Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 > > Forgot to mention that my ultimate goal is to " extract " the essence > of willing human participants. That will take some doing, and the > acquisition of some equipment I don't yet have. But, clearly, if > human pheromones are what is really wanted, real human pheromones are > what should be used. > Adam- Here is a question for ya. Why would we want to add animal (or human for that matter) pheromones to something that already has it's own " fingerprint " pheromone? Would be like taken someone's skin off of their fingertips and putting it on top of our own we have a set already. We all have our completely unique Erogenic & Anti-Erogenic pheromones and those are brought out more by the natural things that we put on our bodies. I guess I have never understood the quest for an element we all already have. It is like the " Pursuit of Happiness " , you have it already, you just have to use it...... -Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 On Apr 12, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Anya wrote: > I foresee a few problems with this, Adam: > > 1. The FDA or some other regulatory agency will probably step in to > govern anything that has human essence in it. > 2. All pheromones are not created equal, or equally desirable to all. > The age and sex of the participant comes into factor, plus the fact > that a pheromone that might appeal to one person won't appeal to the > next. We are governed by our noses, and accept or reject a potential > mate based on that. Animal essences, I believe, and Salaam can > correct me, are sexual, yet neutral in this sense, so their use in > perfumes is more apt to " work " . Understood. I intend to experiment however. I think of women I've known who smelled uncannily sweet. Many of us have read of HG Wells: by all accounts, not the most visually attractive man in the world, but a serious womanizer; one of his girlfriends is on record saying that the smell of the man himself was intoxicating. I reckon, with enough practice and time, human scents, adulterated with all manner of botanicals, appealing to most could be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 On Apr 12, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Nikki Sherritt wrote: > Here is a question for ya. Why would we want to add animal (or > human for that matter) > pheromones to something that already has it's own " fingerprint " > pheromone? Would be like > taken someone's skin off of their fingertips and putting it on top > of our own we have a set > already. We all have our completely unique Erogenic & Anti- > Erogenic pheromones and those > are brought out more by the natural things that we put on our > bodies. I guess I have never > understood the quest for an element we all already have. It is > like the " Pursuit of Happiness " , > you have it already, you just have to use it...... > > -Nikki > WELL SAID....NIKKI i tend to agree here... we can change our own pheromones by our stress levels, and as well what we eat, how much we exercise L Libby libby@... 510-290-4028 ANGELIC organic perfume photography film lingerie writing] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 > > Forgot to mention that my ultimate goal is to " extract " the essence > of willing human participants. That will take some doing, and the > acquisition of some equipment I don't yet have. But, clearly, if > human pheromones are what is really wanted, real human pheromones are > what should be used. Hi Adam and all interested in this subject, I found this page on the Web a while back. Thought y'all might like it, though I've no idea what accurate information is regarding pheromones. The writing's postulation, though (if I remember correctly from months ago), is that even plants have pheromonal activity in humans, just as animal essences do. http://cranemoon.tripod.com/pheromones.htm. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 --- Nikki Sherritt <nsherritt@...> wrote: > > Here is a question for ya. Why would we want to add > animal (or human for that matter) > pheromones to something that already has it's own > " fingerprint " pheromone? Would be like > taken someone's skin off of their fingertips and > putting it on top of our own we have a set > already. We all have our completely unique > Erogenic & Anti-Erogenic pheromones and those > are brought out more by the natural things that we > put on our bodies. I guess I have never > understood the quest for an element we all already > have. It is like the " Pursuit of Happiness " , > you have it already, you just have to use it...... > Hi Nikki, I'm just catching up with your discussion of animal scents and wanted to tell you that I feel very strongly about not using the ones that involve cruelty. I have my own lines that I draw-- I do use bee products for instance. I think a lot of people in this group stay away from the ones that are obtained through cruelty. You are right to share the information with the group. But I also think that the element of natural funk has a very important place in perfumery. Part of the problem with a lot of the commercial synthetic perfumes that are popular today is that they are just pretty candy flower scents that contain nothing challenging or special. Consider the fact that many of the most beautiful natural flower scents contain small amounts of indole (fecal scent). This is part of what makes them so attractive and beautiful to us. It's the overall effect of the perfume that changes when we add a little bit of something slightly repulsive and that keeps us coming back for more. That's why Anya's goat hair tincture is so brilliant. It's a great way to add funk without cruelty. Africa stone is another good one. Personally, I don't believe that human pheromones can be added effectively to perfumes because people are attracted to different ones. I read a study once that showed that individuals are more attracted to the scents of people whose genetic imprint was farthest from their own. This says a lot to me about the use of human pheromones in perfumery. There is no magic human scent that would appeal to everyone. Experiments with human scents may be interesting experiments (and others have tried) but I believe that ultimately they won't be useful in perfumery. Hope this is somewhat coherent-- I'm really tired. ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 > On Apr 12, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Anya wrote: > > I foresee a few problems with this, Adam: > > > > 1. The FDA or some other regulatory agency will probably step in to > > govern anything that has human essence in it. > > 2. All pheromones are not created equal, or equally desirable to all. > > The age and sex of the participant comes into factor, plus the fact > > that a pheromone that might appeal to one person won't appeal to the > > next. We are governed by our noses, and accept or reject a potential > > mate based on that. Animal essences, I believe, and Salaam can > > correct me, are sexual, yet neutral in this sense, so their use in > > perfumes is more apt to " work " . > > Understood. I intend to experiment however. I think of women I've > known who smelled uncannily sweet...... That's your clue Adam They smell uncannily sweet *To You*. I had a girlfriend who swooned over her latest date - I asked her WTF? WHY? She said he smelled incredible. To me he smelt like an unwashed rugby shirt (that's B A D for those who don't follow Rugby!) and couldn't stand to be smelling distance near him. >Many of us have read of HG Wells: > by all accounts, not the most visually attractive man in the world, > but a serious womanizer; one of his girlfriends is on record saying > that the smell of the man himself was intoxicating. I reckon, with > enough practice and time, human scents, adulterated with all manner > of botanicals, appealing to most could be found. Humm - don't agree. The human mind/emotions is/are so off the beaten track that one size will never fit all. Not even near Trying to capture a human scent has far to many variables - what did they eat (garlic? onion? spice? salt?) When did they wash? what did they use? what toothpaste do they use? If female, what stage of their cycle are they at? (Not to mention intimacy and its last occurrence ;-). To try to control these variables just kicks up others - fear, resentment, excitement, deprivation - all these emotions exert hormonal influences (and changes to body aroma) and would nullify results. I have to say, I find the subject - objectionable - not something I care to go into detail on. Maybe that's just me, but there is no way At All that I would voluntary use a perfume created using someone else's personal scent. To cover my own personal scent with an other's seems totally wrong. Why would I want to DO that??? Adam, I think you are running up a blind ally without thinking about the brick wall at the end of it. *Perfume* was a novel, a murder/horror story - nothing more. Better to try capture the Beet from Jitterbug :-) You'd stand a greater chance of success..... LLx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 On Apr 12, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Glazer wrote: > I think a lot of people in > this group stay away from the ones that are obtained > through cruelty. You are right to share the > information with the group. (Nikki's Response): Hi - The only problem with that statement is that no one can ever really know how each and every animal is treated in this process. I guess the point I am trying to make is that this " need " for an " animal/ pungent/musk " smell is just us humans trying to capture the uncapture- able. We don't " need " this, we want it to make a so-called " Great Scent " . Again, just because other people have created and do create modern perfumes with these ingredients, doesn't mean we have to. You wouldn't jump off a building just becasue someone told you to........ These animals aren't being used in a way that is helping humankind (or our industry) so that is my point, what's the point? I feel like you can't buy these products and blindly turn away from the practice. If you are going to support this mostly inhumane practice than you should go and capture your own Civet or Musk Deer and get the excrement that way (that way you can make sure these creatures are treated with the respect all living things deserve). No matter how many times you say that it is necessary, it will never be necessary to trade an animals well-being and life for a perfume. To quote Gandhi: " the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated " I think that says a lot (sorry had to throw some spiritual stuff in there!) I appreciate your point and I am glad that we can debate! Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 > > > I think a lot of people in > > this group stay away from the ones that are obtained > > through cruelty. You are right to share the > > information with the group. > > (Nikki's Response): > > Hi - > > The only problem with that statement is that no one can ever really > know how each and every animal is treated in this process. Nikki, You're preaching to the choir. I would never use civet, castoreum or musk. I have no interest in those scents because I believe they are all obtained through cruelty. I do think that there are alternatives and that the alternatives are worth exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 I tested civet, castoreum, and ambergris. The clear winner is ambergris, and not only because it's cruelty free. It's both the most tenacious of the 3 and the most subtle. They all smell like dried cow manure to some extent, with slight differences. The civet smells most like urine. Castoreum I find more agreeable, but not as subtle as ambergris. The ambergris is slightly dry-manure like, with some hay, and, quite as Chandler Burr described in his column Scent Notes, speaking of the synthetic version, Cetalox Laevo, " like an animal's breath. " You can tell it's derived from an animal, but it's harder to tell how than with the other two. Does anyone have any rough estimates for how ambergris might equate in recipes that call for civet and castoreum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Adam Gottschalk <adam@...> wrote: I tested Does anyone have any rough estimates for how ambergris might equate in recipes that call for civet and castoreum? Hi Adam Salaam's site on animal notes is very informative http://www.profumo.it. He knows alot about this and has travelled to their habitats. Janita Ascent http://www.hayspace.co.uk . --------------------------------- Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 On Sep 4, 2007, at 8:30 AM, perfumenatural wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to buy some animal scents like ambergris, civet in very > small quantities so that I can experience tincture making with them. > > I live in portugal so is there anyplace nearby that I can buy from. > > Thanks, > > Angi profumo.it has 4 or 5 animal scents (in Italy as you can probably tell), including ambergris and castoreum and civet. They have small bottles and large, and I'm sure Salaam would be happy to send you samples. Tell him you're a member of this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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