RE: SuperSlow training

[Guest guest]

I've only seen one published study in a peer-reviewed journal, which is in

the current Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. That study was

done with sedentary women, 19-45, and the 14 subjects were put in either a

traditional-speed lifting group or a Superslow group. Both groups improved

significantly in strength over 10 weeks of training, although (surprise,

surprise) the traditional-speed group improved more.

Neither group improved in body composition.

The strength gains for Superslow were puny--11% in the bench press, 12% in

the lat pulldown, etc.

Another study I've seen was presented as a poster at the NSCA conference in

2000. It was a smaller study, conducted at Ball State, and it showed no

gains in strength from Superslow, although I can't recall any other details.

Personally, as a journalist, it irks me that Superslow has gotten as much

publicity as it has, with no evidence that it works. People who believe in

Superslow seem to regard it as a faith system as much as a training system.

I met one guy who told me about the fantastic gains in muscle mass he'd

achieved with Superslow, after years of being unable to improve using

traditional training methods ... and this guy looked like he had less muscle

mass than my 3-year-old daughter. (I should note here that my 3-year-old is

built like a rock. But still ...)

Hutchins is colorful and gives great material to reporters, and I know

that's pretty seductive--you always want to give the benefit of the doubt to

the guy who gives you the most time and energy. And he has Wayne Westcott's

unpublished study to give his method the sheen of scientific approval.

But I sure wish someone in the popular press would present the

counterarguments to Superslow--that it's incredibly difficult and tedious,

that it's a completely unnatural speed at which to do anything, and that you

almost certainly compromise gains in strength and muscle mass by lifting so

slowly, since you have to use such a low percentage of your 1RM.

Lou Schuler

town, PA

SuperSlow training

To the list:

I fear I may have ignored a previous discussion on Ken Hutchins'

SuperSlow

method of training, but a long article about it just appeared in a

physical

therapy tabloid (Advance for PTs and PTAs) and now I'm intrigued. What

is

the current thinking of the group regarding this method and its claims?

Thanks in advance.

Barrett L. Dorko, P.T.

Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio

<http://barrettdorko.com>

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[Guest guest]

SuperSlow does not work well in practice. I spoke with numerous trainees and

trainers, and only result is strength increase in super slow machine

training, with little carry-over to free weights, normal speed and most

important, without muscular hypertrophy. Without significant muscular

hypertrophy, one cannot expect good strength improvement in any activity -

expecially in a trained person.

Experience of Jim Merli, previously 'normal HIT' trainee seems to be typical:

< The next step I thought was Super Slow. Sounded like the next step up in

intensity and progression for me. I bought Hutchins book and read about it

.. At first I couldn't get past my ego of seeing the smaller weights and

this resulted in not giving SS an honest try. A year later or so I was

ready to really give it a try. I remember using two day a week training of

about 8 sets. The routine would consist of a compound movement follwed by

an isolation for the same body part; one set each. The cadence was 10/5 and

rep guide numbers were six for legs and four for the rest of the body which

amounts to roughly a minute and a half for the legs and a minute for the

upper body.

These workouts were brutal; I felt every bit as wasted as on my previous

HIT training except my muscles would pump like never before! I knew I was

going to make fantastic gains with this Super Slow stuff.

Funny thing though ... in the next six months I seemed to be losing size

and weight. I figured the looser clothes and lower number on the scale was

bodyfat loss. I didn't want my 'ego' getting the best of me as it did with

using smaller weights when I first started SS so I continued. It all hit me

one day when a few of us (non workout friends) were standing around and one

of the guys was talking about starting to workout. One of the others

replied that he would never stick with it and pointing to me said:

" If he (ME!) quit working out, you'll never stick with it. He was really

into it before and was (WAS!) really built before ( BEFORE ! ) .

WHAT ??!! Quit working out ? WHO quit working out ?? What the # & *$ ... I

was training harder than ever! >

Reference:

<http://weightrainer.virtualave.net/readers/Merli.html>

----------

Experienced SS trainer Fred Hanh wrote recently very discouraging statement

that:

" Once the typical person adds all the muscle he or she can onto their frame

-- ~1-10 pounds depending on genetics and gender ... "

Reference:

<http://pub83.ezboard.com/fseriousstrengthfrm1.showMessage?topicID=44.topic>

---------------

Low volume & low frequency training even in extreme versions, like Heavy

Duty and especially interesting for comparison Static Contraction Training,

produce much better hypertrophy results - at least for some people for some

time, while I never heard, neither once for such superslow experience.

Difference between SS and SCT is not in volume or frequency, but only in

produced force: it is perhaps twice bigger in 15 seconds of static

contraction than in one slow 15-second rep. It is quite strange that

muscles can produce bigger force if there is no movement or if movement is

fast than in between, but it seems to be very important.

Denial of lack of results with SuperSlow described in one of the recent

issues of testosterone.net is visible, and it is typical for 'spiritual

movements' which Super Slow certainly is. Rogge wrote:

" Sociologists have observed that, failure of prediction results in quite

the opposite of the expected effect. Contrary to what one would expect it

binds members together. Usually failure is blamed on a misunderstanding, or

a mistake on the part of the members. To counteract ridicule they tend to

stick together more than ever. "

Ref. <http://www.xs4all.nl/~wichm/psymove.html>

----------------------

Kazimir Majorinc,

Zagreb, Croatia

http://public.srce.hr/~kmajor

M e r c y o f C h a o s

[Guest guest]

From: Barrett Dorko ....

<<To the list:

I fear I may have ignored a previous discussion on Ken Hutchins' SuperSlow

method of training, but a long article about it just appeared in a physical

therapy tabloid (Advance for PTs and PTAs) and now I'm intrigued. What is

the current thinking of the group regarding this method and its claims?>>

Hi Barrett. I saw that article too, but have not read it yet. Here's my

take on SS:

If you want to develop muscular endurance at really slow speeds, SS is

great! Now all we need to do is find an activity where muscular endurance

at extremely low contractile velocities and low force output is important

and Super Slow has some usefulness. Maybe Tai-Chi!!??.

Looking at the force velocity curve it is obvious that Super Slow training

takes place well below the 'maximum effort' line, therefore its potential to

cause significant improvements in strength (power output) is poor. I am not

sure, but I believe that a Super Slow set is performed with about 60% (I'm

guessing) of 1RM and the resistance is moved WAY below the maximal velocity

possible for that load. About the only benefit that I can see from Super

Slow are training adaptations due to metabolic stress (lactic acid system),

and perhaps some positive mental 'training' due to the psychological or

'volitional' challenges.

If you're going to train at the loads suggested by the Super Slow crowd, why

not do as many reps as possible while performing each rep as fast as

possible? With this method some large Type II motor units would be

activated in the beginning of the set, and the metabolic and mental stress

would be about the same. Of course, proponents of Super Slow would say that

performing any exercise rapidly will cause injury. I sure would like to pin

one of these Super Slow gurus down one day and ask them why it is dangerous

to perform a weight training exercise rapidly when so many safely executed

movements in sport (and life!) involve high speed and of course, high force.

Burkhardt

Strength and Conditioning Coach

UC Irvine

[Guest guest]

What you are referring to is Dr Al Sears' P.A.C.E. program. New, cutting-edge

science is showing that traditional cardio exercise actually DECREASES your lung

capacity and heart strength as your body adapts to it, and lung capacity is

proving to be the #1 predictor of aging and death.

This totally flies in the face of traditional belief about exercise, but the

evidence is irrefutable. It builds muscle at the same time. Check it out here:

-->http://tinyurl.com/254xxc7

>

> Does anyone have any information about " superslow " weight lifting, such as

where training might be found locally?

>

>

http://www.westonaprice.org/mentalemotional-health/1572-moods-and-the-immune-sys\

tem.html

>

> " Superslow weight training provides an answer to the question, how do you get

your muscles fitter? "

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, and I neglected to say, it involves doing just one rep of each exercise, but

at maximum resistance, and really slow. And you don't need to go to a gym, you

can do it right at home. You can get just the book on how to do it, or he also

has videos that really simplify the whole program so you make sure you're doing

it right. And all the science behind it.

-->http://tinyurl.com/254xxc7

> >

> > Does anyone have any information about " superslow " weight lifting, such as

where training might be found locally?

> >

> >

http://www.westonaprice.org/mentalemotional-health/1572-moods-and-the-immune-sys\

tem.html

> >

> > " Superslow weight training provides an answer to the question, how do you

get your muscles fitter? "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much.

And what do you know, a couple weeks ago I placed in my Amazon.com shopping

cart, a book called Pace: The 12-Minute Fitness Revolution - Al Sears M.D., but

hadn't ordered it yet. Somebody had recommended his program(s) to me.