Box Squats

[Guest guest]

Thank you to Dr Siff and Hermann Korte for their comments regarding

Box/Bench Squats. As Hermann pointed out much more clearly than I did,

the East German Track and Field Athletes used a technique very

different from that of Louie . If anyone knows why they did this,

I would be very interested.

On a related note, I have heard that Professor Verkhoshansky designed

a horse-shoe shaped squat bar, such that when loaded with bumper

plates, they would touch the floor at the bottom of the squat. Has

anyone observed this in action?

[i think that there is a diagram of that device either in the book by Dr Yessis,

" Secrets of Soviet Sports Fitness & Training " or in his journal " Soviet Sports

Review " , both resources which are well worth owning if you want to know more

about Russian sports science and methods of training (Dr Yessis' emial is:

dryessis@...). Anyway, you don't really need sucha device, because

you can improvise on a power rack or plinths which unloads the bar where you

want it to. Mel Siff]

Thankyou.

Iain Styles

Birmingham, UK

ibs@...

[Guest guest]

What do you guys think of box squats for high school football? Also

when doing stiff-legged deads, is it better to do them on a box or from the

floor - my kids do them on the floor? I have them use 25 pound plates. I

have seen

others do them from a bench, but they reach out past the toes and it looks like

this

would hurt the back.

Joe Hallman

Doylestown,Pa

[Guest guest]

Hermann Korte...

<<Box squatting Westside-Style means that you squat by pushing

your glutes backwards so far that your knee is above or eventually behind

your toes.>>

Guten tag, Herr Korte,

How is this possible and still break parallel with the thighs? I can barely

do this with a good morning. Nicht verstehen sie.

Herr Burkhardt

Strength and Conditioning Coach

UC Irvine

[Guest guest]

A very, very wide stance, which necessitate very, very strong hips &

hammies.

After two years of training this way, I can squat to a box 4 " below parallel

with very heavy weight.

Randy Berndt

Arthur Andersen LLP

Business Process Outsourcing

Del Papa Distributing Co., Inc.

RE: Box Squats

Hermann Korte...

<<Box squatting Westside-Style means that you squat by pushing

your glutes backwards so far that your knee is above or eventually behind

your toes.>>

Guten tag, Herr Korte,

How is this possible and still break parallel with the thighs? I can barely

do this with a good morning. Nicht verstehen sie.

Herr Burkhardt

Strength and Conditioning Coach

UC Irvine

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[Guest guest]

jdhallpa@a... wrote:

<What do you guys think of box squats for high school football? >

The lower you go and more explosive the concentric the better it is

for football.

<Also when doing stiff-legged deads, is it better to do them on a box or

from the floor - my kids do them on the floor? >

Do not let them do stiff-legged DLs going that far down...they must

not round the lower back. Do strict RDLs and Good Mornings going only as

low as you can while keeping an arch in the back. Have the kids

stick their butts back as far as possible, then pull the hips

forward.

Wilmington DE

[Guest guest]

Herr Burkhardt wrote:

" Hermann Korte...

Box squatting Westside-Style means that you squat by pushing

your glutes backwards so far that your knee is above or eventually behind

your toes.

Guten tag, Herr Korte,

How is this possible and still break parallel with the thighs? "

Herr Burkhardt,

vielen Dank. My answer comes straight from the famous philosopher Nike:

" Just do it! "

Box squatting this way may not be possible in the beginning. First you use a

box, well over parallel, and build up your hips, hamstrings, glutes.

Gradually lower the box from time to time. In a few weeks you will squat

below parallel on a box and your shins will be perpendicular to the floor.

The wide stance will build your hipstrength but it is even possible to reach

this position in a stance that is a little over shoulder-width. Maybe this

varies from lifter to lifter. I´ll send you some pictures.

Have a nice day,

Hermann

korte@...

Witten,

Germany

[Guest guest]

All right...A layman's explanation. I've been box squatting over 3 years

now.

You'll sit back until your butt is on the box. Now that you on the box,

keep everything, from your glutes up, tight & firm. The only thing you'll

feel that your actually releasing is you're hip joint, you may be relaxing a

lot of other things, but it should feel like your hip joint.

Everything is tight - your shoulder are back, your head is up your back is

arched. Your lower back is not taking any more load than a normal squat.

NEVER PLOP down on the box.

You should sit back until you are on the box. in fact, you should sit so far

back, it will feel like your sitting on your upper hamstrings more than your

butt.

Now that your on the box, fire the hip joint( or whatever it was that you

just relaxed) & get up. Again, " hip joint " is used loosely. That's what it

" Feels Like " to me.

Never rock backwards while on the box. Never round you lower back on the

box.

Randy Berndt

Friendswood, TX

Lester Long wrote:

<<The Westside box squat does include a release of tension from the legs

and

hips. Obviously, one must still keep the trunk tight when sitting on the

box. I find that this release of tension makes the exercise far more

effective.>>

Does this release of tension put too much stress on the lower back? If a

person can squat 450, and is using 60% of that weight for box squats (270

lbs), would having that weight on one's shoulders put too much stress on the

lower back upon the release of tension in the leg and hip muscles? I

understand that there is some release of tension, I'm just trying to gauge

the degree of release of tension. Comments?

Ken Manning

Scranton, PA

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

I've done WSB for the last ten years and have spoken with Louie

numerous times.The idea on box squats a'la Louie is to sit fully back

on the box and totally release the tension in the legs BUT NOT THE

BACK.

The pelvis rotates posteriorly on the box(as it does when one " breaks

parallel) as one sits back as far as possible( to maximally stretch

the posterior chain muscles).BUT the lumbar spine shold not lose its

position(this is the hard part).

The abs are to be kept pushed out on the belt while sitting on the

box and then " re-flexed " to initate the back extension which should

occur first, sequentially, in the ascent(as opposed to pushing

through the legs).The back angle should be kept constant with the

postion you get when sitting on the box.

The key is to release the tension in the legs and then re-flex

them,this is the " static overcome by dynamic " concept that Louie

refers to.This makes coming off the box very difficult. If one does

not release the tension and have to overcome the static position it

changes the type of training you are doing.The stretch reflex would

still contribute to the ascent, I beleive(I'm sure Dr Siff will

correct me if I am wrong.)

Mark Reifkind

San USA

-- In Supertraining@y..., " Ken Manning " <ken52@e...> wrote:

> I have been performing box squats on my dynamic day in my Westside

lifting routine once per week. I was wondering, how much do you

actually " sit down " on the box. From watching the Westside videos of

their squat routine, it appears that they " sit down " a substantial

amount when reaching the box to keep their shins perpendicular to the

ground. I have been keeping all a lot of tension on the muscles

involved and am not sure if I'm releasing enough of the poundage on

the box to get the full benefit of the eccentric-static-concentric

explosive properties of box squatting. Any info would be

appreciated.

>

> thanks

>

> Ken Manning

> Scranton, PA