European education was: Wal-mart

[Guest guest]

I'll run that by my gazillion German relatives and friends! LOL. De

facto and de jure are worlds apart in any arena. This piece of

information reminds me of the U.S. law on the books about

the " missionary position " . Yeah, right. ROFLO. By the way, all my

European cousins have college degrees.... for free. That's a perk

that has only recently changed. And they are very successful at what

they do in their well-paying jobs. I also don't question the quality

of their education, as they repeatedly show me up in any subject

matter. Particularly geography. They can name every state in the

U.S. (along with every country in the world) on a blank map. Most

Americans cannot even tell you what states border their own!There are

two sides to this coin, and the truth lies a lot further to center

than what you're depicting.

Dani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> I don't have any specifics about German Waldorf schools and how

well they

> are doing, but here is some additional background about the German

school

> education:

[Guest guest]

> By the way, all my

> European cousins have college degrees.... for free.

There is no such thing as a 'free' education. What you are saying is

that your cousins were educated at taxpayer expense.

> I also don't question the quality

> of their education, as they repeatedly show me up in any subject

> matter.

I didn't realize that showing up Dani was the definition of receiving

a good education. Cherry picking German education anecdotes against a

caricature of American education doesn't really make much of a point.

> There are

> two sides to this coin, and the truth lies a lot further to center

> than what you're depicting.

I'm interested in what the other side of the coin looks like to you.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

> By the way, all my

> European cousins have college degrees.... for free.

There is no such thing as a 'free' education. What you are saying is

that your cousins were educated at taxpayer expense.

> I also don't question the quality

> of their education, as they repeatedly show me up in any subject

> matter.

I didn't realize that showing up Dani was the definition of receiving

a good education. Cherry picking German education anecdotes against a

caricature of American education doesn't really make much of a point.

> There are

> two sides to this coin, and the truth lies a lot further to center

> than what you're depicting.

I'm interested in what the other side of the coin looks like to you.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

Yes, of course not.... THEY are in fact paying for it, as taxpayers...

and a month or more of vacation amongst other " benefits. " Including

rather generous retirement. (Which turns out to be not very

sustainable but that's another issue entirely.) This all Germans pay

for in the way of taxes. And they pay quite a high tax for it all. Of

course, Americans also pay, don't they? The question is, are you

reaping the benefits you would like for your taxes? I don't think

there is any question that there is a wider divide between classes in

the U.S. Of course, that's also one of the " benefits " of all the

unregimented freedoms we have in America, right? The rich get richer,

the poor get poorer... and where do all the taxes go? Well, right now

we know where billions are going. Certainly not to health care or to

education. I'll, however, refrain from making any further comments for

fear they'll be more political than food-related.

Dani

> There is no such thing as a 'free' education. What you are saying is

> that your cousins were educated at taxpayer expense.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, of course not.... THEY are in fact paying for it, as taxpayers...

and a month or more of vacation amongst other " benefits. " Including

rather generous retirement. (Which turns out to be not very

sustainable but that's another issue entirely.) This all Germans pay

for in the way of taxes. And they pay quite a high tax for it all. Of

course, Americans also pay, don't they? The question is, are you

reaping the benefits you would like for your taxes? I don't think

there is any question that there is a wider divide between classes in

the U.S. Of course, that's also one of the " benefits " of all the

unregimented freedoms we have in America, right? The rich get richer,

the poor get poorer... and where do all the taxes go? Well, right now

we know where billions are going. Certainly not to health care or to

education. I'll, however, refrain from making any further comments for

fear they'll be more political than food-related.

Dani

> There is no such thing as a 'free' education. What you are saying is

> that your cousins were educated at taxpayer expense.

>

[Guest guest]

> and a month or more of vacation amongst other " benefits. "

A month of vacation is not that unusual in this country.

> Including rather generous retirement. (Which turns out to be not

very sustainable but that's another issue entirely.)

Don't have to go to Germany to get publicly funded unsustainable

retirement :-).

> course, Americans also pay, don't they? The question is, are you

> reaping the benefits you would like for your taxes?

I don't think in terms of receiving benefits for my taxes. If

anything I'd like to see less taxation, since in general I don't

believe that the tax money taken from me is spent very wisely.

> I don't think

> there is any question that there is a wider divide between classes

in the U.S.

Not as obvious to me as to you. Nor am I convinced that this is

anything to be concerned about.

Of course, that's also one of the " benefits " of all the

> unregimented freedoms we have in America, right?

America was founded on ideals that are a lot closer to unregimented

freedom than what we currently have.

> and where do all the taxes go? Well, right now

> we know where billions are going. Certainly not to health care or

to education.

Well, billions are going to both health care and education. I believe

we agree that the results are poor for what the programs cost.

> I'll, however, refrain from making any further comments for

> fear they'll be more political than food-related.

Fair enough. It's been an interesting discussion, even if not

entirely on topic.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

> and a month or more of vacation amongst other " benefits. "

A month of vacation is not that unusual in this country.

> Including rather generous retirement. (Which turns out to be not

very sustainable but that's another issue entirely.)

Don't have to go to Germany to get publicly funded unsustainable

retirement :-).

> course, Americans also pay, don't they? The question is, are you

> reaping the benefits you would like for your taxes?

I don't think in terms of receiving benefits for my taxes. If

anything I'd like to see less taxation, since in general I don't

believe that the tax money taken from me is spent very wisely.

> I don't think

> there is any question that there is a wider divide between classes

in the U.S.

Not as obvious to me as to you. Nor am I convinced that this is

anything to be concerned about.

Of course, that's also one of the " benefits " of all the

> unregimented freedoms we have in America, right?

America was founded on ideals that are a lot closer to unregimented

freedom than what we currently have.

> and where do all the taxes go? Well, right now

> we know where billions are going. Certainly not to health care or

to education.

Well, billions are going to both health care and education. I believe

we agree that the results are poor for what the programs cost.

> I'll, however, refrain from making any further comments for

> fear they'll be more political than food-related.

Fair enough. It's been an interesting discussion, even if not

entirely on topic.

~Greg

[Guest guest]

And then there are the self-employed like me who get to work half

days.... and we get to pick WHICH 12 hours per day we work! LOL.

On the subject of political ideals, I'm waiting to get a book

entitled, What Would Jefferson Do? by Thom Hartmann. I think a shift

back to those original ideals would do everyone including our farmers

a world of good. Don't we all?

Dani

> > and a month or more of vacation amongst other " benefits. "

>

> A month of vacation is not that unusual in this country.