Re: Bench Press and Plate Placement

[Guest guest]

>Forgive me if this is a trivial question but I have always wondered

> if the placement of the plates facing inward or outward on the bench

> press has a effect on the difficulty of the movement?

>

> A guy at a the gym mentioned something about the shape of the plate

> making the exercise more difficult if the plate was faced inward as

> opposed to facing outward.Another interesting point was brought to

> my attention about the placement of plates.

>

> For example if I placed a 25 pound plate then a 10lb and then a 45lb it

> would be more difficult than if I had just placed them from greatest

> to smallest in weight on the bar. Does that make sense?

> Any thoughts on this?

>

> Maki Riddington

> Vancouver BC

As far as I know, plate facing and plate placement have no bearing whatsoever

on the difficulty of the exercise. I really don't think any of us are moving

the bar fast enough for air resistance to be a real factor. At the same time,

I do prefer having the plates all face inward, but it's just kind of an anal

thing. For me, it's kind of like a pre-flight check before I start my set.

It helps me get my mind in order. I also know that, once again on a

psychological level, I occasionally like to put the smaller weights inside the

larger ones so I can pretend they're not there. It's a crude but effective

way of psyching myself out when I suspect that the barrier on a lift is more

psychological than physical.

McClinch

Blacksburg, VA

[Guest guest]

Maki Riddington wrote:

<<Forgive me if this is a trivial question but I have always wondered if the

placement of the plates facing inward or outward on the bench press has an

effect on the difficulty of the movement? >>

Mel Siff:

<This is not a trivial question at all, but actually is one which requires

a good understanding of biomechanics to answer adequately. While the mass on

the bar is exactly the same and the location of the centre of mass (COM) of

the bar is the same, no matter how one symmetrically changes the order of the

plates on each side, the radius of gyration and period of oscillation of the

bar change. In other words, if the heavier weights are placed further from

the COM, the longer will be the period of oscillation of the discs on the

bar. If the lift is heavy and the bar does not flex suddenly or oscillate to

any marked extent, then the order of loading will have no effect on the lift.

Maki Riddington:

<<A guy at a the gym mentioned something about the shape of the plate making

the exercise more difficult if the plate was faced inward as opposed to

facing outward. Another interesting point was brought to my attention about

the placement of plates.

For example, if I placed a 25 pound plate then a 10lb and then a 45lb it

would be more difficult than if I had just placed them from greatest to

smallest in weight on the bar. Does that make sense? >>

Mel Siff:

<As I explained above, this would make little or no difference to a heavy

bench press unless one vigorously bounced the bar off the chest to somehow

set it into marked oscillation, as is the case with the Olympic jerk (and as

it was with the old Olympic standing press). In fact, placing the heavier

discs further out theoretically makes it EASIER to push the bar upwards if

one knows how to 'flick' the bar upward with a marked oscillation initiated

by a little bounce on the chest. If one can time one's thrust to coincide

with the upward flexing of the ends of the bar, then the lift will be easier.

However, if the lifter times the upward thrust out of phase with the oscillation

of the bar, then the situation could arise where the bar acts against him,

rather than for him.

These facts of great importance to competitive powerlifters and

weightlifters. The Olympic weightlifter HAS to learn to time the recovery

from the squat position and the thrusting phase of the jerk, otherwise the

bar will act against him/her and the lift can easily be lost. Then, once the

jerk is over, the bar continues to oscillate and a successful jerk can easily

be lost if the lifter fails to hold the bar overhead in the correct position

until most of the oscillation has been damped out. Similarly, the

powerlifter can lose any squat in which the oscillation becomes unmanageable

during the recovery from the lowest position.>

** Last December 3 Ed Coan passed his 3rd squat attempt after a

successful 2nd lift of 992 due to a " whippy " bar. That cost him his chance to

become the first person to total 2500 lbs. Ironically, accomplished

that incredible(comparable to breaking the 4 minute mile or Babe Ruth's home run

record) feat on the very same day in a different meet.

Mel Siff:

<Finally, this oscillation issue is a vital one in the choice of a training

and competition bar. The powerlifting bar is stiffer than the Olympic

lifting bar because the loads used are heavier and a 'springier' bar would

make life very difficult for powerlifters in the squat and bench press,

though in the deadlift, the starting upward deflection with a heavier load

means that the lifter pulls the bar over a somewhat smaller distance.

Conversely, the 'deadness' of a powerlifting bar makes the snatch and

clean-and-jerk very difficult for the Olympic lifter who is used to

exploiting the springiness and elastic energy of the bar to pull or push it

overhead.

So, when you are serious about buying a training bar, make very sure you

understand exactly what your training and competitive needs are. By the way,

marked oscillation with heavier loads can even lead to injury, so make very

sure that you learn how to control the dynamic action of a bar - it is not

just the load, sets or reps which count in training effectiveness and safety,

but also how the bar and the equipment behaves under different conditions.

Not knowing how to use a lifting bar competently is almost as bad as not

knowing how to use the pole properly in pole vaulting, the oars in rowing or

the diving board in diving.

These are things that they never teach in personal training schools;

nonetheless, they are very important if you presume to work effectively with

serious athletes or competitive lifters.>

Please sign all letters with name and city where you live! MCS