Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 That's the $64,000 question regarding everything in biology. If you have high blood sugar, does it cause diabetes, or was your blood sugar always higher because you were predisposed to diabetes. Does alcoholism run in families because it is inherited or because it is learned? It is very difficult to answer questions like these we can only speculate. nne Bowker connections > My client base is often " general population " rather than athletic. > This includes a regular stream of women who want to be thinner > and " more toned. " They fear weight because of the old bulk myth, > though recently, the weight room has become a less intimidating place > for women as the research emphasis has shifted to the metabolism > benefits of a little iron hoisting occassionaly. This is thanks is > part to the media as they happily, if not entirely accurately, > extrapolated on that. The old " bulk-up " stigma is finally waning and > non-athletic women are willing to step into the " big boy's room " and > curl and press with the guys, often with better form. > > Some women, albeit rare, will bulk up a bit, and despite the fact > that it's not an aesthetic no-no to us muscle lovin' types, these > women sometimes react as if they're contaminated. That's the > antithesis of the look they want. As much work as we do to resolve > body issues by focusing on performance and lifestyle enhancement, a > bigger muscle still can mean aesthetic failure. > > I've notice a correlation among the women I've encountered that > have " bulking-up " potential. They all, without exception, played > sports during formative years, though it's been a while for most of > them. Now, I haven't a respectable number of subjects to theorize > too greatly, but I'm wondering if this correlation of adolescent > sport involvement and current hypertrophy is worth anything. My > questions are thus, does sport involvement during puberty mess with > testosterone levels in ways that won't ever happen again, but might > set a stage for an increase in type II fiber recruitment? Forgive my > wording, but in other words, can hormone levels (particularly > testosterone) be increased during adolescence and therefore might > have an effect on later muscle developement? > > Or... > Would women with a natural genetic potential for faster twitch fibers > just gravitate towards sports in earlier years (due to " natural > ability " ) and have to just suffer genetics and have larger muscle > potential later in life? > > Chip Conrad > Sacramento, CA > USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 Ok, I am responding to the original posting below. I DID NOT PLAY SPORTS IN MY FORMATIVe YEARS. NOR is my test higher than average, and I pass the USAPL drug tests. I look forward to my first IOC test for an IPF WMR, if I can get the lights white in may. I was an absolute nerd, I threw discus, in high school but without any weight training to support it, then sat down until I took up free weights..... I have done free weights beginning in 1995, and competed powerlifting for just over 4 years now. I am drug free, woman, and 40, not even in perimenopause according to the doc yet. I am a freak of nature. Anyone who's seen my build will say it, lol. I am 5'9, 198, and 32 " waist, with build, and strength. I do not look 40. And the thing is, it's genetics, that give me muscle and growth in size, plus the powerlifting. There are not that many women with this gift. The stat I always heard was 1 to 2% overall have the potential for this gift, the rest run terrified.....laughing. I might eventually take a bet that I can get a bb pro card, clean. But no, not all are people who do as you suggest, some of us are lurking inside nerdy physics sorts.....<laughing> The Phantom <for a look at my build, page 23, POWERMAG, March issue, dead center, the Deadlifter> Re: Women and Weight training >That's the $64,000 question regarding everything in biology. If you >have high blood sugar, does it cause diabetes, or was your blood >sugar always higher because you were predisposed to diabetes. Does >alcoholism run in families because it is inherited or because it is >learned? It is very difficult to answer questions like these we can >only speculate. > >nne Bowker >connections >> My client base is often " general population " rather than athletic. >> This includes a regular stream of women who want to be thinner >> and " more toned. " They fear weight because of the old bulk myth, >> though recently, the weight room has become a less intimidating >place >> for women as the research emphasis has shifted to the metabolism >> benefits of a little iron hoisting occassionaly. This is thanks is >> part to the media as they happily, if not entirely accurately, >> extrapolated on that. The old " bulk-up " stigma is finally waning >and >> non-athletic women are willing to step into the " big boy's room " >and >> curl and press with the guys, often with better form. >> >> Some women, albeit rare, will bulk up a bit, and despite the fact >> that it's not an aesthetic no-no to us muscle lovin' types, these >> women sometimes react as if they're contaminated. That's the >> antithesis of the look they want. As much work as we do to resolve >> body issues by focusing on performance and lifestyle enhancement, a >> bigger muscle still can mean aesthetic failure. >> >> I've notice a correlation among the women I've encountered that >> have " bulking-up " potential. They all, without exception, played >> sports during formative years, though it's been a while for most of >> them. Now, I haven't a respectable number of subjects to theorize >> too greatly, but I'm wondering if this correlation of adolescent >> sport involvement and current hypertrophy is worth anything. My >> questions are thus, does sport involvement during puberty mess with >> testosterone levels in ways that won't ever happen again, but might >> set a stage for an increase in type II fiber recruitment? Forgive >my >> wording, but in other words, can hormone levels (particularly >> testosterone) be increased during adolescence and therefore might >> have an effect on later muscle developement? >> >> Or... >> Would women with a natural genetic potential for faster twitch >fibers >> just gravitate towards sports in earlier years (due to " natural >> ability " ) and have to just suffer genetics and have larger muscle >> potential later in life? >> >> Chip Conrad >> Sacramento, CA >> USA > > > > >Modify or cancel your subscription here: > >mygroups > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 Oh, and one more comment to Chip's original posting.... Sortwell, my good friend, and drug free competitor for 21 years in Powerlifting....once had a blood test for testosterone. She tests out LOWER than average. Yes LOWER. The Phantom -----Original Message----- From: nne <mbowker@...> >That's the $64,000 question regarding everything in biology. If you >have high blood sugar, does it cause diabetes, or was your blood >sugar always higher because you were predisposed to diabetes. Does >alcoholism run in families because it is inherited or because it is >learned? It is very difficult to answer questions like these we can >only speculate. > >nne Bowker >connections >> My client base is often " general population " rather than athletic. >> This includes a regular stream of women who want to be thinner >> and " more toned. " They fear weight because of the old bulk myth, >> though recently, the weight room has become a less intimidating >place >> for women as the research emphasis has shifted to the metabolism >> benefits of a little iron hoisting occassionaly. This is thanks is >> part to the media as they happily, if not entirely accurately, >> extrapolated on that. The old " bulk-up " stigma is finally waning >and >> non-athletic women are willing to step into the " big boy's room " >and >> curl and press with the guys, often with better form. >> >> Some women, albeit rare, will bulk up a bit, and despite the fact >> that it's not an aesthetic no-no to us muscle lovin' types, these >> women sometimes react as if they're contaminated. That's the >> antithesis of the look they want. As much work as we do to resolve >> body issues by focusing on performance and lifestyle enhancement, a >> bigger muscle still can mean aesthetic failure. >> >> I've notice a correlation among the women I've encountered that >> have " bulking-up " potential. They all, without exception, played >> sports during formative years, though it's been a while for most of >> them. Now, I haven't a respectable number of subjects to theorize >> too greatly, but I'm wondering if this correlation of adolescent >> sport involvement and current hypertrophy is worth anything. My >> questions are thus, does sport involvement during puberty mess with >> testosterone levels in ways that won't ever happen again, but might >> set a stage for an increase in type II fiber recruitment? Forgive >>my wording, but in other words, can hormone levels (particularly >> testosterone) be increased during adolescence and therefore might >> have an effect on later muscle developement? >> >> Or... >> Would women with a natural genetic potential for faster twitch >fibers >> just gravitate towards sports in earlier years (due to " natural >> ability " ) and have to just suffer genetics and have larger muscle >> potential later in life? >> >> Chip Conrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 Wayne Hill wrote: At my gym, many of the women will willingly sweat like stuck pigs on cardio equipment, and then proceed to do some of the most ridiculous foo-foo nonsense you've ever seen in the weight area. *** Well at least they will allow themselves to sweat. But you'd be surprised how many don't want to do that either. However, I agree that they don't work hard enough with the weights and you're right about the reason -- why, they'll resembles those grunting bruisers squatting in the rack in no time! (or so they think) In all honesty, unless the gym is warm for whatever reason, I find I don't perspire nearly as much (and in the winter hardly at all) when training with weights versus the kind of sweat I can work up on a treadmill. For the most part, women don't tend to sweat as much as men from physical exertion anyway, so it's rather ironic for those women who don't like to sweat that they would choose cardio over weights. Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon Venice, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 > Wayne Hill wrote: At my gym, many of the women will willingly > sweat like stuck pigs on cardio equipment, and then proceed to do > some of the most ridiculous foo-foo nonsense you've ever seen in the weight area. Rosemary wrote: .. For the most > part, women don't tend to sweat as much as men from physical exertion anyway, At my gym we always said " Women don't sweat, they glisten " . Harvey Maron, M.D. Steamboat Springs, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Ok. Enough. I guess I am now reclassified as a GRUNTING BRUISER IN THE RACK. <Or in our case at the rec center, WITHOUT a rack. Clearly we need our heads examined, for not using mirrors and using the same apparatus we get on the platform.> Exertion is required to acquire trophies in Powerlifting. You don't get muscles for nothing. And it's no less LADYLIKE TO SWEAT AND LIFT AND YELL than it is unbecoming a MALE lifter. If given a chance to excel at lifting weights, WOMEN WILL DO SO IF THEY HAVE THE DESIRE TO. I belong to a hard core women's lifting list on line, that is proof of this. The opportunity to SUCCEED should be given to those who reach for it. The iron sports are not the exclusive domain of men. And the iron sports require your sweat, your heart, and your fierceness to succeed. We all clean up nicely for the awards ceremony, but there are no ribbons given for best eye shadow during performance of a 1 rep max SQUAT <let alone concealer for red face during the deadlift>......... Women with the strength and determination should be encouraged. I shall continue to bend what efforts I can to supporting those who wish to do so, as well as the men in our group. The Phantom -----Original Message----- Wayne Hill wrote: >At my gym, many of the women will willingly >sweat like stuck pigs on cardio equipment, and then proceed to do >some of the most ridiculous foo-foo nonsense you've ever seen in the >weight area. From: Rosemary Wedderburn <CookieMagic@...> >*** Well at least they will allow themselves to sweat. But you'd be surprised >how many don't want to do that either. However, I agree that they don't work >hard enough with the weights and you're right about the reason -- why, they'll >resembles those grunting bruisers squatting in the rack in no time! (or so >they think) > >In all honesty, unless the gym is warm for whatever reason, I find I don't >perspire nearly as much (and in the winter hardly at all) when training with >weights versus the kind of sweat I can work up on a treadmill. For the most >part, women don't tend to sweat as much as men from physical exertion anyway, >so it's rather ironic for those women who don't like to sweat that they would >choose cardio over weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 " Schaefer " <thephantom198@i...> wrote: <Exertion is required to acquire trophies in Powerlifting. You don't get muscles for nothing. And it's no less LADYLIKE TO SWEAT AND LIFT AND YELL than it is unbecoming a MALE lifter. If given a chance to excel at lifting weights, WOMEN WILL DO SO IF THEY HAVE THE DESIRE TO. I belong to a hard core women's lifting list on line, that is proof of this.> To achieve high levels of performance in the Olympic lifts, I really don't believe it's absolutely necessary to yell (or for that matter, scream, make foul emissions or vomit). Such behavior has, in my opinion, more to do with the gym environment rather than the nature of the sport. When I trained at the Sports Palace (22 Olympians, including three men who clean and jerked 500 pounds), I cannot recall ever seeing the bizarre behaviors often displayed by some bodybuilders and powerlifters. The coach, Jim Schmitz, simply didn't tolerate such behavior. [Regrettably, a good few bodybuilding publications, especially one well-known Internet mag, actively seem to promote foulness of action, language and attitude, ostensibly because it makes the readers feel like real " he-men " . They seem to forget that many of the old-time bodybuilding legends, like Bill Pearl, were real gentlemen and a credit to their sport. Mel Siff ] On a similar note, in the last five years at the Air Force Academy I cannot remember our football team ever receiving an unsportsmanlike penalty--not once! Because sometimes even just one penalty can make the difference between winning and losing a game in football, our coaching staff make it clear that such behavior would not be tolerated. Again, it's a matter of environment, not the nature of the sport. [Real men display sportsmanship and dignity, even in the face of defeat or extreme stress. Unfortunately, far too many sportmen today aren't real men! MCS] Thank you, Kim Goss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 > To achieve high levels of performance in the Olympic lifts, I really > don't believe it's absolutely necessary to yell (or for that matter, > scream, make foul emissions or vomit). Such behavior has, in my opinion, more to do > with the gym environment rather than the nature of the sport. When I > trained at the Sports Palace (22 Olympians, including three men who > clean and jerked 500 pounds), I cannot recall ever seeing the bizarre > behaviors often displayed by some bodybuilders and powerlifters. The > coach, Jim Schmitz, simply didn't tolerate such behavior. Given the presence of authority absolutely intolerant of such behavior, that suggests that SOME people do not have to... emote... to produce maximum performance, and that anyone who DID need to would simply be barred from either success or that particular weight room. > > On a similar note, in the last five years at the Air Force Academy > I cannot remember our football team ever receiving an unsportsmanlike > penalty--not once! Because sometimes even just one penalty can make > the difference between winning and losing a game in football, our > coaching staff make it clear that such behavior would not be > tolerated. Again, it's a matter of environment, not the nature of the > sport. > Did it work? What was your win/loss record? Was the correlation in your league between unsportsmanlike penalties and victory strong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Coach Goss, I am not talking about uttering vulgarities (a cause for disqualification), undue eruptions of passing gas or vomiting, or defecating by EITHER gender, but in FAVOR of yelling (the latest issue of PLUSA, April, the Mad Russian's article states you get about 12.5% MORE out of a lift when you " yell " expelling air out during the course of the lift) and getting psyched up, SWEATING due to HARD WORK UNDER THE WEIGHTS as needed by BOTH genders. I do NOT suggest women (or MEN) cease showering. But I don't wear perfume or scented lotions when I lift.....NOR EYE SHADOW or MAKEUP, or PRIMP on the PLATFORM! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! There is TIME ENOUGH FOR THAT AFTER THE MEET, AND AFTER THE WORKOUT! I have actually been told by viewers of my competition photos that " you really should wear lots of makeup, that red face just isn't becoming....and that hair, consider getting it curled or something? " IGNORANCE is bliss apparently...and NO One looks PRETTY with a MAX DEADLIFT! And confusing the studied, primped look of a bodybuilding stage with a demonstration of STRENGTH is part of the PROBLEM! Some lifters do not require the outward psych. It happens I am one that needs it. I am NOT suggesting that vomiting or other really aberrent behaviors need occur. Where did I suggest that? I MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT SUGGEST THIS. What I am SAYING HERE is in regards to this whole FALLACY that WOMEN DON " T SWEAT HARD AND LIFT HARD. Yelling and oofing, breathing hard, and even grunting a bit under a big weight? PART OF THE SPORT. I am VERY Tired of reading how lifting is NOT LADYLIKE. This is NONSENSE. I DID NOT RECOMMEND VOMITING OR ABUSIVE LANGUAGE. IF you read the posting to which I was responding, this whole thread lamented how women don't do weight training but prefer to GLISTEN rather than work hard in the gym and SWEAT! This thread has become a PROMOTION OF MYTHS rather than a realistic attempt to help women join the IRON SPORTS. I know the Air Force PL team people, including Captain Andy Bates. I have competed with them, and without exception, they have been well behaved, BUT LIKE ME, THEIR LIFTERS, MALE AND FEMALE, YELL, AND THEY SWEAT! OK? And the ladies are asked to perform to their best strength JUST LIKE THEIR MALE COUNTERPARTS. No special ACCOMMODATIONS are MADE! Yes, Air Force's football team is well disciplined. And despite the limitations on size of their players placed by the Air Force's entry requirements (resulting generally in a smaller LINE than most colleges now SPORT), THEY DO WELL ON THE FIELD. As a Coloradan, I am proud of their play when I watch them, as an American I know such disciplined play leads to more proficiency at their jobs, protecting ME as an AMERICAN later on! The Phantom -----Original Message----- From: COACHKIMGOSS@... <COACHKIMGOSS@...> " Schaefer " <thephantom198@i...> wrote: ><Exertion is required to acquire trophies in Powerlifting. You >don't get muscles for nothing. And it's no less LADYLIKE TO SWEAT >AND LIFT AND YELL than it is unbecoming a MALE lifter. If given a >chance to excel at lifting weights, WOMEN WILL DO SO IF THEY HAVE THE >DESIRE TO. I belong to a hard core women's lifting list on line, >that is proof of this.> > >To achieve high levels of performance in the Olympic lifts, I really >don't believe it's absolutely necessary to yell (or for that matter, >scream, make foul emissions or vomit). Such behavior has, in my opinion, more to do >with the gym environment rather than the nature of the sport. When I >trained at the Sports Palace (22 Olympians, including three men who >clean and jerked 500 pounds), I cannot recall ever seeing the bizarre >behaviors often displayed by some bodybuilders and powerlifters. The >coach, Jim Schmitz, simply didn't tolerate such behavior. > >[Regrettably, a good few bodybuilding publications, especially one >well-known Internet mag, actively seem to promote foulness of action, language and >attitude, ostensibly because it makes the readers feel like real " he-men " . >They seem to forget that many of the old-time bodybuilding legends, like Bill Pearl, were real gentlemen and a credit to their sport. Mel Siff ] > >On a similar note, in the last five years at the Air Force Academy >I cannot remember our football team ever receiving an unsportsmanlike >penalty--not once! Because sometimes even just one penalty can make >the difference between winning and losing a game in football, our >coaching staff make it clear that such behavior would not be >tolerated. Again, it's a matter of environment, not the nature of the >sport. > >[Real men display sportsmanship and dignity, even in the face of defeat or extreme stress. >Unfortunately, far too many sportmen today aren't real men! MCS] > >Kim Goss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Mel Siff commented: <Regrettably, a good few bodybuilding publications, especially one well-known Internet mag, actively seem to promote foulness of action, language and attitude, ostensibly because it makes the readers feel like real " he-men " . They seem to forget that many of the old-time bodybuilding legends, like Bill Pearl, were real gentlemen and a credit to their sport. > Just taught a workshop at a " he-man " gym, where no-necked, juiced-to-the-gills big boys grunted and shouted like they were being tortured alive. The women played this game a bit too, so I believe the environment does play a big role in gym behavior, like Dr. Siff said. On a cuter note, while attending the IHRSA convention two weeks ago, I witnessed a true gentleman, a LARGE gentleman. At a flower stand right outside our hotel, I witnessed famous strongman Bill Kazmaier delicately pin a tulip to the blouse of an attractive, and tiny, young woman, dwarfed even more so by Bill's 280lb frame. He was all smiles, and when talking to him later, I found him to be quite friendly, though I don't know if he grunts during workouts or not. Chip Conrad Sacramento, CA --- > > On a similar note, in the last five years at the Air Force Academy > I cannot remember our football team ever receiving an unsportsmanlike > penalty--not once! Because sometimes even just one penalty can make > the difference between winning and losing a game in football, our > coaching staff make it clear that such behavior would not be > tolerated. Again, it's a matter of environment, not the nature of >the sport. > > [Real men display sportsmanship and dignity, even in the face of defeat or extreme stress. > Unfortunately, far too many sportmen today aren't real men! MCS] > > Thank you, > > Kim Goss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Schaefer wrote: I guess I am now reclassified as a GRUNTING BRUISER IN THE RACK. *** Actually, , I was referring to the big GUYS who grunt and holler, throw chalk around, slap each other on the butts, and glare menacingly at any woman who ventures within 10 feet of " their " rack. Personally, I love the bruisers. Most are teddybears under the bravado if women would only use the right words to calm them down. I've found either " Gosh, you've got terrific thigh sweep! " or " Gee, your bicep must measure at *least* 21 inches! " work wonders. Even if you're a seasoned female trainer, this sort of comment will let them know that you're a fellow ironhead. I know, I know, women shouldn't have to do this sort of thing in this day and age, but like many males of various species, the bruisers are territorial. They have no caves to guard so they have transferred this behavior to the squat rack or other piece of equipment they happen to be using at the moment. Many women are very put off by this because they feel threatened. After all, most women are well aware that they are no physical match for most men, and especially some guy who has muscles popping in every direction and looks mean. Ladies who are unfamiliar with lifting misinterpret the signals as threatening when they are more than likely gasps for air after a 20 rep set of squats or a torn callus, etc. In additon, these same women have no real knowledge whatsoever about how male and female hormones work. I've talked to several who were clueless about anabolic steroids other than they knew one shot would kill you. Add to that the photos they see of the ripped down women bodybuilders in some of the mags (not realizing that these ladies are not your average woman in any way), and you have this extrapolation that if they work too hard in the gym they will end up looking just like the grunting bruisers in the rack. What's interesting is that when they see a fairly muscular woman in the gym, most think she looks nice and will often comment about what nice shaped thighs she has. Like you, , I have, in the past, tried hard to convince these ladies that the Fountain of Youth is in the gym while keeping my hardcore ironhead ideas to myself until I get around my own kind. Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon Venice, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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