Re: Percentages for base/middle/top?

[Guest guest]

Hi Adam,

I once asked the same question and here is the reply I got from some

very nice people here in the group:

having recently read in a French perfumer's magazine that, according to

perfumers, the ideal balanced perfume was 57% top notes, 28% heart

notes and 15% base notes.

Hope this helps.

Angi

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Hi Adam,

>

> I once asked the same question and here is the reply I got from

>some

> very nice people here in the group:

>

> having recently read in a French perfumer's magazine that,

>according >to

> perfumers, the ideal balanced perfume was 57% top notes, 28% heart

> notes and 15% base notes.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Angi

>

hi all

the proportions above unfortunately would not give lastingness to a

perfume.

the purpose of the base notes is to " fix " the others.

this has to do with the size of the molecules (base notes have

larger molecules with more opportunity for bonding to the smaller

(top note) molecules as well as to skin, clothes, etc.)

the proportions that were given by Carles, a well-known

perfumer and teacher were top notes 25%, modifiers 20% (middle

notes), and base notes 55%.

here's an excerpt from his series of papers written on the education

of the perfumer: " A method of creation in Perfumery "

" This percentage (given above) is extremely important: it is, for the

major part, responsible for the tenacity of the perfume. a perfume

containing 20% bases, 30% modifiers and 50% of top notes would lack

tenacity, since the % of bases would be relatively too low as

compared with that of the more volatile modifiers and top notes.

Therefore, the proportions are selected so as to obtain a balanced

evolution during evaporation " .

I have posted the full series of perfumer education articles written

by Carles here:

http://tinyurl.com/3x22lq

although these were written in 1961, they are still valuable today,

and not only map out a complete education strategy for beginning

perfumers, but also go into marketing of perfumes.

back then, the majority of perfume buyers were women, and that's who

he refers to as customers, but today one

could just substitute the phrase " retail perfume consumers " and the

points he makes might make more sense.

i hope these are useful.

-linda

the Perfumer's Apprentice

www.perfumersapprentice.com

[Guest guest]

On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:44 PM, perfumenatural wrote:

> Hi Adam,

>

> I once asked the same question and here is the reply I got from some

> very nice people here in the group:

>

> having recently read in a French perfumer's magazine that,

> according to

> perfumers, the ideal balanced perfume was 57% top notes, 28% heart

> notes and 15% base notes.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Angi

This helps. Thanks. Wow, I had it reversed. Experiments begin....

[Guest guest]

s wrote:

> hi all

>

> the proportions that were given by Carles, a well-known

> perfumer and teacher were top notes 25%, modifiers 20% (middle

> notes), and base notes 55%.

>

Yes, , all, that is roughly correct, but I have found a few holes

in that ratio,

and they have to do with the odor intensity of the aromatics and whether or

not the alcohol is pre-fixed (something Carles never addressed) and

other factors that come into play, such as concentration of the product,

etc.

> here's an excerpt from his series of papers written on the education

> of the perfumer: " A method of creation in Perfumery "

>

> " This percentage (given above) is extremely important: it is, for the

> major part, responsible for the tenacity of the perfume. a perfume

> containing 20% bases, 30% modifiers and 50% of top notes would lack

> tenacity, since the % of bases would be relatively too low as

> compared with that of the more volatile modifiers and top notes.

> Therefore, the proportions are selected so as to obtain a balanced

> evolution during evaporation " .

>

> I have posted the full series of perfumer education articles written

> by Carles here:

>

> http://tinyurl.com/3x22lq

>

Just wondering about your source for this material, . The only

source I know of is the British Library:

http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=198357118 & ETOC=RN & from=searchengine

and they are gung ho about copyright issues. I got my copy from them,

and I got the impression if I posted it my website would be slammed into

the twilight zone by them. If you have a copyright-free source, please

share, it is invaluable! For years, I was the main enabler for the

purchase of the Kaufman book Perfume which included these essays. ;-)

One writer stated that the price of the book is through the roof because

of my efforts, and that is true - you can barely get it for under $35

now, used to be $5-10.

I'm taking Carles initial, wonderful albeit dated information on a new

ride in my class - only the nexus will be evident. After 30 years of

working with his essays, I have developed a new way of looking at

perfume construction, all with naturals, of course. His information is

truly wonderful, but again, tempered by our modern knowledge of new

methods and awareness, etc., etc., all things must change. This is

especially true in synthetic perfumery, they blew his ratios out.

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

[Guest guest]

Anya wrote:

> Just wondering about your source for this material, . The only

> source I know of is the British Library:

> http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=198357118 & ETOC=RN & from=searchengine

> and they are gung ho about copyright issues.

Forgot to mention -- this link has been in our group Links section for

some time: /links

Just scroll down, he's there with Dioscoredes, Arctander and the lot ;-)

Nice, inexpensive way to get your hands on the real deal. If you noodle

around that page and the Files page, whoo hoo, is there a lot of

perfumery publication stuff!

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

[Guest guest]

>

> > Just wondering about your source for this material, . The >only

> > source I know of is the British Library:

> >

>http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=198357118 & ETOC=RN & from=searchengine

> > and they are gung ho about copyright issues.

> Forgot to mention -- this link has been in our group Links section >for

> some time: >/links

> Just scroll down, he's there with Dioscoredes, Arctander and the lot

>;-)

> Nice, inexpensive way to get your hands on the real deal. If you

>noodle

> around that page and the Files page, whoo hoo, is there a lot of

> perfumery publication stuff!

>

> --

> Sincerely, Anya

> Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

> Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

> Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

s wrote:

>>

>>

>>> Just wondering about your source for this material, . The >only

>>> source I know of is the British Library:

>>>

http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=198357118 & ETOC=RN & from=searchengine

and they are gung ho about copyright issues.

>>>

>> Forgot to mention -- this link has been in our group Links section >for

>> some time: >/links

>> Just scroll down, he's there with Dioscoredes, Arctander and the lot

>

> this series of articles (quite lengthy) is publicly available thru the

> U.C Berkeley Library, which is how i was able to get it.

> and i believe it is now public domain in the U.S.

> at least, when i asked at the library they said no problem.

>

Wow, that's great news. Do you have the direct link? We could put it in

the Links section. Do they have any other perfumery books or essays there?

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

[Guest guest]

> >

> > this series of articles (quite lengthy) is publicly available

>thru >the

> > U.C Berkeley Library, which is how i was able to get it.

> > and i believe it is now public domain in the U.S.

> > at least, when i asked at the library they said no problem.

> >

> Wow, that's great news. Do you have the direct link? We could put

>it in

> the Links section. Do they have any other perfumery books or essays

>there?

woops, it was actually san francisco state university. i got other

stuff from berkeley

it appeared as a series of 3 articles in the magazine

" Soap, Perfumery & cosmetics " , april 1962, july 1963 and june 1964.

then in 1968 (the yearbook issue) it was reprinted again in

it's entirety.

i re-typed the whole series, formula tables included, (lot of work!)

and that's the link that i posted in the previous post.

this magazine is in libraries all over the country.

there's a really helpful link

www.worldcat.org

where you can type in your zip code and search for any book

or publication and it will tell you what libraries nearest you

have what you're looking for. i use it a lot. university libraries

can be accessed by the general public.

to find this article just search on " Soap, Perfumery & Cosmetics "

and yes, there were many books/publications on perfumery, i could have

spent a whole lotta time there, but i was on a mission for just

this series of articles.

what's nice about the article is his emphasis on naturals.

although he does talk about synthetics too (of course synthetics were

used quite a bit at the time, as now), most of the formulas

have lots of essential oils and absolutes.

one thread that i really liked in the article was his belief in the

importance of enthusiasm and passion, and risk-taking in perfumery.

He says:

*** " I am here trying to record the result of fifty years of

sometimes disappointing but often most rewarding experiences, in the

hope that my young colleagues will find therein new possibilities for

future creations and will see their enthusiasm increase tenfold when

their efforts are crowned with success; since without enthusiasm

there can be no perfumer. "

i liked that; disappointments as well as hope, but enthusiasm above

all.

linda

the Perfumer's Apprentice

www.perfumersapprentice.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks , Anya

For the useful information to widen our knowledge on perfume

information. So much reading to do and it is so much fun!

Angi

[Guest guest]

> > > Just wondering about your source for this material, . The

>only

> > > source I know of is the British Library:

> > >

> >http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?

UIN=198357118 & ETOC=RN & from=searchengine

>

> > > and they are gung ho about copyright issues.

> > Forgot to mention -- this link has been in our group Links

section >for

> > some time:

>/links

> > Just scroll down, he's there with Dioscoredes, Arctander and the

lot

> >;-)

> > Nice, inexpensive way to get your hands on the real deal. If you

> >noodle

> > around that page and the Files page, whoo hoo, is there a lot of

> > perfumery publication stuff!

> >

> > --

> > Sincerely, Anya

> > Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

> > Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

> > Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

kymeth wrote:

>> this series of articles (quite lengthy) is publicly available thru

>>

> the

>

>> U.C Berkeley Library, which is how i was able to get it.

>> and i believe it is now public domain in the U.S.

>> at least, when i asked at the library they said no problem.

>>

>> -linda

>> The Perfumer's Apprentice

>> www.perfumersapprentice.com

>>

>>

>

> I just wanted to post - to let know that I appreciate

> her taking the time to share all the amount of material,

> and the time it must have taken her to do such a monumental

> task. Thank you !

> P.S. I love your shop - it is simply charming!

> Kim

>

I agree, Kim, it was a real labor of love that shared, and the

photos I've seen of her shop convey a beautiful place to play with the

perfume ingredients, blend and have fun!

- I see you have Section 3a - is there a 3b?

--

Sincerely, Anya

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Natural Perfumers Guild http://NaturalPerfumersGuild.com

Natural Perfumers 1200+ members Group http://tinyurl.com/78kmv

[Guest guest]

> - I see you have Section 3a - is there a 3b?

>

> --

yes, i'm still working on it, the charts are huge.

it's all about cologne formulations, and maybe i'll

finish today.

-linda

The Perfumer's apprentice

www.perfumersapprentice.com

[Guest guest]

>

> kymeth wrote:

> > I just wanted to post - to let know that I appreciate

> > her taking the time to share all the amount of material,

> > and the time it must have taken her to do such a monumental

> > task.

>

> anya wrote:

> - I see you have Section 3a - is there a 3b?

>

hi anya and kymeth

section 3b is now posted, same url.

there will also be a 3c from the same Carles series

these articles, altho from the same series,

did not appear in the kaufmann book and will be new to those

who don't have the entire series.

i think they are well

worth reading.

3b is all about cologne formulation, and makes hardly any

reference at all to synthetics in the body of the article.

i also posted a glossary of components that he refers to.

-linda

The Perfumer's Apprentice

www.perfumersapprentice.com

[Guest guest]

> these articles, altho from the same series,

> did not appear in the kaufmann book and will be new to those

> who don't have the entire series.

> i think they are well

> worth reading.

>

> 3b is all about cologne formulation, and makes hardly any

> reference at all to synthetics in the body of the article.

>

> i also posted a glossary of components that he refers to.

>

> -linda

> The Perfumer's Apprentice

> www.perfumersapprentice.com

>

my mistake.. colognes is in the kaufman book

it's the section after that on florals that isn't

-linda