RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

[Guest guest]

Dear Barbara and the others having trouble with strong willed children,

Stick to your guns and listen to . We have tried for years, as you

have, to set limits and make be responsible. He has been in treatment,

on medication, in the psyciatric ward, etc. It may be getting to the point

where he will need to be held somewhere against his will. He is still

staying in a hotel in Boston, refusing to go back to McLean because he

refuses to let them help him stick to the " one-hour in the bathroom " rule.

Instead he wants to come home and " do his own treatment " which I see as a

step backward.

It is so much harder trying to get an adult child to do what needs to be

done to get better. You have much more clout before they become legal

adults. So find what works and go with it, even if it means getting the

authorities involved. Hopefully it will save you grief and heartbreak later

on.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

- I am in the exact same spot. I too don't know what to do about Tim's

behaviour and he CANNOT be motivated by me or his father. If he does not at

any given time want to do something, nothing - not even the cops - can get

him to. I too have to endure the many lectures from the assorted experts

about how this is all due to his father and me not getting along (we're

divorced), how he's manipulating us, blah, blah, blah. That's funny, it

doesn't work that way with the other two children. I am so tired of the

whole damn thing and really don't know myself how much is " behavioural " and

how much is " medical. " And how does one handle a " behavioural " problem this

severe anyway, since charts and anger management classes and hospitalization

and every threat of every type of consequence, including legal and foster

care, and every type of privilege removed for weeks at a time HAVE NO EFFECT

on him the next time he wants to say NO!!!! Tim has upped the ante at age 12

to the point where I absolutely must have outside help to enforce any rules

or order around here, including forcing him to go to school and deal with

his social problems there (which I don't agree with anyway, but that's

another story).

Odd, but at this moment he is working quietly beside me on the pile of

schoolwork I picked up for him at the school office. He is interested in it

and chatting about it as he works. This is the boy everyone claims cannot in

any way handle homeschooling, yet in this emergency home tutoring situation

he seems to very happy. If only his father could give up his grudge match

with me and Tim and simply allow the homeschooling so I could at least SEE

whether that is a large chunk of the problem!!!!! So frustrating and sad.

--

>From: Conn <lmconn@...>

>Reply-

> < >

>Subject: Ian update

>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:18:48 -0600

>

>Ian is continuing to have problems in school. The social stuff seems to be

>calming down, but he's driving his teacher crazy. He just won't pay

>attention and keep up with his work. I am getting daily emails, written

>notes and often phone calls. I just don't know what to do to motivate him.

> I got the first of his tests results back from the educational

>diagnostician, and as expected, it showed him to be very, very bright and

>above grade level in all areas (way above in almost everything). His

>therapist believes that Ian's biggest problem is boredom in school. I know

>he's bored and have asked his teachers to try to give him more challenging

>work. They said they would, but, he has to show them he can do the easier

>work first. His incredible lack of organization makes this just about

>impossible. Even if he does the work, he doesn't find it to turn in, or he

>turns it in late, or it is incorrect because he rushed through it and made

>simple mistakes. The therapist is having us try a behavioral chart with

>money as the motivator. The teacher emails me daily with ratings for 5 or

>6 areas. He earns .20 for each positive point and loses .20 for each

>negative one.

>Today was the first day and he's $1.60 in the hole! I had hoped that it

>would help at least for a few days. I hate these stupid charts and told

>the therapist that all the ones we've tried in the past only made the

>problems worse. I agreed to try this one in desperation since the teacher

>would be giving the ratings, not me. This was supposed to avoid arguments

>and meltdowns over points gained or lost. BTW, Ian wasn't present when we

>discussed it, so he doesn't know of my hesitancy and misgivings. Well, Ian

>didn't argue about the points at least. He knew he'd be in trouble when he

>got home since his teacher made him write the note explaining today's

>problems. I told him no Nintendo and that he needed to go put away his

>laundry and then do his homework. After several hours of nagging I finally

>got him through his homework. After dinner and a shower, I told him to

>change his sheets. This is another big thing the therapist is working on -

>a behavioral program for bed wetting. Ian is supposed to change his own

>sheets when he's had an accident. Needless to say, he's very resistant to

>this also. I finally sent my dh in to check on him since I was starting to

>lose my temper. He found Ian in his room holding his breath. Ian told his

>Dad he was trying to commit suicide. Now, obviously, Ian knew that holding

>his breath wasn't going to kill him. He told me that maybe it would at

>least make him faint or lose consciousness and then he wouldn't have to

>listen to everybody yell at him. We really weren't yelling, just telling

>him to do something he didn't want to do. Well, this had the desired

>effect on Dad and he started ranting about what good were the meds and the

>therapy doing anyway if his son was such a mess as to contemplate suicide.

>Finally to calm everyone down, Dad and I made the bed, I put away the

>laundry, and Ian and Dad worked on the rest of the room. Now I'm going to

>have to listen to the therapist lecture me (again) on how we attribute all

>of Ian's behavior to his disorders, and how Ian takes advantage of it. I

>know he takes advantage, I just don't know how to make him do something he

>doesn't want to do. I have tried every positive and negative motivation I

>can think of over the last 10 years. Nothing ever seems to work for any

>period of time. He just seems to get more skillful at evasion.

>Sorry to vent for so long. I know these problems seem minor compared to

>what so many of you are going through with your kids. I am just so tired

>of it all.

> in TX

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

and ,

It seems that we are all talking about the same child!!! My son is doing exactly what your children are doing. Isn't it amazing that we all can have children that exhibit the same behaviors. Keaton won't do his school work. He threatens suicide. No consequences work with him and believe me, he's been consequenced. I have always been told I was strong willed but compared to this child, I am a pansy. At 11 years old, he is currently in a day treatment program. He'll probably be there until my insurance runs out, which will be soon. While in the program he pulled his usual of refusing to do the work, stubbornly, defiantly, angrily. They promptly took him to the nurses office and injected him with Benadryl to calm him down. I need to add that Keaton has a phobia of needles. Don't think he'll do that again, at least there. When he goes back to public school however, he knows that don't have injections in the nurses office.

We tried charts, money, removing games, video, tv, phones, not leaving your room for days on end, removing everything from the room except the bed and dresser and nothing has worked. Now we are working on a contract basis. I found one of the things he wants is one on one time with me. (That was a surprise.) If he behaves well, maintains control of this temper and does his chores he earns a day. After three days of good behavior, we have an hour of one on one time of anything that he wants to do (within reason, no sky diving). So far, he hasn't made it to the three days but he still thinks that he should have the time.

I don't know where the OCD starts and manipulative behavior ends and it is wearing me thin trying to discern the difference. How can you tell?

When I tell Keaton to do something his usual response is "Just a minute". That minute never comes. When I remind him, it makes him angry. When I remind him again he says that I'm yelling, which I'm not. My tone may not be as nice as it was the first time I asked but I'm not yelling. Occasionally, I'll ask him to do something and he'll do it right away and earn lots of praise and then other times, it's like I haven't even been in the room asking him to do anything.

And lets touch on organization or should I say, lack of it. Keaton's locker at school is a danger to his health. Opening his locker is taking your life in your own hands. Who knows how much and what is going to come out of that locker and onto you. As with you guys, according to school testing he is 5 grade levels ahead yet he won't do the work (some of the time). And nothing, including threats can make him do it. AAAAGGGGHHHHH. I am at a total loss.

I want to help him so much. I want him to have a normal life (or as close to it as possible) but I don't want to feed into these negative behaviors and allow his OCD to run his life and ours. Luckily, we do have a fabulous therapist, I feel very blessed to have her. She does help us and when Keaton sees her it is a definite "fix" for him and me. However, this weekend she will be out of town so he will miss his weekly appointment. I don't look forward to the week I'm going to have this coming week.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. This list is such an incredible help. Just knowing that I'm not alone is so comforting (not that I would want anyone's kids to have to go through what ours do!)

Barbara

Ian update>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:18:48 -0600>>Ian is continuing to have problems in school. The social stuff seems to be >calming down, but he's driving his teacher crazy. He just won't pay >attention and keep up with his work. I am getting daily emails, written >notes and often phone calls. I just don't know what to do to motivate him. > I got the first of his tests results back from the educational >diagnostician, and as expected, it showed him to be very, very bright and >above grade level in all areas (way above in almost everything). His >therapist believes that Ian's biggest problem is boredom in school. I know >he's bored and have asked his teachers to try to give him more challenging >work. They said they would, but, he has to show them he can do the easier >work first. His incredible lack of organization makes this just about >impossible. Even if he does the work, he doesn't find it to turn in, or he >turns it in late, or it is incorrect because he rushed through it and made >simple mistakes. The therapist is having us try a behavioral chart with >money as the motivator. The teacher emails me daily with ratings for 5 or >6 areas. He earns .20 for each positive point and loses .20 for each >negative one.>Today was the first day and he's $1.60 in the hole! I had hoped that it >would help at least for a few days. I hate these stupid charts and told >the therapist that all the ones we've tried in the past only made the >problems worse. I agreed to try this one in desperation since the teacher >would be giving the ratings, not me. This was supposed to avoid arguments >and meltdowns over points gained or lost. BTW, Ian wasn't present when we >discussed it, so he doesn't know of my hesitancy and misgivings. Well, Ian >didn't argue about the points at least. He knew he'd be in trouble when he >got home since his teacher made him write the note explaining today's >problems. I told him no Nintendo and that he needed to go put away his >laundry and then do his homework. After several hours of nagging I finally >got him through his homework. After dinner and a shower, I told him to >change his sheets. This is another big thing the therapist is working on - >a behavioral program for bed wetting. Ian is supposed to change his own >sheets when he's had an accident. Needless to say, he's very resistant to >this also. I finally sent my dh in to check on him since I was starting to >lose my temper. He found Ian in his room holding his breath. Ian told his >Dad he was trying to commit suicide. Now, obviously, Ian knew that holding >his breath wasn't going to kill him. He told me that maybe it would at >least make him faint or lose consciousness and then he wouldn't have to >listen to everybody yell at him. We really weren't yelling, just telling >him to do something he didn't want to do. Well, this had the desired >effect on Dad and he started ranting about what good were the meds and the >therapy doing anyway if his son was such a mess as to contemplate suicide. >Finally to calm everyone down, Dad and I made the bed, I put away the >laundry, and Ian and Dad worked on the rest of the room. Now I'm going to >have to listen to the therapist lecture me (again) on how we attribute all >of Ian's behavior to his disorders, and how Ian takes advantage of it. I >know he takes advantage, I just don't know how to make him do something he >doesn't want to do. I have tried every positive and negative motivation I >can think of over the last 10 years. Nothing ever seems to work for any >period of time. He just seems to get more skillful at evasion.>Sorry to vent for so long. I know these problems seem minor compared to >what so many of you are going through with your kids. I am just so tired >of it all.> in TX_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.comYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

I could repeat just about everything you've said about Keaton about my own

son! Isn't it interesting that he is trying to work towards time with you,

yet cannot achieve that either??? That's what I mean about no consequences

being successfully motivating. My Tim lives absolutely IN THE MOMENT and

cannot seem to visualize that there will be a price-tag attached to

everything he does, as there is really for all of us! For instance, since I

have to spend so much time lately in therapists' offices and school offices

and court offices, I have less time to work, which in our house translates

directly into less money since I am self-employed (money is one of Tim's

favorite things, btw - he is a compulsive spender, and I don't use the word

" compulsive " lightly here). Why can my child not understand that there are

effects following his actions?

--

>From: " Horton, Barbara " <bhorton@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:18:35 -0600

>

> and ,

>

>It seems that we are all talking about the same child!!! My son is doing

>exactly what your children are doing. Isn't it amazing that we all can

>have

>children that exhibit the same behaviors. Keaton won't do his school work.

>He threatens suicide. No consequences work with him and believe me, he's

>been consequenced. I have always been told I was strong willed but

>compared

>to this child, I am a pansy. At 11 years old, he is currently in a day

>treatment program. He'll probably be there until my insurance runs out,

>which will be soon. While in the program he pulled his usual of refusing

>to

>do the work, stubbornly, defiantly, angrily. They promptly took him to the

>nurses office and injected him with Benadryl to calm him down. I need to

>add that Keaton has a phobia of needles. Don't think he'll do that again,

>at least there. When he goes back to public school however, he knows that

>don't have injections in the nurses office.

>

>We tried charts, money, removing games, video, tv, phones, not leaving your

>room for days on end, removing everything from the room except the bed and

>dresser and nothing has worked. Now we are working on a contract basis. I

>found one of the things he wants is one on one time with me. (That was a

>surprise.) If he behaves well, maintains control of this temper and does

>his

>chores he earns a day. After three days of good behavior, we have an hour

>of one on one time of anything that he wants to do (within reason, no sky

>diving). So far, he hasn't made it to the three days but he still thinks

>that he should have the time.

>

>I don't know where the OCD starts and manipulative behavior ends and it is

>wearing me thin trying to discern the difference. How can you tell?

>

>When I tell Keaton to do something his usual response is " Just a minute " .

>That minute never comes. When I remind him, it makes him angry. When I

>remind him again he says that I'm yelling, which I'm not. My tone may not

>be as nice as it was the first time I asked but I'm not yelling.

>Occasionally, I'll ask him to do something and he'll do it right away and

>earn lots of praise and then other times, it's like I haven't even been in

>the room asking him to do anything.

>

>And lets touch on organization or should I say, lack of it. Keaton's

>locker

>at school is a danger to his health. Opening his locker is taking your

>life

>in your own hands. Who knows how much and what is going to come out of

>that

>locker and onto you. As with you guys, according to school testing he is 5

>grade levels ahead yet he won't do the work (some of the time). And

>nothing, including threats can make him do it. AAAAGGGGHHHHH. I am at a

>total loss.

>

>I want to help him so much. I want him to have a normal life (or as close

>to it as possible) but I don't want to feed into these negative behaviors

>and allow his OCD to run his life and ours. Luckily, we do have a fabulous

>therapist, I feel very blessed to have her. She does help us and when

>Keaton sees her it is a definite " fix " for him and me. However, this

>weekend she will be out of town so he will miss his weekly appointment. I

>don't look forward to the week I'm going to have this coming week.

>

>Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. This list is such an incredible help.

>Just knowing that I'm not alone is so comforting (not that I would want

>anyone's kids to have to go through what ours do!)

>

>Barbara

>

> Ian update

> >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:18:48 -0600

> >

> >Ian is continuing to have problems in school. The social stuff seems to

>be

>

> >calming down, but he's driving his teacher crazy. He just won't pay

> >attention and keep up with his work. I am getting daily emails, written

> >notes and often phone calls. I just don't know what to do to motivate

>him.

>

> > I got the first of his tests results back from the educational

> >diagnostician, and as expected, it showed him to be very, very bright and

> >above grade level in all areas (way above in almost everything). His

> >therapist believes that Ian's biggest problem is boredom in school. I

>know

>

> >he's bored and have asked his teachers to try to give him more

>challenging

> >work. They said they would, but, he has to show them he can do the

>easier

> >work first. His incredible lack of organization makes this just about

> >impossible. Even if he does the work, he doesn't find it to turn in, or

>he

>

> >turns it in late, or it is incorrect because he rushed through it and

>made

> >simple mistakes. The therapist is having us try a behavioral chart with

> >money as the motivator. The teacher emails me daily with ratings for 5

>or

> >6 areas. He earns .20 for each positive point and loses .20 for each

> >negative one.

> >Today was the first day and he's $1.60 in the hole! I had hoped that it

> >would help at least for a few days. I hate these stupid charts and told

> >the therapist that all the ones we've tried in the past only made the

> >problems worse. I agreed to try this one in desperation since the

>teacher

> >would be giving the ratings, not me. This was supposed to avoid

>arguments

> >and meltdowns over points gained or lost. BTW, Ian wasn't present when

>we

> >discussed it, so he doesn't know of my hesitancy and misgivings. Well,

>Ian

>

> >didn't argue about the points at least. He knew he'd be in trouble when

>he

>

> >got home since his teacher made him write the note explaining today's

> >problems. I told him no Nintendo and that he needed to go put away his

> >laundry and then do his homework. After several hours of nagging I

>finally

>

> >got him through his homework. After dinner and a shower, I told him to

> >change his sheets. This is another big thing the therapist is working on

>-

>

> >a behavioral program for bed wetting. Ian is supposed to change his own

> >sheets when he's had an accident. Needless to say, he's very resistant

>to

> >this also. I finally sent my dh in to check on him since I was starting

>to

>

> >lose my temper. He found Ian in his room holding his breath. Ian told

>his

>

> >Dad he was trying to commit suicide. Now, obviously, Ian knew that

>holding

>

> >his breath wasn't going to kill him. He told me that maybe it would at

> >least make him faint or lose consciousness and then he wouldn't have to

> >listen to everybody yell at him. We really weren't yelling, just telling

> >him to do something he didn't want to do. Well, this had the desired

> >effect on Dad and he started ranting about what good were the meds and

>the

> >therapy doing anyway if his son was such a mess as to contemplate

>suicide.

>

> >Finally to calm everyone down, Dad and I made the bed, I put away the

> >laundry, and Ian and Dad worked on the rest of the room. Now I'm going

>to

> >have to listen to the therapist lecture me (again) on how we attribute

>all

> >of Ian's behavior to his disorders, and how Ian takes advantage of it. I

> >know he takes advantage, I just don't know how to make him do something

>he

> >doesn't want to do. I have tried every positive and negative motivation

>I

> >can think of over the last 10 years. Nothing ever seems to work for any

> >period of time. He just seems to get more skillful at evasion.

> >Sorry to vent for so long. I know these problems seem minor compared to

> >what so many of you are going through with your kids. I am just so tired

> >of it all.

> > in TX

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

><http://explorer.msn.com>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Thanks for your encouragement.

Barbara

-----Original Message-----From: jackie48hr@... [mailto:jackie48hr@...]Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: /Ian update/similarities with TimDear Barbara and the others having trouble with strong willed children, Stick to your guns and listen to . We have tried for years, as you have, to set limits and make be responsible. He has been in treatment, on medication, in the psyciatric ward, etc. It may be getting to the point where he will need to be held somewhere against his will. He is still staying in a hotel in Boston, refusing to go back to McLean because he refuses to let them help him stick to the "one-hour in the bathroom" rule. Instead he wants to come home and "do his own treatment" which I see as a step backward. It is so much harder trying to get an adult child to do what needs to be done to get better. You have much more clout before they become legal adults. So find what works and go with it, even if it means getting the authorities involved. Hopefully it will save you grief and heartbreak later on. JackieYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

,

You nailed it...the cause and effect. Keaton just doesn't get it. He can explain it to me, I know he knows the concept, we discuss it, he understands it, he just won't DO IT. He is a very, very sensitive child, which he tries real hard to hide. He reminds of a book that my grandmother used to read to me when I was a little girl. It said something like "There was a little girl that had a curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good, she was very, very good and when she was bad, she was horrid." That's Keaton, male type and without the curl. When he is sweet, he is so very sweet and when his OCD is going, he is....well, not so sweet.

When Keaton does earn his money, he's really good about spending it. He will call around and shop for the best price. His biggest problem is, he'll give it to his sister!!! Right now, his motivation is for fish. We purchased the tank and have it set up...it just doesn't have any fish in it! As soon as earns the money using good behavior and following the rules, he can have fish. I'm hoping that looking at the empty tank will motivate him.

Barbara

-----Original Message-----From: Irland Shields [mailto:kishields@...]Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: RE: /Ian update/similarities with TimI could repeat just about everything you've said about Keaton about my own son! Isn't it interesting that he is trying to work towards time with you, yet cannot achieve that either??? That's what I mean about no consequences being successfully motivating. My Tim lives absolutely IN THE MOMENT and cannot seem to visualize that there will be a price-tag attached to everything he does, as there is really for all of us! For instance, since I have to spend so much time lately in therapists' offices and school offices and court offices, I have less time to work, which in our house translates directly into less money since I am self-employed (money is one of Tim's favorite things, btw - he is a compulsive spender, and I don't use the word "compulsive" lightly here). Why can my child not understand that there are effects following his actions?--

[Guest guest]

Good luck! We have a point system going, just like they use in the child

stabilization unit. But Tim loses 10 points a day when he doesn't go to

school. He is currently minus about 100 points, which would be very hard to

make up. It's the same thing that happens every time after a day or two. :-(

I really need a better way.

--

>From: " Horton, Barbara " <bhorton@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:29:51 -0600

>

>,

>

>You nailed it...the cause and effect. Keaton just doesn't get it. He can

>explain it to me, I know he knows the concept, we discuss it, he

>understands

>it, he just won't DO IT. He is a very, very sensitive child, which he

>tries

>real hard to hide. He reminds of a book that my grandmother used to read

>to

>me when I was a little girl. It said something like " There was a little

>girl that had a curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was

>good, she was very, very good and when she was bad, she was horrid. "

>That's

>Keaton, male type and without the curl. When he is sweet, he is so very

>sweet and when his OCD is going, he is....well, not so sweet.

>

>When Keaton does earn his money, he's really good about spending it. He

>will call around and shop for the best price. His biggest problem is,

>he'll

>give it to his sister!!! Right now, his motivation is for fish. We

>purchased the tank and have it set up...it just doesn't have any fish in

>it!

>As soon as earns the money using good behavior and following the rules, he

>can have fish. I'm hoping that looking at the empty tank will motivate

>him.

>

>Barbara

>

> RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>

>

>I could repeat just about everything you've said about Keaton about my own

>son! Isn't it interesting that he is trying to work towards time with you,

>yet cannot achieve that either??? That's what I mean about no consequences

>being successfully motivating. My Tim lives absolutely IN THE MOMENT and

>cannot seem to visualize that there will be a price-tag attached to

>everything he does, as there is really for all of us! For instance, since I

>have to spend so much time lately in therapists' offices and school offices

>and court offices, I have less time to work, which in our house translates

>directly into less money since I am self-employed (money is one of Tim's

>favorite things, btw - he is a compulsive spender, and I don't use the word

> " compulsive " lightly here). Why can my child not understand that there are

>effects following his actions?

>--

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I also thank you, Jackie.

--

>From: " Horton, Barbara " <bhorton@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:07:08 -0600

>

>Jackie,

>Thanks for your encouragement.

>

>Barbara

>

> Re: RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>

>

>Dear Barbara and the others having trouble with strong willed children,

> Stick to your guns and listen to . We have tried for years, as

>you

>

>have, to set limits and make be responsible. He has been in

>treatment,

>on medication, in the psyciatric ward, etc. It may be getting to the point

>where he will need to be held somewhere against his will. He is still

>staying in a hotel in Boston, refusing to go back to McLean because he

>refuses to let them help him stick to the " one-hour in the bathroom " rule.

>Instead he wants to come home and " do his own treatment " which I see as a

>step backward.

> It is so much harder trying to get an adult child to do what needs to

>be

>

>done to get better. You have much more clout before they become legal

>adults. So find what works and go with it, even if it means getting the

>authorities involved. Hopefully it will save you grief and heartbreak

>later

>

>on.

> Jackie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You and Tim are in my prayers. I know how hard this is. Keaton was discharged from residential treatment last Friday and went to school this morning. His anxiety was sooooo high last night and that he wouldn't go to sleep. Of course, it took a bomb to get him out of bed this morning.

In reading you note, it reminded me of something that Keaton's therapist told me (she's is so incredible). Keaton loves his video games and once he starts them he tunes everyone and everything out. Getting him to turn them off takes an act of congress. Kathleen, the therapist, told me that with OCD kids, even though the game is technically turned off, they are still playing it in their heads for quite a long time. Since learning this I have tried to limit his Nintendo, Gameboy, etc. I did find however, that he had snuck is Gameboy into his room and was playing it in bed at night. What's the deal....to these kids communicate with one another and trade these ideas?

Although these times are really tough for us, what is the alternative? Just take it one day at a time with a whole lot of very deep breaths (it seems to work for me).

Barbara

[Guest guest]

Thanks so very much, Barbara. Right now I'm hanging on the words of anyone

who can identify with this mess. Tim got out of the stabilization unit today

and is having a rough time.

--

>From: " Horton, Barbara " <bhorton@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: /Ian update/similarities with Tim

>Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:49:49 -0500

>

>,

>

>You and Tim are in my prayers. I know how hard this is. Keaton was

>discharged from residential treatment last Friday and went to school this

>morning. His anxiety was sooooo high last night and that he wouldn't go to

>sleep. Of course, it took a bomb to get him out of bed this morning.

>

>In reading you note, it reminded me of something that Keaton's therapist

>told me (she's is so incredible). Keaton loves his video games and once he

>starts them he tunes everyone and everything out. Getting him to turn them

>off takes an act of congress. Kathleen, the therapist, told me that with

>OCD kids, even though the game is technically turned off, they are still

>playing it in their heads for quite a long time. Since learning this I

>have

>tried to limit his Nintendo, Gameboy, etc. I did find however, that he had

>snuck is Gameboy into his room and was playing it in bed at night. What's

>the deal....to these kids communicate with one another and trade these

>ideas?

>

>Although these times are really tough for us, what is the alternative?

>Just

>take it one day at a time with a whole lot of very deep breaths (it seems

>to

>work for me).

>

>Barbara

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