Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 Hello Butch, Thanks you for the very informative post. You hit the nail on the head for me as it was for an aches and pains ointment that I was wanting the birch. I was also looking at wintergreen so you really helped me today. The two people I have in mind have constant arthritis pain and would probably use the ointment at a high frequency. Lessening their pain in the long run does not mean much if I also kill them in the process. :-) I am ditching thought of birch and wintergreen and moving on. Thanks again. Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 You might try the MSM cream with menthol. It seems to do the trick for pain relefe. Chris Re: Sweet Birch ** And Wintergreen Hello Butch, Thanks you for the very informative post. You hit the nail on the head for me as it was for an aches and pains ointment that I was wanting the birch. I was also looking at wintergreen so you really helped me today. The two people I have in mind have constant arthritis pain and would probably use the ointment at a high frequency. Lessening their pain in the long run does not mean much if I also kill them in the process. :-) I am ditching thought of birch and wintergreen and moving on. Thanks again. Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 Sage- Look at a blend of Black Pepper (Piper nigrum) EO and Lavender EO (L. angustifolia) in peanut oil for an arthritis blend. You could use fractionated coconut as a more stable carrier, but peanut is supposed to have properties that makes it especially good for arthritis. HTH- Lynda Yaaruln@... wrote: >Hello Butch, > >Thanks you for the very informative post. You hit the nail on the head for >me as it was for an aches and pains ointment that I was wanting the birch. I >was also looking at wintergreen so you really helped me today. The two >people I have in mind have constant arthritis pain and would probably use the >ointment at a high frequency. Lessening their pain in the long run does not >mean much if I also kill them in the process. :-) I am ditching thought of >birch and wintergreen and moving on. Thanks again. > >Sage > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 In a message dated 11/23/02 8:45:10 AM Central Standard Time, cpfarm@... writes: > You might try the MSM cream with menthol. It seems to do the trick for pain > relefe. > Chris > Thanks I did get some MSM - with a non requested certificate of analysis included, I might add. I was looking for additional things to add to the MSM recipe because the two people I have in mind really have some very painful arthritis conditions in localized spots. I just wanted to make it the best pain lotion I could for them. Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 In a message dated 11/23/02 8:49:22 AM Central Standard Time, lynda@... writes: > Look at a blend of Black Pepper (Piper nigrum) EO and Lavender EO (L. > angustifolia) in peanut oil for an arthritis blend. You could use > fractionated coconut as a more stable carrier, but peanut is supposed to > have properties that makes it especially good for arthritis. > > Lynda, Thank you so much. I have never heard that about peanut oil, so will certainly research it. I appreciate the help. Lavender was already on my list, but I totally forgot pepper. I am not in business and do not sell anything, so when a friend or family member wants me to make something for them, I really do have to research and scramble a bit. I'd just as soon not poison or kill anyone. :-)) Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 Sage- You are very welcome! I sometimes don't say much because I think people out there must think I am such a know-it-all, always commenting about EO safety. It IS my bug in life! :-D But I know so little about making toiletries that there isn't much else I can contribute. But hey, anytime you have a question, I'll be happy to help. Best wishes- Lynda Yaaruln@... wrote: >In a message dated 11/23/02 8:49:22 AM Central Standard Time, >lynda@... writes: > > >>Look at a blend of Black Pepper (Piper nigrum) EO and Lavender EO (L. >>angustifolia) in peanut oil for an arthritis blend. You could use >>fractionated coconut as a more stable carrier, but peanut is supposed to >>have properties that makes it especially good for arthritis. >> >> > >Lynda, >Thank you so much. I have never heard that about peanut oil, so will >certainly research it. I appreciate the help. Lavender was already on my >list, but I totally forgot pepper. I am not in business and do not sell >anything, so when a friend or family member wants me to make something for >them, I really do have to research and scramble a bit. I'd just as soon not >poison or kill anyone. :-)) > >Sage > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 In a message dated 11/23/02 9:55:15 PM Central Standard Time, cpfarm@... writes: > Have you > joined the MSM-DIY it has great classes and good contacts > for menthol and MSM. > I have not It sounds like something that would be good for me. Thank you very much. Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 You can get menthol crystals for the cream and this gives a good cooling and then warming effect. I made up 24 oz's today and just love it. Have you joined the MSM-DIY it has great classes and good contacts for menthol and MSM. Chris Re: Sweet Birch ** And Wintergreen > In a message dated 11/23/02 8:45:10 AM Central Standard Time, > cpfarm@... writes: > > > > You might try the MSM cream with menthol. It seems to do the trick for pain > > relefe. > > Chris --------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2002 Report Share Posted November 24, 2002 On Friday, November 22, Butch Owen wrote, in part: <snip> >Methyl salicylate is a dermal and oral toxin and there is not one person >in the world of chemistry or medicine that will tell you otherwise, but >that doesn't mean you're gonna fall down and die the first time you use >it. But in concentration, and/or with frequent use, Methyl salicylate >does make people sick, and it can be fatal if the overdose is high. I >want to emphasize " frequent use " because of the cumulative effects of >Methyl salicylate. Don't ask me what is too much .. I don't know .. but >I won't sell them or use them. <snip> Welcome back, Butch When Sage first posted asking about availability on these oils, I literally shuddered and was trying to think of what to say, but no way could I have come back with the goods the way you did. That was a great response. I've been surprised and appalled to see what purported to be Sweet Birch oil and Wintergreen both being sold freely around Vancouver, with no real understanding on the part of the sellers of what they were actually trading in. As you say, this stuff's dangerous, even if it isn't the real thing but the more likely methyl salicylate. I'm glad you raised the question of cumulative effects, because I've been wondering about that. Probably has something to do with how ubiquitous Tiger Balm is around here, because of the influence of a large Asian population, but at some point I found the implications of its ingredient list troubling: for the record, it includes wintergreen along with menthol and camphor. For all I know, there are people wandering about showing classic symptoms of wintergreen/methyl salicylate poisoning (-- heck, it might even explain a few things!) and their doctors have no idea what's going on. Your actual numbers on different OTC preparations have done nothing to reassure me. Is it just me or does that 29g figure for the amount of methyl salicylate in 100g of Icy Hot not sound like rather a lot for a product that some people use fairly regularly? It all leaves me puzzling over how exactly us regular folk should broach the subject of toxicity with people who are selling this stuff. There's nothing like a pecuniary interest to compromise a person's ability to see reason, so hostile defensiveness is almost a given. Add to that the blind faith factor and you're almost snookered before you start. Any chance you have this information somewhere on your website? Maybe I'll just go look now... By the way, could you explain that chiral analysis you mentioned at all? I've never heard of it before, but it immediately made me think of the concept of chirality in chemistry, which is that molecules have a particular direction in the same way that, say, snail shells have a particular direction. A mirror-twin of a molecule -- one that goes the other way -- is called an eniantomer. If I remember correctly, the common synthetic citrus D-Limonene is an eniantomer of naturally occurring Limonene from citrus peel, with the D referring to its direction (Dexter or Right). I seem to remember that eniantomers have a pretty big role in the fragrance, flavouring AND pharmaceutical industries. I just took a quick look at a chiral analysis webpage from Purdue's Chemical faculty, and I think I might be on the right track, but I'd certainly appreciate being straightened out if I'm not. Are eniantomers how chiral analysis distinguishes Methyl Salicylate from Wintergreen or Sweet Birch? regards, Anne-Marie in Vancouver E amst-laurent@... W http://holecomm.ca/~redwing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2002 Report Share Posted November 24, 2002 My previous post on this subject mentioned: >eniantomers Sorry, folks, but that's actually enantiomers. Sheesh. Isn't this what we all love about chemistry, the sheer tongue-tangling complexity? In my other life, as a graphic artist, I've had occasion to handle label copy for cosmetics and toiletries and I can say with the kind of confidence that comes only from painful personal experience that those bloody-long chemical names are just as hard to typeset as they are to say. There is an up side to it, though; after a while, you find yourself doing a better job of parsing the names and they stop being mysterious agglomerations of meaningless syllables. It's probably only out of self-defense because you're the one who actually has to hyphenate the damn things, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? Apologies if I confused anyone, Anne-Marie ______________________ In a recent report by Brightmail, a producer of anti-spam technology, spam now accounts for thirty-eight per cent of all e-mail traffic, up from just eight per cent last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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