Re: Re: positive punishment

[Guest guest]

Thought I'd throw my two cents in... For example Kid picks up entire bowl of lite- Brite pegs (yes ...CB did this ) Throws them saying IM RICH ! Granny says Oh OH...we better pick up our lite brite pegs, before we step on them and get an Ouchy...CB ignores the Granny. Granny says to CB...CB pick up your pegs please. Starts to pick them up but begrudgingly.. Granny says Good Boy CB ! Your doing a good job ! When you finish we'll paint... Wait until ALL pegs are picked up.

CB's Granny

[Guest guest]

Ok, can I bounce this one off you

guys? I have a 4 year old autistic child who we have a VERY hard time

getting to do ANYTHING. We’ve tried positive (rewards, motivation –

go to the park, etc), negative (loss of privileges, punishment, spanking,

yelling, etc.). It seems he doesn’t care about anything enough to

respond to that as a reinforcement. I’ve done the below and I kid

you now, we played the waiting game for 4 hour and things STILL weren’t

picked up. It seems like in order to get him to do anything, I have to

yell at him until he cries – and it breaks my heart every single time.

Here is a scenario that happens all the

time in this house.

Me: “Liam, I need you to…”

Liam: “Mama, I want to…”

Me: “You may … after you …”

Liam: *sits

there and does nothing*

Me: “Liam, if you would like to…,

then I need you to…” “Do you understand what I said to you”

Liam: Yeah *nothing*

Me: “Can you tell me what it is you

need to do before you can …?”

Liam: “Yes, I need to…”

Me: “That’s great that you

understand – now you need to actually do it”

Liam: *nothing*

(and this is the point at which I decide it’s a battle of wills, but it

lasts hours”

He has and will waste several hours

sitting in one spot in order to avoid doing something I asked him to. I usually

just go about my business and on days where we do not have anything to do or

anywhere to be, but there are days where we are on a schedule and he still

refuses to do things we need done to get out the door. So, I end up

yelling, he ends up crying (but he did what I originally asked), we both feel

awful and we’re usually late.

Is this normal for an autistic

child? Is this simply 4 year old behavior? Is this behavior of a

strong-willed child who is reacting to a strong-willed mother?

What is the best way to handle this

behavior? We were considering making a ladder and matching privileges to

each run of that ladder and he can choose to move up the ladder by being cooperative

or he can choose to move down the ladder by not being cooperative?

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

Alese

From:

LornaBerry@... [mailto:LornaBerry@...]

Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004

4:00 PM

To:

autism

Subject: Re: Re:

positive punishment

Thought I'd throw my two cents in... For example Kid picks up entire

bowl of lite- Brite pegs (yes ...CB did this ) Throws them saying IM RICH

! Granny says Oh OH...we better pick up our lite brite pegs, before we

step on them and get an Ouchy...CB ignores the Granny. Granny says to CB...CB

pick up your pegs please. Starts to pick them up but begrudgingly.. Granny says

Good Boy CB ! Your doing a good job ! When you finish we'll paint... Wait

until ALL pegs are picked up.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I have tried that too. He

is SUCH a picky eater that he doesn’t really care if he eats or

not. He will skip dinner and not even bat an eye, he’ll then turn

his nose up at breakfast and balk at lunch. Nothing motivates him enough

to comply – even the basics of life. He will let his diaper get

soooo dirty that it falls off. He will sit in a poopy diaper for hours

and not even bat an eye. That’s why this is so frustrating –

he just doesn’t care.

Alese

From: minolfa

[mailto:rapaccini.carlo@...]

Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004

7:23 AM

To:

autism

Subject: Re: positive

punishment

I have a teen age daughter with pddnos, and I am

not very

experienced in behavior modification,

but I heard that

if children don't care about reinforcement,we

need to induce

a little deprivation:... for example, if

children are hungry,

food become very reinforcing....

carla

[Guest guest]

Does you county have a Board of MR/DD? Usually you can get free services through them based on the childs dx. It has nothing to do with income. I just signed my daughter up for it. It has programs that will help in the school ,and in the home. As well as a ramily resource program that allows up to 1,000 a year for medical needs or respite, diets etc..... Maybe check into the counties services for MR/DD I though ever state has one!

[Guest guest]

Alese,

Have you looked into getting him a sensory diet through an OT who specializes in Sensory Integration? It sounds to me that he has some well pronounced sensory needs. Also, if a child does not care/understand what rewards are really for or lack of then the ladder system will not work. It is a fabulous idea, but he needs to understand it first. Have you tried a visual schedule for him? Those seem to work very well, plus at the end he can pick what he wants to do. That gives him the final say (even though it will be manipulated by you). Choices are always good before getting into a battle. Social stories another great way to get someone to understand right and wrong. You can do it with words and pictures, but only go over it during up times. Battles are no fun and ultimately have no positive outcome.

DeeDee

RE: Re: positive punishment

Actually, I have tried that too. He is SUCH a picky eater that he doesn’t really care if he eats or not. He will skip dinner and not even bat an eye, he’ll then turn his nose up at breakfast and balk at lunch. Nothing motivates him enough to comply – even the basics of life. He will let his diaper get soooo dirty that it falls off. He will sit in a poopy diaper for hours and not even bat an eye. That’s why this is so frustrating – he just doesn’t care.

Alese

From: minolfa [mailto:rapaccini.carlo@...] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:23 AMautism Subject: Re: positive punishment

I have a teen age daughter with pddnos, and I am not very experienced in behavior modification, but I heard that if children don't care about reinforcement,we need to inducea little deprivation:... for example, if children are hungry,food become very reinforcing....carla

[Guest guest]

He does have sensory integration problems,

however, our insurance doesn’t pay for OT, we tried to get on medicaid,

but we don’t qualify based on income requirements and the parental access

fee is way out of our price range to get him access to state services, and we

cannot afford to do private therapy on our own. The OT through the school

district has no clue what she’s doing and was (I felt) doing more harm

than good. We’ve tried to OT at home, but we have a small house and

do not have room for a lot of equipment or tools. Every OT session ends

up with him on the floor in a pile of crying – Clearly I was not doing

something right, but I have no clue what it was. I have and read the Out

of Sync child and The Out of Sync Child has fun and I dug out his OT

evaluation. I chose activities that fit into the categories that he

showed problems in on the evaluation and the activities go all wrong. He

gets hyper, starts stimming and everything ends with him completely breaking

down. So we abandoned it.

We’ve tried visual schedules in the

past and he won’t use them. We encouraged him to use them and he

got mad and frustrated and destroyed more than one schedule. He even went

after his teacher from the school district when she tried to get him to use the

picture schedules.

I’ve heard of social stories and I’ve

heard people describe them, but that’s the only information I have on

them. Are they commercial books you can buy, are they things you make at

home? Is there a website with more detailed information on them and how

to implement them?

Thanks for the info!

Alese

From: Desirae

" Dee Dee " Spangler [mailto:dspangler@...]

Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004

11:19 AM

To:

autism

Subject: Re: Re:

positive punishment

Alese,

Have you looked into getting him a sensory diet through an

OT who specializes in Sensory Integration? It sounds to me that he has

some well pronounced sensory needs. Also, if a child does not

care/understand what rewards are really for or lack of then the ladder system

will not work. It is a fabulous idea, but he needs to understand it

first. Have you tried a visual schedule for him? Those seem to work

very well, plus at the end he can pick what he wants to do. That gives

him the final say (even though it will be manipulated by you).

Choices are always good before getting into a battle. Social stories

another great way to get someone to understand right and wrong. You can

do it with words and pictures, but only go over it during up times.

Battles are no fun and ultimately have no positive outcome.

DeeDee

[Guest guest]

We have a MR/DD division of our county

social services. Unfortunately though, to gain access to any grants they

may have, you MUST be on TEFRA (Medicaid) and the parental fee (since we don’t

meet the income requirements – just the disability requirements) is $900+

a month. That’s how things work on my state (MN).

Alese

From:

dannilynn700231@... [mailto:dannilynn700231@...]

Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004

1:31 PM

To:

autism

Subject: Re: Re:

positive punishment

Does you county have a Board of MR/DD? Usually you can get

free services through them based on the childs dx. It has nothing to do with

income. I just signed my daughter up for it. It has programs that will help in

the school ,and in the home. As well as a ramily resource program that allows

up to 1,000 a year for medical needs or respite, diets etc..... Maybe check

into the counties services for MR/DD I though ever state has one!

[Guest guest]

Hello again Alese,

If you search on the internet under social+stories+autism you will find a lot. Carole Gray is a popular author of social stories and they are easily made at home as well. If you wish to receive some personal help in writing some I am more than willing. You can email me at dspangler@.... We can talk in more detail about your sons behaviors and brain storm some solutions. I was a home therapist/supervisor/behaviorist/teacher (classroom of all children on the spectrum)/advocate/consultant/treasurer of San Diego Autism Society and now the Director of the Sensory learning Center out here. This has all been within the last 10 years. I have had years experience working with wonderful children and adult and would love to assist you as well. Also, I know out here in SD the regional center has a great kept secret where they will fund private therapies through some type of Medicare, nothing is on salary and they will work with you on it. It is worth looking into. I know they will not tell you about.

DeeDee

RE: Re: positive punishment

He does have sensory integration problems, however, our insurance doesn’t pay for OT, we tried to get on medicaid, but we don’t qualify based on income requirements and the parental access fee is way out of our price range to get him access to state services, and we cannot afford to do private therapy on our own. The OT through the school district has no clue what she’s doing and was (I felt) doing more harm than good. We’ve tried to OT at home, but we have a small house and do not have room for a lot of equipment or tools. Every OT session ends up with him on the floor in a pile of crying – Clearly I was not doing something right, but I have no clue what it was. I have and read the Out of Sync child and The Out of Sync Child has fun and I dug out his OT evaluation. I chose activities that fit into the categories that he showed problems in on the evaluation and the activities go all wrong. He gets hyper, starts stimming and everything ends with him completely breaking down. So we abandoned it.

We’ve tried visual schedules in the past and he won’t use them. We encouraged him to use them and he got mad and frustrated and destroyed more than one schedule. He even went after his teacher from the school district when she tried to get him to use the picture schedules.

I’ve heard of social stories and I’ve heard people describe them, but that’s the only information I have on them. Are they commercial books you can buy, are they things you make at home? Is there a website with more detailed information on them and how to implement them?

Thanks for the info!

Alese

From: Desirae "Dee Dee" Spangler [mailto:dspangler@...] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:19 AMautism Subject: Re: Re: positive punishment

Alese,

Have you looked into getting him a sensory diet through an OT who specializes in Sensory Integration? It sounds to me that he has some well pronounced sensory needs. Also, if a child does not care/understand what rewards are really for or lack of then the ladder system will not work. It is a fabulous idea, but he needs to understand it first. Have you tried a visual schedule for him? Those seem to work very well, plus at the end he can pick what he wants to do. That gives him the final say (even though it will be manipulated by you). Choices are always good before getting into a battle. Social stories another great way to get someone to understand right and wrong. You can do it with words and pictures, but only go over it during up times. Battles are no fun and ultimately have no positive outcome.

DeeDee