Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Adam Gottschalk <adam@...> wrote: I would have assumed that synthetics were immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, but go bad? Can anyone explain that? I have a perfume that is over nine years old that I made in 98' for Hereford Cathedral and is better today for the ageing.... and another that is just four years old the same...I don't know much about synths...(don't like them) but chemicals combined I imagine when exposed to air after a time will just break down...... they have nothing to support each other with just isolated molecules being created on the lab bench.... I had a client who could not wear perfume on her skin because it went bad on her..... A horrible metallicy off note that was not nice. I suggested that she try one of my naturals 'Zang' I recall.... and it sat beautifully on her skin. She was so thrilled that she could wear perfume after all. So many times now over the years I have seen time and time again the effects of chemicals on skin causing bad odor....Another was allergic to the denaturant in cosmetic alcohol..... which I discovered a couple of years in that they denatured alcohol with a host of foul and disgusting chemicals for the cosmetic industry.... or DEB as they call it. In conclusion my theory is that because the chemical is isolated or articially made there are no other components to support its life...... Someone who knows about chemicals may be able to answer you more succinctly... best wishes Janita Janita Haan perfume http://wwwjanitahaan.com tba Flowers of Myddfai http://www.flowersofmyddfaiproject.blogspot.com Janita's Attar http://www.janitasattars.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 " Not that I really care (except for the upside--ours don't), but I found it interesting in that video that Mandy says clearly that synthetics can go bad, where naturals might actually get better. I found this very surprising. I would have assumed that synthetics were immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, but go bad? Can anyone explain that? " Hi Adam, Janita and All, As for synths, all I can say is the guide, in Grasse, last week said that the enemies of their perfumes are light, heat and humidity. I have not studied the degredation of synths so cannot say for sure, chemically, what happens to them as they age. I do know that the synth musks are a health hazard and have been found in breast milk. I suspect synths are susceptible to degredation, but, they rely on preservatives to slow the process. As for the naturals, we know that terpenes and linalol oxidize and degrade over time, leading to increased skin irritation. We have to take care how we store our essences. That's why there are terpenless essences out there, and some choose to use them. I have found that storing citrus, conifer and high linalol essences in good conditions allows them to last for a few years before they start to loose their original quality. Some of the constiuents in tea tree do the same. Getting these fresh to start with is good. Chamazulene will turn green to brownish to blackish as it degrades over time. Neroli starts to lose some of it's sweet top notes after 18 months or so. Polymerization in some some essences ocurrs, as well. This is when 2 smaller molecules join to make bigger repeating structures, you can see this happening on the rim of a myrrh bottle, for example. Sometimes this is not good for the essence in question. In other cases, such as pachouli and sandalwood, the aging process improves the quality of the essence. I have 10 year old rose otto samples that still smell good. Rarely, is there a simple answer when dealing with the naturals. This is a partial answer to your question. Maybe others will contribute here. Best, Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 I am posting this again as it still hasn't shown up from this morning ... if two come down ..... apologies.... janita Adam Gottschalk <adam@...> wrote: I would have assumed that synthetics were immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, but go bad? Can anyone explain that? I have a perfume that is over nine years old that I made in 98' for Hereford Cathedral and is better today for the ageing.... and another that is just four years old the same...I don't know much about synths...(don't like them) but chemicals combined I imagine when exposed to air after a time will just break down...... they have nothing to support each other with just isolated molecules being created on the lab bench.... I had a client who could not wear perfume on her skin because it went bad on her..... A horrible metallicy off note that was not nice. I suggested that she try one of my naturals 'Zang' I recall.... and it sat beautifully on her skin. She was so thrilled that she could wear perfume after all. So many times now over the years I have seen time and time again the effects of chemicals on skin causing bad odor....Another was allergic to the denaturant in cosmetic alcohol..... which I discovered a couple of years in that they denatured alcohol with a host of foul and disgusting chemicals for the cosmetic industry.... or DEB as they call it. In conclusion my theory is that because the chemical is isolated or articially made there are no other components to support its life...... Someone who knows about chemicals may be able to answer you more succinctly... best wishes Janita Janita Haan perfume http://wwwjanitahaan.com tba Flowers of Myddfai http://www.flowersofmyddfaiproject.blogspot.com Janita's Attar http://www.janitasattars.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. --------------------------------- is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 > > I would have assumed that synthetics were > immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, but go > bad? Can anyone explain that? -------------------------------------- I can't explain why but I do know that synthetics go bad. I have a bottle of Miss Dior (not sure of age 10 +) but the remaining perfume smell gross as well as a bottle of Shalimar that my mom has with the smallest drop left. Maybe when the chemicals break down over time they come up with their own eau de gag... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 " I can't explain why but I do know that synthetics go bad. I have a bottle of Miss Dior (not sure of age 10 +) but the remaining perfume smell gross as well as a bottle of Shalimar that my mom has with the smallest drop left. Maybe when the chemicals break down over time they come up with their own eau de gag... " Hi , ha, eau de gag. Right on you are, they told us at Fragonard that when stored properly their perfumes would last 2-6 years. Some of the naturals still have a pleasant scent after being stored for a very very long time. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Edited to trim - a lot! I would have assumed that synthetics were > immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, but go > bad? Can anyone explain that? Think that bacteria and fungi can easily decompose funky synths like paint and varnish, petroleum jelly, grease and diesel oil... These little creatures can decompose almost anything on Earth (thnk God they do...). Perfumes are like apetizers for them... I suppose Aniba, still trying to load the goo pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 sagullinha7 wrote: > > Adam Gottschalk <adam@...> wrote: I would have assumed that > > synthetics were immune to rancidity. Of course they couldn't improve with age, > > but go bad? Can anyone explain that? > Think that bacteria and fungi can easily decompose funky synths > like paint and varnish, petroleum jelly, grease and diesel oil... > These little creatures can decompose almost anything on Earth (thnk > God they do...). Perfumes are like apetizers for them... I dunno about the synthetics, but bacteria and fungi aren't usually the culprits here.... Heat and light are...... I dunno about absolutes, but EOs *kill* the buggies.....and I suspect many of the synths do also.... That's why essences many times come in dark bottles.......and generally speaking, one stores them out of the heat...... The photons.....Here's some physics, Adam...<G>......whether they are particles or waves, or something in between, whack into the compound chains...and bust them up...or raise energy states to instability...or whatever you want to call it.... Like the guy from Grasse said... Heat stirs stuff up, too..... r oils ya use at the risk of rancidity..... Essence added to them prolongs their life.....it backs off the buggies... Even fractionated coconut will go bad.....given enough time..... Jojoba, which is actually a liquid wax, takes a long time also.... High concentration alcohol kills not only the buggies, but higher forms of life... It's all in the dance of atoms.... I love that phrase.... Jeez you guys.....I scheduled a mental health day, and won't bore you with the stuff I had fun with.....<G>...... -- W. Bourbonais L'Hermite Aromatique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 " It's all in the dance of atoms.... " with some electron tunneling, quantum leaps, and olfactory neuronal projections thrown in for good measure. Absolutely Fabulous, is it not? Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hi , ha, eau de gag. Right on you are, they told us at Fragonard that when stored properly their perfumes would last 2-6 years. Some of the naturals still have a pleasant scent after being stored for a very very long time. Debbie and what about the perfumes found in th ancient tombs still fragrant after 1000 of years.....no synths there! *:-) Janita --------------------------------- is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 freunddebbie wrote: > > " It's all in the dance of atoms.... " > > with some electron tunneling, quantum leaps, and olfactory neuronal > projections thrown in for good measure. Absolutely Fabulous, is it not? > And brain limbic reactions, too.....<G>... That's the lizard in all of us... The synth folks *should* be scared.... I have this thing about Ma Gaia..... -- W. Bourbonais L'Hermite Aromatique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 > > The synth folks *should* be scared.... > > I have this thing about Ma Gaia..... > -- > W. Bourbonais > L'Hermite Aromatique > Yep -- no matter how you try to imitate her or fool her, she always has the upper hand! (It's that 'replicant versus original' thing again.) It's 'cause she knows it all and rules it all. And, to continue on Janita's note, we do know from archeological finds that natural perfumes can last for ages. From reading the deciphered recipes, we know that their perfumes did have top and middle notes, which dissipated over time. But the base notes have remained for thousands of years, and could possibly last for eons -- maybe indefinitely. Yep -- Ma Gaia rules! Andrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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