like mysteries?

[Guest guest]

HI Gail:

I am sorry to hear that things are pretty rough right now. It sounds like

you have been establishing a consistent and supportive environment as much

as possible for . Rely on your intuition that more may be going on

here.

When school issues come up it is often more helpful to adjust expectations

so that mental well being or minimizing mental illness is the primary and

often only goal. Learning is not possible when NBDs are ruling our kids'

lives, it is tough to face this, but they do catch up when things are

better.

This is a tough time and I am glad you shared your frustration with the

list. I hope you have spoken to your own doc about your feelings as you

sound a little depressed to me. It is more likely that the teachers are

thinking what a challenge you are coping with admirably than they are

thinking you are a " bad mom " !

Building on strengths at times like this can offer a valuable way out of

this rut. Also recognizing that things go up and down, this may be a down,

but an up is on the way. I hope this does not sound to Pollyannaish to you

Gail.

Keep posting, good luck Gail, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 12:53 AM 02/22/2001 EST, you wrote:

> I am so utterly frustrated and upset tonight! Over the last few weeks,

>we have been " clamping down " on , in an attempt to both instill more

>responsibility and bring her grades up. Homework has been monitored,

>communication with teachers has been expanded and, as noted before, I have

>been available for private tutoring nightly. Yet the disorganization and

>carelessness continue! AUGH!

>

> forgets everything - books, papers, what she has for homework,

>where she puts things. It is driving her teachers and me loopy! I am at a

>loss what to do next.

>

> The p-dr has a crisis in his office and is non-responsive to my calls.

>The therapist has no clue what is going on (a change in therapists is in

>sight). The school is looking to us and the present therapy team for

insight

>and direction. Meantime, I have some real fears that may flunk for

the

>year and be asked to leave her lovely school (it's private and they can do

>that).

>

> And, as I admit this one with guilt and shame, I feel so utterly useless

>as her mother right now. I am bewildered and overwhelmed by all these

>questions and no answers. I worry that the school is shaking their head and

>thinking " Tsk, tsk - what a BAD mother she is. " This is so painful for me

to

>even discuss.

>

> Where do I go from here? I want to have p-dr take a look and see if she

>has some ADD like her brother. If so, how do the meds for ADD get along

with

>her luvox?

>

> I need to help this child regain her lost footing this year.

>

>Gail in N'Awlins

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Have you considered the possibility that Ian's OCD might be telling him

that his work is not good enough to pass in? once overheard a teacher

telling another teacher what a really great student was. He was not

flattered by hearing this, because he said now that I know what a good

student she considers me to be, every paper I do for her will have to be

supergood or I will feel that I am letting her down. And as his need for

papers to be constantly better increased, it became harder and harder for him

to do them until it got to the point where he could no longer even start a

paper.

That's one of the problems he was supposed to be working on in Boston.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Our son worked so hard on a paper one time....and the teacher handed

it back to him in red pen saying " you can do better than that " . You

see, he had waited until the last minuet..stayed up late (1 am), got

up early (4 am), and then handed the paper in. I DO believe he could

have done better..BUT he was caught up in OCD perfectionism. (the

teacher later felt really bad when she found out that he was

suffering so)

he exhibits the same crisis over and over. He bites off more than he

can chew....doesn't allow ample time...then gets depressed when it

doesn't turn out the way he thinks it should.

He also has the idea that his project has to be special or unique,

almost better then others. He can see it in his mind but when it

comes to doing the work gets stuck reading the material, spending

hours doing research and then can't write the paper. It is so

frustrating because he also feels that if anyone helps him it is not

his work. I had to stop helping him 4 years ago because he would get

upset and sometimes violent when I didn't understand what he was

trying to get across, or he felt that I was too STUPID to help him.

Instead of communicating he would just get frustrated and loose it.

Now he has a tutor working with him from the school as part of his

IEP, but he comes up with excuses for not meeting with the tutor.

One of them is that his work isn't done yet so he can't meet with the

tutor. :/ He purposly leaves books at home so he doesn't have the

materials he needs to use with the tutor. Some days he is just too

stressed out to meet with the tutor. This is very frustrating to

us...especially since he is almost 17 and I feel that he is to

assume responsibility for himself. The biggest trick of all is to

not get stressed out myself when he behaves this way. (wringing his

neck comes to mind!) But I have not figured out yet what do to....and

the school certainly doesn't know.....so in the meantime I try and

remain calm, and not take it out on my spouse or other child! AND to

keep working away at trying to find what will work! :0)

Vivian in wa. st.

> Dear ,

> Have you considered the possibility that Ian's OCD might be

telling him

> that his work is not good enough to pass in? once overheard

a teacher

> telling another teacher what a really great student was. He

was not

> flattered by hearing this, because he said now that I know what a

good

> student she considers me to be, every paper I do for her will have

to be

> supergood or I will feel that I am letting her down. And as his

need for

> papers to be constantly better increased, it became harder and

harder for him

> to do them until it got to the point where he could no longer even

start a

> paper.

> That's one of the problems he was supposed to be working on in

Boston.

> Jackie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/23/01 11:11:46 PM Central Standard Time,

jackie48hr@... writes:

> Have you considered the possibility that Ian's OCD might be telling him

> that his work is not good enough to pass in? once overheard a

teacher

>

> telling another teacher what a really great student was. He was not

> flattered by hearing this, because he said now that I know what a good

> student she considers me to be, every paper I do for her will have to be

> supergood or I will feel that I am letting her down. And as his need for

> papers to be constantly better increased, it became harder and harder for

> him

> to do them until it got to the point where he could no longer even start a

> paper.

> That's one of the problems he was supposed to be working on in Boston.

> Jackie

>

Jackie, do you mind if I include this with my letters to my son teachers? I

hadn't even considered this as a possibility with not turning in his

work.

Peggikaye

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivian,

Your description of your son sounds so much like . took it to

the point where the thought of surveying the literature on any subject he was

going to write on was so daunting he could not even start reading. He felt

that it was necessary to read everything ever written on any of his topics.

At one time he had over two hundred books checked out of the university

library and he didn't start bringing them back until about two hours before

the deadline - after which there would be a $5 fine per book!

This was one of the things was supposed to be working on at McLean. If

he ever manages to get himself back there we could share whatever they do to

help him. At the moment things don't look that good, however.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Dear Peggikaye,

By all means use this letter. You might look into the archives, too as I

remember writing some other letters on this topic several months ago. I also

used to think that sometimes was reluctant to pass in a paper because

then it was out of his control and would be judged by another - and the OCD

probably told him that it was not perfect enough for that judging!

How this OCD can twist their thinking! Right now, is in Boston

holed up in a motel saying that the experts at McLean weren't doing anything

for him that he couldn't do for himself, so he wants to come home and do his

own therapy!!! As far as I'm concerned he had the past two years to do that

and now he needs the direction and support of the experts to get better.

Hope this helps.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

At 04:18 PM 2/23/01 -0600, you wrote:

His teacher told me yesterday that there's no way he can go on to 5th

grade in his present situation (yet he continues to make straight A's).

- Having been there, I wouldn't let them hold a kid who was doing well

academically back for being disorganized. Another year of 4th grade won't

teach him organization, but it will probably bore him to death & they'll

still say he isn't ready for 5th grade. Or if he does shape up

organizationally -- he probably would have if he'd been passed onto the

next grade anyway!

Difficulties are what 504 plans are for! Schools so often act like there is

only ONE way to get an education. NOT! My 2 cents -- Vicki in Montana

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everybody who has replied about Ian and his disorganization. I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and empathy displayed on this list. I have saved all the messages and read parts of them to Ian. He still insists the pencil problem is a mystery ( I wish I can install a hidden camera on his desk). He did identify with the pressure to be better each time and the need to thoroughly and completely research his topics. He has finally finished the book report project for his regular class (a week late). It is not his best work by far but he's done and that's good enough at this point. A few bad grades will be good er & p for him! When we were discussing the posts, he finally opened up a little about his problems doing projects. It is definitely OCD bossing him around but he sees it as positive, not negative. He says "the voice" promises great rewards like superior knowledge or understanding if he'll do things a certain way. He says "the voice" is incredibly persuasive so he usually does what it wants, but the reward is never there. He says when he's worn out from trying to please it, he just can't make himself do any work. I asked what would happen if he didn't follow the voice and he said his anxiety would really spike but would eventually go away. I tried to explain that following the voice was only strengthening it, I think he understood. His therapy appt. got postponed until later in the week, I'm looking forward to discussing this with his therapist. So far they have been working on symmetry, hopefully they can address this soon. He said the symmetry issues are getting better but now he's focusing on straight lines. I mentioned how OCD will move from one thing to another, he understood immediately.

Thanks for the heads up on the "48 Hours". Ian and I watched it. I said something like "Can you imagine OCD being that bad?" to my husband and Ian replied "YES, I can". That was scary. I hate to think of him ever being in that much pain. I told him that was why it was so important to work on his er & p now. He agreed.

I hope to see some of you on the chat tonite.

in TX

[Guest guest]

Hi , this reminds me of something Kellen does. She feels sorry for OCD and excuses the fact he doesn't pay off on his promises because he means well. OCD just doesn't "understand" how upsetting he is being, she says, and would change if he understood this. I find this baffling, just another obsession I guess, but how can your son or my daughter have anything but negative feelings toward this voice who runs them from pillar to post and complicates their lives??

Kathy R in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: Conn

It is definitely OCD bossing him around but he sees it as positive, not negative. He says "the voice" promises great rewards like superior knowledge or understanding if he'll do things a certain way. He says "the voice" is incredibly persuasive so he usually does what it wants, but the reward is never there. He says when he's worn out from trying to please it, he just can't make himself do any work. I asked what would happen if he didn't follow the voice and he said his anxiety would really spike but would eventually go away. I tried to explain that following the voice was only strengthening it, I think he understood.

[Guest guest]

From -

About schoolwork not being good enough to pass in - my son

(12) recently did something like this. They check a lot of their

papers in class and then pass them in for the teacher to grade. A

couple papers had not been turned in. When I asked him about this,

he felt they were not good enough to turn in because he had missed

too many and/or hadn't finished!! I told him that any grade is still

better than a zero, which he'd get for not turning in anything. This

is sort of new; he's always made good grades tho they have been going

down this year in 6th grade (which is when the real OCD started).

> Dear ,

> Have you considered the possibility that Ian's OCD might be

telling him

> that his work is not good enough to pass in? once overheard

a teacher

> telling another teacher what a really great student was. He

was not

> flattered by hearing this, because he said now that I know what a

good

> student she considers me to be, every paper I do for her will have

to be

> supergood or I will feel that I am letting her down. And as his

need for

> papers to be constantly better increased, it became harder and

harder for him

> to do them until it got to the point where he could no longer even

start a

> paper.

> That's one of the problems he was supposed to be working on in

Boston.

> Jackie