Re: refusal to see therapist

[Guest guest]

HI Lynn:

This is a tough one because it seems to us parents that how will our kids

get well if they react this way. That is a normal emotional reaction and

is OCD bossing us around. Our kids want to get well in the worst way, just

they are very frightened.

I would compliment Steve on his determination to get well and his patience

with being schlepped around from doc to doc in search of the one who would

be able to help. He often refused or would not engage. ly this was

the result more of the inexperience of the therapist than Steve's desire to

block therapy. I was so desperate and worried, looking back I would try to

do this again by being more patient and knowing that OCD was tricking Steve

and me.

CBT is hard work and our kids do it successfully when the therapist

develops a therapeutic alliance and builds on our kid's strengths to

encourage them to engage in therapy.

Another suggestion is to interview the therapist by yourself first to

determine the extent of their knowledge about CBT. That way you do not

take Kim to a therapist who will not be treating her.

Also you might find that her resistance is much less once she reaches a

Prozac dosage which is suitable for OCD treatment. The CBT that she has

already done with bedtime shows her ability to succeed at E & RP. She can do

it. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 09:32 PM 02/08/2001 EST, you wrote:

>Hi everyone

>

>Just wanted to know some opinions on how to handle it when your child has

had

>enough and doesn't want to meet or try anymore doctors. Kim likes her

>therapist (not an OCD specialist, just a very nice, caring man) but we have

>pursued others in our search for someone experienced in ERP and CBT. The

>latest is a woman about 30 minutes from here who seems nice (we have met her

>twice now) and she has experience with ERP and CBT (dont know yet to what

>extent). We told Kim last night we are going to bring her to the next

>meeting and she strongly refused, slammed the door and didnt come out all

>night...not even to ask me her " will i throw up " question (thats erp by

>default for her) My feeling is that it is a waste of time to bring her

>somewhere when she is starting off with a terrible attitude and knowing

her a

>very stubborn streak, where she will refuse to speak or cooperate in any

way.

> When do we or should we force our children? On a side note, we had the

>school social worker come over today for 2 hours (super nice lady) and Kim

>agreed to have her come back next week to speak with her...so she isn't

>totally unreasonable about things...just more doctors and people asking her

>the same questions over and over. She told me, I have a psychiatrist (she

>goes to willingly), I have a therapist (also willingly) and we have tried a

>bunch of others...i have enough!

>

>Oh, also for an update...she is sleeping!!!! Well not exactly what some

>parents would consider sleeping normally, but she does fall asleep around

>12:30 now..NOT 4AM...I think this is a BIG improvement and she did this on

>her own. She made up a plan ( so as not to have to go by my plan, which she

>hated) and was able to cut back 30 minutes each night until we go to this

12-

>12:30 time. We are now 10 weeks in to prozac, still on a low dose.

>

>Thanks for any feedback,

>Lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/09/2001 9:36:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,

wb4@... writes:

<< It does sound like Kim has enough people in her life right now!! How about

compromising with her? Since she is working so hard at changing her sleep

patterns and is willing to work with her present professionals, that things

stay the same for now. BUT, if things return to where they were before, she

will agree go to the OCD specialist. You might want to put this in a written

contract - memories can be very selective!! >>

What a great idea Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Lynn, dlsak@...

It does sound like Kim has enough people in her life right now!! How about compromising with her? Since she is working so hard at changing her sleep patterns and is willing to work with her present professionals, that things stay the same for now. BUT, if things return to where they were before, she will agree go to the OCD specialist. You might want to put this in a written contract - memories can be very selective!!! In the mean time, if the therapist is willing, perhaps you could attend some sessions where you deal with OCD in your family, and have the therapist instruct you in some basic ERP exercises??

take care, wendy in canadaGet Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn, you wrote:

> Oh, also for an update...she is sleeping!!!! Well not exactly what some

> parents would consider sleeping normally, but she does fall asleep around

> 12:30 now..NOT 4AM...I think this is a BIG improvement and she did this on

> her own. She made up a plan ( so as not to have to go by my plan, which

she

> hated) and was able to cut back 30 minutes each night until we go to this

12-

> 12:30 time. We are now 10 weeks in to prozac, still on a low dose.

This is so great! Kel turned a corner once we could tame some of the

sleep-robbing problems. Everything is so overwhelming when you are

chronically exhausted.

Congrats to Kim for coming up with a workable plan to address this problem,

and congrats to you for being flexible enough to allow your plan to go by

the wayside gracefully! :-)

I forget how old Kim is, but midnight is a huge improvement over 4 a.m.

Kathy R in Indiana

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/09/2001 9:07:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

klr@... writes:

<< This is so great! Kel turned a corner once we could tame some of the

sleep-robbing problems. Everything is so overwhelming when you are

chronically exhausted.

Congrats to Kim for coming up with a workable plan to address this problem,

and congrats to you for being flexible enough to allow your plan to go by

the wayside gracefully! :-)

I forget how old Kim is, but midnight is a huge improvement over 4 a.m. >>

Thanks Kathy...I already see improvements in other areas just from getting

some much needed sleep, as you did with Kel. Certainly my own attitude is

improving! Kim is 10 and was never a really early to bed kid, even before

the OCD. 12 is not great but she functions pretty well on less sleep than

most kids. Now that sleep is getting better, we have to tackle going back to

school......oh how i wish this was easy!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> When we saw the therapist together

> (for half the appt, and then alone with her for the 2nd half)

> gave totally non-committal or one word answers. She says she

> simply will not miss school anymore and therefore will not need

> therapy. However, she spent the beginning of our Christmas vacation

> hiding in her room

Hi Grace,

I don't have any solutions, but thought I'd share that I'm dealing

with the same reluctance to see a therapist with my 16-yo .

's issues are different, but the limitations on her life are

similar. Because her OCD is triggered by certain people's movements

and sounds, she will retreat to her room when she can't " stand it " .

This is ok sometimes, but not always possible in school, church,

etc. And, I want her to get better! Though I remain calm with her, I

am getting SO frustrated! Why can't anyone help her?! I look to her

future, and see this bright, talented, sensitive girl becoming a total

recluse, not being able to function in society, have a job, or be

around people.

Anyway, it appears that the psychiatrist was correct when she

told me that she didn't know of a therapist (nearby) who dealt with

OCD. ( also refuses to miss school, and I have limited time

off work for doctor/sick days). I called around and found one who

SAID she treated it, convinced she had to go (try it for 5

appointments), and this week is her 4th appointment. (I had met with

this therapist initially and had a good feeling about her, though I

was desperate too, and agreed to give her a try, even though her

diagnosis is " anxiety " and she has done NOTHING with the OCD, and

won't tell me anything because of patient confidientiality.)

won't say much, but admitted that they haven't talked about the OCD,

and are talking about " other things " . I don't think it's a bad thing

necessarily, to develop a rapport, or to discuss " other things " . (I

know she has teen-age issues, no-dad issues, etc.) I just can't

afford to waste my money, time, and my daughter's limited tolerance

for counselors, if it isn't going to help this rotten OCD. So, I

guess I will put in a call to the therapist, and ask for an update,

and relate how badly OCD waxed before Christmas, spoiling much of a

little vacation we took.

If anyone has any suggestions, I am open... am also accepting prayers.

Thanks,

Marlys

[Guest guest]

Oh Marlys,

I hope the therapist is really treating the OCD. We had a therapist who told us

the same thing, but she was convinced that conventional talk therapy would work

(and that I was too close to my son--made my blood boil).

After several sessions, I handed her all my books on ocd. She read them and was

more than ready to " try them out " on my son--we opted to say no way. I need

someone who has treated ocd, not just wants to " practice " on my son.

Good luck to you.

(who is tired of wasting time scheduling, driving, and waiting for

therapists who say they know OCD and don't have a clue) in Nebraska

Re: refusal to see therapist

> When we saw the therapist together

> (for half the appt, and then alone with her for the 2nd half)

> gave totally non-committal or one word answers. She says she

> simply will not miss school anymore and therefore will not need

> therapy. However, she spent the beginning of our Christmas vacation

> hiding in her room

Hi Grace,

I don't have any solutions, but thought I'd share that I'm dealing

with the same reluctance to see a therapist with my 16-yo .

's issues are different, but the limitations on her life are

similar. Because her OCD is triggered by certain people's movements

and sounds, she will retreat to her room when she can't " stand it " .

This is ok sometimes, but not always possible in school, church,

etc. And, I want her to get better! Though I remain calm with her, I

am getting SO frustrated! Why can't anyone help her?! I look to her

future, and see this bright, talented, sensitive girl becoming a total

recluse, not being able to function in society, have a job, or be

around people.

Anyway, it appears that the psychiatrist was correct when she

told me that she didn't know of a therapist (nearby) who dealt with

OCD. ( also refuses to miss school, and I have limited time

off work for doctor/sick days). I called around and found one who

SAID she treated it, convinced she had to go (try it for 5

appointments), and this week is her 4th appointment. (I had met with

this therapist initially and had a good feeling about her, though I

was desperate too, and agreed to give her a try, even though her

diagnosis is " anxiety " and she has done NOTHING with the OCD, and

won't tell me anything because of patient confidientiality.)

won't say much, but admitted that they haven't talked about the OCD,

and are talking about " other things " . I don't think it's a bad thing

necessarily, to develop a rapport, or to discuss " other things " . (I

know she has teen-age issues, no-dad issues, etc.) I just can't

afford to waste my money, time, and my daughter's limited tolerance

for counselors, if it isn't going to help this rotten OCD. So, I

guess I will put in a call to the therapist, and ask for an update,

and relate how badly OCD waxed before Christmas, spoiling much of a

little vacation we took.

If anyone has any suggestions, I am open... am also accepting prayers.

Thanks,

Marlys

[Guest guest]

HI Grace:

Therapy refusal is so common that it appears to be just a symptom

of many mental disorders. When it comes to OCD there can be so

many reasons, therapist contaminated, scrupulosity re: not

deserving to be helped, limited insight into how OCD is interfering

with their functioning leading to almost delusional refusal to get

help, etc. etc.

BDD often travels along with depression so you may want to get a

psychiatric update going if will not participate in

psychotherapy or behavior therapy right now. Steve would go

through periods of this but nothing quite as tricky as you

describe. The worse he got the more willing he became to get

therapy so often we just had to wait out the denial periods until

worsening symptoms forced him to face the obvious. This can be

very upsetting and extremely worrying when you are dealing with

comorbid depression. Good luck, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

> we've had this problem with our previous therapist, but since she

was

> too far away to continue seeing during the school year, I let it go.

> Since the summer I have been looking for the right therapist, and

> finally found her. My daughter (-13) agreed to see her once,

but

> refuses to see her anymore, or I believe if I do convince her to go

> she simply will not communicate. When we saw the therapist together

> (for half the appt, and then alone with her for the 2nd half)

> gave totally non-committal or one word answers. She says she

> simply will not miss school anymore and therefore will not need

> therapy. However, she spent the beginning of our Christmas vacation

> hiding in her room (my parents are visiting) because she looks like

> a " lizard " and her skin needs to get better. This is her version of

> BDD in my opinion (which includes rituals like peeling her skin, and

> applying make-up for a long time) because her skin really looks

fine-

> not flawless, but fine, better than many teens with mild breakouts,

> in fact. She was also off her medication (minocyclin) for " acne "

> prior to the Christmas break b/c the prescription had run out. She

> had not had any anxiety related absences for the time she was on it

> (since before Thanksgiving). She is back on it now and better again.

> I don't know if the minocyclin has some possible therapeutic effect

> on her OCD (which may be pandas OCD) beyond treating acne, or if she

> imagines (magical thinking) that while she is on it her skin looks

> much better, and if she goes off it her skin will look awful, while

> to anyone else there is no discernible difference. Anyway, these

> questions indicate to me that she still needs therapy, and I need

for

> her to get therapy, to get some pressure off of me, plus the problem

> of me acting as intermediary between her and her dad- their

> relationship has totally broken down, and he blames me, and she

> blames him. She thinks she does not need therapy, because she does

> not have a " disorder " just the problems that anyone would have if no

> one liked them, and their skin looked " awful " and they had too much

> exhaustion to keep up from day to day. So has anyone else had a teen

> who refused therapy? (Needless to say also refuses to see a

> psychiatrist, I thought the therapist might be a less threatening

> start for her).

> P.s just wondering, has Melinda been back here at all? It was her

> teen son who refused meds or therapy, I think, and who seemed to

have

> a possible eating disorder, and/or excercize obsession.

> Grace