Re: IDET for Facet Joint Pain?

[Guest guest]

Vern,I don't know what they're talking about. The IDET catheter is not designed for use on the facet capsule, which I would think would have the same response to being burned as any other pain sensitive structure - it wouldn't like it. Medial branch neurolysis is the treatment of choice, in which the nerve is burned as it passes near the pedicle. IDET is pretty much a huge flop, and I haven't even heard of anyone doing it. If I was reviewing any guidelines that included IDET as a treatment for anything I would ask to see some convincing evidence (at least the level demanded for chiropractic care) that it was effective.M

D Freeman PhD MPH DCForensic EpidemiologistAffiliate Professor of EpidemiologyDepartment of Public Health and Preventive MedicineOregon Health and Science University School of MedicineAffiliate Professor of PsychiatryDepartment of PsychiatryOregon Health and Science University School of MedicineAdjunct Associate Professor of Forensic Medicine and EpidemiologyInstitute of Forensic Medicine, Faculty of Health SciencesAarhus University Aarhus, DenmarkMailing address: 1234 SW 18th Ave, Suite 102Portland, OR 97205T 971-255-1008, F 971-255-1046C 503-871-0715forensictrauma@...

On Dec 6, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:Dear colleagues, I have a clinical question is IDET "Intradiscal electrothermal therapy" being used now for facet joint pain?? I thought as the name implies and my experience supports this procedure is for supposed discogenic pain? I ask because I am a peer reviewer for OHSU's Center for Evidence-based Policy who just sent me their draft "State of Oregon Evidence-based Clinical Guidelines Project Percutaneous Interventions for Low Back Pain proposed guidelines." I believe there is a clear error on the recommendation table.... Any help would be very much appreciated...that means you too Freeman and I don't care if you lecturing in East Mongolia...lol... Cheers, Vern Saboe, DC, DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACOACA Delegate for OregonLobbyist, Oregon Chiropractic Association

[Guest guest]

Yes that is right on the money. The guides also mention radiofrequency denervation in the same box in Table A and it was simply my opinion the authors "OHSU's Center for Evidence-based Policy" simply made a clerical error in the table.

To be clear these guides do not recommend either procedure but that they just got the wording all screwed up and of course this is a function of ancillary staff not "Chou and his band of merry men/women reseachers." I was just making sure I wasn't missing something regarding the use of IDET I can recall the last time I even heard of anyone doing the procedure.....thanks for the input buddy! Vern

Re: "IDET for Facet Joint Pain?"

Vern,

I don't know what they're talking about. The IDET catheter is not designed for use on the facet capsule, which I would think would have the same response to being burned as any other pain sensitive structure - it wouldn't like it. Medial branch neurolysis is the treatment of choice, in which the nerve is burned as it passes near the pedicle. IDET is pretty much a huge flop, and I haven't even heard of anyone doing it. If I was reviewing any guidelines that included IDET as a treatment for anything I would ask to see some convincing evidence (at least the level demanded for chiropractic care) that it was effective.

M

D Freeman PhD MPH DCForensic EpidemiologistAffiliate Professor of EpidemiologyDepartment of Public Health and Preventive Medicine

Oregon Health and Science University School of Medicine

Affiliate Professor of Psychiatry

Department of Psychiatry

Oregon Health and Science University School of Medicine

Adjunct Associate Professor of Forensic Medicine and EpidemiologyInstitute of Forensic Medicine, Faculty of Health SciencesAarhus University Aarhus, DenmarkMailing address: 1234 SW 18th Ave, Suite 102Portland, OR 97205T 971-255-1008, F 971-255-1046C 503-871-0715forensictrauma@...

On Dec 6, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Dear colleagues,

I have a clinical question is IDET "Intradiscal electrothermal therapy" being used now for facet joint pain?? I thought as the name implies and my experience supports this procedure is for supposed discogenic pain?

I ask because I am a peer reviewer for OHSU's Center for Evidence-based Policy who just sent me their draft "State of Oregon Evidence-based Clinical Guidelines Project Percutaneous Interventions for Low Back Pain proposed guidelines." I believe there is a clear error on the recommendation table....

Any help would be very much appreciated...that means you too Freeman and I don't care if you lecturing in East Mongolia...lol...

Cheers,

Vern Saboe, DC, DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO

ACA Delegate for Oregon

Lobbyist, Oregon Chiropractic Association

[Guest guest]

VErn, It is still done at most pain management clinics. Don WHite, RN, DC

In a message dated 12/7/2011 8:03:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, vsaboe@... writes:

IDET I can recall the last time I even heard of anyone doing the procedure