Re: Perfumed Soap

[Guest guest]

Here, Here!! I have been addicted to soapmaking for about 4 years

now. Love it, love it.... One tends to use less expensive eo's in

soaps though as they do eat the scent. Also, I soap at all cold temps

and them put my batch in the fridge or freezer which helps to keep the

eo's from evaporating in a cloud of steam.

Deb

[Guest guest]

>

> Here, Here!! I have been addicted to soapmaking for about 4 years

> now. Love it, love it.... One tends to use less expensive eo's in

> soaps though as they do eat the scent. Also, I soap at all cold

> temps and them put my batch in the fridge or freezer which helps to

> keep the eo's from evaporating in a cloud of steam.

> Deb

>

Hi Deb -- Thanks for that useful bit of info. I never thought to chill

the soap after I pour it. I always race it straight to the folds of an

old sleeping bag to insulate it while it finishes saponofying. So, do

you cool it down first, and then insulate it? Or do you not insulate

it at all?

Thanks again,

Andrine

[Guest guest]

>

> Here, Here!! I have been addicted to soapmaking for about 4 years

> now. Love it, love it.... One tends to use less expensive eo's in

> soaps though as they do eat the scent. Also, I soap at all cold temps

> and them put my batch in the fridge or freezer which helps to keep the

> eo's from evaporating in a cloud of steam.

> Deb

>

Oh yes, I played with sweet Orange, which I have extra of. It didn't

evaproate, since I made sure everything was cool, and it didn't go into

gel (small 2lb batch) - it just dissapeard...LOL and I usually add it at

late trace, to 6% superfat I thought not only would it be nice to have

extra oil for the skin, but also enough extra for the lye, to leave my

EO alone. Guess it's tasty...

I will make more with Orange, Mint, Lavender, Cinnamon leaf holds nice

in smaller amounts (not so tasty it seems LOL), and maybe build a simple

accord, but at this point at least, there are no precious formulations

going in there. I'll have to get the floral waxes everyone raves

about.... the wishlist never ends. If nothing else, I just have to know.

ne

[Guest guest]

Sorry perfume folks - hope you don't mind a bit of soap talk. I mix my

lye and liquid. I put it in the fridge or freezer to cool down. I

melt my butters into my oils. I set it aside to come to room temp. I

mix the above when they are both room temp and sometimes the lye

solution is much colder. I mix, bring to trace, pour, cover lightly

with waxed paper and put in fridge otr freezer depending on where I

have space. Colors stay lighter, eo's stay stronger and it makes a

lovely bar of soap.

Deb

[Guest guest]

I made a very nice orange soap and anchored it with a teeny tiny bit of

patchouli (vanilla would do the same too and makes a creamsicle kind of

scent) and I also included powdered orange peel and powdered oatmeal.

The scent stayed very nicely. Not strong but still evident.

Deb

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry perfume folks - hope you don't mind a bit of soap talk.

Hi Deb, I hope not either. A while back, there was some soap talk, and

I was amazed how many soapers we have here, and some who wanted to be.

At the time, the last included me <G>. That's why I shared my soaping

experience here. This discussion was, what finally brought me around to

trying it myself.

snipped

I mix, bring to trace, pour, cover lightly

> with waxed paper and put in fridge otr freezer depending on where I

> have space. Colors stay lighter, eo's stay stronger and it makes a

> lovely bar of soap.

>

> Deb

>

Thanks a lot Deb, for sharing this. I thought that everything had to be

mixed before pouring in the mold. I mixed lye with half frozen, half

liquid Hydrosol, which makes for no fumes, and cool solution, room temp

oils, and put in EOs just before I had to pour. I'm still so new at this

- but it's a lot of fun.

ne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/27/2007 3:45:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sblessinghww@... writes:

Oh yes, I played with sweet Orange, which I have extra of. It didn't

evaproate, since I made sure everything was cool, and it didn't go into

gel (small 2lb batch) - it just dissapeard..gel (small 2lb batch) - it just

late trace, to 6% superfat I thought not only would it be nice to have

extra oil for the skin, but also enough extra for the lye, to leave my

EO alone. Guess it's tasty...

ne,

If you're sing an Orange EO, in CP soap, it helps to add in some Litsea

Cubeba to anchor it. Also keep it as cool as possible, and put it in the freezer

for a few hours to overnight. Heat takes the scent in CP.

Hope that helps some.

Lorene

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

> Also, I soap at all cold temps

> and them put my batch in the fridge or freezer which helps to keep

the eo's from evaporating in a cloud of steam.

Hi!

If you put the soap in the fridge or freezer you stop the

saponification process, warmth is required to make soap, even after

you have poured it, the lye creates a chemical reaction inside your

molds and by chilling your soaps you stop this process.

I always wrap my soaps, I put them in boxes with layers of insulation

and I also add hotwater bottles to keep the warmth in.

I know it is a bit of a nightmare to keep the EO's in the soap, some

notes just get eaten up by the Lye as soon as you add it. However,

there is a very nice little trick you could do. When I mix my EO's

and before I add them to my superfatting oils, I take a little bit of

cotton wool and rub the molds with the EO Mix. Then I put my paper

liners in the mold and that's all there is to it. The EO's soak into

the paper and don't come in direct contact with the soap but they

infuse your soaps lovely!

Worth a try!

Vita.

[Guest guest]

>

However, there is a very nice little trick you could do. When I mix my

EO's

> and before I add them to my superfatting oils, I take a little bit of

> cotton wool and rub the molds with the EO Mix. Then I put my paper

> liners in the mold and that's all there is to it. The EO's soak into

> the paper and don't come in direct contact with the soap but they

> infuse your soaps lovely!

>

> Worth a try!

>

> Vita.

>

Hi Vita, thanks a lot for this tip. I read somewhere to soak cloth in

EOs and wrap the whole soap, for it to absorb the EOs after de-molding.

This seemed to require even more EO, so I didn't try it yet. Better then

having them gone though. I really love your idea. Makes sense.

Thanks again, ne

[Guest guest]

At 09:57 AM 4/28/2007, you wrote:

>

> >

>However, there is a very nice little trick you could do. When I mix my

>EO's

> > and before I add them to my superfatting oils, I take a little bit of

> > cotton wool and rub the molds with the EO Mix. Then I put my paper

> > liners in the mold and that's all there is to it. The EO's soak into

> > the paper and don't come in direct contact with the soap but they

> > infuse your soaps lovely!

> >

> > Worth a try!

> >

> > Vita.

> >

>

>Hi Vita, thanks a lot for this tip. I read somewhere to soak cloth in

>EOs and wrap the whole soap, for it to absorb the EOs after de-molding.

>This seemed to require even more EO, so I didn't try it yet. Better then

>having them gone though. I really love your idea. Makes sense.

>

>Thanks again, ne

Hi ne, Vita, soapers who are all in a lather ;-)

So glad to hear these tips coming out since it's always been known

that there are some problems with EOs in the soapmaking process.

Absolutes are even more pricey, usually. ne, you're right -- you

have to get some floral waxes. Did you see Mikes post on April 8th?

/message/20087

Back in March I shared this: 1 oz of wax is = to 1/2 oz of absolute

for rose -- quite a savings! Anybody use concretes?

Just wondering if any of the soapers have tried to duplicate any of

Poucher's soap perfume formulas?

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://ArtisanNaturalPerfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

Natural Perfumery Blog http://AnyasGarden.Blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Hi ne, Vita, soapers who are all in a lather ;-)

>

> So glad to hear these tips coming out since it's always been known

> that there are some problems with EOs in the soapmaking process.

> Absolutes are even more pricey, usually. ne, you're right -- you

> have to get some floral waxes. Did you see Mikes post on April 8th?

> /message/20087

> Back in March I shared this: 1 oz of wax is = to 1/2 oz of absolute

> for rose -- quite a savings! Anybody use concretes?

>

> Just wondering if any of the soapers have tried to duplicate any of

> Poucher's soap perfume formulas?

>

>

> Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://AnyasGarden.com

Hi Anya,

No, I didn't see Mike's post. Thanks a lot, I will check it out.

You are right, it's wonderful to find ways of naturally perfuming soap.

It would be lovely to have great soap in a favorite perfume, even I

don't see that just yet. Complementary is good, too. I haven't used

Pouchers formulas yet, or even attempted a " real " formula, except

simple blends, to evaluate EO performance. I'm not really worried about

it, since I'm also not a soaper. I'll get the soaping figured out, try

to make friends with lye (still only a necessary evil), then work on

perfuming, rather then scenting. Babysteps. At this point, I'm not even

sure how far I want to get involved with soap. I just adore the way my

soap feels, what it does for my skin, but my passion is in creating

perfumes. Things can change, but there are much finer nuances possible,

enhanced effects, that I can't see happening in soap. But I'm certainly

not at a point to judge that. Thanks Anya, for allowing soap talk -

it's fascinating to try to figure out the challenge this presents.

Again, hats off to all soapers perfuming naturally. I found this is a

much underestimated art. It is so much easier to blend in oil and

alcohol.

Fragrant Silk Bubbles

ne

[Guest guest]

No - this does become soap and the saponification process does

continue, just at a slower pace. I have many pounds of fully

saponified wonderful soap made this way.

Deb

[Guest guest]

> the challenge... I found perfuming M & P alright to do, even though

it is

> definitely different then perfuming in alcohol or oil. The CP

however

> just loves to " eat " the scent. Good thing I didn't invest a lot that

> way, kind of expecting the first batch to fail. I tried again, with

more

> EO then I ever poured into anything - and have at least a light

scent

> left - outch LOL .... I'm personally very happy with a very light,

or

> unscented soap, since I will apply the scent of my choice later

anyway -

> or not, but I certainly have found out, why perfumed soaps are

pricey -

> the scent investment is incredible. Maybe seasoned soapers will

laugh at

> this, or can confirm it, but I thought it definitely fits into

natural

> perfumery - under challenges.

> Always experimenting,

> ne

Hi all!

I thought I'd throw my own bit in on this subject. I prefer the hot

process (HP) when it comes to creating a perufmed bar of soap.

Although not always popular, I think this method is best for this

purpose as do most of the OLD soap making manuals. Whether I re-melt

a cured batch or keep a tracing mixture on heat to fully saponify, I

like to be sure all the lye is neutralized before adding the precious

EO blend to the final product.

It takes lots of practice and a few tricks to get it just right so

you can still POUR the soap into a mold AND retain the fragrances

added. One thing I've learned the hard way is to let your soap

pot 'settle' after you've taken it off the heat. Wrapping a heavy

towel around the pot while it settles is even better. I also leave a

thermometer in the soap to monitor the temp as it cools.

I also like to put the perfume in the oil added to superfat the soap

before I pour it into molds. (Sometimes I also add some glycerine to

the oils as well.) If my EO's contain any citrus I make sure I get

the soap temp below 110 degrees before adding. (Know your EO's flash

points! Some tolerate heat more than others, of course.) This can be

difficult to pour if you stir the batch too much when adding the

superfat/EO's.

The addition of powdered milk (at the end of the process) will also

give the batch a smoother 'mash-potato' consistency. I also try to

formulate the batch at a 1% superfat ratio when calculating lye. I do

this so I can add more 'fresh' oil at the end of the process to

superfat as well as carry the fragrance.

Another neat trick is to rebatch (re-melt) a cured soap stock with

hydrosol, tea, or favorite cocktail mixture. The possibilities are

endless if you have some patience.

iel

[Guest guest]

>

snipped for brevity..

This can be

> difficult to pour if you stir the batch too much when adding the

> superfat/EO's.

> The addition of powdered milk (at the end of the process) will also

> give the batch a smoother 'mash-potato' consistency. I also try to

> formulate the batch at a 1% superfat ratio when calculating lye. I do

> this so I can add more 'fresh' oil at the end of the process to

> superfat as well as carry the fragrance.

> Another neat trick is to rebatch (re-melt) a cured soap stock with

> hydrosol, tea, or favorite cocktail mixture. The possibilities are

> endless if you have some patience.

> iel

>

Wow iel, you are a man of many trades - I'll have to try that. I

did CP in the oven method before, many times read over the HP in the

pot, since I heard that it's better for EOs, but am afraid I'll have a

soap-in the-pot-on a stick, if I mess up. As it is, I'm rushing from

trace to the mold (always want to be sure everything is really well on

its way, and the lye well fed). I am using Hydrosol instead of distilled

water though- that's just a given for everything. Why use water if you

can use Hydrosol. I'll definitely give your suggestions a try. Sounds

like you know what you're talking about.

Thanks a lot,

ne

[Guest guest]

> The addition of powdered milk (at the end of the process) will also

> give the batch a smoother 'mash-potato' consistency. I also try to

> formulate the batch at a 1% superfat ratio when calculating lye. I do

> this so I can add more 'fresh' oil at the end of the process to

> superfat as well as carry the fragrance.

> Another neat trick is to rebatch (re-melt) a cured soap stock with

> hydrosol, tea, or favorite cocktail mixture. The possibilities are

> endless if you have some patience.

> iel

iel, you are a child of my heart. I have been wanting to talk about

HP and EO's but hadn't taken the time to think a post through. You said it

so well!!!!! It is the only way to go if you want a truly perfumed soap.

It does take a bit of practice to know when to add stuff at the end of the

cook. When I can hold my hand on the pot then it is ready for the adds. I

am not much for doing a rebatch, I enjoy the HP.

Jane

www.adobesoapworks.com

[Guest guest]

many times read over the HP in the

> pot, since I heard that it's better for EOs, but am afraid I'll have a

> soap-in the-pot-on a stick, if I mess up.

Suzanne, no rushing with HP....that is one of the myths. It is a lovely

thing to watch your soap cook off and go through all the stages. Gives you

a great understanding of " how it makes soap " . You won't have soap on a

stick, that is another myth. You can't mess it up!

Jane

www.adobesoapworks.com

[Guest guest]

> I thought I'd throw my own bit in on this subject. I prefer the hot

> process (HP) when it comes to creating a perufmed bar of soap.

I have made many HP Batches, usually in the crockpot, but after a

couple of years I have gone back to the CP. I find that the HP soap,

although the scent is lovely, is a bit softer and doesn't firm up

that well after it has been used. Sometimes it was a fight with the

paste to get it into the molds, but I also made my soap at a very low

rate of excess Lye so that I could add the superfatting oils right at

the end with the EO's to make it easier to scoop.

Another neat little trick is to mix your pure EO's with a small

amount of Clay powder (I prefer the white clay) and let it sit for a

day or so in a sealed jar. All you have to do is break up the clay

with the back of a spoon and add it right at the end before you pour

the soap. The scent really anchors into the clay which gives it some

kind of protection from the Lye. I do the same thing when I want to

add dried leaves or petals to the soap, I soak them with the EO's in

advance in a sealed jar so that they hold the scent.

Something else I have tried is that when a soap has lost its scent,

place the fully cured and dried bars in a plastic sealed box with a

few balls of cotton wool that are soaked in the same EO's as you used

before. Leave the box closed for a week or so (longer if you like)

and you will notice that the soap is totally freshly infused again

with its original scent.

One of my favourite EO's in soap is definately Vetiver, it is a

brilliant anchor and it doesn't seem to be effected by the Lye at

all. It goes ever so well with so many other EO's, but for soap I

try to stick to EO's that wouldn't break the bank! You wouldn't see

me pour a bottle of Rose in Soap for example, although I would love

to if money didn't matter!

A few spoons of fresh goats yoghurt (not too much) at the end of the

soap process also works a treat, it adds that very special something

to the soap!

Lye can be a bit of a hungry beast when it comes to EO's!

Vita.

[Guest guest]

> Hi all!

> I thought I'd throw my own bit in on this subject. I prefer the hot

> process (HP) when it comes to creating a perufmed bar of soap.

> Although not always popular, I think this method is best for this

> purpose as do most of the OLD soap making manuals.

Hi iel

You make soap as well!!!

I have a few old books that contain some soap recipes. Have you ever

seen the " an Wash Balls " the Body Shop used to sell them? I

would love to learn how to make some. I hated all the Body Shop stuff

mainly because it all smelled so nasty, but this one soap was lovely,

it was a round soap ball, brown in colour and it had little flecks of

herbs and things mixed in. It floated in the bath as well. I am

guessing the smell was a vanilla sandalwood fankincense base. Do you

know the one I mean, please say you do!

I've just completed my *very first* CP soap. It's ok, the smell is

lovely, but I made the mistake of cutting it too soon. I ended up

retarding the saponification process.

A friend suggested I put it in the oven for a while to re-warm it and

it seemed to work. I used orange, ginger and oakmoss. It smells

strong, I have it in the airing cupboard and all the clothes smell so

nice.

I am no where near making it to sell yet though! Just experimenting.

My soap maker is taking a vacation, baby having LOL (that's not a

vacation!)

Whether I re-melt

> a cured batch or keep a tracing mixture on heat to fully saponify, I

> like to be sure all the lye is neutralized before adding the precious

> EO blend to the final product.

How do you re-batch with out the soap shrinking, without a soap press

that is? I have been rebatching pure olive oil soap, castile and

adding oils, but it always goes out of shape and shrinks way down.

SNIP***

> iel

>

Also iel, How do I get a nice creamy coloured bar. My soap looks

browny green. I bought a lot of oils to try, I have shea butter, mango

butter, coco butter, olive oil, almond oil, borage oil, hemp oil,

virgin coconut oil, castor oil and jojoba oil.

BTW, where do you sell all the lovely things you make?

TIA

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

> I have a few old books that contain some soap recipes. Have you ever

> seen the " an Wash Balls " the Body Shop used to sell them? I

> would love to learn how to make some. <snip> This one soap was

> lovely, it was a round soap ball, brown in colour and it had little

> flecks of herbs and things mixed in. It floated in the bath as

> well.

Hi there Ruth -- I'm not iel, but I hope that's okay <grin>

Here's how to make a soap that floats. Make your HP soap first.

After it's fully cured, grate it all up very finely. Add water to

it, little by little (you don't want it to get soupy; you want to be

able to work with it in your hands) and whip it up (use a mixer, it's

easier on your arms). What makes it float is the air that you

incorporate into it -- hence, the whipping. (That's what makes Ivory

soap float!) Add your herbs and scents and then shape the mixture

into balls. Squeeze the buhjeebers out of it to compress it nicely

(A large meatball scoop with the holes properly plugged should do the

trick). Let it rest somewhere until it hardens back up. Sorry I

don't have actual amounts for water and other ingredients, but that's

how you make a soap that floats. Herbs and spices can lend color to

it, and your oils hold up in it really well because it's already

fully saponified.

Hope this helps!

Andrine

[Guest guest]

***SNIP***

> When I can hold my hand on the pot then it is ready for the adds. I

> am not much for doing a rebatch, I enjoy the HP.

>

> Jane

> www.adobesoapworks.com

>

Hi Jane,(I can't type that name without thinking of spidermans

girlfriend, I love the name, it's so cute)

Now, down to the business of HP soap. Am I right in saying that with

hot process you make it the same way as CP but you have heat under the

pot? And then you keep cooing it afer it has reached trace? And then

you let it cool while stirring? And then you add the EOs?

Sorry for all the questions, you seem like you really know your stuff

though? How long have you been making perfumed soap?

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

[Guest guest]

> Hi there Ruth -- I'm not iel, but I hope that's okay <grin>

> OOOPS! Sorry Andrine, I had a hard weekend! WORKING!

> Here's how to make a soap that floats. Make your HP soap first.

> After it's fully cured, grate it all up very finely. Add water to

> it, little by little (you don't want it to get soupy; you want to be

> able to work with it in your hands) and whip it up (use a mixer, it's

> easier on your arms). What makes it float is the air that you

> incorporate into it -- hence, the whipping. (That's what makes Ivory

> soap float!)

That makes sense!

> Add your herbs and scents and then shape the mixture

> into balls. Squeeze the buhjeebers out of it to compress it nicely

> (A large meatball scoop with the holes properly plugged should do the

> trick).

Would an icecream scoop do the trick I wonder? we don't have meatball

scoops here in Ireland, I didn't even know such a thing existed. <g>

> Let it rest somewhere until it hardens back up. Sorry I

> don't have actual amounts for water and other ingredients, but that's

> how you make a soap that floats. Herbs and spices can lend color to

> it, and your oils hold up in it really well because it's already

> fully saponified.

>

> Hope this helps!

> Andrine

Thanks a million Andrine.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> > Hi there Ruth -- I'm not iel, but I hope that's okay <grin>

> > OOOPS! Sorry Andrine, I had a hard weekend! WORKING!

No, no -- It was iel in the first place. But I jumped in to

answer your question instead of him. It's all good!

Andrine

[Guest guest]

> Hi iel

> You make soap as well!!!

> I have a few old books that contain some soap recipes. Have you ever

> seen the " an Wash Balls " the Body Shop used to sell them? I

> would love to learn how to make some. I hated all the Body Shop

stuff

> mainly because it all smelled so nasty, but this one soap was

lovely,

> it was a round soap ball, brown in colour and it had little flecks

of

> herbs and things mixed in. It floated in the bath as well. I am

> guessing the smell was a vanilla sandalwood fankincense base. Do you

> know the one I mean, please say you do!

> How do you re-batch with out the soap shrinking, without a soap

press

> that is? I have been rebatching pure olive oil soap, castile and

> adding oils, but it always goes out of shape and shrinks way down.

> Also iel, How do I get a nice creamy coloured bar. My soap

looks

> browny green. I bought a lot of oils to try, I have shea butter,

mango

> butter, coco butter, olive oil, almond oil, borage oil, hemp oil,

> virgin coconut oil, castor oil and jojoba oil.

>

> BTW, where do you sell all the lovely things you make?

> TIA

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

Wow, lots of great questions Ruth! I'll give you my take on soap

things. First off, I hate soap balls. I don't know why, but I do. For

some reason I don't think soap should be shperical, so I can't help

you out with that one.

When I rebatch soap, I weigh the soap (cured and dried for a few

weeks) and then I shred it. Multiply the weight by 20% (.20) - this

is the weight in distilled water (or other liquid) that I use to melt

the soap in. I rebatch in a crock pot on low heat. It takes several

hours. I find I don't get too much shrinkage when I use a cured and

DRIED soap stock with a 20% water weight addition.

Creamy colored soap requires 'white' (hahaha) oils and fats. Tallow

and lard (gasp! yes, I use them too...), coconut, shea, and palm

kernel just to name a few. Watch out for borage and hemp oils. They

have short shelf lives and could potentially sour in a bar of soap

that sits around too long. I'll email you off list with some white

soap recipes.

As for selling, I don't have a store front, website, etc. Just a few

word of mouth customers here and there. I no longer live in an urban

area, so the population is smaller and the economy is somewhat

depressed. But the low volume keeps me happy every few weeks!!

iel

[Guest guest]

> > Jane

> > www.adobesoapworks.com

> >

> Hi Jane,(I can't type that name without thinking of spidermans

> girlfriend, I love the name, it's so cute)

> Now, down to the business of HP soap. Am I right in saying that with

> hot process you make it the same way as CP but you have heat under the

> pot? And then you keep cooing it afer it has reached trace? And then

> you let it cool while stirring? And then you add the EOs?

> Sorry for all the questions, you seem like you really know your stuff

> though? How long have you been making perfumed soap?

>

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

Hi Ruth:). Here's the first photo illustrated DBHP directions on the

net. It's pretty simple. I recommend a low olive formula to start, it

will cook faster:

http://www.zensoaps.com/hpsoap.htm

Helen

[Guest guest]

>

> No - this does become soap and the saponification process does

> continue, just at a slower pace. I have many pounds of fully

> saponified wonderful soap made this way.

>

> Deb

Ungelled CP (ones that have been cooled to prevent gel) tend to be

milkier and prettier actually. This is the type of soap most people

will 'cure' for 8 weeks (tho that's far more time than required).

Gelled CP which are insulated, or if the oils were warm to begin with,

fully saponify and are useable within 48 hours, tho most soapers 'cure'

this for 4 weeks, it is usually not as smooth as ungelled.

There is a definite difference in the appearance of the product between

the 2 forms of CP... gelled soaps tend to be more translucent

(depending on oil combo). Many soapers do milk soaps ungelled (cooled,

and sometimes even freezer), it's beautiful if you are careful about

ash on top.

Helen

www.zensoaps.com