Lead again

[Guest guest]

Hi,

There seems to be an exceptionally high number of families on this

list with kids with high lead. My daughter (ASD, CAPD, SPD, dyslexia,

dysgraphia, visual processing problems, motor planning problems, low

tone but nonetheless quite high functioning) is lucky enough to be

toxic in lead, copper and mercury. I think we have her copper under

control and she's done 16 rounds of DMSA only and 10 rounds of DMSA +

ALA following the Cutler protocol since last July. (I've also been

chelating myself with DMSA and sometimes ALA and trying to get my

copper down. I've done 40 rounds since May.)

I must say I have not really seen any " wows " with my daughter (who is

9 and 80 lbs). (On the other hand, I have felt great progress, so I'm

definitely convinced that chelation can be worthwhile.) Do those of

you with kids with multiple metal problems think it takes longer to

see progress? I'm trying to decide if it is her age, her multiple

metal problems, or something else that is impeding progress. I've

also seen Andy Cutler write some scary things about lack of T3 causing

IQ drops in kids with lead. (My daughter has a 51 point discrepancy

between her verbal IQ and her processing IQ results on the WISC IV.)

Are any of you doing anything specific about that? I don't have blood

tests of her thyroid function, but could get them if convinced they

are needed. I definitely intend to keep going with the chelation, I

just wonder what else I should be doing.

BTW, we've both done virastop, OLE, elderberry, lysine, etc. as

anti-virals. My daughter broke out in an interesting rash that I

assume was a virus of some kind leaving her body and I no longer have

chronically swollen lymph nodes.

Thanks,

W.

[Guest guest]

--- In Autism Treatment , Mum231ASD@... wrote

> >>>Yes I think its does take longer and Andy says Pb+Hg is worse

together

> than either one alone

Still after 26 rounds, copper lowering, antivirals, etc. I expected to

see more. So far, all I've seen is yeastier and more tired the last

day of the round and the day after. My daughter has always made slow

steady progress and that continues, but nothing has happened that I

could really attribute to these various interventios. Just the viral

rash. Maybe I should be happy with continued progress after age 8

when I guess many kids plateau.

> Lead gets stored in the bones, if we could pull it all in one go

> wouldn't our kids collapse?

Now there's a worry I would have never thought of.

> Andy also counsels about the plateau you go through with chelation

that is

> often observed 6-12 months whic is fitting in yuor time frame here.

I think I am finding that in my own chelation, but we never saw much

in the beginning with my daughter. However, at 80lbs she is only now

getting 20mg DMSA + 12.5mg ALA 9 doses/day. Maybe she has not been

high enough long enough.

> Did you do high Zinc and Molyb to get the copper down?

Yes, plus milk thistle, glycine, taurine, low copper diet. I also

take phosphatidylcholine, but my daughter can't tolerate eggs or soy.

> I have read that ALA inhibits the excretion of copper so not to use

that if you are too high but Andy has revised his defination of too

high per DDI test in his new book

I have been following his HTI recommendations.

> We didn;t actually see any progress at all for 20 rounds although

that is

> unusual.

How old was Sam when you started?

> We just started round 106 today....................who said marathon?

Awesome, but sad, too. No one should have to go through that.

W.

P.S. Have you done anything about T3?

[Guest guest]

>

>

> We just started round 106 today....................who said marathon?

>

I don't think marathon is truly the right word for you Mandi. Perhaps

IronMan (or Ironwoman in this case) or Triathlon or UltraMarathon

would be more accurate. I know there's one Ultramarathon that is 135

miles through Death Valley and up a mountain. It makes real marathons

look like a walk in the park.

Anita

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Still after 26 rounds, copper lowering, antivirals, etc. I expected

to

> see more. So far, all I've seen is yeastier and more tired the last

> day of the round and the day after. My daughter has always made slow

> steady progress and that continues, but nothing has happened that I

> could really attribute to these various interventios. Just the viral

> rash. Maybe I should be happy with continued progress after age 8

> when I guess many kids plateau.

>

,

I'm wondering how long you did the antivirals. For my son, we've now

had a number of viral rashes, but we've only just started the

protocol. Each time we up the protocol, there is a rash. I know that

some kids have done well with a second complete viral protocol after

the successful first one.

My son has also done about 26 rounds. 80 days. We do longer rounds

now so actually only 20 rounds. I'm finding that we're more

successful with the 6 day rounds. I've this theory that after the

first few days the lead available has been pulled and then the

chelators can access the other metals more easily. I'm not sure how

valid my theory is, but I intend to ask at autism treatment if anyone

has seen this kind of thing in action.

We're not seeing many miracles here, compared to some kids I suppose.

Much better transitioning, happier, more affectionate, able to point,

better receptive language. I started my son's biomedical when he was

2.1 years and I was told by many that because we started so early

(only 2 months after his regression) that we'd be through this quite

soon. It's been a year now, and he is still moderately autistic

according to the experts, but of course they don't take poop or

sleeping into account either. However, with all that we've done

(diet, enzymes, heavy supplementing, chelation, viral protocol,

reducing yeast and bad bacteria, immune boosting, floortime, etc, etc)

I'm sure that there are some kids would be almost right as rain now.

I personally think that the lead and the viruses are a big part of the

slow progress we're having.

I'm not sure how this babble might pertain to your daughter, but they

were the thoughts that crossed my mind when I read your post.

Best wishes,

Anita

[Guest guest]

> I'm wondering how long you did the antivirals. For my son, we've now

> had a number of viral rashes, but we've only just started the

> protocol. Each time we up the protocol, there is a rash. I know that

> some kids have done well with a second complete viral protocol after

> the successful first one.

We did one 3 month round in spring of '05 and nothing much seemed to

happen. (She didn't get sick, but no big improvements were obvious.)

I started her back up in the fall of '05 to make sure she didn't catch

all the " back to school " bugs. That's when the rash happened. She's

still on 1 PRX (= 3 Virastop) + 1 Thorne OLE + 1 Pure Encapsulations

Elderberry + 1 Meavy Metal Therapy Colostrum 3x per day. She's been

as high as 2 PRX and 2 OLE 3x per day. She gets 500mg arginine +

166mg lysine per meal. She can't seem to tolerate any vitamin A these

days, but I did have her on 10,000 IU for close to a year (prior to

the 1st Virastop trial.)

> My son has also done about 26 rounds. 80 days. We do longer rounds

> now so actually only 20 rounds. I'm finding that we're more

> successful with the 6 day rounds. I've this theory that after the

> first few days the lead available has been pulled and then the

> chelators can access the other metals more easily. I'm not sure how

> valid my theory is, but I intend to ask at autism treatment if anyone

> has seen this kind of thing in action.

I read this in the archives. It's interesting. I've gone as long as

4.5 days myself, but only 3 days with my daughter. I keep thinking

we'll try longer ones, but I'm pretty pooped. I wonder what the

interrupted sleep is doing to MY endocrine system. I might need to

get a lot healthier before I could go longer.

> We're not seeing many miracles here, compared to some kids I suppose.

> Much better transitioning, happier, more affectionate, able to point,

> better receptive language.

My daughter had pretty much all that before we started, due to many

years of pretty intensive Son-rise-like approach, OT, speech, vision

therapy, etc. The main difference I've seen from all the biomed

stuff we've done is fewer colds and viruses, but that could be due to

homeschooling, too.

> I started my son's biomedical when he was 2.1 years

Mine wasn't even dx'ed until almost 4. Then I dithered about biomed a

long time because " mainstream " therapies seemed to be taking her so

far. It wasn't until I tried Andy Cutler's recommended supplements,

HNI enmymes, etc and they made me feel better that I was strong enough

to help my daughter.

W.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

Have you done anything for thyroid support for your child?

Thanks,

W.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/04/2006 08:06:05 GMT Daylight Time, bbrowne123@... writes:

Hi, this is interesting about the thyroid. How do you get the NHS to test for TH3, or rather "convince" them! My doc says junior's levels are fine, but we all have hypothyroidism in the family and i am very worried. Junior is pasty and lacking in energy like me which are my own symptoms.---

>>>We just did ours yesterday, T3, T4 and TSH sorry meant to put that. I think the Testosterone thng figures in Sam's slow progress with chelation. We got the levels drawn yesterday for the markers that the Geiers use - I plan to write them about Sam - hoping they might be interested in his case due to his extra maleness - 47XYY

Mandi on dial up god this is so slow

[Guest guest]

No, I haven't . I thought my son's thyroid was just fine.

Then I learned the proper pediatric ranges over at autism treatment.

And then I realized he was just .1 from being on the hypothryroid

side. I'm having him tested again in just a couple weeks and

keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have to help him in this

area. There are people who understand this well over at a-m

(, who is here too and Anne, among others).

Anita

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> Have you done anything for thyroid support for your child?

>

> Thanks,

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, this is interesting about the thyroid. How do you get the NHS to

test for TH3, or rather " convince " them! My doc says junior's levels

are fine, but we all have hypothyroidism in the family and i am very

worried.

Junior is pasty and lacking in energy like me which are my own

symptoms.

> >

> > Hi Anita,

> >

> > Have you done anything for thyroid support for your child?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > W.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/04/2006 00:05:13 GMT Daylight Time, weinert@... writes:

> We didn;t actually see any progress at all for 20 rounds althoughthat is > unusual. How old was Sam when you started?

>>>>He was 5 years and 3 months, though I had that positiev counting rules test from age of 3, spen two fruitless years looking afor a practtioenrs wasted all my dosh and ende up goign it alone with Andy and the A-M crew.

The progress we did see at 20 rounds was very very subtle, only now are we seeing gains after each round, still small but incremetal and never gone backwards - once he has rthe skill he keeps it - for this I am grateful

Mandi x