Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Mark Reifkind wrote: <One of the problems seems to be that many adults have lost the " natural " breathing pattern that most children seem to have. If you watch most kids breathe you'll notice their little tummies going in and out like a bellows. Classic belly breathers. So many adults are conditioned never to let their stomachs out that they either keep them pulled in all the time or lose strength in the ab muscles to actually use them for exhalation. Endurance athletes (especially runners)know this since breath control is vital to their sport. I see a lot of people who have very tight upper trapezii, scalenes and levator scapula from chest breathing (among other things).> *** All too often we come across the concept that infants and primitive tribesfolk instinctively have more efficient postures, breathing patterns and movement skills than any Western adults who have lost this 'natural ability' to do many motor activities right. During the period while I was doing my Masters in brain research I had considerable contact with a host of different " alternative " folk, technicians, Rolfers, meditators, yogi, applied kinesiologists, and so forth, and the belief seemed to be very common that babies and jungle folk instinctively did all things motor in just the " right " way. Many scientists today have questioned various myths associated with the theory of the " noble savage " . A lazy or inactive child or noble savage is just as likely to execute motor and breathing tasks as a lazy or inactive Western adult. Many of them seemed to forget: 1. The fact that many babies and jungle dwellers display many inefficient motor and breathing abilities 2. The fact that the infant anatomy is not a miniature duplicate of adult anatomy. For one thing, the spine of the infant has not even developed the typical adult spinal curvatures or the ability to effectively use the accessory muscles of respiration (see books such as Kapandji " Physiology of the Joints " ). 3. The fact that great efficiency of posture, movement and breathing is a learned skill, most commonly associated with participation in sufficiently demanding regular physical activity. 4. The fact that there is no 'ideal' pattern for doing anything, because there is always a wide range of individual variation. 5. There is nothing " wrong " with using the accessory muscles of respiration when the task becomes strenuous enough. As I remarked in an earlier letter, it is only if one habitually uses these muscles under resting conditions that this type of breathing pattern may be deemed to be inefficient. Now for the really interesting underlying idea - besides some differences in respiratory muscle action, what is really the difference in efficiency between so-called " belly breathing " and " chest breathing " , assuming that there is minimal action of the accessory muscles of respiration in both cases (i.e., minimal chest heaving and shoulder elevation)? Besides the yogic proclamations as to its superiority, is there any research which shows that belly breathing is 'functionally' superior to natural chest breathing during which the breather makes no intentional effort either to expand the chest or the abdomen? After all, the distension of the belly is really a secondary effect of the breathing process - it happens because the elastic diaphragm pushes downwards towards the stomach during inhalation, creating an intra-abdominal pressure which naturally tends to force the abdominal wall outwards. The abdominal muscles do not initiate or fundamentally control the inhalation - relaxed exhalation simply is a consequence of reflexive diaphragmatic action. Paralyse the abdominal muscles (yes, that famous TVA muscle as well) and you will still be able to breathe; paralyse the diaphragm and you will soon suffocate. Please do not think that I am simply being contentious here, because I have naturally learned to belly breathe through years of yoga and various sports, but I now begin to question more deeply everything that I learned during my past. Accepting something because it suits me and because I like it is no valid reason for concluding that this thing is scientifically correct or superior to other things. I simply want to see the evidence showing why belly breathing is so good for me and anyone else who is curious about this idea. If it is wrong, then I want to be among the first to belly laugh about the whole silly issue! If it is correct, then I want to be able to quote the scientific scriptures that deem it to be so. However, my gut feeling (pun intended) is that there is a variety of breathing patterns which may be used for any given task at a given time. And for some folk, a combination of belly and chest breathing may even be better than a simple emphasis on either. For many of us, it might even be essential to periodically punctuate our breathing by brief episodes of sighs, deep breaths or accessory muscle assisted breathing to enhance overall efficiency of respiration - and there is evidence that this is exactly what appears to be the case. You will even notice that we periodically hold our breath and change our rate and pattern of breathing even when we are at rest, so that we cannot unquestioningly accept beliefs about belly-based concepts of breathing. Maybe there are even patterns of respiration during which chest and belly action alternate in dominance, so that it is perfectly natural to breathe " from the belly " for part of the time and " from the chest " for the rest of the time. Maybe this sort of contingency plan facilitates recovery of some working or postural muscles to enhance overall efficiency. Who knows? Has anyone come across any serious research articles on breathing mechanics like this? The whole idea of breathing displaying prolonged simpler harmonic (or sinusoidal) patterns of inhalation and exhalation may even be seriously flawed, for it may be that breathing, like our cardiac 'rhythm', tends to be more 'chaotic' (following the principles of nonlinear dynamics which some of us discussed recently) and that any attempts to enforce greater long-term regularity could be counterproductive. Burkhardt commented: <Noted *wellness* guru Weil makes a big deal about breathing, and how to do it *correctly* for maximum health benefits. I'm pretty suspicious of the claims he makes regarding the importance of proper breathing on health. > *** It would be interesting to see what Weil really knows about the physiology and biomechanics of breathing under different conditions. It would be especially interesting to see if he has ever cited a single reference which has scientifically compared the relative efficiencies of different types of breathing. Many of us have read the same old Eastern or yogic texts or taken part in what those philosophies teach, but, while that may suggest some interesting research projects, it does not automatically prove that we know what we are talking about. It is fallacious to state that a person suffers from or recovers slowly from asthma attacks, colds, 'flu or other respiratory ailments because of 'bad' breathing habits - this may well be putting the cart before the horse, because the ailment is what alters the breathing pattern. Has anyone actually shown that non-Weil breathing patterns or chest-breathing patterns causally correlate with any diseases? PRACTISING AND PREACHING I appreciate that what I am about to write is rather peripheral to the issue, but it always intrigues me that Weil can attract such a following and preach about everything in health and wellness, yet he is significantly overweight ( " overfat " ), hardly the picture of physical fitness and looks rather old for his age. While I know that some very ill people can be great teachers of health and fitness, it still seems very contradictory for someone like Weil, who has no form of disability or serious disease, to look like the average overindulgent Westerner who can hardly walk around the block without puffing. My apologies, Dr Weil, but as an athlete and health practitioner who does his best to practise and look like what I preach, I still struggle with this! Maybe years of athletic chauvinism has made me overcritical, but to me this looks a lot like a priest preaching the scriptures but running a brothel behind the scenes! I am sure that Weil is a most likeable, marvellous and interesting man, but the health and fitness professions tend to identify more with those who practise and look like what they preach. Maybe his intended audience which is anthropomorphically similar to Weil identifies with him for that very reason, while they would never identify with the physiques of Olympic athletes. Maybe he knows exactly what he is doing. Then again, Dr , who started the aerobics craze, has always looked lean, mean and fit, and he has been eminently successful in his health profession endeavours. Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA Supertraining/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Mark: One of the problems seems to be that many adults have lost the " natural " breathing pattern that most children seem to have. If you watch most kids breathe you'll notice their little tummies going in and out like a bellows. Classic belly breathers. So many adults are conditioned never to let their stomachs out that they either keep them pulled in all the time or lose strength in the ab muscles to actually use them for exhalation. Endurance athletes (especially runners)know this since breath control is vital to their sport. I see a lot of people who have very tight upper trapezii, scalenes and levator scapula from chest breathing (among other things). Roy: There is a danger with this approach of treating breathing as a function we can improve by consciously controlling it. Mark: This is true is one were to assume that everything is functioning properly(naturally) but what if the mechanisms involved are dysfunctional? -------------------- Mark Reifkind San USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Mark: One of the problems seems to be that many adults have lost the " natural " breathing pattern that most children seem to have. If you watch most kids breathe you'll notice their little tummies going in and out like a bellows. Classic belly breathers. So many adults are conditioned never to let their stomachs out that they either keep them pulled in all the time or lose strength in the ab muscles to actually use them for exhalation. Endurance athletes (especially runners)know this since breath control is vital to their sport. I see a lot of people who have very tight upper trapezii, scalenes and levator scapula from chest breathing (among other things). Roy: There is a danger with this approach of treating breathing as a function we can improve by consciously controlling it. Mark: This is true is one were to assume that everything is functioning properly(naturally) but what if the mechanisms involved are dysfunctional? -------------------- Mark Reifkind San USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 At 09:04 AM 4/18/01 -0700, you wrote: >Endurance athletes (especially runners)know this since >breath control is vital to their sport. I agree, and so do singers. I note that the feeling of coldness in the hands and feet that those with nervous irritation leading to pain normally experience isn't nearly so acute if the patient is in the choir, or if they work out aerobically, or if they are in a yoga or martial arts discipline. As someone has suggested, the cultural " ideal " of abdominal flatness achieved by elevating the diaphragm strongly discourages normal breathing yet, I find, it is commonly done. It is even encouraged by the PT community at times. A brochure printed by my national association for the general public three years ago said " don't just wear your stomach muscles, pull them in! " Unfortunately, people feel that if they breath like Pavarotti that they will look like him, or if they let their gut out, no one will love them. I'm not kidding. Another aspect of this I've found important is the resting posture of the legs. If you have someone lie supine and observe the distance between their feet and their willingness to allow external rotation of the hips, you'll often find that their more symptomatic side is " at attention " and the other side less so. This internal rotation and adduction of the hip not only increases neural tension (a biomechanical fact) but, I find, it distinctly restricts diaphragmatic excursion, probably by some interference of a contracted psoas. Try it on yourself and you'll see what I mean immediately. Normal breathing is much easier while supine with the hips abducted and externally rotated, but, like diaphragmatic breathing, such a thing is counter-cultural. Barrett L. Dorko, P.T. " The Clinician's Manual " <http://barrettdorko.com> Also at <http://rehabedge.com> And <http://prorehabonline.com> And <http://physicaltherapist.com> And <http://rehabmax.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 At 09:04 AM 4/18/01 -0700, you wrote: >Endurance athletes (especially runners)know this since >breath control is vital to their sport. I agree, and so do singers. I note that the feeling of coldness in the hands and feet that those with nervous irritation leading to pain normally experience isn't nearly so acute if the patient is in the choir, or if they work out aerobically, or if they are in a yoga or martial arts discipline. As someone has suggested, the cultural " ideal " of abdominal flatness achieved by elevating the diaphragm strongly discourages normal breathing yet, I find, it is commonly done. It is even encouraged by the PT community at times. A brochure printed by my national association for the general public three years ago said " don't just wear your stomach muscles, pull them in! " Unfortunately, people feel that if they breath like Pavarotti that they will look like him, or if they let their gut out, no one will love them. I'm not kidding. Another aspect of this I've found important is the resting posture of the legs. If you have someone lie supine and observe the distance between their feet and their willingness to allow external rotation of the hips, you'll often find that their more symptomatic side is " at attention " and the other side less so. This internal rotation and adduction of the hip not only increases neural tension (a biomechanical fact) but, I find, it distinctly restricts diaphragmatic excursion, probably by some interference of a contracted psoas. Try it on yourself and you'll see what I mean immediately. Normal breathing is much easier while supine with the hips abducted and externally rotated, but, like diaphragmatic breathing, such a thing is counter-cultural. Barrett L. Dorko, P.T. " The Clinician's Manual " <http://barrettdorko.com> Also at <http://rehabedge.com> And <http://prorehabonline.com> And <http://physicaltherapist.com> And <http://rehabmax.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I have a friend who has studied and taught yoga for over 30 years. He has also researched its history and found that yoga breathing techniques are a relatively new practise. He is critical of many of the breathing exercises taught in yoga. The earliest text he could find spoke only of the 'correct attitude' toward breathing and not of specific techniques! As for whether the belly breathing of children is right or wrong I found this quote by biologist Herbet Spencer which might shed some light on the subject:- " Each faculty acquires fitness of its function by performing its function; and if its function is performed for it by a substituted agency, none of the required adjustment of nature takes place, but the nature becomes deformed to fit the artificial arrangements instead of the natural arrangements. " When my daughter was born she had a dislocated hip and had to wear a brace that held both legs up and out to the sides. This had the effect of fixing the lower part of her body and in my mind restricting all movement (including the ribcage. The doctors assured us that it was not uncomfortable but I did notice alot of activity in her shoulders and neck which I presumed was necessary to get air into her lungs. When the brace was removed this pattern disappeared after 2 days and she became a much happier baby. I agree with Dr Siff that a child is not necessarily a good example of 'natural' activity - either due to structural differences or 'artificial arrangements'. These artifical breathing arrangements could be one factor in the rise of asthma in the young. Could inactivity in many of today's young account for poor breathing? Sitting slumped in front of the TV/computer is perhaps not the best conditioning. Roy Palmer Bedford UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Mel> : > 5. There is nothing " wrong " with using the > accessory muscles of respiration > when the task becomes strenuous enough. As I > remarked in an earlier letter, > it is only if one habitually uses these muscles > under resting conditions that > this type of breathing pattern may be deemed to be > inefficient. mark; This is what I was referring to Mel. the clients I was speaking about CANNOT breathe any other way. They use the accesory muscles as primary and this is where the problem lies, I believe. Its one thing to have been trained in Yoga, or martial arts or in endurance training and have a variety of breathing options available to you, but if you constantly get head and neck aches because you can't activate the primary muscle sof respiration its something idfferent, wouldn't you agree? > MeL: > Now for the really interesting underlying idea - > besides some differences in > respiratory muscle action, what is really the > difference in efficiency > between so-called " belly breathing " and " chest > breathing " , assuming that > there is minimal action of the accessory muscles of > respiration in both cases > (i.e., minimal chest heaving and shoulder > elevation)? Mark; I think the difference would become quite clear if you were running or cycling at a fairly intense level. You would severely limit O2 intake, no? For low intesity activities it might not make much of a difference, unless you got pain from it. Mel: Besides the yogic > proclamations as to its superiority, is there any > research which shows that > belly breathing is 'functionally' superior to > natural chest breathing during > which the breather makes no intentional effort > either to expand the chest or > the abdomen? > > After all, the distension of the belly is really a > secondary effect of the > breathing process - it happens because the elastic > diaphragm pushes downwards > towards the stomach during inhalation, creating an > intra-abdominal pressure > which naturally tends to force the abdominal wall > outwards. The abdominal > muscles do not initiate or fundamentally control the > inhalation - relaxed > exhalation simply is a consequence of reflexive > diaphragmatic action. mark; So should it properly be called diaphrgmatic breathing,not belly breathing? Mel: > Paralyse the abdominal muscles (yes, that famous TVA > muscle as well) and you > will still be able to breathe; paralyse the > diaphragm and you will soon > suffocate. > > > Maybe there are even patterns of respiration during > which chest and belly > action alternate in dominance, so that it is > perfectly natural to breathe > " from the belly " for part of the time and " from the > chest " for the rest of > the time. Maybe this sort of contingency plan > facilitates recovery of some > working or postural muscles to enhance overall > efficiency. Who knows? Has > anyone come across any serious research articles on > breathing mechanics like > this? > > The whole idea of breathing displaying prolonged > simpler harmonic (or > sinusoidal) patterns of inhalation and exhalation > may even be seriously > flawed, for it may be that breathing, like our > cardiac 'rhythm', tends to be > more 'chaotic' (following the principles of > nonlinear dynamics which some of > us discussed recently) and that any attempts to > enforce greater long-term > regularity could be counterproductive.(this seems very interesting: Mark) > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Re: Proper Breathing? > I have a friend who has studied and taught yoga for over 30 years. He > has also researched its history and found that yoga breathing > techniques are a relatively new practise. He is critical of many of > the breathing exercises taught in yoga. The earliest text he could > find spoke only of the 'correct attitude' toward breathing and not of > specific techniques! He's wrong. Maybe he should have looked a little bit harder then =). Specific Breathing techniques and exercises have been an integral part of various systems of yoga for the past 5,000 years. Just to give one example; Hatha yoga (and its myriad of derivatives) has focused immensely on specific breathing exercises (pranayama) for centuries and the importance of said techniques are stated in the Yoga Sutras of Pantanjali. Kind Regards, Frost Taunton,MA USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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