Active Recovery Routine?

[Guest guest]

Hello all, I haven't posted in quite some time but have been lurking

and soaking up information. I am hoping someone can help me set up

an active recovery plan. And before you say it, I already own Dr.

Siff's and Dr. Yessis' " Sports Restoration and Massage " book but I am

looking for some help putting it all together.

My goal over the next 8 weeks is hypertrophy. I just got done with a

month-long strength phase (using the Westside Barbell method). I

have not been using any active recovery techniques at all (I know,

for shame for shame) but that is about to change. My hypertrophy

training will consist of 2-a-days for two weeks (5 training days per

week using high volume and medium intensity -- 8-15 reps, fairly slow

eccentric followed by explosive concentric using compensatory

acceleration, no sets taken to failure) followed by two weeks of 1-a-

days for two weeks (2 training days per week, full body training

using very low volume -- 10 sets total -- and medium-heavy intesity

(6-8 reps) and using the highly intesive training method where each

set is lifted with a slow eccentric (usually 4 seconds down) but

still lifted explosively and where each set is taken to concentric

failure -- defined as the break down of form) and then repeating this

skeletal plan for another 4 weeks.

My hope is cause a huge " alarm " during the 2-weeks of 2-a-days so that I get a

great supercomensation

effect during the subsequent two weeks of reduced volume training.

In the hopes of making my program a success, I think it only

appropriate that I incorporate active recovery into the program.

Here are some of the means of active recovery I have been considering (and have

easy access to):

(1) Self-massage (both hand and with a vibrating massager);

(2) deep tissue/trigger point massage;

(3) dry heat sauna;

(4) wet sauna;

(5) whirlpool jacuzzi bath;

(6) contrast showers;

(7) salt baths;

(8) coniferous pine baths;

(9) light interval training (75% max speed sprints a la Charlie Francis' and

Tudor Bompa's recomendations);

(10) light recovery workouts (using the empirical 60% method a la Zatsiorsky);

and

(11) use of heating rubs (i.e., Tiger Balm-type products).

I don't own a sled, so no sled pulling for me.

I am also considering various means of recovery nutrition including:

(1) a pre-workout MRP;

(2) post-workout MRP;

(3) pre- and post-workout consumption of .17 g/ kg (LBM) of BCAA's (I got this

one from

an article written by Poliquin);

(4) use of adaptogens (right now I am considering siberian ginseng and mumie --

Got this idea from

Dr. Hatfield's books and Dr. Siff's posts some months ago on this forum); and

(5) consumption of extra vitamin E.

So here is my question: how do I put it all together? The whole

point of the 2-a-days is to purposely " overtrain " (I know, I know --

there is a debate as whether there is such a thing -- I am not trying

to re-open Pandora's box) so that my body supercompensates during the

subsequent period of reduced training.

Based on this, do I increase my use of recovery methods during the period of

overtraining and then

back off during the period of undertraining? Do I decrease the means

and methods of active recovery during the periods of overtraining and

increase their use during the period of undertraining? Can I keep

the levels constant during the 8-week period? Do I use lower levels

of active recovery during the first 4-week cycle and greater levels

during the second or vice-versa? I would love to hear some thoughts

on the subject. I already know that I should not use any method more

than twice per week, but how long should I use a method before I

switch to something else (i.e., use salt baths for the first 4-weeks

and substitute another general recovery method like contrast showers

for the following 4 weeks)?

Also, when do you suggest using specific versus general restorative techniques?

When active recovery is at

its maximum usage I had planned on using a general restorative

technique in the a.m., a specific technique in between the afternoon

and evening workouts and both a specific and general technique in the

evening before going to bed after the evening workout -- does this

make sense or is there a better way to set up the timing of the means

and methods?

Anybody got a recovery " routine " .

I know people ask for help with their workout " routines " all the time but I

cannot

remember ever seeing someone ask for a recovery routine -- maybe I

will start a new trend

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sincerely,

A. Levy

Los Angeles, California

[Guest guest]

I don't understand why you follow westside methods for a month and the change to

a diffrent " phase " for hypertrophy. The theory behing westside is to contain the

diffrent components into one microcyle. That is the point of doing 2 max effort

and 2 dynamic days. These days cover the strenght and power phases while

accessory exercises on certain days will cover hypertrophy.

If you follow westside methods for powerlifting, then this plan of your seems to

defeat the purpose of how the training is set up in the first place. The purpose

is to combine all phases (hypertrophy, strength, power, active recovery) into

one microcycle.

Damon

Springfield, IL

[Guest guest]

Damon, I understand the theory behind conjugative periodization used

in the Westside Barbell method. However, every time I use the WSB

method I stop gaining muscle mass but gain a good deal of strength.

Since I am interested in both hypertrophy and strength (and speed and

power for that matter), my personal experience indicates that the WSB

method is not optimal for hypertrophy. I obtain better results from

spending 1-2 months focusing on one or two traits and then switching

to the training of another one or two traits. Your experience may be

different from mine.

However, do you have any recommendations for me regarding active recovery?

Sincerely,

A. Levy

Los Angeles, California

[Guest guest]

Okay, I didn't get the overwhelming response I was hoping for

regarding my request for an active recovery routine. So, instead, I

will post my planned recovery routine for the next two weeks of 2-a-

day training in the hopes that someone will critique it.

RECOVERY

A.M. MID-AFTERNOON P.M.

1. N/A Self-Massage (hand) Jacuzzi

2. Jacuzzi Self-Massage (vibro) Salt bath

3. Dry Sauna Self-Massage (vibro) Liniment rub

4. Intervals/ –N/A– Prof. Massage

Full stretching

5. N/A Self-Massage (hand) Jacuzzi

6. Dry Sauna Self-Massage (hand) Salt bath

7. Intervals/ –N/A– Prof. Massage

Full-stretching

Day one begins on a Friday. I did this on purpose so that two of the

training days fall on a weekend. There is no training on days four

and seven. The self-massage is a massage of the bodyparts used

during the afternoon workout (which workout will take place at around

1 p.m.). The vibro massages are only on days 2 and 3 (weekends)

because I really don't want to bring a vibrating massager to work. I

am also considering adding self-massage to the evening recovery

(using 15 minute of light self-massage before the general method) on

all training days (1-3, 5-6). My training is concentrated on

hypertrophy. Two weeks of 2-a-days five days per week (at approx. 1

p.m. and again at 8 p.m.) followed by two weeks of 1-a-days twice per

week using the HIT method.

I have tried to use each general recovery method no more than twice per week.

The structure of the program is

general recovery in the a.m. and p.m. and specific recovery in

between the two workouts (and perhaps after the second workout as well, as

discussed above).

Since my goal during the next four weeks is to overtrain for two weeks then

undertrain for two weeks in the

hopes of creating a supercompensation effect, I am not sure if it

makes more sense to use less active recovery methods during the two

weeks of overtraining and use more methods of recovery during the

subsequent two week period of undertraining.

Feedback or suggestions anyone? If not, I will simply attempt to

learn by the trial-and-error approach and report my anecdotal

observations here. Since I will repeat the 4-week cycle, (unless I

get some feedback) during the first 4-week cycle I will keep the use

recovery comenserate with the volume of work (i.e., extensive use of

recovery methods during the first two weeks and less use during the

second two weeks).

During the second 4-week cycle I will do just the opposite (i.e., less use of

recovery techniques during the high

volume weeks and extensive use of recovery techniques during

the " supercompensation " low-volume weeks). I will attempt to divine

which works better for hypertrophy -- that is, unless one of you can

help me short-cut the learning process... [hint, hint]...

Sincerely,

A. Levy

Los Angeles, California

[Guest guest]

Levy details his restoration plans:

<snip>

> Day one begins on a Friday. I did this on purpose so that two of the

> training days fall on a weekend. There is no training on days four

> and seven. The self-massage is a massage of the bodyparts used

> during the afternoon workout (which workout will take place at around

> 1 p.m.). The vibro massages are only on days 2 and 3 (weekends)

> because I really don't want to bring a vibrating massager to work. I

> am also considering adding self-massage to the evening recovery

> (using 15 minute of light self-massage before the general method) on

> all training days (1-3, 5-6). My training is concentrated on

> hypertrophy. Two weeks of 2-a-days five days per week (at approx. 1

> p.m. and again at 8 p.m.) followed by two weeks of 1-a-days twice per

> week using the HIT method.

I wrote a review that's in the latest Strength and Conditioning Journal

looking at massage for strength and power athletes. Of all the papers I

found, there was no evidence to support the use of massage for

decreasing DOMS or increasing recovery from training. The one exception

was one that looked at warm underwater water-jet massage, which didn't

improve performance, but prevented a decrease in performance compared to

the control group. Whether the effects were from the thermal effect,

the massage action, or both is unknown. I also came across some

research that showed unloaded cycling or other dynamic actions

immediately following training allowed for faster recovery from DOMS and

possibly fatigue.

Based on this, wet-heat, and if possible, in conjunction with water-jet

massage in addition to brief unloaded movements immediately following

training would have the most promise.

As far as two-a-day training, I think the benefit is that it allows for

one to maintain a high training intensity for all lifts performed (as

opposed to doing a long " marathon " session, where training intensity for

later lifts declines), and not that it allows a drastic increase in

training volume.

I trained twice and even 3x a day in June, 6d/week and used none of the

mentioned restoration methods (note: training is for competitive

weightlifting). I wasn't training for hypertrophy though. There is a

noticeable increase in general fatigue throughout the day, but if you

can " push through the pain, " you'll find that fatigue doesn't transfer

over to training. Throughout June, I trained 2-3x/day for the entire

month. The first week of July was a low volume/low intensity training

week, and then I hit training PRs during the second week (which was at

the NSCA conference). No fancy supplements were used except

protein/carb drinks immediately after training.

Loren Chiu

Graduate Assistant

Exercise Biochemsitry Laboratory

Human Performance Laboratories

The University of Memphis

[Guest guest]

I think you would notice more hypertrophy with Westside training if you

increased the number of extra workouts and/or increased the emphasis on

supplementary training. I think you could stay within the Westside framework

and still train for hypertrophy by not going for an absolute max attempt on max

effort day and perhaps decreasing the number of sets on dynamic day in order to

improve recovery due to the increase in extra workouts and supplementary

exercises that you may add for additional hypertrophy.

Day

Niles,OH USA

****************************

Message: 17

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 20:56:17 -0000

From: " Levy " <mlevy@...>

Subject: Re: Active Recovery Routine?

Damon, I understand the theory behind conjugative periodization used

in the Westside Barbell method. However, every time I use the WSB

method I stop gaining muscle mass but gain a good deal of strength.

Since I am interested in both hypertrophy and strength (and speed and

power for that matter), my personal experience indicates that the WSB

method is not optimal for hypertrophy. I obtain better results from

spending 1-2 months focusing on one or two traits and then switching

to the training of another one or two traits. Your experience may be

different from mine.

However, do you have any recommendations for me regarding active recovery?

Sincerely,

A. Levy

Los Angeles, California

[Guest guest]

Thank you for you response Mr. Chiu. It is one of very few responses

I have received. I will certainly pick up a copy of your article.

By the way, have you read the studies on massage (and other means of

restoration) presented in Dr. Siff's and Dr. Yessis' " Sports

Restoration and Massage " book? Also, do you have any practical

advice for how to set up a restoration schedule? Do you subscribe to

the belief that a particular means of restoration should not be used

more than twice per week? What is your view of other means of

recovery such as salt baths and contrast showers?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sincerely,

A. Levy

Los Angeles, California

[Guest guest]

Levy wrote:

>

> Thank you for you response Mr. Chiu. It is one of very few responses

> I have received. I will certainly pick up a copy of your article.

> By the way, have you read the studies on massage (and other means of

> restoration) presented in Dr. Siff's and Dr. Yessis' " Sports

> Restoration and Massage " book? Also, do you have any practical

> advice for how to set up a restoration schedule? Do you subscribe to

> the belief that a particular means of restoration should not be used

> more than twice per week? What is your view of other means of

> recovery such as salt baths and contrast showers?

I have not read that book, however, I have read Dr. Yessis' other book

(Secrets of Soviet Sports Fitness and Training) which includes a chapter

on restoration, as well as the translations from Russian in the Soviet

Sports Review.

Unfortunately, the problem with these translations are 1. many are

review articles w/ no references provided and 2. the actual research

papers have much of the methods, statistics, etc. omitted. I know that

this was done so to keep the articles as readable as possible, minimise

publication costs, references were not available in English anyways,

etc., however, it is impossible to fully evaluate the research without

reading the full paper. Thus while there is an indication that these

methods may work, it would be irresponsible to take them for face value.

I am not against using massage and other restoration methods, however.

The (English language) studies assessing these modalities have only used

an acute treatment immediately after the initial training session, then

monitoring the response over the next 1-2 weeks. Longer term studies

involving multiple training sessions and treatments may yield better

more information.

The one study that has used multiple training sessions and treatments is

the warm-underwater waterjet study I mentioned. This study showed small

performance decreases and negative physiological changes in the control

group (training), and no change in the in the treatment group (training

and treatment). Thus the UWWJM prevented negative adaptations.

As far as setting up a restoration schedule, as far as these means go,

I'm not confident enough in their benefit, nor the magnitude of effect

that I would set one out. I think it is wholly more important to

realise

that an individuals perception of their physiological state is a poor

indication of that state. A certain amount of soreness or " pain " will

exist in hard training individuals. Most people will think their

overtraining, but good athletes will push past it, and find that they

can still perform at a high level. For example, most training guides

suggest no less than 48-72 hours between training the same bodypart,

which is what most bodybuilders and general fitness people follow.

However, weightlifters perform exercises using their legs 4-6 days a

week, sometimes multiple times daily. Using my training as an example,

I performed back squats once and front squats twice last week for 4x4,

3x1, and 4x4 w/85% 1RM respectively on Mon, Wed, Fri. Everyday, I

performed snatches or power snatches, and clean and jerks,

and clean pulls were alternated throughout the week. Most bodybuilders

and general fitness people would never even consider a person could

train this much, chalking it up to drug use and the like (I don't use

any WADA banned substances BTW). This is akin to how elite endurance

athletes will run/bike/swim considerably more than the average person.

It's not that the average person can't do it, it's that they won't.

This training is for weightlifting, where hypertrophy is not the goal.

However, from September 2000 to September 2001, I had a net increase in

bodymass of 14kg (30.8lbs; from 110kg to 124kg) with no change in % fat

(measured via DEXA).

So by all means, experiment with these methods, especially since they

may cost little or nothing, but more importantly, have a training plan

and follow it through, regardless of how you feel.

Loren Chiu

Graduate Assistant

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory

Human Performance Laboratories

The University of Memphis