Guest guest Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 Yehoshua Zohar wrote: <Not true in swimming. Technique is more important than strength. See: Councillman, Terry Laughlin for example. Forbes Carlile feels that you can even have too much strength in swimming and this will actually slow you down! The reason has to do with water resistance which increases in the cube to force applied. Today the trend in swimming is the lessening of resistance (streamlining) and not the increase of force. > Mel Siff: <How does that simplistic view of physics relate to the strength of the swimmer? If anything, since the hydrodynamic resistance increases according to a power law, the stronger swimmer must be able to cope more competently against the increased resistance. When others commented on your letter, they were not implying that strength be developed in the total absence of strength. They were implying that, all other things being equal, the stronger and more powerful swimmer must be able to propel his/her body faster through the water. Their meaning was misinterpreted or they needed to spell it out a little more explicitly. > Yehoshua Zohar: One would assume that all other things being equal (which they rarely are) the more powerfull swimmer will be faster. From my own experience and from what I've read, this is not always the case. A more " slippery " swimmer who causes less water resistance will swim faster than a more powerful swimmer who is not and who may actually create more resistance. Basically what I am trying to say is that the relationship between weight training and swimming is not a simple equation. *** You still have not explained how a cubic power law shows that " too much strength " can slow you down in water and by implication, why this does not happen on land. We simply cannot continue to ignore that remark of yours because you invoked the strict laws of physics to support your claim - we now need to see the missing lines in the alleged hydrodynamic proof. " Slipperiness " or drag is not a function of strength or any other result of weight training, unless you are implying that strength training always increases size and frontal area of the swimmer. Note that we are not referring to the hypertrophic effects of weight training, but its ability to enhance motor qualities such as strength, power, rate of force development, local muscle endurance and so forth - therefore, this point does not apply. If you do consider that heavy weight training necessarily increases bodymass and size, then we simply have to cite the case of Olympic weightlifters whose strength often increases from year to year, but they remain in exactly the same bodymass division. Certainly, if you wish, you can use weights to bulk up and increase the shoulder cross-sectional area which serves as frontal area while you are propelling yourself through water, but that would not be appropriate sport specific strength training for swimming. So, kindly offer some scientific evidence to support your statement that " .... a more powerful swimmer ...... may actually create more resistance. " Your focus here was on greater power and not greater frontal area, so I simply cannot accept your remarks until I see them supported by clear scientific proof. One also needs to be extremely cautious about drawing simplistic conclusions about water resistance (as opposed to buoyancy and resistive effects) compared with air resistance. In this regard we must point out that air is more kinematically viscous than water - its ratio of fluid viscosity to fluid density is higher and it is this ratio which matters in fluid dynamics (see Dickinson M Solving the Mysteries of Insect Flight " Scientific American " , June 2001: p56). You also stated: " One would assume that all other things being equal (which they rarely are) the more powerful swimmer will be faster. " Right! Let's not compare two different swimmers, but the same swimmer before and after appropriate sport specific strength training. Suppose that this swimmer increases her strength, power and rate of force development by 20 percent, and she still does sufficient technical training so that her swimming skills are not significantly impaired - would you still say that she may swim more slowly because she is more powerful? COUNSILMAN In your original letter, you very seriously misrepresented the innovative 'Doc' Counsilman, whom many of us met over the years. Have you honestly read any of his material? You implied that he did not think that strength was really important. On the contrary, anyone who heard his presentations or read his books would very soon have discovered his great respect for the development of " functional " strength and power. Here is an extract of an article that relates to this issue: <http://www.indiana.edu/~hplab/counsilman_tribute.html> < From the physiologist's perspective the origin of much of Doc's important writings can be traced back as far as his doctoral dissertation. Completed in 1952 and published in 1955 Doc focused upon the application of force a swimmer develops while swimming. In addition to initiating his theories in biomechanics, however, Doc recognized that one of the limiting factors to the application of force was MUSCULAR STRENGTH (my emphasis). Thus, in 1954 an article entitled " Does weight training belong in the physical education program? " derived from a symposium he organized, illustrated his early interest in the correct techniques for improving muscular strength. In 1960 Doc detailed dry land exercises appropriate for swimmers. In 1961, he described isometric and isotonic exercises which would optimize the ability to produce force in the water. These lines of inquiry were developed further by a series of articles leading to the highly important description of Bernoulli's principles in swimming. Doc recognized that force per se is only one component of what the physicist refers to as " work " - Work being equal to a " force multiplied by the displacement. " The problem, Doc recognized, was in the identification of hand displacement. Through hours of underwater photography and careful observation, it wasn't long before he realized that rather than how much work was done, it was actually how much work could be done in a limited amount of time that was crucial. In the physicists' world this is defined as " POWER " . Beginning in 1976, Doc published a series of landmark articles entitled " Power what is it and how to use it " and " Fast exercises for fast muscles and faster athletes. " In 1977 he authored " Speed: the third dimension in exercise? " and again in 1977 he published " Swimming Power. " In the early 80s Doc raised the level of sophistication another notch higher. He proposed that although speed and power were important, it was actually an increase in the two throughout the length of hand displacement that was critical. In 1981 he authored, " The importance of hand speed and acceleration in swimming the crawl stroke " and in 1983, " Hand speed and acceleration. A scientific approach " ....... > So, knowing now what Doc Counsilman REALLY believed and taught, do you now disagree with him? Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA Supertraining/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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