes. Can be a sign of bowel impaction. Can also be a sign of yeast. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 No she shows no physical motor impairment. I have heard problems could arise like the ones mentioned including lack of muscular growth and pain and discomfort when walking for long periods of time. Even now she seems to tire easily when shes been walking around alot and she complains of cramping in her legs. I dont think I'd ever go to the extreme of allowing her ankles to be operated on but I am considering him casting her as the last resort to try and correct it. Ellen > > >Hi a, > > She sounds alot like my 7 yr old daughter whom has always walked on her toes since she was a baby. My daughter has no neurological or physical problems and according to her pedi has either started this habit and cannot stop or she was born with shortened heel cords. The problem if its done out of habit and is done constantly is that it can lead to tightened heal cords which needs to be corrected by casting the feet and ankles to force them to walk on their feet and thus stretching the heel cords naturally. I had taken my daughter to an orthopedist last fall for this problem and he gave me exercises that my daughter does twice a day to see if she can stretch the heel cords naturally prior to casting her. It doesnt seem to be working unfortunately and I think when she goes back in late February hes going to recommend the casting of her feet and ankles. As a last resort, the orthopedist said if the casting doesnt even work and she starts walking on her toes again, that surgery would be necessary to lengthen her heel cords. He told me that getting to the point of requiring surgery is rare but it can happen. > > > >Ellen Sweeney > >Unlocking Autism Representative, NJ > >http://www.unlockingautism.org > >Group Manager, Parents of Kids/Adults with Autism > >http://groups.msn.com/parentsofkidsadultswithautism > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 >>>>>>.Consider removing milk and/or gluten from the diet, or enzymes.<<<<<<< That will never happen. The mother is lazy. She feeds the kids junk and rarely cooks " real " meals. They live off of boxed crap! The mother drinks Mountain Dew all day and smokes like a chimney! a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Sometimes just increasing magnesium helps alot! R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 In a message dated 1/16/03 8:14:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, pjand3kids@... writes: << My boyfriend's child is 6 years old, and she has toe walked since she was a baby. She is not autistic and does not appear to have any delays, but she never walks on her feet, just her toes. He's concerned, but the mother isn't. Any ideas for us? >> My son is autistic, and when he did toe walk, what I did was just push his shoulders down. I kept doing it, and eventually he stopped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 , Does your daughter see an occupational therapist? Our son's OT has tried a taping procedure which helps while it is on his legs - the tape stimulates the muscles in some way causing him to walk more flat footed. It's a stretchy tape that is started at about the knee coming around the front and down and around ending at the insole of the foot. Even having just one leg taped helps. Unfortunately for us once our ds gets home the first thing he does is take off his socks and shoes. Then the tape under his foot starts curling up which makes him aware of it causing him to pull the tape off At home he's always barefooted so we really can't keep the tape on for any substantial length of time. I'm thinking of trying sending him to school taped to see if that will keep it on long enough to benefit him. Elaine > Hi, > > I did do the casting, BOTOX, more casting, physical therapy, more BOTOX, and > then she started walking on her toes again. Six months of medical work on my > then 7 year old daughter (now 8) did nothing to get her off her toes. My > daughter now has the Autism diagnosis, but not from behavior as much as from > the biochemical aspect. That is why I posted the " Toe-Walking---- Got > Answers. " I am stumped. > > in Salt Lake City > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I imagine it originally comes from the neurological dysfuction. I remember Dr G. discussing this when he was trying to prevent a susceptable child from developing . The mom had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. If I remember correctly he took the toe walking as a symptom that the immune system was under stress. The child didn't end up with . If your child was toe walking for quite awhile, the muscles will end up tightening/shortening. I think ladies who wear heels all the time will have an idea of what that's like. Trying to put your foot flat is pretty uncomfortable. I remember seeing something on therapy that helps stretch the muscles. Whether it's needed would depend on how bad the problem is. Cheryl ----Original Message Follows---- From: Regina Feferman <help2live@...> Reply- Subject: toe walking Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:35:10 -0800 (PST) Hello, Does anyone have problem with toe waking? My son is doing this since he was 15 month and it was the " last drop " during the hard time when we try to figure out what is going on with him. He does not have any sensory issues except for it (or they are minor) and he is hight functional child (still hard to say at age four, sometimes NT kids are doing such a things that my child would never consider to do). Anyway, he went very long way with ABA and Dr.G protocol, but he still walk on his toes (less then it was a year ago). Now he understands when we ask him to walk on flat foot and he try to do it. We try to keep him in shoes all the time, but if you let him go by his own he would rather go in his toes. Again, it is getting better all the time, but sometimes I simply do not understand how he can do it and fill comfortable. Any thoughts will be very helpful. Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the opinion of the Research Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 I wouldn't necessarily conclude it " goes away. " I'd get OT after an eval + behavior mod put on the IEP. Never assume anything when it comes to autism. msherrett. >>But remember, it's not autism. It's . Not that OT and behavior intervention aren't good and helpful (my son receives both), but just a reminder that we are dealing with symptoms of a medical illness, not just behavior issues. Marcia is right - these things do go away as the child gets well, but OT and behavior intervention definitely help in the meantime. Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Kristy, My son was put into braces at a young age (to the knee) because his ankles pronated (rolled in) so much. He had hypotonia (weak muscle tone). He could not toe walk in the stiff braces, and that put a stop to it. I have heard some people say they think toe walking is a sensory thing... due to kids not being able to stand the feeling of the floor on their feet. I don't know if it is the pressure or the texture of the floor that bothered them. I'll bet someone on the group may pitch in an idea about reducing the sensitivity in that area (such as brushing). I don't know a lot about that, but I know it helps some kids. Caroline > On 6/17/03 3:55 PM, " Kristy " <K@...> wrote: > What do you attribute to helping the toe walking. My son toe walks. > Kristy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 We did the brushing and joint compressions on our son for about 9 months and it did help with a number of sensory issues, including toe walking, walking on grass and sand. It helped a little I should say. More importantly, his sensory issues regarding toe walking, walking on grass, sand etc. have pretty much disappeared after treatments with the antivirals...coincidence?? (We stopped the brushing prior to starting meds.) > > > What do you attribute to helping the toe walking. My son toe walks. > > Kristy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi, We have our daughter on Valtrex and the Dr. (Austin, TX) protocol. When I spoke with Dr. 's office, they indicated that many of the kids with a virus (often Herpes hiding out in the nerves) toe-walk. They see it all the time and they see toe-walking going away with successful treatment. I did not talk to Dr. but to his nurse. This may or may not be true. However, we are on 4 weeks of the anti-viral protocol and I see less stiffness in my 9 year old daughter and PERHAPS less stiffness in her lower legs resulting in less severe toe-walking. We are still chelating, which is what Dr. 's office indicated we should do. This is just a thought about the reason for toe-walking. I too have been at wit's end trying to figure out why many or most of my daughter's odd behaviors have gone away with chelation BUT not the toe-walking. We do believe that we have her dysbiosis under control. It has been this way since March of this year. The toe-walking was about the same even when dysbiosis was either gone or very minimal. in Salt Lake City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 How interesting, ! So, what anti-viral protocol are you on? marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 , Was she constipated? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Hi, My daughter is on the protocol that Dr. Kendal in Austin, TX uses. I just found out what it was and then talked at length with his nurse. Here it is: (1) Valtrex; (2) 3 weeks of Cortef (hydrocortisone), then as needed; (3) HGH (Human Growth Hormone) Homeopathic patch nightly; (4) Lots of fatty acids to help with remyelination. Hope this helps-- in Salt Lake City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 What your Dr. may not tell you about toe walking. Is that it is a deficiency of Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) or possibly B6. Due a search on B1 deficiency and toe walking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Deb, Here is more info on Toe Walking - I meant to include the link in my post but forgot it. http://www.emedicine.com/orthoped/topic451.htm ~ Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 My son did for about a month or two when he was around age 2.5. I think most kids go through a period of toe walking. I was told at the time it was another " red flag " and another reason they mis-diagnosed him as autistic. *sigh* I've never heard of it being related to apraxia, but I could see how it would be a sensory thing. Miche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hi .. my 8 year old adopted daughter always went barefoot in the orphanage but didn't walk til she was 3 and half years old.. She would toe walk quite often for the first few years when we got her at age 4 and half whenever she was barefoot. this is not the tippy toe walk ..it is more like the toes are folded under the foot and she is actually walking on toe joints..Very rarely she will try to do it now but her OT discourages it. We have had to retrain and repeat many times what we mean when we ask her to walk on her tip toes. Yes it is mentioned as common on the PDD spectrum but it is seen elseware as the doctors she has seen say her personality is definitely craving social attention. I had thought she had CP but that has been ruled out also. I also think it is sensory related ..she prefers to be barefooted to be able to feel the ground below her and when she is trying to get her balance on the small trampoline at PT she prefers to be barefooted also. I think there is an advantage to this or a bright side she can fit into ballarina shoes with the block of wood at the toe if she ever wants to be a ballarina. I have a question for you and other Moms of kids with apraxia ..do your kids crave their chin be massaged??? ..it is almost as if the nerves are numb and coming to life to her on her chin. Roxanne _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Oakes, Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: [ ] Toe walking Hi there! This is just a curiousity question. has been a toe walker for as long as I can remember (probably since she started walking). Our Developmental Pediatrician noticed it and commented that it was somehow related to the apraxia (for reference, check out the brief mention of it on " Ed Chapman's Speech and Developmental Delays Page " at http://edchapman. <http://edchapman.tripod.com/Toe.html> tripod.com/Toe.html <http://edchapman. <http://edchapman.tripod.com/Toe.html> tripod.com/Toe.html> ). It only occurs when is not wearing shoes. Our SEIT commented on it yesterday again and it made me curious as to how common apraxia and toe walking might be. That being said, are any of your apraxic children also " toe walkers " ? Also, for those of you with older kids, did the toe walking persist, or did it eventually fade away? All comments and discussion are welcomed! Thank you:-) Warm regards, ****************** (Rochester, NY) Mom to , 3.2 years, Verbal Apraxia & , 1 year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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