Guest guest Posted September 14, 2001 Report Share Posted September 14, 2001 In a message dated 9/14/01 2:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s.shalkowski@... writes: > In the big scheme of things, is whey worth the extra expense? For that > matter, assuming that I'm getting varied protein sources (tuna, milk, > legumes, whole grains, etc.) is there any good reason to use anything other > than soy (which here is the cheapest I can get, when it is on sale for 1/2 > : I have tried many protein powders and I have had very good results with nonfat powdered milk and it is much cheaper than any of the alternatives. Quite nutritious too. Best, Bill Black Cumberland FSD, Maine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2001 Report Share Posted September 15, 2001 This post contains replies to both Shalkowski and Bill Black posted: <In the big scheme of things, is whey worth the extra expense?> Tom replies: there are multiple considerations to make when comparing proteins and how useful they are. In the grand scheme of things, if you are taking .8 - 1 g of protein per pound of body mass per day, the type of protein should not matter for things like maintaining/increasing nitrogen balance and weight gain. As you lower protein intake (and assuming calories are held constant) than the type of protein does become more important. Following a low calorie diet also increases the importance of the type of protein (assuming that in this case protein intake is fixed). In order for you to really answer this first part yourself, you need to know if you calorie and protein needs are adequate. Assuming yes to both then it won't matter. If you break down the day into areas where protein synthesis can be maximized it's clear that feeding essential amino acids either before or after a resistance exercise session can acutely stimulate protein synthesis [1]. I mention essential amino acids (EAAs) because it has been previously shown that only EAAs are necessary for muscle protein synthesis [2]. It also appeared to me that the trend for an increase in protein synthesis was greater for EAAs. The application of this research appears to indicate that you can get better results with less calories. If you look outside of protein synthesis and nitrogen balance, there are functional properties of the proteins. When proteins are broken down, there may be very unique peptides that are formed. These peptides may have potent effects such as reducing the incidence of cancer when exposed to a carcinogen, decreasing blood pressure, etc [3-6]. There are over 300 references indicating that soy consumption (with the isoflavones) can reduce the incidence of certain cancers in animals, yet there are only about 69 references for whey. It seems that soy has more research behind it. However, most of the soy studies involved whole soybean consumption, not the isolated protein powder. In addition I was able to find one paper that indicates whey may be better than soy (and both are better than casein) for reducing the incidence of chemically induced mammary cancers in rats [4]. Overall on the protein and preventing cancer issue, I would say either soy or whey but definitely not casein. If you look at hormone levels, soy may [7] or may not [4] lower testosterone levels in male rats. It appears that the dose of isoflavones is the critical factor. 40 g of soy with 118 mg of isoflavones does not appear to lower T levels in men [8]. I would like to add though that I have found that guys consuming 60 g of soy per day (ie 3 scoops) had lower T levels and when we switched them from soy protein to whey protein with soybeans added to the diet, their T levels increased around 13-23% or so (this is an observation made from my experience working with about 5 clients and not a research based observation). There is more research on soy than whey. This means that overall we should know more of the good and the bad about soy, and lack that information on whey. Soy may have some adverse effects on cardiovascular function in men, such as elevating lipoprotein a levels and reducing blood vessel compliance [8]. I couldn't find any info on soy and thyroid function in men but in premenopausal women it may lower certain thyroid hormones [9], while not affecting thyroid hormones in postmenopausal women [10]. The differential effects may be due to the fact that the thyroid hormones were already lower in the postmenopausal women. I reviewed another paper not yet published, which compared whey vs. soy on thyroid function. Soy lowered thyroid hormones and whey did not. The number of different angles to approach this comparison can go on and on. There are certainly some pros and cons to each protein. I can see the rational for taking whey as it would be rather difficult to get the amounts provided from a whey protein supplement from an equivalent amount of skim milk. With soy you can easily get the health benefits from consuming soybeans. I haven't seen any data that indicates soy protein (with isoflavones) is better or cheaper than consuming soybeans. My male clients routinely use 2-3 scoops of whey protein and take 1-2 servings of soybeans about 4-5 days per week with no signs of abnormalities in endocrine, clinical chemistries, or hematology tests. Bill posted: <I have tried many protein powders and I have had very good results with nonfat powdered milk and it is much cheaper than any of the alternatives.> On the basis of getting nitrogen, you are probably right. Any protein in adequate amounts and adequate calorie loads should be sufficient. However, casein is the predominant protein in powdered milk. Casein is one of the worst proteins (based on research results) because it can increase or maintain the risk of cancer (depending on the model and one's interpretation), increase blood lipids, and create other cardiovascular abnormalities (see refs above which used casein as a control in many cases). Another issue that you may want to consider is if the milk powder is fortified with vitamins A & D, you might be getting in excessive amounts, depending on how often and how much you take of this stuff. The high calcium load at one time may displace other minerals from being absorbed. From a functional perspective the milk proteins in powdered milk are denatured and pretty much useless. I have had clients (and even myself) with high cholesterol problems and made a simple change like reducing casein in the diet and noticed pretty substantial drops in total cholesterol, LDL-C, and lipoprotein (a) without changes in HDL-C. If your blood lipids are fine than this may not apply to you, but it wouldn't hurt to check, especially since lots of places are now offering free cholesterol screening. Tom Incledon, MS, RD, LD/N, NSCA-CPT, CSCS Human Performance Specialists, Inc. 619 NW 90th Terrace Plantation, FL 33324 References 1. Tipton, K.D., et al., Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab, 2001. 281(2): p. E197-206. 2. Tipton, K.D., et al., Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol, 1999. 276(4 Pt 1): p. E628-34. 3. Tsai, W.Y., et al., Enchancing effect of patented whey protein isolate (Immunocal) on cytotoxicity of an anticancer drug. Nutr Cancer, 2000. 38(2): p. 200-8. 4. Badger, T.M., M.J. Ronis, and R. Hakkak, Developmental effects and health aspects of soy protein isolate, casein, and whey in male and female rats. Int J Toxicol, 2001. 20(3): p. 165-74. 5. Bounous, G., Whey protein concentrate (WPC) and glutathione modulation in cancer treatment. Anticancer Res, 2000. 20(6C): p. 4785-92. 6. Hakkak, R., et al., Dietary whey protein protects against azoxymethane-induced colon tumors in male rats. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev, 2001. 10(5): p. 555-8. 7. Weber, K.S., et al., Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague- Dawley rats. J Endocrinol, 2001. 170(3): p. 591-9. 8. Teede, H.J., et al., Dietary soy has both beneficial and potentially adverse cardiovascular effects: a placebo-controlled study in men and postmenopausal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2001. 86(7): p. 3053-60. 9. Duncan, A.M., et al., Soy isoflavones exert modest hormonal effects in premenopausal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 1999. 84(1): p. 192-7. 10. Duncan, A.M., et al., Modest hormonal effects of soy isoflavones in postmenopausal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 1999. 84(10): p. 3479-84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ed, Depends on the individual. " Best " is subjective; one person's meat will be another's poison. I for instance have trouble digesting most protein shakes - I recently tried Gaspari's MyoFusion. Tastes great, inexpensive, excellent formulation, mixes very easily, but it really starts to hurt my gut after a few days. I had to discontinue its use. I'm back with CNP ProPeptide, which for me is the best out there. However, it's expensive. I can also digest egg protein powders fine, but I hate the taste. Soy I haven't tried, nor have I tried wheat fractions. Pérez Reynosa, Mexico ================================== ________________________________ From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On Behalf Of Ed White Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:58 AM Supertraining Subject: Protein Powders I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very expensive. Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? Thanks, ========================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Beans and dark green leafy vegetables. Thanks, Buddy ----------- Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic www.bmfchiro.com Healthy Habits Natural Market www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Ed White<kitesurfer257@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. > > Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? > How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? > > Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein > that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? > > How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very > expensive. > > Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? > > Thanks, > > Ed White > Sandwich, MA USA > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi Buddy! I hope you were being facetious. Beans are far from a " quality source of protein " for any athlete trying to replenish post workout amino acid pools. Jay So Cal, USA Re: Protein Powders Beans and dark green leafy vegetables. Thanks, Buddy ----------- Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic www.bmfchiro.com Healthy Habits Natural Market www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Ed White<kitesurfer257@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. > > Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? > How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? > > Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein > that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? > > How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very > expensive. > > Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? > > Thanks, > > Ed White > Sandwich, MA USA > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I was joking somewhat. I think whey is the most readily available amino acid source. However, it's hard to argue with some of those bulls. They don't eat an ounce of meat, yet grow very muscular and to several thousand pounds. I'm not vegan by the way. While we're talking about it though, any body builders/ weight lifting athletes here vegan? Buddy On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jay <jayckbb@...> wrote: > Hi Buddy! > > I hope you were being facetious. > > Beans are far from a " quality source of protein " for any athlete trying to replenish post workout amino acid pools. > > Jay > So Cal, USA > > Re: Protein Powders > > > Beans and dark green leafy vegetables. > > Thanks, > > Buddy > > ----------- > Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. > Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic > www.bmfchiro.com > Healthy Habits Natural Market > www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com -- Thanks, Buddy ----------- Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic www.bmfchiro.com Healthy Habits Natural Market www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I use soy protein isolate. It works well for me. I can't say it will or will not work for you because each body is different. There are whey and milk protein powders with the lactose removed if you are lactose intolerant. I've had good results with MLO protein powder, soy protein isolate powder, designer whey protein powder, and American bodybuilding ready to drink protein shakes in bottles. I have not had good results with EAS ready to drink shakes, Met-rx powder, and Isopure zero carb ready to drink protein shakes. When I say good results I mean strength gains. Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA In a message dated 7/21/2009 10:46:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kitesurfer257@... writes: I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very expensive. Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? ============================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 So Eddie White is going to take beans and vegetables to the gym? Or carry beans and vegetables around all day in an iced cooler? What about the high amounts of fiber in beans and leafy greens? Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA In a message dated 7/21/2009 11:49:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dr.touchinsky@... writes: Beans and dark green leafy vegetables. Thanks, Buddy ============================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Greetings, Has anyone mentioned allergies or food sensitivities? Has every one with any consequence to protein powder rotated proteins? Jerry Telle Lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'd also like to know if anybody has researched it to find a verified pure protein powder. I haven't bought any supps other than a multivitamin and fish oil in quite some time, but I haven't been working that hard either. Monday a new program is starting and I'm expecting to get beat up. The conundrum for me is I gotta get up and get started in 10 minutes or less...the only time I can expect to get a workout in uninterrupted would be 4:50am til 6am so I may have to start taking whey again. I really don't know what I can eat or drink other than a whey/carb mix since I'm starting within 10 minutes of waking. Even a bananna in that short period might be nasueating. So now that I eat almost 70% organic I really don't want to buy a protein powder full of unlisted garbage. If you know of a reputable clean brand let me know either on or off list? Is a protein/carb mix the right thing to do before a morning workout? Matt Kahl Kenosha, WI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 , You should check out Lyle Mc. He has a book called The Protein Book that will answer your questions with good scientific backing. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-protein-book you can also peruse the website and find lots of good info. Regards, Tony Kenck City? Country? > > I'm hoping that someone with some real science, and not just bodybuilding > web sites, behind them can help me out here. > > I've been using soy protein as the only supplement to my diet (which I > think is pretty good). I'm thinking of buying some other bulk protein > powder and am considering whey and casein. I know that all the > bodybuilding " experts " recommend whey. > > In the big scheme of things, is whey worth the extra expense? For that > matter, assuming that I'm getting varied protein sources (tuna, milk, > legumes, whole grains, etc.) is there any good reason to use anything other > than soy (which here is the cheapest I can get, when it is on sale for 1/2 > price)? At the moment, I'm guessing that it might make a difference only > if trying to put together a pre-/post-workout drink like Tom Incledon > suggested a couple of times on this list, if then. I'm hoping that someone > can get me beyond my guessing. > > Shalkowski > Leeds, UK > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Sorry for the ignorance, but would boiled chicken breast be a reasonable source of protein pre/post workout? About 3.5 ounces has about 30 g protein, you can buy frozen here for about $2.50 a pound (*I think,* could be wrong, haven't done the shopping in a couple of months) which would put it at about 60 cents per serving. It's not a lot of volume, I don't see why it would sit any worse in the stomach pre-workout than a protein shake does. Shred it, throw in a little salt, garlic powder, chili powder, and it'll actually taste good (sorry, I've never met a protein drink that I thought actually tasted good). What would be the down side? Would it take significantly longer to digest if it was shredded, therefore taking longer to be available? For post-workout I can see maybe it would be a problem, but pre-workout, wouldn't something that digests a little slower be better? - Lockhart Hilo, Hawai'i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I guess you could just take some carbs before training? in the form of liquid? Then have a high protein/carb shake after your workout? What about things like protein bars or energy bars? Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA In a message dated 7/22/2009 7:31:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, matt.kahl@... writes: I'd also like to know if anybody has researched it to find a verified pure protein powder. I haven't bought any supps other than a multivitamin and fish oil in quite some time, but I haven't been working that hard either. Monday a new program is starting and I'm expecting to get beat up. The conundrum for me is I gotta get up and get started in 10 minutes or less...the only time I can expect to get a workout in uninterrupted would be 4:50am til 6am so I may have to start taking whey again. I really don't know what I can eat or drink other than a whey/carb mix since I'm starting within 10 minutes of waking. Even a bananna in that short period might be nasueating. So now that I eat almost 70% organic I really don't want to buy a protein powder full of unlisted garbage. If you know of a reputable clean brand let me know either on or off list? Is a protein/carb mix the right thing to do before a morning workout? =========================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 , Chicken breast is an excellent protein snack and your recipe sounds tasty. However, the issue is bioavailibility. Ideally protein ingestion and absorption should begin within 30 min post training. Hydrolyzed whey protein is a good way to go. No pun intended. Mix with chocolate milk and you're good to go. Frozen cantaloupe, banana and pineapple slices, some apple juice and whey mixed after a 45 sec burst in your blender may be a bit more appropriate for you locale. Try it and then tell me it's not delicious. Cool, refreshing and very healthy, this fruit smoothie with the approprite amount of whey protein goes down easy and really hits the spot and is very nutritious. Try it, you'll like it. You can't go wrong, you've got " da kine " pineapple! Hawaiian...best in the world! Food is an important part of a balanced diet. - Fran Lebowitz W.G. Ubermensch Sports Consultancy San Diego, CA From: Lockhart <lockhart@...> Subject: Re: Re: Protein Powders Supertraining Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 12:12 PM Sorry for the ignorance, but would boiled chicken breast be a reasonable source of protein pre/post workout? About 3.5 ounces has about 30 g protein, you can buy frozen here for about $2.50 a pound (*I think,* could be wrong, haven't done the shopping in a couple of months) which would put it at about 60 cents per serving. It's not a lot of volume, I don't see why it would sit any worse in the stomach pre-workout than a protein shake does. Shred it, throw in a little salt, garlic powder, chili powder, and it'll actually taste good (sorry, I've never met a protein drink that I thought actually tasted good). What would be the down side? Would it take significantly longer to digest if it was shredded, therefore taking longer to be available? For post-workout I can see maybe it would be a problem, but pre-workout, wouldn't something that digests a little slower be better? - Lockhart Hilo, Hawai'i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Dear Group: There are several chapters that provide a detailed analysis of differences in various types of protein and the influence of timing protein intake on protein synthesis and training adaptations in our new book referenced below. I believe this will answer many of the questions posed recently. We also have some articles and book chapters on our lab website you may find helpful. Kreider RB, Leutholtz B, Katch FI, Katch, VL. Exercise & Sport Nutrition: Principles, Promises, Research & Recommendations. <http://www.exerciseandsportnutrition.com> Fitness Technologies Press. Santa Barbara, CA. 2009. 560 pages. Available at www.ExerciseAndSportNutrition.com or www.Amazon.com. Regards, Rick Kreider Exercise & Sport Nutrition Lab Texas A & M University http://esnl.tamu.edu =============================== From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On Behalf Of Tony Kenck Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:17 AM Supertraining Subject: Re: Protein Powders , You should check out Lyle Mc. He has a book called The Protein Book that will answer your questions with good scientific backing. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-protein-book you can also peruse the website and find lots of good info. Regards, Tony Kenck City? Country? > > I'm hoping that someone with some real science, and not just bodybuilding > web sites, behind them can help me out here. > > I've been using soy protein as the only supplement to my diet (which I > think is pretty good). I'm thinking of buying some other bulk protein > powder and am considering whey and casein. I know that all the > bodybuilding " experts " recommend whey. > > In the big scheme of things, is whey worth the extra expense? For that > matter, assuming that I'm getting varied protein sources (tuna, milk, > legumes, whole grains, etc.) is there any good reason to use anything other > than soy (which here is the cheapest I can get, when it is on sale for 1/2 > price)? At the moment, I'm guessing that it might make a difference only > if trying to put together a pre-/post-workout drink like Tom Incledon > suggested a couple of times on this list, if then. I'm hoping that someone > can get me beyond my guessing. > > Shalkowski > Leeds, UK > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Eating chicken right before a workout can cause sluggishness and nausea for me. I'd have to wait an hour after eating chicken to do a hard workout. From what I studied in college about digestion chicken takes a long time to digest. Easily digested things are simple sugars and protein shakes. Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA = ================================ In a message dated 7/22/2009 10:40:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lockhart@... writes: Sorry for the ignorance, but would boiled chicken breast be a reasonable source of protein pre/post workout? About 3.5 ounces has about 30 g protein, you can buy frozen here for about $2.50 a pound (*I think,* could be wrong, haven't done the shopping in a couple of months) which would put it at about 60 cents per serving. It's not a lot of volume, I don't see why it would sit any worse in the stomach pre-workout than a protein shake does. Shred it, throw in a little salt, garlic powder, chili powder, and it'll actually taste good (sorry, I've never met a protein drink that I thought actually tasted good). What would be the down side? Would it take significantly longer to digest if it was shredded, therefore taking longer to be available? For post-workout I can see maybe it would be a problem, but pre-workout, wouldn't something that digests a little slower be better? -================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hello all: I just wanted to remain all of you gents outhere that are using protein powders to avoid those protein powders that contain soy since it has been proven to have advrse effects in men because, soy protein is loaded with " female hormones " Men usinng protein powders need to use those that contain whey, which support muscle growth. Take care and if you ned more details let me know sincerely Rene Maldonado Vancouver, B.C. From: Lockhart <lockhartifa (DOT) hawaii.edu> Subject: Re: Re: Protein Powders Supertraining Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 12:12 PM Sorry for the ignorance, but would boiled chicken breast be a reasonable source of protein pre/post workout? About 3.5 ounces has about 30 g protein, you can buy frozen here for about $2.50 a pound (*I think,* could be wrong, haven't done the shopping in a couple of months) which would put it at about 60 cents per serving. It's not a lot of volume, I don't see why it would sit any worse in the stomach pre-workout than a protein shake does. Shred it, throw in a little salt, garlic powder, chili powder, and it'll actually taste good (sorry, I've never met a protein drink that I thought actually tasted good). What would be the down side? Would it take significantly longer to digest if it was shredded, therefore taking longer to be available? For post-workout I can see maybe it would be a problem, but pre-workout, wouldn't something that digests a little slower be better? - Lockhart Hilo, Hawai'i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 The pros and cons, including warnings of dire consequences of using soy protein, seem to circulate endlessly - but never with any refinement. Soy comes in all sorts of forms - just check those available through The Protein Factory online. As with whey, soy isolate versions can be purchased. Does anyone know if the isolate version successfully lessens, perhaps eliminates, estrogen content? by analogy, whey isolate significantly lessens the amount of ionized ldl cholestrol found in whey concentrate (cheaper, hence more popular in formulations). I've read in recent times soy is actually benefical due to arginine concentrations, and due to something in it being benefical to prostate health. Since prostate health, like breast health, can become compromised unto cancer by 'bad estrogens', it would seem that the 'hormone' argument fails here. Anyone know more about this??? best Ken O'Neill Austin, Texas > > Hello all: > > I just wanted to remain all of you gents outhere that are using protein powders to avoid those protein powders that contain soy since it has been proven to have advrse effects in men because, soy protein is loaded with " female hormones " > > Men usinng protein powders need to use those that contain whey, which support muscle growth. Take care and if you ned more details let me know > > sincerely > Rene Maldonado > Vancouver, B.C. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hi Ed, I think there is some consensus that hydrolyzed whey protein, taken with maltodextrin, is the best choice directly before, during and after a workout if hypertrophy is the game. Whey gets into the system quickly. Later in the day, a mixture of whey and casein. At night, some casein (slow acting). You might find these links useful: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/all_about_protein.htm See also Protein Comparison and Protein Super Feature at this link: http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/index.htm Hope that helps. Pitruzzello, Ph.D. Chicago, IL On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Ed White <kitesurfer257@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. > > Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? > How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? > > Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein > that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? > > How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very > expensive. > > Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? > > Thanks, > > Ed White > Sandwich, MA USA > > > > > > > -- J. Pitruzzello, Ph.D. Chicago, Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 , I question if hydrolyzed protein really is that much better than whey concentrate when you look at the cost involved.? I've used hydrolyzed, cross flow, whey concentrate and a few others.? I didn't notice any improvement in recovery or performance?when using hydrolyzed compared to whey concentrate. I did notice a decline in my bank account.? That because whey hydrolyzed is about twice as much as whcy concentrate.? Lyle Mc has stated that whey concentrate is much more cost effective vs hydrolyzed.? Dr Ivy noted that,? " ...?whey protein is just as good as the hydrolyzed protein.? It may empty a little faster from the intestines, but this is not important? for post exercise recovery. " As someone once said, " It not how much protein you take in, it how much you digest. " What appears to enhance protein?transport?into the muscle cells are?the electorlytes in the protein powder.? Ivy get into that to some extent in Nutrient Timing.? Kenny Croxdale Orange, CA Re: Protein Powders Hi Ed, I think there is some consensus that hydrolyzed whey protein, taken with maltodextrin, is the best choice directly before, during and after a workout if hypertrophy is the game. Whey gets into the system quickly. Later in the day, a mixture of whey and casein. At night, some casein (slow acting). You might find these links useful: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/all_about_protein.htm See also Protein Comparison and Protein Super Feature at this link: http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/index.htm Hope that helps. Pitruzzello, Ph.D. Chicago, IL On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Ed White <kitesurfer257@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to find the healthiest and least expensive source of protein. > > Who has researched this subject? What have you found? Is whey the best? > How about Hemp or soy? Are they good or bad? > > Is there something in soy that is bad? Are there any forms of soy protein > that do not have the harmful stuff? Is hemp free of harmful substances? > > How about branched amino acids? Are they the best? They are very > expensive. > > Are there any chemical residues or preservatives in these protein powders? > > Thanks, > > Ed White > Sandwich, MA USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I currently use soy protein isolate and I have not noticed any weakness or fatigue from the protein. In fact when I am using soy protein isolate I get stronger. Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate contains any female hormones? Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate has adverse effects in men? Did you know that many countries including the USA and Canada put soy products in hundreds if not thousands of products? For example, a can of tuna has soy protein isolate. A loaf of bread can contain soy products such as soy lecithin. Soy products are found in many canned foods and frozen foods. The proof? Read the labels of these foods. Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA In a message dated 7/28/2009 1:48:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, friskylatino@... writes: Hello all: I just wanted to remain all of you gents outhere that are using protein powders to avoid those protein powders that contain soy since it has been proven to have advrse effects in men because, soy protein is loaded with " female hormones " Men usinng protein powders need to use those that contain whey, which support muscle growth. Take care and if you ned more details let me know =============================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I have not been able to take any protein products that contains whey, it makes my stomach burn for several hours - that includes Muscle Milk etc. I now use soy isolate and have not experienced any problems. Julius Cassels NW Louisiana Re: Re: Protein Powders I currently use soy protein isolate and I have not noticed any weakness or fatigue from the protein. In fact when I am using soy protein isolate I get stronger. Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate contains any female hormones? Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate has adverse effects in men? Did you know that many countries including the USA and Canada put soy products in hundreds if not thousands of products? For example, a can of tuna has soy protein isolate. A loaf of bread can contain soy products such as soy lecithin. Soy products are found in many canned foods and frozen foods. The proof? Read the labels of these foods. Edwin Freeman, Jr. San Francisco, USA In a message dated 7/28/2009 1:48:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, friskylatino@... writes: Hello all: I just wanted to remain all of you gents outhere that are using protein powders to avoid those protein powders that contain soy since it has been proven to have advrse effects in men because, soy protein is loaded with " female hormones " Men usinng protein powders need to use those that contain whey, which support muscle growth. Take care and if you ned more details let me know =============================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Different authors have different takes on this issue. Dr. Eugene Shippen endorses the use of soy protein for its many benefits, including lowering cancer rates. The Okinawan Diet Plan book also talks, with scientific evidence, about the use and benefits of soy products, tofu, etc., and the much lower age-related diseases in Okinawa, for both males and females, along with high longevity. The important point is that soy isoflavones are phytoestrogens " very similar in chemical structure to human estrogens but far weaker. Typically such estrogens have only about 1/500 the active effect of estradiol, the most active human estrogen (Shippen). " High levels of (weaker) soy phytoestrogens compete with the female hormone for receptor sites in your body (male and female). Bottom line is that it is better to ingest a weaker form of phytoestrogen such as in soy products to fill up these receptor sites - the much bigger danger is the xenoestrogens, the industrial chemicals and pharmaceuticals that mimic the stronger female hormones (Ori Hofmekler has books such as The Warrior Diet, Anti-Estrogenic Diet etc. talking about these issues). For me a drink of organic unsweetened soy milk with hydrolyzed whey isolate protein works well before a workout, getting the best of both worlds. Best regards Jaideep Mukherjee, Ph. D. Sensei, Yuwakan.com Houston TX USA On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:38 PM, <efreem3407@...> wrote: > > > I currently use soy protein isolate and I have not noticed any weakness or > fatigue from the protein. In fact when I am using soy protein isolate I > get stronger. > > Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate contains any female > hormones? > > Do you have any proof that soy protein isolate has adverse effects in men? > > Did you know that many countries including the USA and Canada put soy > products in hundreds if not thousands of products? For example, a can of > tuna > has soy protein isolate. A loaf of bread can contain soy products such as > soy lecithin. Soy products are found in many canned foods and frozen > foods. The proof? Read the labels of these foods. > > > Edwin Freeman, Jr. > San Francisco, USA > > > In a message dated 7/28/2009 1:48:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > friskylatino@... <friskylatino%40.ca> writes: > > Hello all: > > I just wanted to remain all of you gents outhere that are using protein > powders to avoid those protein powders that contain soy since it has been > proven to have advrse effects in men because, soy protein is loaded with > " female hormones " > > Men usinng protein powders need to use those that contain whey, which > support muscle growth. Take care and if you ned more details let me know > =============================== > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Is anyone familiar with PlantFusion protein powder or Ultimate Greens Protein 8 in 1 w/Hemp Protein? Thanks in advance! Judy Steiner, RD, LD Bariatric Dietitian Member ASMBS and ADA St. Luke's Boise Medical Center 208-381-7281 mg.slrmc.org made the following annotations---------------------------------------------------------------------"This message is intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged, the disclosure of which is governed by applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by error, please notify us immediately and destroy the related message." --------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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