Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 It is about the same distance (2 1/2 to 3 hrs one way). Therefore, it really does not matter. I just need to see someone who has at least an iota of what they are doing. Thanks, Doc. From: Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 6:56:51 PMSubject: Re: Re: Brain Fog Experiences I can recommend someone in MS and it seems to me it would be worth the journey to help with your problems. or are you closer to New Orleans? Let me know. May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today. Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 6, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Chantal wrote: I feel for you. Keep trudging along until you get some answers. WE all know what we were once capable of and now WE see the drastic changes. It is a journey....My first CAT scan results in today: no adenoma so far. Hyperplasia or something else? (GRA, mom had similiar symptoms and my brother actually fits the picture of PA/GRA more than me so FH _II? I guess I need a PA diagnosis first as well... Doctor also checking the hypo-pit. axis to see if some sort of tumor (vision problems, aldosterone, ovarian stimulation? ) and yes, she ordered the 24 urine sodium for my ARR test.So your endo can hopefully get things on tract, otherwise, could a new GP not order the ARR instead (being your endo app is only in DEC?)Good luck Chantal> > > > > >> > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > > see what> > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that.> > > > > >> > > > > > Val> > > > > >> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism> > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps> > > > > > minimize GIGO.> > > > > >> > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out.> > > > > >> > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Abi is 20 and very skinny. ~50 Kg I would not change her drug dosage without discussing it with her own doctor first. He is planning to increase the dose but slowly, till he finds the right balance. We are thinking of DASHing now. I want to persuade my husband that we should all do it. He has had high BP now controlled with drugs and is overweight, and my other daughter is also overweight. Thanks for the advice, Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1@... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Clarence Grim wrote: How old is she? How big is she? She needs more spiro and to DASH now that testing is done. May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today. Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Jo Levitt wrote: My daughter was recently diagnosed with PA. She had been on 6 X 600mg tbs Slow-K per day before that and was experiencing brain fog and depression, etc. She has not been on a low salt diet at all since her primary presentation was weakness and she only had borderline high BP. When we found this group and read everyone's problems, we were glad she didn't start low salt because it seems to influence results and confuse everyone. When she got her positive ARR result back she was told by the nephro to start on 25mg Spiro and reduce her K to 4 tbs per day (and sent her for a CT which will be on Oct 18th). He said it would take a few days for the Spiro to start working so I asked if she could stay on the full 6 tbs K until the Spiro kicked in. He just said if she felt bad on a particular day she could take an extra tablet. But our experience is that it takes a few days to feel the effects of the K as well, so we ignored what he said. She stayed on 6 tabs for 5 days after starting Spiro and the brain fog and depression gradually lifted (and her blood pressure went down) till she said she felt mentally back to normal, she is also starting to be able to take longer walks again. Next day she went down to 5 tabs and is gradually going downhill again. The Spiro seems to have regulated her BP, and reduced the weakness but not the brain fog and depression. We have decided to reduce down to 4 tabs only a week before the blood tests that the nephro wants before he sees her again. I'm not preprared to put her through more of the mental problems than is absolutely necessary. Here's to clear thinking. Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1gmail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Chantal wrote: Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 See if u can get to see dr celso gomez snachez. Uof MI or Dr richRd re at oschner clinic tell their office thatDr Grim is referring g uTiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Oct 7, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Echols <daechols22@...> wrote: It is about the same distance (2 1/2 to 3 hrs one way). Therefore, it really does not matter. I just need to see someone who has at least an iota of what they are doing. Thanks, Doc. From: Clarence Grim <lowerbp2mac>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 6:56:51 PMSubject: Re: Re: Brain Fog Experiences I can recommend someone in MS and it seems to me it would be worth the journey to help with your problems. or are you closer to New Orleans? Let me know. May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today. Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 6, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Chantal wrote: I feel for you. Keep trudging along until you get some answers. WE all know what we were once capable of and now WE see the drastic changes. It is a journey....My first CAT scan results in today: no adenoma so far. Hyperplasia or something else? (GRA, mom had similiar symptoms and my brother actually fits the picture of PA/GRA more than me so FH _II? I guess I need a PA diagnosis first as well... Doctor also checking the hypo-pit. axis to see if some sort of tumor (vision problems, aldosterone, ovarian stimulation? ) and yes, she ordered the 24 urine sodium for my ARR test.So your endo can hopefully get things on tract, otherwise, could a new GP not order the ARR instead (being your endo app is only in DEC?)Good luck Chantal> > > > > >> > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > > see what> > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that.> > > > > >> > > > > > Val> > > > > >> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism> > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps> > > > > > minimize GIGO.> > > > > >> > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out.> > > > > >> > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I am Abi's father and am a family physician. I have had Hypertension since the age of 38. Well controlled with Bisoprolol 5mg and Ramipril 2.5mg. I also lost 20 kg which also helped (tho have put about 10 back on). My BMI is just over 30 now. My Potassium level has always been normal. My wife's father has also been treated for HTN from his 30's needing triple or quadruple therapy. Is the treatment of GRA significantly different from that for PA? Regards Yisrael levitt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1@... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Clarence Grim wrote:  Slowly to me would be to increase every 2 wls by 25 mg. Please give Ore hx on Family Htn and low K. Suspect GRA. READ my art andtake to ur MD. Tiped sad Send form mi iPhone ;-) May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Specializing in Difficult Hypertension On Oct 8, 2009, at 4:46 AM, Jo Levitt <jolevitt1gmail> wrote:  Abi is 20 and very skinny. ~50 Kg I would not change her drug dosage without discussing it with her own doctor first. He is planning to increase the dose but slowly, till he finds the right balance. We are thinking of DASHing now. I want to persuade my husband that we should all do it. He has had high BP now controlled with drugs and is overweight, and my other daughter is also overweight. Thanks for the advice, Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1gmail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Clarence Grim wrote:  How old is she?  How big is she?  She needs more spiro and to DASH now that testing is done. May your pressure be low! Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure".  Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today. Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009.  On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Jo Levitt wrote:  My daughter was recently diagnosed with PA. She had been on 6 X 600mg tbs Slow-K per day before that and was experiencing brain fog and depression, etc. She has not been on a low salt diet at all since her primary presentation was weakness and she only had borderline high BP. When we found this group and read everyone's problems, we were glad she didn't start low salt because it seems to influence results and confuse everyone. When she got her positive ARR result back she was told by the nephro to start on 25mg Spiro and reduce her K to 4 tbs per day (and sent her for a CT which will be on Oct 18th). He said it would take a few days for the Spiro to start working so I asked if she could stay on the full 6 tbs K until the Spiro kicked in. He just said if she felt bad on a particular day she could take an extra tablet. But our experience is that it takes a few days to feel the effects of the K as well, so we ignored what he said. She stayed on 6 tabs for 5 days after starting Spiro and the brain fog and depression gradually lifted (and her blood pressure went down) till she said she felt mentally back to normal, she is also starting to be able to take longer walks again. Next day she went down to 5 tabs and is gradually going downhill again. The Spiro seems to have regulated her BP, and reduced the weakness but not the brain fog and depression. We have decided to reduce down to 4 tabs only a week before the blood tests that the nephro wants before he sees her again. I'm not preprared to put her through more of the mental problems than is absolutely necessary. Here's to clear thinking. Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1gmail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Chantal wrote:  Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Many with PA get better during pregnancy as progesterone is a good MCRB. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Chantal wrote: I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the "fog" feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > see what > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > done. Helps > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 According to Dr. Young at Mayo, progesterone is a spiro agonist. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Many with PA get better during pregnancy as progesterone is a good MCRB. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Chantal wrote: I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the " fog " feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Spiro agonist, so it works as does spiro, a MCBlocker. By rights, yes the progesterone should have corrected the pressure but???? I know my pressure went really " haywire " during my pregnancies. I read two Conn's stories (Val, did you have blood pressure problems during your pregnancies, perhaps it was one of the 2 I did read your story) that indicated blood pressure or preeclampsia problems as well. My pregnancies were rough, lots of nausea/fatigue/flushing.... My pressure would go high (but not as high as now) but it would be all over the map. high at rest sometimes and low when stressed? but my home readings were stable enough that I didn't have to take the methyldopa that was prescribed.... I hate taking meds!! sometimes necessary, always a time and place but I much prefer to eat healthy and try to solve it if possible rather than band-aid it Toddler bedtime gotta go Chantal > I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet > to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps > hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the > " fog " feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I > had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the > fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) > and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was > rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) > > > > . > Web Bug from > http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=7299303/grpspId=1705132763/msgId= > 16443/stime=1255062268/nc1=3848643/nc2=5191952/nc3=5758222 > <http://www.mailscanner.info/images/1x1spacer.gif> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Yes, agonist means it works like/along with spiro. No HTN during pregnancy but did have a couple of preemies. I have five children. The last labor was 16 minutes. :-) Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal Spiro agonist, so it works as does spiro, a MCBlocker. By rights, yes the progesterone should have corrected the pressure but???? I know my pressure went really " haywire " during my pregnancies. I read two Conn's stories (Val, did you have blood pressure problems during your pregnancies, perhaps it was one of the 2 I did read your story) that indicated blood pressure or preeclampsia problems as well. My pregnancies were rough, lots of nausea/fatigue/flushing.... My pressure would go high (but not as high as now) but it would be all over the map. high at rest sometimes and low when stressed? but my home readings were stable enough that I didn't have to take the methyldopa that was prescribed.... I hate taking meds!! sometimes necessary, always a time and place but I much prefer to eat healthy and try to solve it if possible rather than band-aid it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well it is an aldo antagonist so would be a spiro agonist depending on how well it competes for the aldo site with aldo and spiro. I don't now this chemistry well. It is conceivable that if it binds better at the site than spiro it would be a spiro antagonism, ie it competes better for the aldo receptor than spiro. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 9, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Valarie wrote: According to Dr. Young at Mayo, progesterone is a spiro agonist. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Many with PA get better during pregnancy as progesterone is a good MCRB. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Chantal wrote: I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the "fog" feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Since going on spiro, progesterone is not working correctly for me. I use transdermal estrogen so progesterone is a must. I had to have a D & C in August. I had general anesthesia. For a week, I felt totally normal - no brittles, no sense of fright. I surmise that the general anesthesia somehow numbed my nervous system for a while. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Well it is an aldo antagonist so would be a spiro agonist depending on how well it competes for the aldo site with aldo and spiro. I don't now this chemistry well. It is conceivable that if it binds better at the site than spiro it would be a spiro antagonism, ie it competes better for the aldo receptor than spiro. On Oct 9, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Valarie wrote: According to Dr. Young at Mayo, progesterone is a spiro agonist. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Many with PA get better during pregnancy as progesterone is a good MCRB. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Chantal wrote: I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the " fog " feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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