Tonight's Coordinated Care Organizations Meeting - How Did it Go?

[Guest guest]

Dear colleagues those of you who went to the meeting tonight would you please take the time to post a comprehensive summary of how it went. Positives, negatives, what we can do during the final two meetings to improve? Eugene and Astoria....Vern Saboe

[Guest guest]

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care.

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.

Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

Great job Dan! I represented us at the Wheelies last night. My best,Dr. Huma PierceDC fCBP OBCE Chiropractic First LLCWww.c1pdx.comWww.thebicyclechiropractor.comOn Oct 11, 2011, at 11:27 AM, "Dan Beeson" <drdan@...> wrote:

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care.

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.

Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

I was one of the Doc's; at the meeting also. I gave my input at the roundtable meeting and helped deep Chiropractic at the forefront of the discussion with regard to the future healthcare system in Oregon.  It was definitely a wild bunch -perhaps 500 people packed in tight quarters.  I believe Chiropractic was well represented.

  I would recommend that docs get familiar with the talking points that Vern has posted on this list so that you are ready to voice your opinion when the opportunity presents itself. Schneider DC

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dan Beeson <drdan@...> wrote:

 

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting.  I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there.  After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care. 

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers.  There were about 8 DC's there.  Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions.  So here what is important to do from now on.  Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important.  I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

 So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.   

 

Dan Beeson DC 

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. Beeson and all those who have attended these CCO meetings. H O W E V E R , if the CCO is "truly" interested in providing the type of health care the PUBLIC wants...I think we should simply BOMBARD them with the study Dr. Eisenberg from Harvard did, which showed there were 629 MILLION visits to "alternative" (I hate that term for us) practitioners--which was 62% MORE than the total visits to ALL primary care providers...(386 million). Condition specific rates for alternative care were 57% for neck and 47.6% for back problems (and if memory serves...the cost of alternative care was 2% of that spent on medical care).

Currently, health-care costs $3 TRILLION annually (17% of the GDP) and yet, the United States ranks 42nd among all nations in terms of life expectancy.

So, clearly, the public wants (and is paying out of pocket for) "alternative" health care... I just hope these meetings aren't a "dog and pony show" just to appease everyone, while they construct a system of more medicine. (;-)

http://www.alternativemedicine.com/conditions/health-edge-medicine-21st-century

http://www.mychiro.com/February1999.htm

http://www.journalclub.org/vol2/a68.html

M. s, D.C.

Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go?

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care.

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.

Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

:. ............not with our presence they aren't! skSunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: drbobdc83@...Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:25:36 -0700Subject: Re: Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go?

Thank you Dr. Beeson and all those who have attended these CCO meetings. H O W E V E R , if the CCO is "truly" interested in providing the type of health care the PUBLIC wants...I think we should simply BOMBARD them with the study Dr. Eisenberg from Harvard did, which showed there were 629 MILLION visits to "alternative" (I hate that term for us) practitioners--which was 62% MORE than the total visits to ALL primary care providers...(386 million). Condition specific rates for alternative care were 57% for neck and 47.6% for back problems (and if memory serves...the cost of alternative care was 2% of that spent on medical care).

Currently, health-care costs $3 TRILLION annually (17% of the GDP) and yet, the United States ranks 42nd among all nations in terms of life expectancy.

So, clearly, the public wants (and is paying out of pocket for) "alternative" health care... I just hope these meetings aren't a "dog and pony show" just to appease everyone, while they construct a system of more medicine. (;-)

http://www.alternativemedicine.com/conditions/health-edge-medicine-21st-century

http://www.mychiro.com/February1999.htm

http://www.journalclub.org/vol2/a68.html

M. s, D.C.

Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go?

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care.

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.

Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

I wrote a long description which I’ll send for entertainment later.

Dr. Beeson is correct.

Entrenched powers are probably not interested in chiropractors acting in a primary role.

They will politely listen to all suggestions.

The only method which has a chance of working is to get public to write and speak to policy makers with a clear message that they want chiropractors to be able to be primary providers.

Even with all that, they’ll probably compromise and offer to allow us to manage care as ancillary caregivers.

Go here: http://www.health.oregon.gov/

Look at CCO’s.

They are coordianted care organizations. (How often do medical people “coordinate” chiropractic care into, oh, let’s say post-operative care? How about post—trauma care? )

Here’s where your patients can give feedback:

http://www.health.oregon.gov/OHA/OHPB/health-reform/stakeholders.shtml

By the way, do we even WANT to be primary care providers for people who are chronically in crisis?

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Dan Beeson <drdan@...>

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:27:20 -0700

< >

Subject: Re: " Tonight's " Coordinated Care Organizations " Meeting - How Did it Go?

Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care.

We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants.

So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants.

Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

Hi Listserve and Vern

I went to the meeting last night. What an interesting change is being proposed. My take on the meeting is this. Not enough money and many complex problems to solve. None the least being addictions. If what they say is that the local community care organizations get to decide on who is in then there should be no problem getting alternative care providers in the groups in Portland anyway. The big issue I see is how does the new group actually solve the problems that have not been that easy to solve. I like the concept and immagine it will take time to orchestrate. I think the issues goes far beyond getting chiropractic included (even though that is obviously the first step) to the issue of solving the group problem of solving complex issues using everyone best skills without argueing to death first. What an exciting time of change.

[Guest guest]

This Dynamic Chiropractor article is timely as our near future begins to become clearer:"The primary spine care practitioner would function as the first contact for patients with SRDs [spine-related disorders], i.e., the first practitioner that a patient consults when he or she develops a spine problem. The primary spine care practitioner could also function as a resource for traditional PCPs (family practice physicians, general internal medicine physicians, pediatric, obstetrical / gynecological physicians, primary care nurse practitioners or physician's assistants) to refer patients who present with SRDs." (Dan ) See more at: http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=55564 Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Oct 11, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Abrahamson wrote: I wrote a long description which I’ll send for entertainment later. Dr. Beeson is correct. Entrenched powers are probably not interested in chiropractors acting in a primary role. They will politely listen to all suggestions. The only method which has a chance of working is to get public to write and speak to policy makers with a clear message that they want chiropractors to be able to be primary providers. Even with all that, they’ll probably compromise and offer to allow us to manage care as ancillary caregivers. Go here: http://www.health.oregon.gov/ Look at CCO’s. They are coordianted care organizations. (How often do medical people “coordinate” chiropractic care into, oh, let’s say post-operative care? How about post—trauma care? ) Here’s where your patients can give feedback: http://www.health.oregon.gov/OHA/OHPB/health-reform/stakeholders.shtml By the way, do we even WANT to be primary care providers for people who are chronically in crisis? -- E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com From: Dan Beeson <drdan@...> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:27:20 -0700 < > Subject: Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go? Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care. We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants. So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants. Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

It was a little strange.

I noticed at least 2 people concealing unlit torches and a lady with a pitchfork hidden in her coat. Seriously though, there are a lot of people with well ground (grinded?) axes at public meetings hoping to get society to DO SOMETHING. Some are on the verge of an unsettling level of anger. (And this is coming from a hockey player.)

Of course, most of us are tuned into radio station WIIFM (What’s In It For Me.)

There were a lot of health care providers in sort of junior varsity levels; mental health workers, foster care providers, speech pathologists, etc. Then there were lots of people advocating for everyone to gain access to all aspects of health care [mental health, addiction, smoking cessation, dental, learning disabilities, skateboard therapy].

There seems to be a foregone stipulation that medical physicians will be accepted as the primary providers and anyone else will be support “providers”?

Can we stop for a moment to take note that several billion dollars in government paid drug reimbursement that only physicians can prescribe has a lot of clout?

Can we also connect some dots and realize that pretty soon, the escalating number of prescriptions being written by naturopaths will put them in a position to be welcomed in just like the DO’s of old?

(Dr. and her pals will be going to free seminars in the Bahamas and we’ll be stuck at a Red Lion in Tuckwilla!)

The naturopaths were jumping up like rabbits to assert their participation and the moderators were weaseling like crazy. It was a zoo! HAHA. They were responding to queries about alternative care participation with weird scenarios like, “If a community wants alternative care providers, we want to be sure to allow them to make that decision.” Oh, sure. Like metropolitan Sweet Home is going to allow a chiropractor to participate when Old Doc Brown, M.D. Is telling them that he will refer to a chiropractor IF he feels that one is needed. Same with referrals to phrenologists and palm readers, P-R-N.

There were some great PowerPoint slides. Open this PDF link:

http://health.oregon.gov/OHA/OHPB/health-reform/docs/transforming-ohp.pdf

Then scroll to page 7 you will see the terrible news of the emphasis on medical intervention, which they agree is incorrect. Now we’re talking! Lifestyle and behavior is put at 40% of health. Choices.

At one point the moderator told a “success story” about workers with back pain taking days to get in to see doctors and getting x-rays, MRI’s, etc. and the miracle solution of having a P.T. on staff who could care for the worker right away; apparently with x-ray specs. and the new Apple iPhone MRI app. What a load of crap. It’s about market share. When an MD refers to a P.T., they will get them back. When they lose someone to a chiropractor, they may lose them for good; or even worse, they might come back and start questioning the 8 prescriptions that they are on.

Don’t think that this is going to be a battle won solely with studies. facts, or cooperation. As Dr. Beeson said, it will only be won if the public, with our encouragement, demands chiropractic be primary in the game.

Although it’s a friendly competition for market share, they happen to want us...dead! They want our families dead! They want our houses burned to the ground!, etc. (Al Capone, 1933.)

Did you know that midwives won the ability to be included in federal health care in Canada? Did that happen because the OB/GYN’s said, “We have researched your training and find you qualified to see our patients”? Or was it because the public lobbied the heck out of the policy writers. Take your time. We’ll wait.

=======================================

So, there was a big comments section at the end and I felt like enough naturopaths had spoken about alternative care so we were sort of represented; and I WISHED that the comely Judith Boothby had commented because she is well spoken and smarter that the HAL 9000 computer (MIT grad, you know.) Or perhaps the rugged, Life grad. Dr. Schneider would speak out in his acquired southern drawl.

But nooooo.

....and Dan Beeson kept staring at me with an accusatory look so I jumped up and told the moderator that,

“ I’m going to let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time! I’m just sayin’.”

Frightened silence.

Just kidding.

Actually I think I said, “...as a color commentary, about health care in general please look at the 1910 Flexner report that captured the health care market for medical doctors relegating some very good ideas to alternative care. Currently, medical doctors, osteopaths, naturopaths and chiropractors are all primary care physicians licensed in the state and should be allowed to participate as such, but that they should not look for a harmonious team because we hold completely different views about the road to health and wellness. Sorry about that “bad news”. But ultimately it will be better for people’s health. (I got an honorable mention for the longest run on sentence of the night.)

(Was planning to slip in a comment about how alternative care to standard medical care is like Apple which irritated Microsoft but the public has benefitted from Apple’s constant demand that the industry could be more innovative and think outside the freakin’ PDR, but I forgot. I did say it on the way home in the car.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report

I failed to cite the studies that you, Vern mentioned.

I handed out the article “Zen and The Art of Chiropractic Maintenance” at that end.

If anyone goes to speak, I recommend jumping up early and citing one good study.

I highly recommend that we get patients involved as the regulators see us as simply vying for market share.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...>

Reply-Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...>

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:29:06 -0700

<Oregondcs >

Subject: " Tonight's " Coordinated Care Organizations " Meeting - How Did it Go? "

Dear colleagues those of you who went to the meeting tonight would you please take the time to post a comprehensive summary of how it went. Positives, negatives, what we can do during the final two meetings to improve? Eugene and Astoria....Vern Saboe

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post I have Dan's orignial artical it is indeed an option we may end up want to got to, we just don't know yet. Vern Saboe

Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go? Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care. We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants. So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants. Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

Eugene doctors I think it is clear that if you could get a few of your patients to the meeting to voice there opinions that they want their chiropractor fully included it would be helpful...

Vern Saboe

"Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go?" Dear colleagues those of you who went to the meeting tonight would you please take the time to post a comprehensive summary of how it went. Positives, negatives, what we can do during the final two meetings to improve? Eugene and Astoria....Vern Saboe

[Guest guest]

The "public" already spoke up...AND ITS IN A STUDY FROM HARVARD!! We don't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to "proving" what type of care people want. They want ALTERNATIVE CARE 3:1... (:-)

I agree the PUBLIC needs to continue to speak-up at these meetings...but, our CCO committee members need to present the Eisenberg/Harvard study in its entirety. I'm just sayin'... (;-)))

RR

Re: "Tonight's "Coordinated Care Organizations" Meeting - How Did it Go? Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care. We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants. So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants. Dan Beeson DC

[Guest guest]

Bob, do you have that study in fact he did a later study that revealed the number and % of folks going to CAM only increased?? To you or anyone have that stuff…. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of M. s, D.C.Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Re: " Tonight's " Coordinated Care Organizations " Meeting - How Did it Go? The " public " already spoke up...AND ITS IN A STUDY FROM HARVARD!! We don't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to " proving " what type of care people want. They want ALTERNATIVE CARE 3:1... (:-) I agree the PUBLIC needs to continue to speak-up at these meetings...but, our CCO committee members need to present the Eisenberg/Harvard study in its entirety. I'm just sayin'... (;-))) RR Re: " Tonight's " Coordinated Care Organizations " Meeting - How Did it Go? Dear List,, I attended last nights meeting. I was a huge group of folks jammed into a tight meeting room. Every segment of society was there. After a power point presentation we broke out into groups and answered three questions about Health care. We answered the question as a group and one person got up and gave the group our answers. There were about 8 DC's there. Dr Abrahamson got up and made a great statement about chiropractic. I got with Dr Goldberg at the end of the meeting and asked him some questions. So here what is important to do from now on. Patient input that they want DC's in the system is important. I think it is more important than we the providers asking to be included.. Goldberg said they will provide the care that the public wants. So I would recommend that we get DC patients to the last two meetings and get them to voice their needs and wants. Dan Beeson DC