Use of Disabled Facilities

[Guest guest]

Just for the sake of thoroughness, here are a few more comments to elaborate

on how we surveyed the users of disabled parking.

We worded our questions very carefully. In my original letter, I mentioned

that my paraplegic wife (wheeling around the parking lot in her chair) asked

parkers a polite, non-confrontational question, just as if she, as a person

in a wheelchair, was conducting a consumer survey. She enquired " excuse my

curiosity, but may I ask what disability you have? Do you have any comments

you would like to make about how adequate disabled parking is for you and if

there are any improvements you would like to see? " I followed her example

and, in this manner, we were able to poll the situation without relying on

visual observation alone. There were a few who were openly hostile and

refused to talk to us, so that is why we had to state that some people did

not seem to show any significant disability. If they did not reply, then we

were forced to make some conclusions on the basis of their usually brisk walk

into the shops. That is how we came to the conclusion that the majority of

disabled permit users in our surveys did not have any significant

disabilities.

While we are on this topic, this raises a far worse situation than the

illicit or selfish use of disabled parking, namely the use of disabled

toilets by the able-bodied. This happens even more often than the misuse of

disabled parking and the occupants are almost invariably extremely hostile.

They seem totally ignorant of the fact that many disabled folk have little or

no bowel and bladder control and, if they are warned by hyperreflexia, that

they " have to go " , then they simply cannot wait for even a few minutes like

any able-bodied person.

The result of that selfishness and callousness is that some disabled person

messes their wheelchair and, besides the dreadful inconvenience and

embarrassment of being covered in one's own waste, that person still has to

transfer back to her/his car, drive home and spend the rest of the day undress

ing, transferring to a shower, washing, washing chair, washing clothes and

doing a variety of other unnecessary chores that take one whole day out of

that person's life - not to mention the frustration, pain, anger and

humiliation. That is why no able-bodied or lesser disabled person should

never use the disabled bathroom, even if one does not see any wheelchair

person in sight. Maybe disabled bathrooms need to have prominent signs

summarising what can happen to a disabled person if you steal their

facilities.

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote:

<While we are on this topic, this raises a far worse situation than the

illicit or selfish use of disabled parking, namely the use of disabled

toilets by the able-bodied. >

Mel, it's my understanding that the " wheelchair " sign on toilets is one

that indicates the facility is accessible to wheelchairs, not that it is

restricted to wheelchair or other disabled people. Thus, many

establishments have the little blue sign on their ONLY toilet.

If this is incorrect, I'd like to know. For I am one of the guilty parties

in this case.

[i am not sure about the position in the USA. All I know is that my wife

OFTEN has major problems because of some able-bodied women spending 10-20

minutes

at a time in disabled accessible toilets. My feeling is that if one has a

personal emergency,

then one may use a disabled toilet, but try to use it as quickly as possible.

That is why I

even attach that computer generated note on the door of any disabled toilet that

I may use,

telling any disabled person to knock if they need to use it. Those who design

facilities should

at least provide one toilet each for able-bodied and disabled. One toilet is

not enough for any

commercially used facility that serves the public.

Forgetting the disabled issue for the meantime, all airlines are notorious for

providing inadequate

toilet facilities for anyone. This is one of the reasons that I find long

distance flight very stressful.

And it is a total nightmare for any seriously disabled person! Mel Siff ]

Madeline Chen

Colorado Springs, CO

Madeline Chen

Project Consultant

719-338-6757

[Guest guest]

With regard to the signage on the restrooms, I agree with Madeline, at least

what I've seen locally here in Denver and the Colorado area in general.

It's often labeled " wheelchair accessible " - and likely the ONLY restroom in

many establishments.

With regard to usage of the handicapped stall in our health club though -

I'd have to say most usage is women changing THEIR CLOTHES! thus making it

unavailable to ANY person needing restroom for normal activity....THAT is

something that really needs to be answered by gym managers. EITHER provide

areas that are curtained off for the unusually modest (in this day and age

of open locker rooms....) or find some way to accommodate such changing

activities. In fact, I have seen 3 of the 4 stalls in the restroom occupied

by clothing changers rather than persons doing what would be normally a more

usual act.... you can tell because of the clothing strewn around and other

obvious clothing changing behaviors.....the clanging of hangers, etc. IS

this a problem in the men's locker room? Are men so modest as to occupy the

restrooms for changing their clothes???

But I can see one other reason for using the larger stall marked for

handicapped access. For some reason, most restroom stalls are too small for

a larger person or one with challenges of flexibility to negotiate without

injury now. Spacious corridors, wasted room....and then tiny stalls,

crammed with huge dispensers, and difficulty actually SITTING down or

getting up without being bruised or cut in some instances. Challenges in

getting the door open or closed wihtout injury as well. And these are meant

for usage by MOST of the ladies - thus allowing preservation for the truly

needy of the larger stall. The only stall where one can go swiftly in and

out without such injury is the handicapped stall.

So perhaps a review of such conventional design of the restrooms is in

order? Also providing MORE facilities for women - due to the longer period

of time needed for such activities....

It is an overall case to consider I think, not just the handicapped

facilities and accommodations. And you may laugh, but if one is dealing

with the comfort of guests and visitors and you are designing a new

club......perhaps you could try to get it right up front?

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, Powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-----Original Message-----

Madeline Chen:

<Mel, it's my understanding that the " wheelchair " sign on toilets is one

that indicates the facility is accessible to wheelchairs, not that it is

restricted to wheelchair or other disabled people. Thus, many

establishments have the little blue sign on their ONLY toilet.

If this is incorrect, I'd like to know. For I am one of the guilty parties

in this case. >

Mel Siff:

<I am not sure about the position in the USA. All I know is that my wife

OFTEN has major problems because of some able-bodied women spending 10-20

minutes at a time in disabled accessible toilets. My feeling is that if one has

a

personal emergency, then one may use a disabled toilet, but try to use it as

quickly as

possible. That is why I even attach that computer generated note on the door of

any disabled toilet

that I may use, telling any disabled person to knock if they need to use it.

Those who

design facilities should at least provide one toilet each for able-bodied and

disabled. One toilet

is not enough for any commercially used facility that serves the public.

Forgetting the disabled issue for the meantime, all airlines are notorious

for providing inadequate toilet facilities for anyone. This is one of the

reasons that I find long

distance flight very stressful. And it is a total nightmare for any seriously

disabled person! >

[Guest guest]

A couple of comments I'd like to make about the use of disabled

restrooms (toilets to us in the UK), from the perspective of a

parent:

1. quite often (in the UK at least) the disabled toilet often doubles

as baby changing facility. Which, is less than ideal.

[it is impressive to sometimes come across male toilets in the

USA which provide baby changing facilities to cater for fathers who

may be out with the children. Mel Siff ]

2. if you do have children in pushchairs, then the disabled toilet

allows you to take them in with you.

3. if I have to take my daughters (7 and 4 years old) to a public

toilet, it is often much more convenient (safe) to let them both go

into a disabled toilet, where I can stand " guard " outside the door,

than let them go on their own into a female toilet. In addition (I

don't if it's a male thing), but the state of mens toilets can be

disgusting and ... I won't go into detail, but suffice to say I'd

rather not let them use them.

[interestingly, the garage restroom facilities for travellers in South Africa

on long journeys are of a far higher standard than those in the USA,

Canada, UK or Europe. They are usually immaculately clean, often

contain plants, shower-rooms, and are bright, colourful, always tiled with

attractive ceramics - and the staff in attendance are always friendly,

helpful and accommodating. The equivalent facilities in the US, as in the

UK tend to be filthy and primitive. Camping facilities in the US are far more

uncivilised and dirtier than in many parts of Third World Africa, especially

in National Parks, which makes camping dreadful for the disabled. Game Parks

in Africa often provide three to five star accommodation and exceptional

service,

with guides who are absolute gems. And, if you wish to rough it without

any modern facilities at all, you also have that choice. Mel Siff ]

I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere - but certainly in the UK

a number of the disabled toilets are locked and need a special key

to unlock them. Thus, in theory at least, limiting their use to those

who truly do need to use them...the disabled.

[by the way, my disabled wife and I have travelled quite widely

throughout the UK and found that facilities for the disabled generally

are poor. I have travelled extensively throughout the East, West,

Australia and Africa and found that the USA by far has the best nationwide

facilities for the disabled. If you are a disabled tourist in beautiful

Italy, the experience is a nightmare, especially if you are there in summer

and you cannot gain access to air-conditioned shops to help regulate your body

temperature. Alitalia Airlines are often unhelpful, rude and uncaring, much

like Olympic in Greece. British Airlines do not even allow you to prebook

guaranteed seating until you arrive at the airport, while staff at Heathrow

Airport

often tend to be minimally helpful, authoritarian and aloof. Mel Siff ]

Mark Bentley

Glastonbury, UK

---------------------------

" Schaefer " <thephantom198@i...> wrote:

> With regard to the signage on the restrooms, I agree with Madeline,

at least

> what I've seen locally here in Denver and the Colorado area in

general.

> It's often labeled " wheelchair accessible " - and likely the ONLY

restroom in

> many establishments.

>

> With regard to usage of the handicapped stall in our health club

though -

> I'd have to say most usage is women changing THEIR CLOTHES! thus

making it

> unavailable to ANY person needing restroom for normal

activity....THAT is

> something that really needs to be answered by gym managers. EITHER

provide

> areas that are curtained off for the unusually modest (in this day

and age

> of open locker rooms....) or find some way to accommodate such

changing

> activities. In fact, I have seen 3 of the 4 stalls in the restroom

occupied

> by clothing changers rather than persons doing what would be

normally a more

> usual act.... you can tell because of the clothing strewn around and

other

> obvious clothing changing behaviors.....the clanging of hangers,

etc. IS

> this a problem in the men's locker room? Are men so modest as to

occupy the

> restrooms for changing their clothes???

>

> But I can see one other reason for using the larger stall marked for

> handicapped access. For some reason, most restroom stalls are too

small for

> a larger person or one with challenges of flexibility to negotiate

without

> injury now. Spacious corridors, wasted room....and then tiny

stalls,

> crammed with huge dispensers, and difficulty actually SITTING down

or

> getting up without being bruised or cut in some instances.

Challenges in

> getting the door open or closed wihtout injury as well. And these

are meant

> for usage by MOST of the ladies - thus allowing preservation for the

truly

> needy of the larger stall. The only stall where one can go swiftly

in and

> out without such injury is the handicapped stall.

>

> So perhaps a review of such conventional design of the restrooms is

in

> order? Also providing MORE facilities for women - due to the longer

period

> of time needed for such activities....

>

> It is an overall case to consider I think, not just the handicapped

> facilities and accommodations. And you may laugh, but if one is

dealing

> with the comfort of guests and visitors and you are designing a new

> club......perhaps you could try to get it right up front?