Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

[Guest guest]

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Vern,Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound "fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully,Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

“Sorry, Jamey. You forgot to say, “I love you.” Go back 3 spaces.

I love all you guys...in a hug you briefly with a few fist poundings on your back to clarify it’s manliness way!

This a complex argument, typical of economists and health care.

Like a politician standing in front of a closed factory promising to get it reopened to re-employ the 1200 workers, we have to ask whether a vinyl record factory NEEDS to be reopened.

Very well reasoned symptom discussion though.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...>

Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:44:41 -0700

Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...>

Cc: Bluepearl2001 <bluepearl2001@...>, <Oregondcs >, BERNICE FREEMAN <hbf4747@...>

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with " natural remedies " as a PCP. That does not sound " fun " to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more " natural " , but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of " prevention " which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to " Eat Well " , " Move Well, " and " Think Well " with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, " What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever? " Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, " Eat right, Move right, Think right " . Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll " seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already " Be There " . Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other " HealthCare " group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

" Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above. "

" We are heroes and we save lives every day. "

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

/ div>

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.Jamey Dyson On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Jamey,

Your idea has good merit and why Vern is spending so much time at the legislature. In order for this to occur, we have found tht they need to be educated as to what we ar and how we can do it .... he is WELL underway, enough so tht the OMA is having to up their attention to those 'pesky chiropractors'.

What can you do? Look at your wellness program .... create it as usale right along with your pain-freeing manuevers. That allows patients to 'get it' in spite of themselves. Mine is set up as a 'one-page lesson' program that goes right along with their easing their pain concerns....afterall, all of that stuff is needed in order to 'stabilize their pain concerns'. Patients are provided the information and urged to incorporate the actions in order to 'keep their concerns resolved'. It works beautifully!

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...To: spinetree@...From: drjdyson1@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:35:25 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

I hear you, Joe! What are we talking about here? How would a chiropractic PCP look any different than what we've been doing so far? How would we do anything differently treating a cancer or diabetic or chronic disease or pain patient than we do now? Coming to grips with this question is a huge challenge before us now as Oregon and America struggles to define the new healthcare paradigm. We have to understand it before we can communicate it to anyone else.Here's where I've gotten so far, in a nutshell. We've done a good job of applying the first two of what DD described as the three elements of subluxation: trauma, toxiity, and auto-suggestion. Chestnut has brought direction to the consultation by redefining these elements as: "Move well, Eat well, Think well." We fail to move well if the human frame is not properly aligned and carried in alignment moving through gravity; we fail to clear toxins from our systems by not ingesting nourishingly; but how do we train patients to constantly remind themselves of a proper healthful attitude? What does "thinking well" mean within a chiropractic frame of reference?It's not just chiropractic that's failed to consider the emotional or subjective field of human health. Since the mid-1500s and the Scientific Revolution of Rene Descartes ("I think therefore I am") and Issac Newton ("the father of modern science'), we have intentionally emphasized a material view of reality that sees the truth of science, reason, logic, the natural, the material, and the secular, while at the same time diminishes and even denigrates the truth of religion, faith, intuition, the supernatural, the spiritual and the sacred. We have become, as Einstein said, "Technological giants and moral midgets."The way we think has been the "ghost in the machine" that was not really a part of the whole. When D.D. said that spirit animates matter, he and his chiropractic stuff was dismissed; and we've so far not grasped how our subjective attitudes toward life and health can be integrated into a comprehensive harmony with trauma and toxins.We have early models of "auto-suggestion" at work which give us some directions. Herbert Benson's work on "worry-free meditation" is the simplest of meditative forms. This is the limited extent to which allopathy has accepted meditation into the mainstream of care. Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness seminars have made meditation much more complicated, in order to justify $6000/weekend seminars, without major impact on allopathy. Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD, has summarized Kundalini Yoga and "Medical Meditation" as the third leg of the modern healthcare paradigm (along with surgery and pharmacology), but this invaluable contribution has also gone without much recognition. Within the Cartesian-Newtonian worldview, and within the history of allopathy, there is no room for matter animated by spirit, or the patient's subjective field of consciousness. When allopathy looks at prevention, they move the disease model forward looking for earlier signs of pathology. When chiropractic looks at prevention, we bring a model of optimal human health forward (one that is "moves, eats and thinks well") that enables each person to understand clearly their personal responsibilities for healthful living.Just yesterday, Dr. Feinberg informed us that he is now teaching an abbreviated form of his "informational medicine," which is the most direct form of "auto-suggestion" we have yet to see. His work has been accepted worldwide, but is still not widely practiced within the chiropractic profession. We are just not yet clear on what all this "thinking well" means to us. But new models are appearing and will continue to appear as the challenges are overcome by the opportunities presented, and successful programs are emulated. For me, the history of yoga and meditation are the essence of chiropractic's "thinking well." Both are intimately bound in the health of the human frame: chiropractic via "trauma" repair, and yoga/meditation via alignment in deep relaxation. Chiropractic's approach to trauma repair has been largely passive, and aside from exercise, minimally experiential for the patient. Yoga/meditation's approach is more actively experiential (or within the patient's field of experience or conscious inner life), requiring focused patient mental attention. The practice of yoga/meditation is precisely the "thinking well" component missing in the current chiropractic paradigm, IMO. It is a process of learning about innate human potentials for handling stress more healthfully by being conscious of one's own body moment-to-moment. This is an ancient path and one that calls each person to the experience in order to engage it; we each have the capacity within us for discovering and utilizing these innate potentials. By simplifying meditation, chiropractors can be the teachers of "right thinking," consistent with our foundational beliefs, and consistent with all religious sources that "as we think, so do we become," and increasingly consistent with a body of empirical data supporting the physiology of deep self-healing. On a political level, yoga needs an institutional support base in order to evolve from the current healthcare market place into mainstream American healthcare. Chiropractic needs the benefits of yoga/meditation's strong marketplace appeal to represent it's long-term beliefs in the importance of thinking consistently with optimal health, the importance of proper alignment emotionally and spiritually, and in order to address primary health concerns of modern Americans. Even now states are starting to enforce new laws requiring yoga licensing be regulated. It is evolving as a profession just as massage therapy and other adjuncts have been. Incorporating yoga and it's rich history into the chiropractic institutions at this point would be a wise choice for all concerned, not the least of which would be Americans suffering for lack of such adjunctive practice into our current offerings. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote: I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy. I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed. ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM Vern Saboe Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it. We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP / div> On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote: Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now. To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country. Cheers, Vern Saboe DC DR. CHESTNUT Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend. I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing. Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful. It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight. Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.] That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. "Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above." "We are heroes and we save lives every day." That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.) Amen, over and out. Yours, Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

I am with you Jamey-and I believe Chestnut is also from what I have seen of Chestnut's vision.  I also believe it is the vision of DD and BJ had they known what we now know about lifestyle and its effect on health.  Who is better qualified than us Chiropractors to present a wholistic approach to optimizing health.  We are the masters of the spine and the spine is the a priori organ system in  the human body.

  We are poised to raise some kane in the health care system if we have  the courage and energy to do so.  I for one am ready to lead the charge-or should I say change. Schneider DCPDX

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...> wrote:

 

,I know our roots are in wellness and prevention.  We are DCs - " doctors of cause " , right?  I'm just saying we need to step up and take control of the cause of chronic disease - the heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.  These are the conditions that are killing people and costing the most and it is all lifestyle-caused.  We can step up and be the lifestyle wellness experts that are so desperately needed.  

People have no idea how healthy they can be with what we have to offer.  Let's get back to adjusting people for the wellness aspect (not just pain) and helping them live a healthier lifestyle.  People aren't aware that is even an option with their healthcare!  Chiropractic + Lifestyle can replace much of current general practitioner visits in my opinion.  I would think most people would consider this a new type of PCP.  Right now, it's not even on people's radar screen as an option.

Jamey Dyson, DCOn Apr 18, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Sears wrote:

I hear you, Joe!  What are we talking about here?  How would a chiropractic PCP look any different than what we've been doing so far?  How would we do anything differently treating a cancer or diabetic or chronic disease or pain patient than we do now?  Coming to grips with this question is a huge challenge before us now as Oregon and America struggles to define the new healthcare paradigm.  We have to understand it before we can communicate it to anyone else.

Here's where I've gotten so far, in a nutshell.  We've done a good job of applying the first two of what DD described as the three elements of subluxation: trauma, toxiity, and auto-suggestion.  Chestnut has brought direction to the consultation by redefining these elements as: " Move well, Eat well, Think well. "  We fail to move well if the human frame is not properly aligned and carried in alignment moving through gravity; we fail to clear toxins from our systems by not ingesting nourishingly; but how do we train patients to constantly remind themselves of a proper healthful attitude?  What does " thinking well " mean within a chiropractic frame of reference?

It's not just chiropractic that's failed to consider the emotional or subjective field of human health.  Since the mid-1500s and the Scientific Revolution of Rene Descartes ( " I think therefore I am " ) and Issac Newton ( " the father of modern science'), we have intentionally emphasized a material view of reality that sees the truth of science, reason, logic, the natural, the material, and the secular, while at the same time diminishes and even denigrates the truth of religion, faith, intuition, the supernatural, the spiritual and the sacred.  We have become, as Einstein said, " Technological giants and moral midgets. "

The way we think has been the " ghost in the machine " that was not really a part of the whole.  When D.D. said that spirit animates matter, he and his chiropractic stuff was dismissed; and we've so far not grasped how our subjective attitudes toward life and health can be integrated into a comprehensive harmony with trauma and toxins.

We have early models of " auto-suggestion " at work which give us some directions.  Herbert Benson's work on " worry-free meditation " is the simplest of meditative forms.  This is the limited extent to which allopathy has accepted meditation into the mainstream of care.  Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness seminars have made meditation much more complicated, in order to justify $6000/weekend seminars, without major impact on allopathy.  Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD, has summarized Kundalini Yoga and " Medical Meditation " as the third leg of the modern healthcare paradigm (along with surgery and pharmacology), but this invaluable contribution has also gone without much recognition.  Within the Cartesian-Newtonian worldview, and within the history of allopathy, there is no room for matter animated by spirit, or the patient's subjective field of consciousness.  

When allopathy looks at prevention, they move the disease model forward looking for earlier signs of pathology.  When chiropractic looks at prevention, we bring a model of optimal human health forward (one that is " moves, eats and thinks well " ) that enables each person to understand clearly their personal responsibilities for healthful living.

Just yesterday, Dr. Feinberg informed us that he is now teaching an abbreviated form of his " informational medicine, " which is the most direct form of " auto-suggestion " we have yet to see.  His work has been accepted worldwide, but is still not widely practiced within the chiropractic profession.  We are just not yet clear on what all this " thinking well " means to us.  But new models are appearing and will continue to appear as the challenges are overcome by the opportunities presented, and successful programs are emulated.  

For me, the history of yoga and meditation are the essence of chiropractic's " thinking well. "  Both are intimately bound in the health of the human frame: chiropractic via " trauma " repair, and yoga/meditation via alignment in deep relaxation.  Chiropractic's approach to trauma repair has been largely passive, and aside from exercise, minimally experiential for the patient.  Yoga/meditation's approach is more actively experiential (or within the patient's field of experience or conscious inner life), requiring focused patient mental attention.  The practice of yoga/meditation is precisely the " thinking well " component missing in the current chiropractic paradigm, IMO.  It is a process of learning about innate human potentials for handling stress more healthfully by being conscious of one's own body moment-to-moment.  This is an ancient path and one that calls each person to the experience in order to engage it; we each have the capacity within us for discovering and utilizing these innate potentials.  By simplifying meditation, chiropractors can be the teachers of " right thinking, " consistent with our foundational beliefs, and consistent with all religious sources that " as we think, so do we become, " and increasingly consistent with a body of empirical data supporting the physiology of deep self-healing.  

On a political level, yoga needs an institutional support base in order to evolve from the current healthcare market place into mainstream American healthcare.  Chiropractic needs the benefits of yoga/meditation's strong marketplace appeal to represent it's long-term beliefs in the importance of thinking consistently with optimal health, the importance of proper alignment emotionally and spiritually, and in order to address primary health concerns of modern Americans.  Even now states are starting to enforce new laws requiring yoga licensing be regulated.  It is evolving as a profession just as massage therapy and other adjuncts have been.  Incorporating yoga and it's rich history into the chiropractic institutions at this point would be a wise choice for all concerned, not the least of which would be Americans suffering for lack of such adjunctive practice into our current offerings.

Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255

f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.com

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:   I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

  I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a " completely new type of PCP " is needed.

    ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!   Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively?  If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO.  If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom.  What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!!  Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices?  I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms.  Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care.  We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP.  I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with " natural remedies " as a PCP.  That does not sound " fun " to me at all.  

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients.  I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy.  Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff.  However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery.  Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem.  Yes it is more " natural " , but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.  

We have to move away from that.  We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.  

Respectfully, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP    / div> On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

  Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite.  Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care.  We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that.  In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER.  Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects.  What has been missing is our brand of " prevention " which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes.  Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to " Eat Well " , " Move Well, " and " Think Well " with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style.  However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. 

  With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015.  There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions.  Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun!  Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise.  We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

  To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders.  The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

  Cheers,   Vern Saboe DC

  DR. CHESTNUT  

Okay.  So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now.  ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

  But I thought, " What do they know that I don't know?  What's up with all the Chestnut fever? "   Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL).   But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

  I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'?  Doesn't matter.  It was wonderful.  

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, " Eat right, Move right, Think right " .   Two wings of the same bird:  Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

  Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients.  IMHO.  There is another 'Module ll " seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it.  [Of course, some of you may already " Be There " .  Good for you.  Bravo.]

  That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching.  And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other " HealthCare " group has to offer, bar none.  I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta.  What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. 

  " Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above. " " We are heroes and we save lives every day. "

  That's all I have to say.  (Not too late to sign up for the next module.) Amen, over and out.

  Yours, Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

There is also the danger that if we lose our wellness lifestyle focus, we risk becoming like the osteopaths, when they got the extra training to prescribe drugs, they got lazy about health care and became second tier medical providers. It’s human nature. It could happen...to me.

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Schneider <portlandchiro1@...>

Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:35:16 -0700

Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...>

Cc: Sears <dm.bones@...>, ph Medlin <spinetree@...>, Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...>, Bluepearl2001 <bluepearl2001@...>, <Oregondcs >, BERNICE FREEMAN <hbf4747@...>

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

I am with you Jamey-and I believe Chestnut is also from what I have seen of Chestnut's vision.  I also believe it is the vision of DD and BJ had they known what we now know about lifestyle and its effect on health.  Who is better qualified than us Chiropractors to present a wholistic approach to optimizing health.  We are the masters of the spine and the spine is the a priori organ system in  the human body.

  We are poised to raise some kane in the health care system if we have  the courage and energy to do so.  I for one am ready to lead the charge-or should I say change.

Schneider DC

PDX

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...> wrote:

 

,

I know our roots are in wellness and prevention.  We are DCs - " doctors of cause " , right?  I'm just saying we need to step up and take control of the cause of chronic disease - the heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.  These are the conditions that are killing people and costing the most and it is all lifestyle-caused.  We can step up and be the lifestyle wellness experts that are so desperately needed.  

People have no idea how healthy they can be with what we have to offer.  Let's get back to adjusting people for the wellness aspect (not just pain) and helping them live a healthier lifestyle.  People aren't aware that is even an option with their healthcare!  Chiropractic + Lifestyle can replace much of current general practitioner visits in my opinion.  I would think most people would consider this a new type of PCP.  Right now, it's not even on people's radar screen as an option.

Jamey Dyson, DC

On Apr 18, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Sears wrote:

I hear you, Joe!  What are we talking about here?  How would a chiropractic PCP look any different than what we've been doing so far?  How would we do anything differently treating a cancer or diabetic or chronic disease or pain patient than we do now?  Coming to grips with this question is a huge challenge before us now as Oregon and America struggles to define the new healthcare paradigm.  We have to understand it before we can communicate it to anyone else.

Here's where I've gotten so far, in a nutshell.  We've done a good job of applying the first two of what DD described as the three elements of subluxation: trauma, toxiity, and auto-suggestion.  Chestnut has brought direction to the consultation by redefining these elements as: " Move well, Eat well, Think well. "  We fail to move well if the human frame is not properly aligned and carried in alignment moving through gravity; we fail to clear toxins from our systems by not ingesting nourishingly; but how do we train patients to constantly remind themselves of a proper healthful attitude?  What does " thinking well " mean within a chiropractic frame of reference?

It's not just chiropractic that's failed to consider the emotional or subjective field of human health.  Since the mid-1500s and the Scientific Revolution of Rene Descartes ( " I think therefore I am " ) and Issac Newton ( " the father of modern science'), we have intentionally emphasized a material view of reality that sees the truth of science, reason, logic, the natural, the material, and the secular, while at the same time diminishes and even denigrates the truth of religion, faith, intuition, the supernatural, the spiritual and the sacred.  We have become, as Einstein said, " Technological giants and moral midgets. "

The way we think has been the " ghost in the machine " that was not really a part of the whole.  When D.D. said that spirit animates matter, he and his chiropractic stuff was dismissed; and we've so far not grasped how our subjective attitudes toward life and health can be integrated into a comprehensive harmony with trauma and toxins.

We have early models of " auto-suggestion " at work which give us some directions.  Herbert Benson's work on " worry-free meditation " is the simplest of meditative forms.  This is the limited extent to which allopathy has accepted meditation into the mainstream of care.  Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness seminars have made meditation much more complicated, in order to justify $6000/weekend seminars, without major impact on allopathy.  Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD, has summarized Kundalini Yoga and " Medical Meditation " as the third leg of the modern healthcare paradigm (along with surgery and pharmacology), but this invaluable contribution has also gone without much recognition.  Within the Cartesian-Newtonian worldview, and within the history of allopathy, there is no room for matter animated by spirit, or the patient's subjective field of consciousness.  

When allopathy looks at prevention, they move the disease model forward looking for earlier signs of pathology.  When chiropractic looks at prevention, we bring a model of optimal human health forward (one that is " moves, eats and thinks well " ) that enables each person to understand clearly their personal responsibilities for healthful living.

Just yesterday, Dr. Feinberg informed us that he is now teaching an abbreviated form of his " informational medicine, " which is the most direct form of " auto-suggestion " we have yet to see.  His work has been accepted worldwide, but is still not widely practiced within the chiropractic profession.  We are just not yet clear on what all this " thinking well " means to us.  But new models are appearing and will continue to appear as the challenges are overcome by the opportunities presented, and successful programs are emulated.  

For me, the history of yoga and meditation are the essence of chiropractic's " thinking well. "  

Both are intimately bound in the health of the human frame: chiropractic via " trauma " repair, and yoga/meditation via alignment in deep relaxation.  Chiropractic's approach to trauma repair has been largely passive, and aside from exercise, minimally experiential for the patient.  Yoga/meditation's approach is more actively experiential (or within the patient's field of experience or conscious inner life), requiring focused patient mental attention.  The practice of yoga/meditation is precisely the " thinking well " component missing in the current chiropractic paradigm, IMO.  It is a process of learning about innate human potentials for handling stress more healthfully by being conscious of one's own body moment-to-moment.  This is an ancient path and one that calls each person to the experience in order to engage it; we each have the capacity within us for discovering and utilizing these innate potentials.  By simplifying meditation, chiropractors can be the teachers of " right thinking, " consistent with our foundational beliefs, and consistent with all religious sources that " as we think, so do we become, " and increasingly consistent with a body of empirical data supporting the physiology of deep self-healing.  

On a political level, yoga needs an institutional support base in order to evolve from the current healthcare market place into mainstream American healthcare.  Chiropractic needs the benefits of yoga/meditation's strong marketplace appeal to represent it's long-term beliefs in the importance of thinking consistently with optimal health, the importance of proper alignment emotionally and spiritually, and in order to address primary health concerns of modern Americans.  Even now states are starting to enforce new laws requiring yoga licensing be regulated.  It is evolving as a profession just as massage therapy and other adjuncts have been.  Incorporating yoga and it's rich history into the chiropractic institutions at this point would be a wise choice for all concerned, not the least of which would be Americans suffering for lack of such adjunctive practice into our current offerings.

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

v: 503-225-0255 <tel:503-225-0255>

f: 503-525-6902 <tel:503-525-6902>

www.docbones.com <http://www.docbones.com>

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

 

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

 

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a " completely new type of PCP " is needed.

 

 

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson <mailto:drjdyson1@...>

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe <mailto:vsaboe@...>

Cc: Bluepearl2001 <mailto:bluepearl2001@...> ; <mailto:Oregondcs > ; BERNICE FREEMAN <mailto:hbf4747@...>

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

 

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively?  If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO.  If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom.  What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!!  Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices?  I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms.  Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care.  We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP.  I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with " natural remedies " as a PCP.  That does not sound " fun " to me at all.  

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients.  I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy.  Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff.  However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery.  Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem.  Yes it is more " natural " , but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.  

We have to move away from that.  We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.  

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP   

/ div>

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

 

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite.  Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care.  We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that.  In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER.  Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects.  What has been missing is our brand of " prevention " which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes.  Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to " Eat Well " , " Move Well, " and " Think Well " with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style.  However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. 

 

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015.  There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions.  Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun!  Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise.  We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

 

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders.  The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

 

Cheers,

 

Vern Saboe DC

 

DR. CHESTNUT

 

Okay.  So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now.  ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

 

But I thought, " What do they know that I don't know?  What's up with all the Chestnut fever? "   Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL).   But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

 

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'?  Doesn't matter.  It was wonderful.

 

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, " Eat right, Move right, Think right " .   Two wings of the same bird:  Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

 

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients.  IMHO.  There is another 'Module ll " seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it.  [Of course, some of you may already " Be There " .  Good for you.  Bravo.]

 

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching.  And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other " HealthCare " group has to offer, bar none.  I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta.  What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. 

 

" Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above. "

" We are heroes and we save lives every day. "

 

That's all I have to say.  (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

 

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

--

Schneider DC

PDX

[Guest guest]

And yet they sit MUCH further up the bus than us.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Abrahamson

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:08 AM

Schneider ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Sears ; ph Medlin ; Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

There is also the danger that if we lose our wellness lifestyle focus, we risk becoming like the osteopaths, when they got the extra training to prescribe drugs, they got lazy about health care and became second tier medical providers. It’s human nature. It could happen...to me. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Schneider <portlandchiro1@...>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:35:16 -0700Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...>Cc: Sears <dm.bones@...>, ph Medlin <spinetree@...>, Vern Saboe <vsaboe@...>, Bluepearl2001 <bluepearl2001@...>, <Oregondcs >, BERNICE FREEMAN <hbf4747@...>Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! I am with you Jamey-and I believe Chestnut is also from what I have seen of Chestnut's vision. I also believe it is the vision of DD and BJ had they known what we now know about lifestyle and its effect on health. Who is better qualified than us Chiropractors to present a wholistic approach to optimizing health. We are the masters of the spine and the spine is the a priori organ system in the human body. We are poised to raise some kane in the health care system if we have the courage and energy to do so. I for one am ready to lead the charge-or should I say change. Schneider DCPDXOn Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Jamey Dyson <drjdyson1@...> wrote:

,I know our roots are in wellness and prevention. We are DCs - "doctors of cause", right? I'm just saying we need to step up and take control of the cause of chronic disease - the heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. These are the conditions that are killing people and costing the most and it is all lifestyle-caused. We can step up and be the lifestyle wellness experts that are so desperately needed. People have no idea how healthy they can be with what we have to offer. Let's get back to adjusting people for the wellness aspect (not just pain) and helping them live a healthier lifestyle. People aren't aware that is even an option with their healthcare! Chiropractic + Lifestyle can replace much of current general practitioner visits in my opinion. I would think most people would consider this a new type of PCP. Right now, it's not even on people's radar screen as an option.Jamey Dyson, DCOn Apr 18, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Sears wrote:

I hear you, Joe! What are we talking about here? How would a chiropractic PCP look any different than what we've been doing so far? How would we do anything differently treating a cancer or diabetic or chronic disease or pain patient than we do now? Coming to grips with this question is a huge challenge before us now as Oregon and America struggles to define the new healthcare paradigm. We have to understand it before we can communicate it to anyone else.Here's where I've gotten so far, in a nutshell. We've done a good job of applying the first two of what DD described as the three elements of subluxation: trauma, toxiity, and auto-suggestion. Chestnut has brought direction to the consultation by redefining these elements as: "Move well, Eat well, Think well." We fail to move well if the human frame is not properly aligned and carried in alignment moving through gravity; we fail to clear toxins from our systems by not ingesting nourishingly; but how do we train patients to constantly remind themselves of a proper healthful attitude? What does "thinking well" mean within a chiropractic frame of reference?It's not just chiropractic that's failed to consider the emotional or subjective field of human health. Since the mid-1500s and the Scientific Revolution of Rene Descartes ("I think therefore I am") and Issac Newton ("the father of modern science'), we have intentionally emphasized a material view of reality that sees the truth of science, reason, logic, the natural, the material, and the secular, while at the same time diminishes and even denigrates the truth of religion, faith, intuition, the supernatural, the spiritual and the sacred. We have become, as Einstein said, "Technological giants and moral midgets."The way we think has been the "ghost in the machine" that was not really a part of the whole. When D.D. said that spirit animates matter, he and his chiropractic stuff was dismissed; and we've so far not grasped how our subjective attitudes toward life and health can be integrated into a comprehensive harmony with trauma and toxins.We have early models of "auto-suggestion" at work which give us some directions. Herbert Benson's work on "worry-free meditation" is the simplest of meditative forms. This is the limited extent to which allopathy has accepted meditation into the mainstream of care. Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness seminars have made meditation much more complicated, in order to justify $6000/weekend seminars, without major impact on allopathy. Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD, has summarized Kundalini Yoga and "Medical Meditation" as the third leg of the modern healthcare paradigm (along with surgery and pharmacology), but this invaluable contribution has also gone without much recognition. Within the Cartesian-Newtonian worldview, and within the history of allopathy, there is no room for matter animated by spirit, or the patient's subjective field of consciousness. When allopathy looks at prevention, they move the disease model forward looking for earlier signs of pathology. When chiropractic looks at prevention, we bring a model of optimal human health forward (one that is "moves, eats and thinks well") that enables each person to understand clearly their personal responsibilities for healthful living.Just yesterday, Dr. Feinberg informed us that he is now teaching an abbreviated form of his "informational medicine," which is the most direct form of "auto-suggestion" we have yet to see. His work has been accepted worldwide, but is still not widely practiced within the chiropractic profession. We are just not yet clear on what all this "thinking well" means to us. But new models are appearing and will continue to appear as the challenges are overcome by the opportunities presented, and successful programs are emulated. For me, the history of yoga and meditation are the essence of chiropractic's "thinking well." Both are intimately bound in the health of the human frame: chiropractic via "trauma" repair, and yoga/meditation via alignment in deep relaxation. Chiropractic's approach to trauma repair has been largely passive, and aside from exercise, minimally experiential for the patient. Yoga/meditation's approach is more actively experiential (or within the patient's field of experience or conscious inner life), requiring focused patient mental attention. The practice of yoga/meditation is precisely the "thinking well" component missing in the current chiropractic paradigm, IMO. It is a process of learning about innate human potentials for handling stress more healthfully by being conscious of one's own body moment-to-moment. This is an ancient path and one that calls each person to the experience in order to engage it; we each have the capacity within us for discovering and utilizing these innate potentials. By simplifying meditation, chiropractors can be the teachers of "right thinking," consistent with our foundational beliefs, and consistent with all religious sources that "as we think, so do we become," and increasingly consistent with a body of empirical data supporting the physiology of deep self-healing. On a political level, yoga needs an institutional support base in order to evolve from the current healthcare market place into mainstream American healthcare. Chiropractic needs the benefits of yoga/meditation's strong marketplace appeal to represent it's long-term beliefs in the importance of thinking consistently with optimal health, the importance of proper alignment emotionally and spiritually, and in order to address primary health concerns of modern Americans. Even now states are starting to enforce new laws requiring yoga licensing be regulated. It is evolving as a profession just as massage therapy and other adjuncts have been. Incorporating yoga and it's rich history into the chiropractic institutions at this point would be a wise choice for all concerned, not the least of which would be Americans suffering for lack of such adjunctive practice into our current offerings. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255 <tel:503-225-0255> f: 503-525-6902 <tel:503-525-6902> www.docbones.com <http://www.docbones.com> On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy. I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed. ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson <mailto:drjdyson1@...> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM Vern Saboe <mailto:vsaboe@...> Cc: Bluepearl2001 <mailto:bluepearl2001@...> ; <mailto:Oregondcs > ; BERNICE FREEMAN <mailto:hbf4747@...> Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it. We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP / div> On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now. To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country. Cheers, Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend. I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful. It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight. Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.] That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. "Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above." "We are heroes and we save lives every day." That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.) Amen, over and out. Yours, Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC -- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

I know that Sunny, but I'm just talking from the perspective of a PCP. A PCP is a gatekeeper. Perhaps a wellness physician should be someone a PCP refers to for management???

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:19 AM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Joe,  why wouldn't you want the holistic 'quarterback doc'  playing the PCP position?  It seems like the logical position for this type of wellness doc to  play.  He should be ideally directing the folks to specialist as needed.  He is the one who has the best 'big picture' of what the patient needs.  I see the  DC as the a great PCP-if he so chooses to be.  If not he can always just specialize in soft tissue or spinal problems.

Schneider DCPDXOn Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:42 AM, ph Medlin <spinetree@...> wrote:

 

I know that Sunny, but I'm just talking from the perspective of a PCP.  A PCP is a gatekeeper. Perhaps a wellness physician should be someone a PCP refers to for management???

 

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:19 AM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

 

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe.   People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality.  Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home.      Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com 

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...

CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea.  It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for. 

 

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition?    If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....!   My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency!  It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns.    Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com 

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...

From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! 

Jamey,

 

I gotchya,

 

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option.   I just get confused with the term " wellness chiropractor. "   

 

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

 

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones,  etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

 

Are we really best suited for this type of care? 

 

 

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

  Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care.  Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors.  I'm guilty of it too with patients.  It's easy.  There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years.  However, are we looked at as a PCP option?  That is what I'm talking about.  We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause.  Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

  

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

 

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a " completely new type of PCP " is needed.

 

 

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

 

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively?  If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO.  If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom.  What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!!  Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices?  I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms.  Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care.  We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP.  I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with " natural remedies " as a PCP.  That does not sound " fun " to me at all.  

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients.  I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy.  Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff.  However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery.  Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem.  Yes it is more " natural " , but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.  

We have to move away from that.  We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.  

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP   

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

 

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite.  Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care.  We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that.  In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER.  Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects.  What has been missing is our brand of " prevention " which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes.  Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to " Eat Well " , " Move Well, " and " Think Well " with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style.  However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. 

 

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015.  There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions.  Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun!  Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise.  We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

 

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders.  The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

 

Cheers,

 

Vern Saboe DC

 

DR. CHESTNUT

 

Okay.  So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now.  ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

 

But I thought, " What do they know that I don't know?  What's up with all the Chestnut fever? "   Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL).   But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

 

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'?  Doesn't matter.  It was wonderful.

 

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, " Eat right, Move right, Think right " .   Two wings of the same bird:  Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

 

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients.  IMHO.  There is another 'Module ll " seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it.  [Of course, some of you may already " Be There " .  Good for you.  Bravo.]

 

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching.  And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other " HealthCare " group has to offer, bar none.  I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta.  What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. 

 

" Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above. "

" We are heroes and we save lives every day. "

 

That's all I have to say.  (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

 

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Yes, Dr. Seitz is absolutely correct. We need to get paid for our counseling/

education time with patients!

Bill Hartje, DC, MS

DR. CHESTNUT

 

Okay.  So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for

a while now.  ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress

for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of

late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

 

But I thought, " What do they know that I don't know?  What's up with all the

Chestnut fever? "   Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect

him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he

knows--LOL).   But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen

to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

 

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both

life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the

word 'changing'?  Doesn't matter.  It was wonderful.

 

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more

profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it,

" Eat right, Move right, Think right " .   Two wings of the same bird:  Both

have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order

to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

 

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on

an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their

lives, their practices, their families and their patients.  IMHO.  There is

another 'Module ll " seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can

jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just

that you consider it.  [Of course, some of you may already " Be There " .  Good

for you.  Bravo.]

 

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman,

with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already

embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching.  And frankly, at its

roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic

and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs,

without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without

injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other

" HealthCare " group has to offer, bar none.  I guess I always 'knew

that'...sorta.  What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a

renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also

the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. 

 

" Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above. "

" We are heroes and we save lives every day. "

 

That's all I have to say.  (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

 

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Seems to me a PCP is a person who 1) gets a person to a state of wellness (through education, supervision, guidance, etc) and 2) keeps them that way (through inspiration, persistence, consistency, etc.) ........ ???

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: drjdyson1@...; skrndc1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:42:30 -0700

I know that Sunny, but I'm just talking from the perspective of a PCP. A PCP is a gatekeeper. Perhaps a wellness physician should be someone a PCP refers to for management???

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:19 AM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Oh I totally agree with you! Counselilng is such a bit part of what we do ... at least what I do .... We give away so SO much that it is just mind boggling at moments .....not to mention maddening and angering and frustrating .... but, I don't seem to be able to NOT do the counselilng when it is necessary .... so I just swallow it. Maybe that's why I tend to obesity.... ya think?

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:43:33 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/docvisit.htmPhysician office visitsNumber of visits: 956 millionNumber of visits per 100 persons: 320.1Percent of visits made to primary care physicians: 60.5%Most frequent principal reason for visit: general medical examinationMost commonly diagnosed condition: essential hypertensionSource: National Ambulatory Medical Care Survey: 2008 Summary Tables, tables 1, 9, 13...the best way to treat essential hypertension is with diet and lifestyle. Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

All,

Maybe I'm not expressing myself adequately. I think we can do wonders by professing wellness and providing chiropractic care. Rarely is 98940 etc. enough on ANY patient. However, to be recognized as a true PCP, we do have to have an answer for the various ailments that will present. I for one want medication if I go to the PCP with Strept infection for example. Our tool box is limited in how we can acutely treat many conditions that present in the average PCP office. Wellness at that point in time perhaps isn't relevant.

This is why I touted the "muskuloskeletal PCP". We can have immediate effects on their Chief Complaint and give them the wellness discussion in the process.

If the system needs us, I would be happy to look at these patients and say "whoa, boo boo, you go here, or there or, this is your next step", but it seems that it may be an unnecessary step a lot of the time.

Just kind of talking this thing out a bit. I'm not a guy who racks and cracks and has 3 minute visits. Quite the contrary.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: BRIAN SEITZ

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:43 AM

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

There are options for billing counseling time, particularly when the counseling teaches directly how to work with the body to maximize self-healing potentials consistent with chiropractic philosophy and evolving literature based evidence, regardless of the diagnosis. This is the real economic advantage, having a protocol that is structured, accessible and outcome testable, instead of having a "lifestyle" handout or rap.Over the past decade, billing physician-attended therapeutic exercise codes for teaching yoga/meditation as rehab for PIP or chronic disease conditions has resulted in third-party payments averaging just over $160/hour per patient, in office. When several patients were undergoing the training, I grouped them in hourly classes and met all of them at one time, for an average of eight weeks of training. Patient/students were each charted and billed separately at the above rate per hour for the sessions. Classes, to date, have had up to seven patients per session, resulting in my first ever four-figure earned hourly income.One can't teach what one doesn't know, so it's necessary to undergo some preparation for "counseling" on this level, but that is certainly doable. If up to 90% of all doctor's visit are (arguably) caused by poorly handled stress, including costly chronic diseases, then teaching how to personally handle stress well is a no-brainer. Again, we do well at passively treating patients, but still are learning how to teach patients to do for themselves at much higher levels of healthful functioning. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 19, 2011, at 9:43 AM, BRIAN SEITZ wrote: Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700 That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for. ph Medlin D.C. From: Sunny Kierstyn Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Jamey, I gotchya, Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor." I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues. I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff. Are we really best suited for this type of care? ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM ph Medlin Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively. Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently. Jamey Dyson On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote: I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy. I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed. ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM Vern Saboe Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it. We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote: Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now. To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country. Cheers, Vern Saboe DC DR. CHESTNUT Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend. I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing. Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful. It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight. Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.] That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. "Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above." "We are heroes and we save lives every day." That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.) Amen, over and out. Yours, Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

,

That's all well and good ... but a good 1/2 of my appointment time is spent counselilng ..... why should I have to make special arrangement for blocked off time when I can deliver the message JUST AS WELL in a tight, concise and clear format?! Then, we all get to go home! How is that not recompenseable?

Thanks for letting me vent!

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

CC: To: dcdocbrian@...From: dm.bones@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:06:11 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

There are options for billing counseling time, particularly when the counseling teaches directly how to work with the body to maximize self-healing potentials consistent with chiropractic philosophy and evolving literature based evidence, regardless of the diagnosis. This is the real economic advantage, having a protocol that is structured, accessible and outcome testable, instead of having a "lifestyle" handout or rap.

Over the past decade, billing physician-attended therapeutic exercise codes for teaching yoga/meditation as rehab for PIP or chronic disease conditions has resulted in third-party payments averaging just over $160/hour per patient, in office. When several patients were undergoing the training, I grouped them in hourly classes and met all of them at one time, for an average of eight weeks of training. Patient/students were each charted and billed separately at the above rate per hour for the sessions. Classes, to date, have had up to seven patients per session, resulting in my first ever four-figure earned hourly income.

One can't teach what one doesn't know, so it's necessary to undergo some preparation for "counseling" on this level, but that is certainly doable. If up to 90% of all doctor's visit are (arguably) caused by poorly handled stress, including costly chronic diseases, then teaching how to personally handle stress well is a no-brainer. Again, we do well at passively treating patients, but still are learning how to teach patients to do for themselves at much higher levels of healthful functioning.

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

v: 503-225-0255

f: 503-525-6902

www.docbones.com

On Apr 19, 2011, at 9:43 AM, BRIAN SEITZ wrote:

Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

I'm sure that our "counseling" re diet and lifestyle are recompense-worthy. It's just that handouts have not been shown to significantly change behavior (generally speaking), and are not seen as reimbursable for time spent with patient. I'm sure ways will be figured out, but it's not too profitable at present.On the other hand, teaching patients how to be present in the moment listening to their own breathing while relaxing in aligned postures, makes the "counseling" experiential throughout their whole body and mind, promotes insight into their own physical complaints and how to intervene appropriately, shows them how to work with the NS and RespS to achieve deep levels of relaxation at their own critical skeletal angles, and nudges their thinking toward their own inner resources for their own healing. Hey, that's worth sticking around for, huh? The rate-limiting factor in "thinking well" is a patient's hesitancy to undertake personal responsibility for their own well-being. The better organized that motivation for patients, the more benefit they derive, and the more valuable the motivating intervention becomes to all concerned. These are all early models that we're struggling to translate into better overall care for our patients, now within a PCP frame of reference. Teaching personal responsibility for one's own health is the critical factor in fulfilling DD Palmer's third element of subluxation opening the gates fully to innate healing: auto-suggestion. Other protocols which are accessible, effective and reproduce-able across physicians will surely evolve as well. Venting is good! Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 19, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Sunny Kierstyn wrote:, That's all well and good ... but a good 1/2 of my appointment time is spent counselilng ..... why should I have to make special arrangement for blocked off time when I can deliver the message JUST AS WELL in a tight, concise and clear format?! Then, we all get to go home! How is that not recompenseable? Thanks for letting me vent! Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com CC: To: dcdocbrian@...From: dm.bones@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:06:11 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!There are options for billing counseling time, particularly when the counseling teaches directly how to work with the body to maximize self-healing potentials consistent with chiropractic philosophy and evolving literature based evidence, regardless of the diagnosis. This is the real economic advantage, having a protocol that is structured, accessible and outcome testable, instead of having a "lifestyle" handout or rap.Over the past decade, billing physician-attended therapeutic exercise codes for teaching yoga/meditation as rehab for PIP or chronic disease conditions has resulted in third-party payments averaging just over $160/hour per patient, in office. When several patients were undergoing the training, I grouped them in hourly classes and met all of them at one time, for an average of eight weeks of training. Patient/students were each charted and billed separately at the above rate per hour for the sessions. Classes, to date, have had up to seven patients per session, resulting in my first ever four-figure earned hourly income.One can't teach what one doesn't know, so it's necessary to undergo some preparation for "counseling" on this level, but that is certainly doable. If up to 90% of all doctor's visit are (arguably) caused by poorly handled stress, including costly chronic diseases, then teaching how to personally handle stress well is a no-brainer. Again, we do well at passively treating patients, but still are learning how to teach patients to do for themselves at much higher levels of healthful functioning. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 19, 2011, at 9:43 AM, BRIAN SEITZ wrote: Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ;hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: spinetree@...skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ;hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for. ph Medlin D.C.From: Sunny KierstynSent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PMjoe medlin ; Jamey DysonCc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DCSubject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ;hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Jamey, I gotchya, Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor." I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues. I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff. Are we really best suited for this type of care? ph Medlin D.C.From: Jamey DysonSent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AMph MedlinCc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMANSubject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.Jamey Dyson On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy. I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed. ph Medlin D.C.From: Jamey DysonSent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AMVern SaboeCc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMANSubject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully,Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote: Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now. To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country. Cheers, Vern Saboe DC DR. CHESTNUT Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend. I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful. It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight. Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.] That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. "Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above.""We are heroes and we save lives every day." That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)Amen, over and out. Yours,Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

Well, Joe .... stretch your mind a bit : there are WONDERFUL compounds that will attach & RESOLVE that strep: coconut oil, monolaurin, garlic ... and yes, microcurrent. We already have a VERY effective arsenal at our fingertips .... you just need to stop believeing the allopathic line about neutricals being ineffective. These things are VERY effective: when they are used appropriately.

The times I have referred a person to their allopath/ER usually had more to do with their personal belief systems than with my lack of effective medicines or modalities.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

; dcdocbrian@...From: spinetree@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:05:46 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

All,

Maybe I'm not expressing myself adequately. I think we can do wonders by professing wellness and providing chiropractic care. Rarely is 98940 etc. enough on ANY patient. However, to be recognized as a true PCP, we do have to have an answer for the various ailments that will present. I for one want medication if I go to the PCP with Strept infection for example. Our tool box is limited in how we can acutely treat many conditions that present in the average PCP office. Wellness at that point in time perhaps isn't relevant.

This is why I touted the "muskuloskeletal PCP". We can have immediate effects on their Chief Complaint and give them the wellness discussion in the process.

If the system needs us, I would be happy to look at these patients and say "whoa, boo boo, you go here, or there or, this is your next step", but it seems that it may be an unnecessary step a lot of the time.

Just kind of talking this thing out a bit. I'm not a guy who racks and cracks and has 3 minute visits. Quite the contrary.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: BRIAN SEITZ

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:43 AM

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700

That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM

joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson

Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC

Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com

drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Jamey,

I gotchya,

Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor."

I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues.

I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff.

Are we really best suited for this type of care?

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM

ph Medlin

Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively.

Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently.

Jamey Dyson

On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote:

I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy.

I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: Jamey Dyson

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

Vern Saboe

Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN

Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

Vern,

Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it.

We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all.

I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment.

We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons.

Respectfully,

Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP

On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote:

Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects.

With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now.

To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country.

Cheers,

Vern Saboe DC

DR. CHESTNUT

Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend

But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend.

I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing.

Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful.

It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight.

Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.]

That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor.

"Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above."

"We are heroes and we save lives every day."

That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.)

Amen, over and out.

Yours,

Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC

[Guest guest]

We use gateway EDI.Thaddeus Gala DC Complete Care Chiropractic & Massage 21885 Hwy 62PO Box 866 Shady Cove, OR 97539

(541) 878-HEALTH (4325) (541) 830-HEALTH (4325) (541) 941-2409 CellCC: To: dcdocbrian@...From: dm.bones@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:06:11 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!

There are options for billing counseling time, particularly when the counseling teaches directly how to work with the body to maximize self-healing potentials consistent with chiropractic philosophy and evolving literature based evidence, regardless of the diagnosis. This is the real economic advantage, having a protocol that is structured, accessible and outcome testable, instead of having a "lifestyle" handout or rap.Over the past decade, billing physician-attended therapeutic exercise codes for teaching yoga/meditation as rehab for PIP or chronic disease conditions has resulted in third-party payments averaging just over $160/hour per patient, in office. When several patients were undergoing the training, I grouped them in hourly classes and met all of them at one time, for an average of eight weeks of training. Patient/students were each charted and billed separately at the above rate per hour for the sessions. Classes, to date, have had up to seven patients per session, resulting in my first ever four-figure earned hourly income.One can't teach what one doesn't know, so it's necessary to undergo some preparation for "counseling" on this level, but that is certainly doable. If up to 90% of all doctor's visit are (arguably) caused by poorly handled stress, including costly chronic diseases, then teaching how to personally handle stress well is a no-brainer. Again, we do well at passively treating patients, but still are learning how to teach patients to do for themselves at much higher levels of healthful functioning. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209v: 503-225-0255f: 503-525-6902www.docbones.comOn Apr 19, 2011, at 9:43 AM, BRIAN SEITZ wrote: Sunny, I would agree with you. A lot of my patients flat out tell me they DON't want to take drugs! But many do want relief, and if the drugs (in conjunction with my care) work for the short-term, so be it. Transitioning to a healthy lifestyle is the long-term goal. And remember, I work with MD's and DO's so most of my patients do have pharmaceutical management of some type! The big thing is WE NEED TO GET PAID FOR OUR TIME COUNSELING!!!!! Sorry to yell but 98940 just doesn't cut it when you spend time talking with your patients! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724spinetree@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...From: skrndc1@...Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:18 -0700Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Things seem a bit more positive to me than that, Joe. People ARE turning away from the 'don't worry about anything, we have a pill to fix whatever ails ya' mentality. Yes, some resistance is still there but by and large, people are beginning to understand it starts at home ..... I am finding a lot of people interested in what they can do at home. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: spinetree@...To: skrndc1@...; drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; ; hbf4747@...Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know!Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:59:19 -0700 That’s the problem. Educating on health and nutrition is NOT a panacea. It certainly won't have much affect on a lot of things people seek care from a primary for. ph Medlin D.C. From: Sunny Kierstyn Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:54 PM joe medlin ; Jamey Dyson Cc: Vern Saboe ; bluepearl2001@... ; ; Herb Freeman DC Subject: RE: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Hey Joe, Arent we the one's teaching health and nutrition?! ..... where do you think those stones come from if it is not screwy nutrition? If you dont want 'em, defintely send 'em onward .....! My patients LOVE it when they are steered away from that tendency! It is such a joy to watch people thrive away from those old patterns. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com drjdyson1@...CC: vsaboe@...; bluepearl2001@...; Oregondcs ; hbf4747@...From: spinetree@...Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:54:47 -0700Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Jamey, I gotchya, Chiropractors should indeed be considered a viable PCP option. I just get confused with the term "wellness chiropractor." I however, have no problem being a PCP for back pain or muskuloskeletal issues. I'll make sure to refer to you all of the sore throats, anal warts, inguinal hernias, varicose veins, visual disturbances, bleeding sores, kidney stones, etc. etc. cuz, I became a chiropractor so I wouldn't have to mess with this stuff. Are we really best suited for this type of care? ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:35 AM ph Medlin Cc: Vern Saboe ; Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Because there is this idea that to be a real PCP, you have to provide pain relief care. Sure we can help people feel better with their pain, but that has become the goal of care for most patients and their doctors. I'm guilty of it too with patients. It's easy. There is this idea that if a wellness chiropractor is going to be a PCP, then we will need to learn some type of extra stuff in the realm of treating acute or chronic symptoms aggressively. Of course chiropractors have been doing this for years. However, are we looked at as a PCP option? That is what I'm talking about. We need to define a new type of PCP in the public and government that deals with getting to the cause. Chiropractors are musculoskeletal back pain doctors currently. Jamey Dyson On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, ph Medlin wrote: I don't believe that a Wellness Lifestyle PCP is new at all. Applying adjustments to the spine, advising on appropriate diet and exercise has been the basis of Chiropractic treatment since the beginning of time. Many of us got into the profession because of it's holistic philosophy. I'm just not sure how we are going to get away from treating symptoms to some degree, particularly spinal pain, and why would we want to? We are extremely effective. Can we not treat their complaints while advising on Wellness? Just not clear why a "completely new type of PCP" is needed. ph Medlin D.C. From: Jamey Dyson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM Vern Saboe Cc: Bluepearl2001 ; ; BERNICE FREEMAN Subject: Re: F.Y.I., coming to your defense....all in a day's work...don't ya know! Vern, Why do we need to treat acute symptoms or chronic illness symptoms aggressively? If it is traumatic or a life-threatening infection, then go to an MD/DO. If it is anything else, then I WANT my patient to feel the symptom. What great feedback for the patient that their lifestyle needs to change!!! Why would I want to turn off the EXACT mechanism within their body (PAIN) that is telling them to change their environment and their choices? I want to work with the intelligence of the body, not against it. We need PCP Chiropractors who are NOT treating symptoms. Chiro PCPs need to be experts at understanding physiology and the POWER of lifestyle and the POWER of chiropractic care. We need a completely new type of PCP... a Wellness Lifestyle PCP. I certainly don't want to learn how to diagnose and treat with "natural remedies" as a PCP. That does not sound " fun" to me at all. I want to ACTUALLY get to the cause of the problem with patients. I say leave the NDs alone and let them run around treating physiological symptoms with their hormone therapy, their prolotherapy, and their neurotransmitter therapy. Sure, symptoms improve with that stuff. However, patient's are going to get just as tired of doing that routine as taking drugs and getting surgery. Patients will realize that stuff doesn't really fix the problem. Yes it is more "natural", but it is still under the allopathic model of treatment. We have to move away from that. We have to base this new PCP on what works at getting to the cause of chronic illness based on the SCIENCE of physiology and allostasis (stress load), not market place financial reasons. Respectfully, Jamey Dyson, DC, CCWP On Apr 17, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Vern Saboe wrote: Love ya Herb but not true as per the University of Western States rather just the opposite. Key to true health care reform is not just changing how we fund health care but how we deliver health care. We must move away from the current medical model of crisis care and it's over reliance on drug therapy and surgery and the chiropractic profession is in a perfect position to do just that. In addition we must focus of course on prevention but prevention in the minds of the medicine-men is screening individuals as in screening individuals who have known chronic disease to make sure they are being managed properly so they don't fall into crisis and end up in the ER. Prevention in the medical world is also screening asymptomatic individuals for unrecognized disease so they start treatment (usually pharmacology) these are not inappropriate except when there is the over-reliance on drug therapy when there are evidence based natural remedies which are just as effective if not more effective without the myriad of side affects. What has been missing is our brand of "prevention" which is educating our patients in lay terms both to the need for positive life style changes as well as how to start making those changes. Informing our patients is lay terms they can understand on the why and how to "Eat Well", "Move Well," and "Think Well" with the goal of empowering our patients to take ownership of their health and wellness and in so doing drive them toward a state of optimal health so they are less likely to fall prey to acute and chronic illness in the first darn place now thats prevention chiropractic style. However, many of our chiropractic colleagues choose to practice primary care and in addition to promoting/educating health and wellness in their patients they also wish to screen them as well to determine the state of their health and utilize evidence based natural interventions/remedies to treat systems and organs which are in subclinical trouble or in symptomatic trouble versus the use of toxic synthetic drugs and all their adverse affects. With the leading edge of the baby boomers hitting 65 Jan 1 of this year the number of Americans eligible for Medicare is now at 70+ million and growing and the new national universal health care system (ObamaCare) will add another 38 million in 2015. There is a horrible shortage of primary care providers which I believe is a huge opportunity for the chiropractic profession for colleagues who wish to treat more than just musculoskeletal conditions. Chestnut would leave the aggressive treatment of the various acute and chronic illness with natural remedies to the naturopaths which is unrealistic both because of their shear lack of numbers and because I and other chiropractic colleagues don't want them having all the fun! Nothing like having a patient drop their lousy statin drug(s) (which are causing a whole generation of congestive heart failure folks) for niacin fish oils, clean nutrient dense diet and appropriate exercise. We need a large number of chiropractic physicians to enter into primary care especially here in Oregon and we need them now. To that end I am very proud off the quality education coming out of the University of Western States in this regard they both understand the need to promote true health and wellness in our patients, the evidence based myriad of natural interventions, and the opportunity for the profession in regards to primary care and the natural treatment of internal disorders. The University is currently developing an exciting Masters of Science program in this regard so look for it, it will be the top program of it's kind in the country. Cheers, Vern Saboe DC DR. CHESTNUT Okay. So Dr. and Dr. have been hammering us with Dr. Chestnut for a while now. ly, I had been drowning in a toxic mix of Pity Party Stress for a quite while now (Yes, I admit it, my life has been pretty challenging of late...) and reeeeeaaaaaly didn't want to attend a seminar this weekend But I thought, "What do they know that I don't know? What's up with all the Chestnut fever?" Well, I have respect for both (not sure WHY I respect him, frankly...LOL) and (I taught a smidgen of EVERYTHING he knows--LOL). But I surrendered and paid to sit in a hotel ballroom to listen to Dr. Chestnut this weekend. I can say without reservation that what I heard today and yesterday was both life changing and practice changing. Or perhaps 'enhancing' might go far enough without using the word 'changing'? Doesn't matter. It was wonderful. It renewed my faith in the art and science of Chiropractic and gave me a more profound understanding the profound importance of Lifestyle--as he puts it, "Eat right, Move right, Think right". Two wings of the same bird: Both have to be flapping to get off the ground and catch those wind currents in order to soar in balance and Dopamine Delight. Anyone who didn't attend this seminar (there are 3 more to come) missed out on an opportunity to RE-CONTEXT themselves in a way that will better serve their lives, their practices, their families and their patients. IMHO. There is another 'Module ll" seminar coming up the weekend of 6/4 and 6/5, so you can jump in midstream with no problem. Doesn't matter so much where you start, just that you consider it. [Of course, some of you may already "Be There". Good for you. Bravo.] That said, I must qualify the statements above by saying that Dr. Herb Freeman, with whom I had the privilege of studying for a few months a while back, already embodies the paradigm shift Chestnut is teaching. And frankly, at its roots, it's a Back To The Future look at the very foundations of Chiropractic and why what we have to offer our patients--without surgery, without drugs, without a shopping bag full of supplements, without needling, without injections, without becoming MD-Wanna-Be's--is better than ANYTHING any other "HealthCare" group has to offer, bar none. I guess I always 'knew that'...sorta. What Dr. Freeman and Dr. Chestnut has gifted me with is a renewed confidence in the art and science of Chiropractic manipulation, but also the certainty that there is nothing better than to be a Chiropractor. "Chiropractic plus Lifestyle is greater than either of the above." "We are heroes and we save lives every day." That's all I have to say. (Not too late to sign up for the next module.) Amen, over and out. Yours, Ann , Doctor of CHIROPRACTIC