Re: Hoarding - so interesting!

[Guest guest]

Kathy, this post was very helpful to me. I enjoyed your personal hoarding

stories and realized I am something of a hoarder myself - have trouble

throwing out leftover anything, lol, parting with old clothes, etc. My

parents had to retire to a LARGE house and the reason is to HOLD THEIR STUFF

(this is my mother's problem). My son has finally been able to relinquish

his hold on old clothes that are too small for him by tearfully handing them

over, lip quivering, for the Goodwill. (But he's much happier if he can give

them to his sister, so they're still in the house!)

You know, this does remind me of autism in a sense. I once had a doctor give

a sumup of autism, saying " an autistic treats people like things and things

like people. " Of course it's more complex than that, but I think sometimes

Tim is projecting confused feelings of affection and so on onto these items,

even though they are garbage. He often seems to feel sadness and sympathy

for old clothes, old toys, even used candy wrappers. There is some kind of

projection that goes on, and I feel that too with the old things. Strange

but true!

--

> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:25:21 -1000

> From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>Subject: Re: Kathy /diagnosis help - thanks!

>

>Hi:

>

>Denying that one has OCD is a very common symptom of OCD. The French call

>OCD the " doubting disease " for that reason. It can take about 12 weeks at

>a high dosage of Prozac (e.g. even 80 mg) to notice improvement of OCD

>symptoms.

>

>Throwing out a hoarders stuff is unfortunately counterproductive if the end

>goal is to help them diminish their symptoms. It may not be

>counterproductive if you don't want to live in a slum anymore - VBG.

>However you will probably be living in an orderly place with a very angry

>hoarder. ly I am a shadow syndrome hoarder myself and have been

>working very hard on this. I have had a little relapse but am feeling

>stronger and will recommit myself to ongoing dehoarding. My mom is a

>hoarder. This weekend I helped her move her stuff - she is on vacation -

>it was about three cars full (3 mid size cars) in plastic black garbage

>bags. One I picked up wrong and out cascaded many, many rolled up plastic

>bags. My friend was helping or I think I would have just cried. Here I am

>trying to correct my minor hoarding and she has a mega problem. Of course

>I just picked up the bags and put them back in the garbage bag and gave it

>to her without a word. When she is ready I am available to help. In the

>meantime I tell her about my de-hoarding. It is tough.

>

>The Internet has been a very, very important resource for our family in

>learning how to cope with OCD. I suggest you invite your mental health

>professionals to join this list so they can learn more about OCD and how it

>affects families. Plenty of other more open minded docs are doing this

>already. It is a great way for all of us interested in improving the lives

>of mentally ill people to improve our knowledge and ability to be helpful.

>I have even suggested it to the docs in my family!!

>

>Going out of town sounds like an excellent choice. Good luck, take care,

>aloha, Kathy (h)

>kathyh@...

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I've thought this too, that we all feel a nostalgia or some sort of

emotional attachment to some meaningful things (yearbooks, maybe old letters

and so on) and OCD hoarding distorts that and extends it to objects most of

us attach no meaning to. This seems to be what drives my daughter's

hoarding rather than the idea that she may need these things some day.

Of course some of her hoarding I think relates more to her disorganization I

mentioned in another post, in that she spends no effort discriminating

between what is needed and what isn't. Her room, drawers, backpack etc. are

crammed with things she simply hasn't gotten around to discarding. When

forced to clean out her backpack for example, she throws away most things

with no apparent problem.

Kathy R in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " Irland Shields " <kishields@...>

> You know, this does remind me of autism in a sense. I once had a doctor

give

> a sumup of autism, saying " an autistic treats people like things and

things

> like people. " Of course it's more complex than that, but I think sometimes

> Tim is projecting confused feelings of affection and so on onto these

items,

> even though they are garbage. He often seems to feel sadness and sympathy

> for old clothes, old toys, even used candy wrappers. There is some kind of

> projection that goes on, and I feel that too with the old things. Strange

> but true!

[Guest guest]

:

I think that being overly attached to possessions and giving them excessive

emotional meaning so we cannot discard them is a common part of hoarding.

Of course hoarding as a symptom is seen in a number of mental disorders of

which OCD is only one.

What I have found working on my hoarding is that I have problems, mostly

with information gathering, and have a lot of paper about my various

interests, etc. I churn around in my papers and need to stop collecting,

stop churning, and stop keeping. I am very good with leftovers, old

medications, clothes, now magazines and newsletters, making too many

donations, etc. I remind myself of my successes and move on. Feeling

upset about the negative behaviors does not help. Feeling optimistic that

I can change things and seeing that I have done so really helps me. Good

luck, tackling hoarding when it is still at the shadow syndrome level is

obviously much easier than when it is quite severe.

BTW, we were going to build on an additional bedroom for my study (all

those papers). Then Steve got sick and we spent the money on " renovating "

his brain rather than the house. I did not even realize these renovation

plans were due to my hoarding until I heard my tell another husband

at an OCF conference about my hoarding and house plans which got waylaid by

Steve's OCD. I was very upset that he was talking about this to a perfect

stranger, but then I told myself at least I am doing well enough to attend

the conference as the other man's wife could not bear to attend!

The other day I threw out all my wedding cards. Can you believe I was

married almost 19 years ago! I did keep a valentine from my childhood

sweetheart though - thanks for giving me this tip that keeping just

one was ok. Sometimes I think I have to sort through a box of papers

before chucking them, other times I just chuck the whole box. It feels

scary but amazingly nothing bad has happened :-))

I used to think people who threw out their mementoes were hard hearted, now

I know they are just not hoarders. This is what comes from being raised by

a pack rat. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 07:11 AM 02/22/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Kathy, this post was very helpful to me. I enjoyed your personal hoarding

>stories and realized I am something of a hoarder myself - have trouble

>throwing out leftover anything, lol, parting with old clothes, etc. My

>parents had to retire to a LARGE house and the reason is to HOLD THEIR STUFF

>(this is my mother's problem). My son has finally been able to relinquish

>his hold on old clothes that are too small for him by tearfully handing them

>over, lip quivering, for the Goodwill. (But he's much happier if he can give

>them to his sister, so they're still in the house!)

>

>You know, this does remind me of autism in a sense. I once had a doctor give

>a sumup of autism, saying " an autistic treats people like things and things

>like people. " Of course it's more complex than that, but I think sometimes

>Tim is projecting confused feelings of affection and so on onto these items,

>even though they are garbage. He often seems to feel sadness and sympathy

>for old clothes, old toys, even used candy wrappers. There is some kind of

>projection that goes on, and I feel that too with the old things. Strange

>but true!

>--

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy H.,

I was interested to read about your experiences with hoarding and all the

therapeutic and practical work you've done. I, too, was raised by a bona

fide pack rat, my beloved mom.

When she died, my dad and I were left to sift through her many possessions,

and that process did something to me. I was saddened, rather than cheered,

to see the greeting cards she'd held on to, which had yellowed with age.

Seeing these and other items inspired me to take a much more hard hearted

;o) approach to my own household.

My mom was raised during the depression and so kept many things out of the

fear that had been instilled in her as a child. However, in today's world,

I've found that it is usually more practical to give, sell or throw away

unused or seldom used items than to keep them. And, it feels great! Thanks

for sharing your story.

Take care,

Lesli

Re: Hoarding - so interesting!

> :

>

> I think that being overly attached to possessions and giving them

excessive

> emotional meaning so we cannot discard them is a common part of hoarding.

> Of course hoarding as a symptom is seen in a number of mental disorders of

> which OCD is only one.

>

> What I have found working on my hoarding is that I have problems, mostly

> with information gathering, and have a lot of paper about my various

> interests, etc. I churn around in my papers and need to stop collecting,

> stop churning, and stop keeping. I am very good with leftovers, old

> medications, clothes, now magazines and newsletters, making too many

> donations, etc. I remind myself of my successes and move on. Feeling

> upset about the negative behaviors does not help. Feeling optimistic that

> I can change things and seeing that I have done so really helps me. Good

> luck, tackling hoarding when it is still at the shadow syndrome level is

> obviously much easier than when it is quite severe.

>

> BTW, we were going to build on an additional bedroom for my study (all

> those papers). Then Steve got sick and we spent the money on " renovating "

> his brain rather than the house. I did not even realize these renovation

> plans were due to my hoarding until I heard my tell another husband

> at an OCF conference about my hoarding and house plans which got waylaid

by

> Steve's OCD. I was very upset that he was talking about this to a perfect

> stranger, but then I told myself at least I am doing well enough to attend

> the conference as the other man's wife could not bear to attend!

>

> The other day I threw out all my wedding cards. Can you believe I was

> married almost 19 years ago! I did keep a valentine from my childhood

> sweetheart though - thanks for giving me this tip that keeping just

> one was ok. Sometimes I think I have to sort through a box of papers

> before chucking them, other times I just chuck the whole box. It feels

> scary but amazingly nothing bad has happened :-))

>

> I used to think people who threw out their mementoes were hard hearted,

now

> I know they are just not hoarders. This is what comes from being raised

by

> a pack rat. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

> kathyh@...

>

> At 07:11 AM 02/22/2001 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> >Kathy, this post was very helpful to me. I enjoyed your personal hoarding

> >stories and realized I am something of a hoarder myself - have trouble

> >throwing out leftover anything, lol, parting with old clothes, etc. My

> >parents had to retire to a LARGE house and the reason is to HOLD THEIR

STUFF

> >(this is my mother's problem). My son has finally been able to relinquish

> >his hold on old clothes that are too small for him by tearfully handing

them

> >over, lip quivering, for the Goodwill. (But he's much happier if he can

give

> >them to his sister, so they're still in the house!)

> >

> >You know, this does remind me of autism in a sense. I once had a doctor

give

> >a sumup of autism, saying " an autistic treats people like things and

things

> >like people. " Of course it's more complex than that, but I think

sometimes

> >Tim is projecting confused feelings of affection and so on onto these

items,

> >even though they are garbage. He often seems to feel sadness and sympathy

> >for old clothes, old toys, even used candy wrappers. There is some kind

of

> >projection that goes on, and I feel that too with the old things. Strange

> >but true!

> >--

>

>

>

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Lesli:

Thanks for the encouragement and motivation to stop churning and continue

tossing things out. I will put in a good two hours this weekend. THen I

will report into the chat about my progress! I can listen to my learning

Japanese CDs while doing this. ALoha, Kathy

At 09:00 PM 02/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>Hi Kathy H.,

>

>I was interested to read about your experiences with hoarding and all the

>therapeutic and practical work you've done. I, too, was raised by a bona

>fide pack rat, my beloved mom.

>

>When she died, my dad and I were left to sift through her many possessions,

>and that process did something to me. I was saddened, rather than cheered,

>to see the greeting cards she'd held on to, which had yellowed with age.

>Seeing these and other items inspired me to take a much more hard hearted

>;o) approach to my own household.

>

>My mom was raised during the depression and so kept many things out of the

>fear that had been instilled in her as a child. However, in today's world,

>I've found that it is usually more practical to give, sell or throw away

>unused or seldom used items than to keep them. And, it feels great! Thanks

>for sharing your story.

>

>Take care,

>Lesli