Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Good work Sam. DASHing more might get rid of amlodipine (norvasc). It sure does make some folks ankles swell. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:23 PM, soseo wrote: My two cents... I have not had any symptoms resembling "fog" or anxiety or depression either before or after starting medications for Conn's. Sounds very frustrating. As a programmer, I doubt I would be able to do my job if I had those symptoms unless they occurred infrequently. For the record, I am on 75mg Inspra (eplerenone) per day, plus 10mg Norvasc (amlodipine). This combo seems to be working well for me. I am not following the DASH diet per se, but I did cut a lot of salt from my diet of the past. -Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Many with PA get better during pregnancy as progesterone is a MCRB. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Chantal wrote: I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the "fog" feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2) > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > see what > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > done. Helps > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 REcommend you do the 14 day DASH challenge in the book and see if you don't feel better. Worth a try. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 4, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Chantal wrote: I know, I know. I hear you. Some good (part of a day, until I feel myself getting weak and have to pop a potassium -did you ever see the likes?) days but most are rough.. I've come to realize that I'm going to have to try real hard with the energy/memory I have for the time being? Patience is at an all time low... Trying real hard. It is like something else is running our bodies and we're trying to overcome it. Aliens? No seriously, it is rough.. I told my hubby to remind me this week when I'm having a super rough day that I had a pretty good week-end and to remember I can get through to the next good spell.( feeling floppy, panic day "I need to go to the ER, my pressure is terrible, I feel like I'm dying day"-It is on and off, I can't pinpoint if it is the minimal sodium I take in that triggers it or some kind of dairy/wheat allergy that tips the balance, almost like it takes time for my body to get rid of the toxic levels of aldosterone/?, poor little kidneys working on overdrive) Anyhow, I understand what you are saying, for awhile I was like "am I bipolar-from day to day?-what a rollercoster ride!!! Chantal > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really > > struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > others have > > experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > From: > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost > > eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we > > recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, > > garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll > > with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Based on my sometimes over the high range of my GLUCOSE if this might be the cause of Brain Fog. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is > > trying to > > > > see what > > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > > done. Helps > > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till > > you > > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was " super-sensitive " to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, " no, only when we do the salt suppression " Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really > > > > struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > > > to see what > > > > > > > others have > > > > experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost > > > > eronism] On Behalf Of > > > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we > > > > recommend review by our group before polls are > > > > > done. Helps > > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, > > > > garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll > > > > with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Your endo doesn't understand that ARR cannot be properly interpreted without knowing urinary sodium. If you are, in fact, eating under 1000 mg/d sodium, your renin will be higher than it would be if you were on normal sodium. Then you will be told that your renin is too high for you to have PA. Been there, done that - at Mayo Clinic. If you can get your family doc to order 24-hour urine sodium at the same time you have serum aldo/renin, it would make the ARR more meaningful. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was " super-sensitive " to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, " no, only when we do the salt suppression " Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I wait till renin and aldo back but it makes sense to do the 24 hr urine aldo if on a high salt diet. I prefer to do a spiro trial rather than spend $ on urine aldo. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Monday, October 05, 2009, at 11:02AM, "Valarie " <val@...> wrote: > Your endo doesn't understand that ARR cannot be properly interpreted without knowing urinary sodium. If you are, in fact, eating under 1000 mg/d sodium, your renin will be higher than it would be if you were on normal sodium. Then you will be told that your renin is too high for you to have PA. Been there, done that - at Mayo Clinic. If you can get your family doc to order 24-hour urine sodium at the same time you have serum aldo/renin, it would make the ARR more meaningful. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was "super-sensitive" to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, "no, only when we do the salt suppression" Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Which K supplements r u on?Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Oct 5, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Chantal <chantalrobichaud29@...> wrote: DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was "super-sensitive" to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, "no, only when we do the salt suppression" Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Tell him to read Laragh's HYPERTENSION on how to interpret Aldo and renin. Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Oct 5, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Chantal <chantalrobichaud29@...> wrote: DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was "super-sensitive" to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, "no, only when we do the salt suppression" Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 You need K and Na homeostasis to get Conn's under best control. Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Oct 5, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Chantal <chantalrobichaud29@...> wrote: DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce my k-dur. Initially they thought I was "super-sensitive" to salt. As in, live with it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have an exaggerated response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope it won't affect my results! BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, "no, only when we do the salt suppression" Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be ordered instead/as well? Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, It helps to have all the support and guidance. Keep you posted Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Val, I'm asking my family dr. to order the 24 h urine Na but I just checked with the lab that does the test and they don't use a nomogram at all. Their results are based on normal person, normal sodium and posture. They expect the endo to " do the math " if sodium is not in this range. Nomograms anyone??? My endo. is inexperienced in Conn's and I " m sure if my Renin is normal again (possible in PA even with no dietary sodium?) he'll dismiss PA so I'll go super high sodium three days prior (cannot tolerate 2 weeks more of the symptoms, now that I've seen the improvement on K and DASH) and hopefully the test will be conclusive. It may take a month to get the results! Ahh, deep breaths, whoo! So, Val, did the Mayo clinic, of all clinics, not correlate the low Na to the renin and correct the renin accordingly? What was your renin on low sodium, I'm sure the units will differ so I'll attempt to do the conversion, or you can if you know the conversion factor- in canada renin is expressed in ng/L. Better yet, if you have the normal range at that lab and where your renin was in that range, I can guesstimate. Curious, what was your serum sodium when you went ultra-low sodium? Did it stay high or go low normal? Did you have to have a repeat on normal diet? For how long? Did you finally get PA diagnosis? Thanks a whole bunch Chantal > > Your endo doesn't understand that ARR cannot be properly interpreted without > knowing urinary sodium. If you are, in fact, eating under 1000 mg/d sodium, > your renin will be higher than it would be if you were on normal sodium. > Then you will be told that your renin is too high for you to have PA. Been > there, done that - at Mayo Clinic. > > If you can get your family doc to order 24-hour urine sodium at the same > time you have serum aldo/renin, it would make the ARR more meaningful. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal > > > DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. > My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) > but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now > that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of > potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce > my k-dur. > > Initially they thought I was " super-sensitive " to salt. As in, live with > it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay > for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm > DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a > little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was > waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we > maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have > an exaggerated > response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? > I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve > systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 > days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope > it won't affect my results! > > BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to > no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, " no, only > when we do the salt suppression " Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to > order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in > your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be > ordered instead/as well? > > Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, > It helps to have all the support and guidance. > Keep you posted > Chantal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Hello, this is from Mississippi. I have not posted in a while but now I am back. I too experience these "brain fogs" and can relate to the posts that are here. I used to have a semi-photographic memory and a decent vocab and could tackle any subject placed in front of me. Now, I can't seem to remember where I just came from or where I am going at times not to mention difficulty performing small problem-solving tasks. I am an attorney in Mississippi and have not worked since the end of March '09. I have had the most difficult time with my GP. Hedoes not have a clue as to what is going on and I have now dismissed him and am searching for a new GP. The bp specialist stated that he believed that I had primary aldosteronism and placed me on spiro along with other bp meds (this combo has helped lower my bp). I will post the actual test result numbers later. When I went back to the GP, he stated the he did know what was wrong and they placed me on anti-depressants--they did not work. I told them about this group and he ignored me. I also printed off the documents from the files area and some other research that I obtained on this subject. I told him that I needed and endo and asked for a referral (this was in April). He insited that I see a neurologist and a psychologist, which both said that they found nothing.Matter of fact, the psyche dr. stated that he believed I had "conversion disorder", that I am full of myself (in so many words) when I told him how I was accustomed to performing mentally, and that it was all in my head. I asked him "whether my bp reading of 245/148 and the fact that none of the doctors knew why in my head as well". I can't totally say that the doctor is incompetant. I believe that he is just lazy and indifferent. When I threatened to bring a lawsuit against him, he assured me that he would refer me to an endo (this was the end of Sept.). I have na appointment in December. I can't believe it. I am so frustrated and disgusted with arrogant doctors (No offense, Dr. Grim). By the way, my scans revealed that I did not have an adenoma. So maybe it is GRA. Dr. Grim, if you know someone who specializes in GRA or non-adenoma aldosteronism, please advise. I just felt I was qualified to say it since I am so accustomed to hearing the same thing concerning lawyers. Sorry to vent, everyone. I just want my life back. Good luck to all and stay encouraged. From: Chantal <chantalrobichaud29@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:58:53 PMSubject: Re: Brain Fog Experiences I'm in the process of being diagnosed... I have the symptoms and I have yet to start a MCB. I think it is all aldosterone/ blood pressure/perhaps hypokalemia related. The dizziness could be blood pressure but I think the "fog" feeling is related to some unsurpressed aldosterone effect. Again, I had blood pressure issues during my pregnancies (lots of symptoms) but the fog is worse now so I'm speculating the aldosterone has overcome (stage 3-4) and now I'm fully PA.(That is if I truly have PA (My last pregnancy was rough, if it was PA, I was probably a stage 2)> > > > >> > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > see what> > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that.> > > > >> > > > > Val> > > > >> > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism> > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > Clarence Grim> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > done. Helps> > > > > minimize GIGO.> > > > >> > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out.> > > > >> > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > get feedback.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> >> >> >>__________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 That is exactly how I feel, Chantal and . But I don't think it is related to the meds with me. It pretty much occurs all the time. I agree, pretty scary. From: Chantal <chantalrobichaud29@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 4:29:19 PMSubject: Re: Brain Fog Experiences See I'm not on a lot of BP meds but I still have lots of brain fog. I have to be super cautious driving because I experience the same things as you. I actually backed into something a month ago. It is a real eye-opener. Scary. Its one of those fun things. You're having a conversation and you completely forget what you want to say next...Or when you call directory assistance for a phone number and panic because you have to dial real fast or you'll completely forget the number. Better yet, doing math with your 11 year old and have to think "real" hard. Perhaps after the meds it has something to do with the blood pressure change (in your case) because of some kind of physiological compensation? ? > >> > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to see what> > others have experienced. Been there, done that.> > > > Val> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism> > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim> > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are done. Helps> > minimize GIGO. > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out.> > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you get feedback.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I feel for you. Keep trudging along until you get some answers. WE all know what we were once capable of and now WE see the drastic changes. It is a journey.... My first CAT scan results in today: no adenoma so far. Hyperplasia or something else? (GRA, mom had similiar symptoms and my brother actually fits the picture of PA/GRA more than me so FH _II? I guess I need a PA diagnosis first as well... Doctor also checking the hypo-pit. axis to see if some sort of tumor (vision problems, aldosterone, ovarian stimulation? ) and yes, she ordered the 24 urine sodium for my ARR test. So your endo can hopefully get things on tract, otherwise, could a new GP not order the ARR instead (being your endo app is only in DEC?) Good luck Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > > see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I can recommend someone in MS and it seems to me it would be worth the journey to help with your problems. or are you closer to New Orleans? Let me know. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 6, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Chantal wrote: I feel for you. Keep trudging along until you get some answers. WE all know what we were once capable of and now WE see the drastic changes. It is a journey.... My first CAT scan results in today: no adenoma so far. Hyperplasia or something else? (GRA, mom had similiar symptoms and my brother actually fits the picture of PA/GRA more than me so FH _II? I guess I need a PA diagnosis first as well... Doctor also checking the hypo-pit. axis to see if some sort of tumor (vision problems, aldosterone, ovarian stimulation? ) and yes, she ordered the 24 urine sodium for my ARR test. So your endo can hopefully get things on tract, otherwise, could a new GP not order the ARR instead (being your endo app is only in DEC?) Good luck Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to > > > see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 At Mayo Clinic, 8/2008 1) Urine Na = <7 (40 - 150) Below it says " Too low to quantitate " 2) Renin = 1.85 ng/mL (normal levels below) I'm not sure what " sodium replete " means 3) K = 3.8 (taken with tourniquet and clenched fist) I was on 20 mEq K + 3,000 mg in diet. 4) Urinary aldo was 19 (2 - 20) My serum sodium is always right in the middle of normal, about 139 - 140 The doctor at Mayo did not address the low sodium. He just kept chanting that there is no way I could have PA with a renin that high. According to Dr. Bravo at Cleveland Clinic, that is not true. Previous renins were 0.5 and 0.9. When asked, he couldn't explain why I had previous low renin scores and then the higher one. I was also on HCTZ which increases renin. Sodium is generally the key for the renin level. I don't know if your eating high salt for three days will be enough. BTW, if your endo doesn't know what he's doing, then it is imperative that you do know what's going on. Study, study, study. I have never heard of a nomogram for PA. There is one for hyperparathyroidism (been there, done that, too). My diagnosis was " inappropriate aldosterone secretion for the level of renin. " Dr. Grim says he calls that PA. Later in the narrative, he said the inappropriate aldosterone secretion was from hyperplasia. Everything he has written denies that. In his writing, he maintains that only AVS can determine the source of the inappropriate aldo. The doctor was WF Young. You can PubMed him. He was one author of the Endocrine Society's guidelines which were produced by a team of international endos. It is in our files. It does not address sodium ingestion as I recall. Later email from Mayo Clinic lab: Reference Values: Plasma Renin Activity Na-depleted, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 5.9 ng/mL/hour (mean) 2.9-10.8 ng/mL/hour (range) Na-replete, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 1.0 ng/mL/hour (mean) < or = 0.6-3.0 ng/mL/hour (range) Aldosterone Serum: currently we have only reference range based on upright a.m. collection from subjects on ad lib sodium intake. <=21 ng/dL (a.m. peripheral vein specimen) Aldosterone Urine Na-replete > or = 1 year: 2.0-20.0 ug/24 hours Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal Val, I'm asking my family dr. to order the 24 h urine Na but I just checked with the lab that does the test and they don't use a nomogram at all. Their results are based on normal person, normal sodium and posture. They expect the endo to " do the math " if sodium is not in this range. Nomograms anyone??? My endo. is inexperienced in Conn's and I " m sure if my Renin is normal again (possible in PA even with no dietary sodium?) he'll dismiss PA so I'll go super high sodium three days prior (cannot tolerate 2 weeks more of the symptoms, now that I've seen the improvement on K and DASH) and hopefully the test will be conclusive. It may take a month to get the results! Ahh, deep breaths, whoo! So, Val, did the Mayo clinic, of all clinics, not correlate the low Na to the renin and correct the renin accordingly? What was your renin on low sodium, I'm sure the units will differ so I'll attempt to do the conversion, or you can if you know the conversion factor- in canada renin is expressed in ng/L. Better yet, if you have the normal range at that lab and where your renin was in that range, I can guesstimate. Curious, what was your serum sodium when you went ultra-low sodium? Did it stay high or go low normal? Did you have to have a repeat on normal diet? For how long? Did you finally get PA diagnosis? Thanks a whole bunch Chantal > > Your endo doesn't understand that ARR cannot be properly interpreted without > knowing urinary sodium. If you are, in fact, eating under 1000 mg/d sodium, > your renin will be higher than it would be if you were on normal sodium. > Then you will be told that your renin is too high for you to have PA. Been > there, done that - at Mayo Clinic. > > If you can get your family doc to order 24-hour urine sodium at the same > time you have serum aldo/renin, it would make the ARR more meaningful. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal > > > DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. > My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) > but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now > that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of > potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce > my k-dur. > > Initially they thought I was " super-sensitive " to salt. As in, live with > it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay > for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm > DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a > little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was > waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we > maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have > an exaggerated > response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? > I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve > systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 > days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope > it won't affect my results! > > BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to > no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, " no, only > when we do the salt suppression " Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to > order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in > your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be > ordered instead/as well? > > Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, > It helps to have all the support and guidance. > Keep you posted > Chantal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 There does seen to be some research that has done on what Conn's does to the brain. Information I find is limited and hard to understand. any one know what brain OLC is? > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to see what > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > Val > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are done. Helps > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you get feedback. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 That is interesting. I would really like to know this as well. My memory used to be amazing. I could retain all kinds of stuff but now I struggle with remembering what I am doing from one niute to the next. It is having a rather severe effect on my work. Curious if others have this problem as well? From: Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: Brain Fog Experienceshyperaldosteronism Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:21 PM There does seen to be some research that has done on what Conn's does to the brain. Information I find is limited and hard to understand. any one know what brain OLC is? > > >> > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to see what> > > others have experienced. Been there, done that.> > > > > > Val> > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism> > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim> > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are done. Helps> > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out.> > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you get feedback.> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Excellent. Don't think I have seen all of this before.Would be good to ask them if a ENa of 7 was sodium deplete? If certainly is! Therefore your renin is low (below the values for sodium deplete state such as your own very low sodium diet.Thus your renin of 1.85 is below their lower range of 2.9-10.8. Plasma Renin Activity Na-depleted, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 5.9 ng/mL/hour (mean) 2.9-10.8 ng/mL/hour (range)You can also see why it is impossible to Dx low renin in a sodium replete state as the average is 1.0. Now much wiggle room as assay goes down to 0.1 usually.Sodium replete means on a "normal" sodium diet as reflected by 24 hr urine Na some would say of 200. Na-replete, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 1.0 ng/mL/hour (mean) < or = 0.6-3.0 ng/mL/hour (rangeThus you can only Dx low renin well on a low sodium diet or state (we use lasix in our standard protocol which is rarely done now) and high renin on a high sodium diet or state (we use at the end of a 4 hr saline infusion. At the end of the saline is also the best time to Dx high plasma aldo. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Valarie wrote: At Mayo Clinic, 8/20081) Urine Na = <7 (40 - 150) Below it says "Too low to quantitate"2) Renin = 1.85 ng/mL (normal levels below) I'm not sure what "sodium replete" means3) K = 3.8 (taken with tourniquet and clenched fist) I was on 20 mEq K + 3,000 mg in diet.4) Urinary aldo was 19 (2 - 20) My serum sodium is always right in the middle of normal, about 139 - 140 The doctor at Mayo did not address the low sodium. He just kept chanting that there is no way I could have PA with a renin that high. According to Dr. Bravo at Cleveland Clinic, that is not true. Previous renins were 0.5 and 0.9. When asked, he couldn't explain why I had previous low renin scores and then the higher one. I was also on HCTZ which increases renin. Sodium is generally the key for the renin level. I don't know if your eating high salt for three days will be enough. BTW, if your endo doesn't know what he's doing, then it is imperative that you do know what's going on. Study, study, study. I have never heard of a nomogram for PA. There is one for hyperparathyroidism (been there, done that, too). My diagnosis was "inappropriate aldosterone secretion for the level of renin." Dr. Grim says he calls that PA. Later in the narrative, he said the inappropriate aldosterone secretion was from hyperplasia. Everything he has written denies that. In his writing, he maintains that only AVS can determine the source of the inappropriate aldo. The doctor was WF Young. You can PubMed him. He was one author of the Endocrine Society's guidelines which were produced by a team of international endos. It is in our files. It does not address sodium ingestion as I recall. Later email from Mayo Clinic lab: Reference Values: Plasma Renin Activity Na-depleted, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 5.9 ng/mL/hour (mean) 2.9-10.8 ng/mL/hour (range) Na-replete, upright (peripheral vein specimen) > or =40 years: 1.0 ng/mL/hour (mean) < or = 0.6-3.0 ng/mL/hour (range) Aldosterone Serum: currently we have only reference range based on upright a.m. collection from subjects on ad lib sodium intake. <=21 ng/dL (a.m. peripheral vein specimen) Aldosterone Urine Na-replete > or = 1 year: 2.0-20.0 ug/24 hours Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal Val, I'm asking my family dr. to order the 24 h urine Na but I just checked with the lab that does the test and they don't use a nomogram at all. Their results are based on normal person, normal sodium and posture. They expect the endo to "do the math" if sodium is not in this range. Nomograms anyone??? My endo. is inexperienced in Conn's and I"m sure if my Renin is normal again (possible in PA even with no dietary sodium?) he'll dismiss PA so I'll go super high sodium three days prior (cannot tolerate 2 weeks more of the symptoms, now that I've seen the improvement on K and DASH) and hopefully the test will be conclusive. It may take a month to get the results! Ahh, deep breaths, whoo! So, Val, did the Mayo clinic, of all clinics, not correlate the low Na to the renin and correct the renin accordingly? What was your renin on low sodium, I'm sure the units will differ so I'll attempt to do the conversion, or you can if you know the conversion factor- in canada renin is expressed in ng/L. Better yet, if you have the normal range at that lab and where your renin was in that range, I can guesstimate. Curious, what was your serum sodium when you went ultra-low sodium? Did it stay high or go low normal? Did you have to have a repeat on normal diet? For how long? Did you finally get PA diagnosis? Thanks a whole bunch Chantal > > Your endo doesn't understand that ARR cannot be properly interpreted without > knowing urinary sodium. If you are, in fact, eating under 1000 mg/d sodium, > your renin will be higher than it would be if you were on normal sodium. > Then you will be told that your renin is too high for you to have PA. Been > there, done that - at Mayo Clinic. > > If you can get your family doc to order 24-hour urine sodium at the same > time you have serum aldo/renin, it would make the ARR more meaningful. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Chantal > > > DASHing and potassium supplementation have drastically improved my symptoms. > My potassium wasn't coming up with diet alone (juicing, eating tons of K) > but the supplements seemed to improve my muscular symptoms. In fact, now > that I'm on the supplements as well, I seem to have achieved some sort of > potassium homeostasis (muscles replenished again and I can sometimes reduce > my k-dur. > > Initially they thought I was "super-sensitive" to salt. As in, live with > it...I'd occasionally indulge with the rest of the family but I would pay > for it dearly (puffy eyes, foggy etc.) But I've noticed that when I'm > DASHing (ultra-low sodium, less than 1000mg), if I happen to dare take in a > little bit of sodium, I have a really low threshold. It's like my system was > waiting for this sodium and it holds on tight Is it possible when we > maintain a low salt that when we consume a bit more- that our systems have > an exaggerated > response- as in Na retention/ECFV expansion and aldosterone spikes? > I can't seem to maintain the 1400mg even, I need to go ultra low to improve > systems and it is significant enough that I'm only going on normal sodium 3 > days prior to my ARR test. I can't suffer needlessly for 2 weeks... I hope > it won't affect my results! > > BTW, I searched the internet for the nomogram to correlate ARR and sodium to > no avail. I asked my endo to do a 24h with this ARR but he said, "no, only > when we do the salt suppression" Anyhow, I'm going to ask my family dr. to > order it just in case my sodium is a little on the low side. (I'll bring in > your article and the endo guideline!) Should a 24 urine aldosterone be > ordered instead/as well? > > Thanks again, DR. Grim and everyone, > It helps to have all the support and guidance. > Keep you posted > Chantal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 What aldo does to the brain. Not much on Conn's that I am aware of. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 6, 2009, at 8:21 PM, Francis Bill wrote: There does seen to be some research that has done on what Conn's does to the brain. Information I find is limited and hard to understand. any one know what brain OLC is? > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying to see what > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > Val > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are done. Helps > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you get feedback. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Here is a link to one study http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/6/H2516 I don't under stand much of what it says. Maybe others can understand it. > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > to see what > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > done. Helps > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 My daughter was recently diagnosed with PA. She had been on 6 X 600mg tbs Slow-K per day before that and was experiencing brain fog and depression, etc. She has not been on a low salt diet at all since her primary presentation was weakness and she only had borderline high BP. When we found this group and read everyone's problems, we were glad she didn't start low salt because it seems to influence results and confuse everyone. When she got her positive ARR result back she was told by the nephro to start on 25mg Spiro and reduce her K to 4 tbs per day (and sent her for a CT which will be on Oct 18th). He said it would take a few days for the Spiro to start working so I asked if she could stay on the full 6 tbs K until the Spiro kicked in. He just said if she felt bad on a particular day she could take an extra tablet. But our experience is that it takes a few days to feel the effects of the K as well, so we ignored what he said. She stayed on 6 tabs for 5 days after starting Spiro and the brain fog and depression gradually lifted (and her blood pressure went down) till she said she felt mentally back to normal, she is also starting to be able to take longer walks again. Next day she went down to 5 tabs and is gradually going downhill again. The Spiro seems to have regulated her BP, and reduced the weakness but not the brain fog and depression. We have decided to reduce down to 4 tabs only a week before the blood tests that the nephro wants before he sees her again. I'm not preprared to put her through more of the mental problems than is absolutely necessary. Here's to clear thinking. Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1@... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Chantal wrote: Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@ groups. com] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hope you get on spiro as soon as testing done. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 7, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Chantal wrote: Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 How old is she? How big is she? She needs more spiro and to DASH now that testing is done. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Jo Levitt wrote: My daughter was recently diagnosed with PA. She had been on 6 X 600mg tbs Slow-K per day before that and was experiencing brain fog and depression, etc. She has not been on a low salt diet at all since her primary presentation was weakness and she only had borderline high BP. When we found this group and read everyone's problems, we were glad she didn't start low salt because it seems to influence results and confuse everyone. When she got her positive ARR result back she was told by the nephro to start on 25mg Spiro and reduce her K to 4 tbs per day (and sent her for a CT which will be on Oct 18th). He said it would take a few days for the Spiro to start working so I asked if she could stay on the full 6 tbs K until the Spiro kicked in. He just said if she felt bad on a particular day she could take an extra tablet. But our experience is that it takes a few days to feel the effects of the K as well, so we ignored what he said. She stayed on 6 tabs for 5 days after starting Spiro and the brain fog and depression gradually lifted (and her blood pressure went down) till she said she felt mentally back to normal, she is also starting to be able to take longer walks again. Next day she went down to 5 tabs and is gradually going downhill again. The Spiro seems to have regulated her BP, and reduced the weakness but not the brain fog and depression. We have decided to reduce down to 4 tabs only a week before the blood tests that the nephro wants before he sees her again. I'm not preprared to put her through more of the mental problems than is absolutely necessary. Here's to clear thinking. Jo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Levitt jolevitt1gmail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Chantal wrote: Quickly wrote a message and lost it. Quick look at the article Looks like these ouabain-like compounds (OLC-inhibit the Na-K ATPase)when aldosterone/Na conditions elevated in the brain in a lab setting could lead to increased brain pressure (intracranial pressure) Upon checking out ouabain-like compounds, it looks like they are finding some links with it and the blood pressure, increased heart contractability (could explain idiopathic arrythmias)and the sympathetic nervous system (increase tonicity- muscle contraction including the heart-cramps even though our potassium is normalized?) Anyhow, perhaps this increased intracranial pressure could be responsible for brain fog?? not sure... I'm sure patients that otherwise experience intracranial pressure, ie concussion, meningitis have headache, nausea, weakness. I'll have to read up more. Nap time for toddler and hopefully some zzzz/downtime for me. Dr app. this AM wiped me out, BP was 200/110, it had been good but I could feel the symptoms coming on today, I wasn't feeling the greatest. So verapamil started today If you are researching, I had seen an article on Depression as the sole presenting feature of patient diagnosed with PA. I would research which neurotransmitters that aldosterone influences in the brain. norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin- to see if this can be linked to the brain fog.... That is if you are curious, I'd love to but my toddler is getting into trouble, gotta go. See my pressure is high and the brain fog is there but I know now that I'm introducing sodium again for my ARR test, the brain fog will come on literally like a black cloud! I'm still convinced it is related to the elevated aldosterone. Take care Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > I think he is really struggling for a diagnosis and is trying > > > to see what > > > > > > others have experienced. Been there, done that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldost eronism] On Behalf Of > > > Clarence Grim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general we recommend review by our group before polls are > > > done. Helps > > > > > > minimize GIGO. > > > > > > > > > > > > AKA garbage in, garbage out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your poll with not yield much, but will wait till you > > > get feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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